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Thunder_Ranger
2007-05-03, 07:23 PM
Okay, last time it was River, now it's Mal. Quoting Firefly seemed to work last time so, here goes. I've got a bit of a DM problem. In the espionage-laden game that I'm going to re-start after a three month pause, most of the usual players have left, or want to change character classes. That leaves just me and the two others that I founded my campain with, which would normally be great. However, they've become such powergamers that I really need to install my own DMPC not just for fun, but to keep them in check. One is playing a trip-happy, hedonist chaos monk, the other a ninja/garrotte master. The problem is twofold, I need a character powerful enough to keep them in check, but also that fits into the story (he's a government agent {Eberron campain, King's Dark Lantern}).

So, any suggestions?

Kyace
2007-05-03, 07:36 PM
A parole officer mage maybe? Hold person just screams "Stop in the name of the law".

Macrovore
2007-05-03, 07:55 PM
or a cleric who likes casting "Sanctuary" on his party members.

tsuyoshikentsu
2007-05-03, 07:56 PM
If you think that's powergaming, you are a sad, sad man.

Put them up against a druid. Entangle will kill them.

Aximili
2007-05-03, 08:01 PM
If entagle kills a ninja and a monk, they did something wrong.

Tellah
2007-05-03, 08:02 PM
Spend fifteen minutes on the CharOp board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339). Those builds are nowhere near overpowered, unless you're houseruling pretty heavily.

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 08:03 PM
ever hear of will saves? Or how about level drain? Enervate is a funny spell

martyboy74
2007-05-03, 08:03 PM
Powergaming and "monk" or "ninja" do not go in the same sentence unless the words "dip" or "aren't used in" are involved.

tsuyoshikentsu
2007-05-03, 08:40 PM
If entagle kills a ninja and a monk, they did something wrong.

Okay, to further expand, it's not so much entangle as entangle plus halving their speed while your animal companion out-grapples them and you summon monsters and things.

illyrus
2007-05-03, 11:32 PM
I personally wouldn't insert a DMPC into the party. Instead I would have the NPCs use them for their own purposes.

You said it is an espionage-laden game. Have an NPC (calling him Johnson for now) offer a very very nice reward to the PCs (it doesn't matter what, keep it on the high end of reasonable, the reward doesn't exist so it doesn't really matter as long as the PCs believe it exists). Have them perform some job, ideally assassination of several people in a room, palace, whatever.

They go and do the deed, and Johnson informs them of the place they can pick up the reward. Johnson then informs the allies of the people they assassinated and tells them that the assassins will be at the designated spot at the designated time.

When the PCs arrive they see a chest on the ground... and they find a prepared force waiting for them that doesn't stop and ask questions, but surprise attacks them. Ideally you want the PCs to make it out alive and victorious, but make them hurt. Poisoned blades, enervation, ray of enfeeblement, cloudkills, invisible rogues, etc.

Inside they chest they find a copper piece for each of them and a note that says: "Thanks for taking care of both my problems for me, you've been great... Sincerely, Johnson"

In reality the note was never written by Johnson or even touched by him, so scrying will reveal some scribe that they might can question for some information, but if they kill him straight out they've cut all leads. Johnson can appear from time to time, sending the authorities on them when they start to do bad stuff.

The key is that Johnson is never met by the PCs. From the very beginning he uses proxies to deal with them. He could turn out to be your BBEG, one of his lackeys, or just another player in the spy game. Their hatred of him should fuel them and give them tunnel vision. Rampant slaughter won't help them here, they'll need to out-think him. Once they've done that give them their prize, kicking his ass with their characters.

Johnson could be a rogue, bard, devil, dragon, wizard, expert, whatever you want, it really doesn't matter. Any skill/spell he can't use himself he can always have a minion/ally/overlord/merc do for him.

Raum
2007-05-03, 11:57 PM
Okay, last time it was River, now it's Mal. Quoting Firefly seemed to work last time so, here goes. I've got a bit of a DM problem. In the espionage-laden game that I'm going to re-start after a three month pause, most of the usual players have left, or want to change character classes. That leaves just me and the two others that I founded my campain with, which would normally be great. However, they've become such powergamers that I really need to install my own DMPC not just for fun, but to keep them in check. One is playing a trip-happy, hedonist chaos monk, the other a ninja/garrotte master. Err, how exactly do those classes make players "powergamers"? Both are niche classes and easily countered. If anything, I'd think they'd need some extra help.


The problem is twofold, I need a character powerful enough to keep them in check, but also that fits into the story (he's a government agent {Eberron campain, King's Dark Lantern}).

So, any suggestions?Yeah, don't make a DMPC. Make a series of specialist agents who can be assigned / hired for specific jobs.

Starbuck_II
2007-05-04, 12:12 AM
A parole officer mage maybe? Hold person just screams "Stop in the name of the law".
A Mage gets infinite Hold Monster with Polymorph (Cloakers can do it every round as a standard extrordinary attack). Granted Polymorph runs out, but with a hat of disguise he'd look human and they's never know.

Toliudar
2007-05-04, 12:49 AM
A ninja and a tripping monk seem like a pretty good combo for an espionage game. I agree: instead of assigning them some sort of nanny DMPC, let them go overboard. When you feel like it's reasonable for their antics to run them afoul of someone much more powerful than them, kick their ass. Otherwise, let em be rock stars. Or Mal.

tsuyoshikentsu
2007-05-04, 01:14 AM
Have an NPC (calling him Johnson

I totally stopped reading after this because of my huge squee of "SHADOWRUN!!!"

Man, I love that game.

illyrus
2007-05-04, 03:27 AM
I totally stopped reading after this because of my huge squee of "SHADOWRUN!!!"

Man, I love that game.


Yep, it's why I picked the name.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-04, 03:37 AM
"I do believe that woman is aiming to shoot me again..."

I have three words which will solve all your problem...

"Tome of Battle"

Matthew
2007-05-04, 08:23 PM
I am not clear on the problem here. What exactly are the Player Characetrs doing that makes it necessary to insert a powerful NPC into the Party?

Thunder_Ranger
2007-05-05, 01:51 PM
:smallbiggrin:
Otherwise, let em be rock stars. Or Mal.

:smallbiggrin: Ha! Thanks for the all the help everyone, and excuse my small amout of (for lack of a better word, idiocy. And thank you so much illyrus for the Johnson idea, it got the wheels in my head spinning again.

They still can't take the sky from us.

Ivius
2007-05-05, 02:10 PM
I pretty much agree with Toliudar. The worst part of overpowered characters is that they make the rest of the party feel worthless. But since they're both about even, let em' go to town. Sometimes high powered games can be fun.