will saves

[True believer]

hello :D


The situation.

I wan inside an in with my party and because we have a bounty on our heads i choose not to take any chances.
So i caste a silent,still detect magic: nothing
Then i proceed into casting a silent, still detect thoughts
All costumers failed the saving throw expect one. that person then attacked me :S
My DM argued that if a character succeeds a will save , he has knowledge of the "attack in his mind" and the person responsible for it.

Since that makes no sense to me i am asking your opinion. Is my DM right ???

[AvatarVecna]

By RAW? No, that's bull****. By the rules, you don't even necessarily know you had to make a Will save. I'm sure there's a way to know if you're targeted by a spell like that, but it's not the default. That said, if your DM has made that a houserule, you can argue it, but if they don't want to budge, you either have to live with it or leave.

If you decide to live with it, though, make sure to call him on it if he ever breaks that rule himself.

[Geddy2112]

"A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells."

At least in pathfinder...

[noob]

Well it is true since the GM ruled so(even if the manuals said the opposite it is pretty much an advantage for the players and so keep that great gift this ruling made by the GM is in your favor for many occasions because you see npcs often really like casting mental spells on you)

[erok0809]

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

Your DM is kind of right, in that he would feel a hostile force or a tingle, and would know a spell was cast on him and it didn't work. However, unless you were the only option for a spell to come from, he shouldn't have known it came from you.

Edit: Swordsage'd.

[Brova]

On a semi-related note, can you actively tell if a spell someone casts on you is Will negates [Harmless] versus Will negates?

[Surpriser]

On a semi-related note, can you actively tell if a spell someone casts on you is Will negates [Harmless] versus Will negates?
You can, by making an appropriate Spellcraft check (DC 15+spell level if you can see/hear somatic/verbal components or DC 25+spell level after rolling the save).

For the OP's question:
The one guy who succeeded on their saving throw feels that a spell was cast on them (and failed). They can then try to identify the spell (but not the caster, as there where no visible signs of the casting) with a DC 27 Spellcraft check.
Of course, there might be other ways of identifying both the spell ("Hey guys, that dude likes to wear pink underw...I shouldn't have said that!") or the caster (the guy who just entered through the door is a pretty obvious suspect)

[Psyren]

What were you wearing? The guy in a dress covered in moons and stars and holding a staff could be a pretty obvious suspect, not to mention miscellaneous black mage odors.