"Double all your movement" with scaling flight speed?

[SangoProduction]

If an ability said to "double the speed of all your forms of movement" [and that's it, no further clarification], and your fly speed was equal to 2x your ground speed, which one takes precedence? [Let's take Half-Fey for example, with the fly speed]

So, base line, 30 ft land = 60 ft fly.

If they both stack, that means 60 ft land = 240 ft fly.

If however, your fly speed is "always" 2x your ground speed, then the multiplier would not apply to it, right, so it would be 60 ft = 120 ft fly.

I don't know which one would happen. Do any of you?

[JDL]

What's the source of the bonus movement?

For example, if it was a spell, the rules for stacking spells would apply, specifically if it was a typed bonus such as enhancement. For example, Expeditious Retreat and Haste both don't stack, since they both provide an enhancement bonus to land movement speed.

[SangoProduction]

What's the source of the bonus movement?

For example, if it was a spell, the rules for stacking spells would apply, specifically if it was a typed bonus such as enhancement. For example, Expeditious Retreat and Haste both don't stack, since they both provide an enhancement bonus to land movement speed.

The source of the Double Movement is a homebrew class. It's not a bonus, it just says to double your movement speeds.

As far as I can tell, scaling fly speed always scales based on your land speed, and then can have bonuses applied. So, I guess it can also be multiplied. hmm.. ok.

[JDL]

If it's a homebrew class, slap an enhancement type bonus on it and call it a day. Boom, can't benefit from stacking extra bonuses such as Haste on top of the existing bonus so it stops ridiculous bonus shenanigans with it.

[Crake]

If an ability said to "double the speed of all your forms of movement" [and that's it, no further clarification], and your fly speed was equal to 2x your ground speed, which one takes precedence? [Let's take Half-Fey for example, with the fly speed]

So, base line, 30 ft land = 60 ft fly.

If they both stack, that means 60 ft land = 240 ft fly.

If however, your fly speed is "always" 2x your ground speed, then the multiplier would not apply to it, right, so it would be 60 ft = 120 ft fly.

I don't know which one would happen. Do any of you?

I'm afraid that's not how speeds gained from templates work.

"[the creature] gains a fly speed equal to twice the base creature's fastest mode of movement, with good maneuverability". This gives the creature a movement speed based on the creature's fastest movement speed. Once that speed is set, the template does not continue to change it's movement speed, as it has already been set. If it worked as you described, then it would go into an infinite recurring loop where it's flight speed is now it's fastest mode of movement, and it doubles that infinitely.

As an example, say you give a human the half fey template. Humans have a 30ft land movement. Half fey woud give them a flight speed equal to twice their land speed, so 2*30, for a 60ft fly speed. That's it. Your flight speed is 60ft. It's not "twice your land speed", it's just 60ft. Any changes to your land speed after this point do not change the flight speed any more.

As an inherited template, the only way you could increase that flight speed would be to put on other inherited templates BEFORE it, such as dark, or shadow templates, which increase your speed. For example, a Human with the Dark, then Shadow, then Half fey templates would have ((30+10[dark))*1.5[shadow])*2[half fey] flight speed, for a total of 120ft fly.

But yeah, basically, once your flight speed is set from these templates, that's it, it doesn't change when external factors change your other speeds that they were initially determined by.

[Curmudgeon]

You will always need DM adjudication of any custom ability.

If you instead got flight at 2x land speed with Feathered Wings graft (Fiend Folio), then doubling your land speed would also double your flight speed. 30' land doubled to 60' land would mean 120' fly.

[SangoProduction]

I'm afraid that's not how speeds gained from templates work.

"[the creature] gains a fly speed equal to twice the base creature's fastest mode of movement, with good maneuverability". This gives the creature a movement speed based on the creature's fastest movement speed. Once that speed is set, the template does not continue to change it's movement speed, as it has already been set. If it worked as you described, then it would go into an infinite recurring loop where it's flight speed is now it's fastest mode of movement, and it doubles that infinitely.

As an example, say you give a human the half fey template. Humans have a 30ft land movement. Half fey woud give them a flight speed equal to twice their land speed, so 2*30, for a 60ft fly speed. That's it. Your flight speed is 60ft. It's not "twice your land speed", it's just 60ft. Any changes to your land speed after this point do not change the flight speed any more.

As an inherited template, the only way you could increase that flight speed would be to put on other inherited templates BEFORE it, such as dark, or shadow templates, which increase your speed. For example, a Human with the Dark, then Shadow, then Half fey templates would have ((30+10[dark))*1.5[shadow])*2[half fey] flight speed, for a total of 120ft fly.

But yeah, basically, once your flight speed is set from these templates, that's it, it doesn't change when external factors change your other speeds that they were initially determined by.

Ah, ok thanks

[Crake]

You will always need DM adjudication of any custom ability.

If you instead got flight at 2x land speed with Feathered Wings graft (Fiend Folio), then doubling your land speed would also double your flight speed. 30' land doubled to 60' land would mean 120' fly.

It's worth noting that feathered wings grant twice your "normal" land speed, so unless the ability is a persistent one, setting your land speed to a different "normal", then it wouldn't work for feathered wings.

[Jowgen]

I would suggest sticking to the standard mulitplication-stacking rules. The two doublings of the base-speed becomes one trippling. So, Land 60, Fly 180. I think it's the least screwy way to handle it.

[Morcleon]

I would suggest sticking to the standard mulitplication-stacking rules. The two doublings of the base-speed becomes one trippling. So, Land 60, Fly 180. I think it's the least screwy way to handle it.

Except speed is a real world value and thus follows normal multiplication (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#multiplying), with two x2 multipliers becoming x4.

[SangoProduction]

It's worth noting that feathered wings grant twice your "normal" land speed, so unless the ability is a persistent one, setting your land speed to a different "normal", then it wouldn't work for feathered wings.

Ah, ok. So, for persistent effects that actually change your move speed, like fleet of foot, or monk levels, or the similar DO change fly speed? That's what it is.