What do you think about the Adventurer's League rules?

[dropbear8mybaby]

I find that discussion on the FB page and WotC site tends to get censored a lot to the point where any sort of meaningful discussion is ruined. The reddit AL sub is like a barren wasteland which leaves me few avenues to have any kind of decent discussion about AL matters.

So I thought I'd try here.

Personally I think the admin and volunteers do a mostly decent job. I have a few gripes about censorship, for one thing, but mainly my issues centre around their custom rules for AL, namely faction benefits and limiting starting equipment and restricting character name changes.

[MadGrady]

I had similar concerns, but then I remembered that this was a game designed orignally to be played at home with friends, around a dining room table. To try to take that experience and exactly replicate it in a public forum, where you might never have a consistent group, people you might also not normally play with, and try to cover all bases to make sure it is as fair and equal across the board, is just impossible.

It's also the main reason I stopped playing AL games - I prefer the freedom found in the original design of the game, vs a public style play.

I'm not saying AL was bad, I had some great times playing, and DMing those expeditions. My preference though was to move back to strictly home games.

I also come from a background of playing Pathfinder Society, so the name thing wasn't that big a deal - it made sense to me, since PFS was such a more paperwork/recording heavy system vs 5e AL games.

The good news is that they changed up the rules for starting equipment for the upcomming AL season, so I think WoTC heard the concerns of its players and listened.

[dropbear8mybaby]

The good news is that they changed up the rules for starting equipment for the upcomming AL season, so I think WoTC heard the concerns of its players and listened.

Pretty sure they didn't.

[Joe the Rat]

I've had limited play time in AL, but I haven't run into problems. I am interested to hear what issues people are running into (forewarned is forearmed, and such).

I think the name change limit is there in part because it is the ONLY thing that will be constant from level 1, given the generous "rebuild before 4" options. I am curious why you're unhappy with it.


The good news is that they changed up the rules for starting equipment for the upcomming AL season, so I think WoTC heard the concerns of its players and listened.

What has changed? My version of the Player's Guide for season 3 still has the "class & background" starting equipment approach.

[JAL_1138]

The name change bit is annoying if you're like me and terrible/wishy-washy at naming characters. Also annoying if you rebuild as a different race and the name no longer fits.

...I really don't see the gripe about starting equipment. After a few sessions you'll have enough gold you can buy anything you'd need short of fullplate. It may be mildly annoying not to start with something but it really only takes a couple of sessions to get there. For that matter you usually have enough starting gold to pick up an extra weapon. Am I missing something?

[Joe the Rat]

There are the occasional useless weapon or insufficient armor situations. Mountain Dwarf wizards can use their starting gold to get hide armor, or some dwarf-weapons. Not both. Gnome and Halfling rangers start with oversized bows and not enough outrageous fortune (gold) to buy something besides slings and arrows(darts) as a substitute. You can get what you need quickly, but it's nice to be able to have conceptually core equipment from the get-go.

[Khaelo]

No summoning blink dogs. :smallfrown:

The "order of operations" approach to sources of summoned critters is confusing and limiting. I understand that pixies are a problem, but they've thrown out a bunch of babies with that bathwater. Blink dogs in particular are in Appendix A of the Monster Manual, which AL limits to "beasts only" for no apparent reason. It's disappointing. As a dog person, I wanted my druid to befriend a pack of intelligent lawful good dogs.

In other words, I'm basically happy with Adventure League since my problems with it are very minor. :smallbiggrin: While I'd prefer a home game, this works fine.

[Daehron]

When I run my AL games, if a new character wants to swap a similarly priced item out (chain shirt vs chain mail for their elven knowledge cleric for example) i have no problem with it. They do not get any rebates if they swap a less expensive item out for the pricier one in the background etc though. That solves a number of the "halfling with a useless long bow" issues.

If you really want to cherry pick your gear, then make a season one character. You get max gold for your class and can buy whatever you'd like.

You just can't use the spells / background options from the later seasons (unless you are a wizard and find the scrolls). Given the meh-ness of the background options, and the 'they're alright but not all that'-ness of the EE spells, it's not that big of a deal.

Hardly catastrophic. The most annoying thing is the overly complicated summoning situation. I see both sides. But as a DM with a very low tolerance for the stupid cheesey tactics of a fair number of players, I appreciate the ability to say "Ya, no." But then, I am always of the interpretation that the player says "I summon 8 1/4CR creatures" and I tell them what they get.

The universe is not their plaything.

It's mine. <insert evil laugh here>


There are the occasional useless weapon or insufficient armor situations. Mountain Dwarf wizards can use their starting gold to get hide armor, or some dwarf-weapons. Not both. Gnome and Halfling rangers start with oversized bows and not enough outrageous fortune (gold) to buy something besides slings and arrows(darts) as a substitute. You can get what you need quickly, but it's nice to be able to have conceptually core equipment from the get-go.

[dropbear8mybaby]

I am curious why you're unhappy with it.
I tend to take three or four goes at a character before I'm happy with it and along with a change, usually comes a name change. I've started female characters only to end up making them male, wizards turned into fighters, etc. It's an annoying restriction that seems pointless. I mean if you're allowed to change the CLASS and the SEX and the RACE and even the freaking stats, why restrict the name?


...I really don't see the gripe about starting equipment.
It's pointless and punitive.

Why restrict it at all? The AL's justification has been because it's confusing to new players. That's just ridiculous given that new players can easily just use the starting equipment as dictated to them. It's an arbitrary, poorly considered restriction that only ends up serving one purpose: punishing those who want the option to start with gold instead of ill-suited equipment choices.

Much like the naming restriction, I despise decisions that are made to curtail something when that something isn't an actual problem. It smacks of making a change or a rule solely because they can, not because it's a good idea. It's like, "Here's my power, look, LOOK AT IT! I WIELD IT! I AM POWERFUL!"

Pointless, ill-conceived restrictions piss me off.

[MadGrady]

What has changed? My version of the Player's Guide for season 3 still has the "class & background" starting equipment approach.

AFG at the moment, but I believe they made the change that if you rebuild your character prior to level 5, then you can take the starting equipment of your new build (previously you had to keep all old equipment from original build).

Perhaps I misunderstood the gripe?

[coredump]

When I run my AL games, if a new character wants to swap a similarly priced item out (chain shirt vs chain mail for their elven knowledge cleric for example) i have no problem with it. I think most DMs are pretty easy going about it, as long as you are not trying to game the system. Gold just isn't that big of a deal, especially when talking about 5-10 gp.


If you really want to cherry pick your gear, then make a season one character. You get max gold for your class and can buy whatever you'd like. This doesn't actually work. As of now the ALPG v.3 is the rules you use, and those rules allow you to use the RoD storyline, it also says you use starting equipment.



I tend to take three or four goes at a character before I'm happy with it and along with a change, usually comes a name change. I've started female characters only to end up making them male, wizards turned into fighters, etc. It's an annoying restriction that seems pointless. I mean if you're allowed to change the CLASS and the SEX and the RACE and even the freaking stats, why restrict the name? {scrubbed}



It's pointless and punitive. {scrubbed}


Why restrict it at all? The AL's justification has been because it's confusing to new players. That's just ridiculous given that new players can easily just use the starting equipment as dictated to them. It's an arbitrary, poorly considered restriction that only ends up serving one purpose: punishing those who want the option to start with gold instead of ill-suited equipment choices.Because it *is* easier to just pick the provided starting equipment rather than go through the *pages* of options in Ch 5 and try and decide how many torches and crowbars to buy.
So they erred on the side of simplicity, so folks can take 15 seconds instead of 20 minutes getting their gear.

Now, if some experienced person really wants something esoteric, they are experienced enough to understand how to sell and buy to get what they want. It is very rare to not be able to get the starting gear you want.

And...they also (likely) realize that gold is pretty irrelevant in 5E, and by the end of a single expedition you will have more than enough gold to buy whatever gear you could have possibly gotten.

{scrubbed}




Much like the naming restriction, I despise decisions that are made to curtail something when that something isn't an actual problem. It smacks of making a change or a rule solely because they can, not because it's a good idea. It's like, "Here's my power, look, LOOK AT IT! I WIELD IT! I AM POWERFUL!"

Pointless, ill-conceived restrictions piss me off.{scrubbed}

[Vogonjeltz]

When I run my AL games, if a new character wants to swap a similarly priced item out (chain shirt vs chain mail for their elven knowledge cleric for example) i have no problem with it. They do not get any rebates if they swap a less expensive item out for the pricier one in the background etc though. That solves a number of the "halfling with a useless long bow" issues.

If you really want to cherry pick your gear, then make a season one character. You get max gold for your class and can buy whatever you'd like.

You just can't use the spells / background options from the later seasons (unless you are a wizard and find the scrolls). Given the meh-ness of the background options, and the 'they're alright but not all that'-ness of the EE spells, it's not that big of a deal.

Hardly catastrophic. The most annoying thing is the overly complicated summoning situation. I see both sides. But as a DM with a very low tolerance for the stupid cheesey tactics of a fair number of players, I appreciate the ability to say "Ya, no." But then, I am always of the interpretation that the player says "I summon 8 1/4CR creatures" and I tell them what they get.

The universe is not their plaything.

It's mine. <insert evil laugh here>

I wasn't aware that there was so much latitude involved in AL rules.

Also, regarding summons, the text says the player picks an option, in no case does the player get to select the specific creature(s) that show up. So that's not so much interpretation as it is using the spell as written.

[dropbear8mybaby]

{scrubbed}

[Khaelo]

Also, regarding summons, the text says the player picks an option, in no case does the player get to select the specific creature(s) that show up. So that's not so much interpretation as it is using the spell as written.
It was enough a matter of interpretation that Sage Advice had to clear it up. :smallsmile: With Adventure League Conjure Woodland Beings and Conjure Minor Elementals, though, nobody gets to select. Conjure Woodland Beings summons eight sprites, and Conjure Minor Elementals summons a gargoyle. Those are the only legal choices. (citation (http://dndadventurersleague.org/sage/index.php?title=Frequently_Asked_Questions_(FAQ)#W hat_creatures_are_available_for_use_in_various_con juring_spells.3F)) If you want eight tiny elementals or a few substantial fey, you're out of luck. Also, my character won't summon an evil creature, so the gargoyle is out.

My character's solution is to prepare Conjure Animals and a deck of beast cards for the DM to peruse. It's not like druids lack choices in general.

[dropbear8mybaby]

Conjure Woodland Beings summons eight sprites, and Conjure Minor Elementals summons a gargoyle.

I found this super annoying. It turns Conjure Minor Elementals, one of the most powerful spells in the game, into a worthless party trick.

[Psikerlord]

If you're playing AL, I think you have to be thankful you're playing at all, and work towards making your AL group your home group....

As for the conjure spells, imo the best fix would have been the player chooses what is summoned, but delete the part about obeying orders. So you get auto friendly summons, who will tend to protect and help you, but you might have to negotiate for specific help (like 8 x pixies casting invisibility on your whole party, etc).

Interesting that AL has super nerfed choices with respect to conjure woodland beings and conjure minor elemental. Suggests the spells are broken as is.