Dragonfire Inspiration Vs Inspire Courage:What are the Pros and Cons of both?

[Masakan]

Tell me Please I'm trying to decide if I should stick with it or do something else?

[Eldest]

What's preventing you from doing both? Lingering Song is a good feat for that.

[Masakan]

What's preventing you from doing both? Lingering Song is a good feat for that.

Trying to avoid overt cheese and becoming a target for the dm, because even if its fire damage, having 8d6+8 dies as well as a +8 to attack. Might freak your DM out a bit....besides I just don't have the feat slots for that and I'm dead set on using many of them for Snowflake wardance.

(Don't even bother telling me it's a trap, I'm dead set on using it.)

[Red Fel]

Well, let's assume that you can only choose one. (This assumption, as Eldest notes, is not necessarily true, but let's assume.)

Let's look at the heart of each one. First, Inspire Courage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireCourage) gives you and your allies +X on saves against charm and fear, +X to attack, and +X to damage. Dragonfire Inspiration drops the +X to attack, and changes the damage to +Xd6 of an energy type based on your heritage.

At lower levels, that +X to attack is valuable, and yet too small to mean enough. By the time it's +3, you're level 14, and anyone in melee has assorted bonuses to hit; it won't help a lot. Bonuses to attack suffer diminishing returns; bonuses to damage are always valuable.

So, wait, that means DFI wins, right? Well, it depends. If your heritage is Fire, for example, the boost won't be as useful, given how commonly fire is resisted. By contrast, sonic would be almost universally good. That said, outside of fire-resistant opponents, you're getting a healthy damage boost, and keep in mind that energy damage bypasses DR. At level 20, you're getting +4d6 energy damage, which is an average of 14 additional damage per hit. That's not bad.

The thing to remember, however, is that Inspire Courage is free. It's a default ability. DFI requires a precious feat slot, as well as the Dragonblood subtype. So there is a bit of a cost.

But I'd go with DFI.

[Masakan]

Well, let's assume that you can only choose one. (This assumption, as Eldest notes, is not necessarily true, but let's assume.)

Let's look at the heart of each one. First, Inspire Courage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireCourage) gives you and your allies +X on saves against charm and fear, +X to attack, and +X to damage. Dragonfire Inspiration drops the +X to attack, and changes the damage to +Xd6 of an energy type based on your heritage.

At lower levels, that +X to attack is valuable, and yet too small to mean enough. By the time it's +3, you're level 14, and anyone in melee has assorted bonuses to hit; it won't help a lot. Bonuses to attack suffer diminishing returns; bonuses to damage are always valuable.

So, wait, that means DFI wins, right? Well, it depends. If your heritage is Fire, for example, the boost won't be as useful, given how commonly fire is resisted. By contrast, sonic would be almost universally good. That said, outside of fire-resistant opponents, you're getting a healthy damage boost, and keep in mind that energy damage bypasses DR. At level 20, you're getting +4d6 energy damage, which is an average of 14 additional damage per hit. That's not bad.

The thing to remember, however, is that Inspire Courage is free. It's a default ability. DFI requires a precious feat slot, as well as the Dragonblood subtype. So there is a bit of a cost.

But I'd go with DFI.

Now here's the thing. Since silverbrow humans are descended from silver dragons...does that automatically mean they can make the extra damage Ice? Or would that be too bull****?

[Red Fel]

Now here's the thing. Since silverbrow humans are descended from silver dragons...does that automatically mean they can make the extra damage Ice? Or would that be too bull****?

As DM, I'd allow it. By RAW, however, you deal fire damage unless you are (1) either a half-dragon or have the Draconic Heritage feat, and (2) your parent/feat specifies one of the listed energy types. So a Silverbrow Human, despite being descended from dragons with ice breath, causes fire damage.

But talk to your DM, because it totally should work that way.

[Bronk]

Trying to avoid overt cheese and becoming a target for the dm, because even if its fire damage, having 8d6+8 dies as well as a +8 to attack. Might freak your DM out a bit....

If you're that worried about it, talk to your DM first. DFI is an option, not the default option, but make sure he or she knows you want to use it. After all, it already looks like you're boosting your inspire courage bonus!

Inspire courage is a static morale bonus to both attack and damage. On the other hand, with DFI you only get 1d6 energy damage per point of inspire, there's no static bonus at the end, as you have listed.

I'd also point out that both the inspire courage bonus and the DFI bonus affects every successful melee attack from all of your allies, which includes you, your PC buddies, their familiars, animal companions, cohorts, wild cohorts, hanger's on, friendly NPCs, and so on. It can add up fast, so I'd suggest being up front about that with the DM.

[Hiro Quester]

At lower level, IC is great. Help your allies hit their targets. It also helps at higher levels when party members get iterative attacks. That third attack of +11/+6/+1 is unlikely to hit. Adding your IC bonus can make a big difference to those extra attacks.

At higher levels, the boost to damage on every attack is amazing, especially when many of your party members are making several attacks per round. Party members with TWF will totally love DFI. (Buy a wand of heroics to give them use of TWF regularly.)

I played a bard recently, with Lingering song and DFI, I was using both IC and DFI pretty regularly. The combo is totally awesome.

But if I had just one, I'd take IC. It's free as Red Fel pointed out. And the bonus to hit (and damage) is probably more crucial to an encounter than dealing major damage (esp if it's fire, which many monsters resist). Party members should have their own ways of dealing decent damage; they will thank you for making it easier for them to deal that damage.

Plus IC rather than DFI gives the DM less incentive to jack up the HP on the monsters you face.

[Masakan]

If you're that worried about it, talk to your DM first. DFI is an option, not the default option, but make sure he or she knows you want to use it. After all, it already looks like you're boosting your inspire courage bonus!

Inspire courage is a static morale bonus to both attack and damage. On the other hand, with DFI you only get 1d6 energy damage per point of inspire, there's no static bonus at the end, as you have listed.

I'd also point out that both the inspire courage bonus and the DFI bonus affects every successful melee attack from all of your allies, which includes you, your PC buddies, their familiars, animal companions, cohorts, wild cohorts, hanger's on, friendly NPCs, and so on. It can add up fast, so I'd suggest being up front about that with the DM.

Exactly. I know how ridiculous It can get and that's precisely why I'm hesitant to take it
All I would need is Song of the Heart, Vest of Legends, Badge of Valor, Use inspiration Boost and finally Amp it up with words of creation, and I effectively have 10d6 points of extra pain on pretty much everyone that isn't an enemy.
And fire damage or not that's kinda ridiculous and can easily make me a target.

[Gabrosin]

DFI is the superior choice, unless you're in a game where using DFI is going to cause problems for the DM.

In the last campaign I ran I banned Words of Creation and DFI as unbalancing (along with a host of other stuff). Especially if the party knows it's coming... they can focus their build resources on higher attack bonuses and making more attacks, since you're backstopping them on the damage output. It's true that energy immunities eventually come into play, especially if the damage remains fire-based, but you can work around that in a number of ways.

[Sliver]

At lower levels, that +X to attack is valuable, and yet too small to mean enough. By the time it's +3, you're level 14, and anyone in melee has assorted bonuses to hit; it won't help a lot. Bonuses to attack suffer diminishing returns; bonuses to damage are always valuable.

With a bit of investment, you can get +3 at level 3, with Inspirational Boost and Badge of Valor.

Of course, it translates into 3d6 elemental damage added at level 3, for an average of 10.5 extra...

[Flickerdart]

Don't forget the metagame consequences - rolling 3 extra dice is measurably more fun than checking off a static bonus, even in virtual tabletops, because having the potential of a great gain (rolling many sixes) is exciting. On the other hand, rolling extra dice also slows the game down. If you're playing in meatspace and have many party members (or players who don't know the rules well and slow down combat) then Inspire Courage is a much better idea.

[Gullintanni]

Also worth noting is that the +X to attack from Inspire Courage means your smashy types can Power Attack that much harder while maintaining their accuracy, and if any of your friends are on the TWF bandwagon, IC can easily be the deciding factor in whether or not a string of near misses becomes a string of hits.

[Masakan]

Also worth noting is that the +X to attack from Inspire Courage means your smashy types can Power Attack that much harder while maintaining their accuracy, and if any of your friends are on the TWF bandwagon, IC can easily be the deciding factor in whether or not a string of near misses becomes a string of hits.

So Reg Inspire Courage for more Garrenteed Output, and DFI for more risky damage......Truth Be told, if a DM wouldn't allow Silverbrows to have Ice Damage...Then It Might Be more worth it to just go with Regular IC and in turn Drop DFI altogether.

[Stegyre]

esorcher is playing a DFI bard granting acid damage in our Age of Worms campaign. I've got a character with trample and a high move, and I positively love all the extra damage we get out of the combination.