So... Hi, and help, maybe?

[DraconicVixen]

I'm awkward, I'm new - both to this forum and to 3.5. About a month ago I heard some friends starting up a D&D game. Never played before, but I was extremely excited. I always wanted to play!

Skip to now, we've played about 8-10 sessions, not totalling more than about as many hours. DM's very by the book (his style, and I'm new, so that's fine,) but seriously? He's urging us to stop after an hour of play. I've poked around, and most people play for at least three.

Now... I'm just sort of venting, but I'm not sure what to do. I have tried to talk to our DM, but being as this is an online game, I can only contact him through Skype, and he never responds. I won't call him out mid-session. That's rude IMO.

I'm also rather busted up about my stance in the game. Second session our DM remade his PC because he didn't like it. That's fine. Two sessions ago I accidentally forces out one of the other PCs and he had to remake his own (for the better +900gp. I would like to make a point of saying that no one has even made half that in our sessions so far). Now, last session our pally lost his info to a virus. He rerolled his stats for his PC; two 18s, a 16, plus he just so happened to only remember his con (16-18) stat. I don't believe this for one damn moment, especially considering this is a guy who would sit in the map template for 10-12 hours at a time waiting for us.

So as I stand, I am the only one without a reason to reform my character. I don't really want to for several reasons, but I still feel like this is rather unfair.

I also am quite useless in combat (rogue). I can do alright in RP, but I currently fail about half my checks with most stats being <=13. 17 is in dex, but that's my only 13+ stat. Even the other guy I accidentally pushed out had a roughly +1-2 increase across the board...

Am I just overreacting? Can I ask for some advice from some people? I'm loving D&D so far... But I feel useless, this game feels unfair, and I'm worried about losing interest or getting too frustrated. Last time I walked out for food because I couldn't shake my disdain for the pally...

[ComaVision]

My advice is to find another group. I saw a lot of Cons in your post and not any Pros.

[DraconicVixen]

Are you sure? This is the first group I've managed to join... I don't know that I could so readily just abandon the group.

[TheIronGolem]

Are you sure? This is the first group I've managed to join... I don't know that I could so readily just abandon the group.

No gaming is better than bad gaming.

That's a phrase you'll see often here on the Playground, and it's a lesson that too many of us still haven't learned. Being a new gamer, you have an opportunity to learn it early, and save yourself a lot of aggravation.

[DraconicVixen]

Hmm. I'll give it consideration. I think I'll wait until the completion of this quest (as it is based around my character), then part ways I suppose. I only wish I knew more people to group up with.

[ComaVision]

This forum, and others, host play by post games. Personally, I prefer playing in person. You could check local gaming shops and the like to see if there are games in your area.

Best of luck.

[Deadline]

Hmm. I'll give it consideration. I think I'll wait until the completion of this quest (as it is based around my character), then part ways I suppose. I only wish I knew more people to group up with.

Good news! There's plenty of play-by-post stuff right here in our forums! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?51-Finding-Players-%28Recruitment%29

Take a look there and see if you can find a game you like, or put up a request for a game (mention that you are new, it may be helpful). It's different than in-person or Skype games in that it is actually slower, but you may get a better experience than your current one.

I think there may also be another thread around here for finding a RL group.

[Geddy2112]

I agree...run. Take the lessons you have learned and apply them to another, better game. If you can't find one, create your own! Ask friends, or go to a local game shop and ask around. Most game stores that sell ttRPG stuff support the community and have active groups. Look on meetup.com, or post to craigslist. If you can stand them, you can even recruit from family or coworkers.

[sakuuya]

In addition to ComaVision's suggestions, I'd add Roll20 as an option if you like real-time online games and don't mind playing 'em with strangers.

[torrasque666]

Try using roll20.net

That's what my group uses and if it weren't for the fact that we're just about to hit epic level I'd extend an invite.

[Sacrieur]

I'm awkward, I'm new - both to this forum and to 3.5. About a month ago I heard some friends starting up a D&D game. Never played before, but I was extremely excited. I always wanted to play!

Skip to now, we've played about 8-10 sessions, not totalling more than about as many hours. DM's very by the book (his style, and I'm new, so that's fine,) but seriously? He's urging us to stop after an hour of play. I've poked around, and most people play for at least three.

Now... I'm just sort of venting, but I'm not sure what to do. I have tried to talk to our DM, but being as this is an online game, I can only contact him through Skype, and he never responds. I won't call him out mid-session. That's rude IMO.

I'm also rather busted up about my stance in the game. Second session our DM remade his PC because he didn't like it. That's fine. Two sessions ago I accidentally forces out one of the other PCs and he had to remake his own (for the better +900gp. I would like to make a point of saying that no one has even made half that in our sessions so far). Now, last session our pally lost his info to a virus. He rerolled his stats for his PC; two 18s, a 16, plus he just so happened to only remember his con (16-18) stat. I don't believe this for one damn moment, especially considering this is a guy who would sit in the map template for 10-12 hours at a time waiting for us.

So as I stand, I am the only one without a reason to reform my character. I don't really want to for several reasons, but I still feel like this is rather unfair.

I also am quite useless in combat (rogue). I can do alright in RP, but I currently fail about half my checks with most stats being <=13. 17 is in dex, but that's my only 13+ stat. Even the other guy I accidentally pushed out had a roughly +1-2 increase across the board...

Am I just overreacting? Can I ask for some advice from some people? I'm loving D&D so far... But I feel useless, this game feels unfair, and I'm worried about losing interest or getting too frustrated. Last time I walked out for food because I couldn't shake my disdain for the pally...

Let me assure you most games are not run this way, at least not in the extensive history of games I've played.

If you're playing online are you using roll20? If you're going to roll stats and use a point buy, then the rolls should be made publicly.

One hour sessions seems more than short. Most of the time it's an all day thing. Older groups I was in usually ran around 6 - 8 hours. The games I run go 8 - 12.

[DraconicVixen]

I have three people around the household. Trouble is finding time we aren't all working. I personally prefer in-person. Not to knock the forums! I used to RP all the time.. And do I miss it.

I just enjoy being in person do much more. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll likely leave soon. I plan on moving to the other side of the state anyways! Hopefully bigger city means more opportunities for D&D groups!


I would use quote if I knew the code for it, but I'm on a mobile... So yeah ^^' We are using Roll20 however! I'm rather enjoying it. Maybe I'll see if I can pick someone up for that too!

[LoyalPaladin]

Hello! Welcome to GitP! First, we're all a... diverse... breed of person around here, so don't worry about being awkward. Second, let me see if I can break this down.


He's urging us to stop after an hour of play. I've poked around, and most people play for at least three.
This could be your DM's preferred style, or perhaps there are time constraints?


I have tried to talk to our DM, but being as this is an online game, I can only contact him through Skype, and he never responds. I won't call him out mid-session. That's rude IMO.
This drives me bonkers. When I DM, I really prefer to be the all accessible guy. When my players need me, I plan on being there.


I'm also rather busted up about my stance in the game. Second session our DM remade his PC because he didn't like it. That's fine. Two sessions ago I accidentally forces out one of the other PCs and he had to remake his own (for the better +900gp. I would like to make a point of saying that no one has even made half that in our sessions so far).
The age old conundrum of the DMPC. Basically everyone here will tell you that DMPCs are bad. Which in 99.9% of cases is true. DMs set up the world and have a lot of power in the game. (I say a lot, because a player can leave at any time.)


Now, last session our pally lost his info to a virus. He rerolled his stats for his PC; two 18s, a 16, plus he just so happened to only remember his con (16-18) stat. I don't believe this for one damn moment, especially considering this is a guy who would sit in the map template for 10-12 hours at a time waiting for us.
Every group has one of these, I swear. If it isn't one thing it's another. We've got one who got a +2 Pariapt of Wisdom from our cleric and wrote down +8.


So as I stand, I am the only one without a reason to reform my character. I don't really want to for several reasons, but I still feel like this is rather unfair.
Definitely, but aside from talking to people individually, there isn't much to do. Are these close friends of yours?


I also am quite useless in combat (rogue).
Rogues are the skill monkey of 3.5, they can do a lot of things, but combat is definitely not their preferred role. Stealth and subterfuge should be your focus.


Am I just overreacting? Can I ask for some advice from some people?
Nah, I understand. You win some, you lose some. Even if this game doesn't work out, there are TONS of PBP games here on GitP that you could join.

[DraconicVixen]

I'll take a page from you guys. Definitely loving the active community. Most places I've posted are dead as a doornail! Very active. I think I'll stay... And find a group I can enjoy a bit better and learn more from!

One of them is a close friend, the others are his friends, so I'm not worried about them. I don't think he'll mind me leaving either. He's been getting frustrated with the timeline as well. As far as time constraints go, we usuay have about 2-3 hours before anyone needs to sleep or eat. It's usually because the DM wants to play League of Legends instead.

[Sian]

in all groups i've been in the general time have been between 6-10 hours ... with between 4-7 hours effective play as there might be need to go shopping before starting, cooking dinner and eating it (and cleaning up afterwards) and sometimes also just sitting chatting around or deciding that we'd actually want to play some boardgame of some kind.

[LoyalPaladin]

in all groups i've been in the general time have been between 6-10 hours ... with between 4-7 hours effective play as there might be need to go shopping before starting, cooking dinner and eating it (and cleaning up afterwards) and sometimes also just sitting chatting around or deciding that we'd actually want to play some boardgame of some kind.
Yeah, this seems about normal. I play every Saturday from about 5:30pm to around midnight. I host every Thursday from 4:00pm to 10:00pm. That's without the time we spend shooting the breeze and grabbing food.


It's usually because the DM wants to play League of Legends instead.
Oh yeah. I have friends like this. I swear that game is addictive. They need a Summoner's Anonymous.

[DraconicVixen]

in all groups i've been in the general time have been between 6-10 hours ... with between 4-7 hours effective play as there might be need to go shopping before starting, cooking dinner and eating it (and cleaning up afterwards) and sometimes also just sitting chatting around or deciding that we'd actually want to play some boardgame of some kind.

Definitely okay to me. That's different than our session being 15 mins of character corrections, 15 mins of DM calculations, 3-4 round of combat, and 20 mins of RP.

[Deadline]

One hour sessions seems more than short. Most of the time it's an all day thing. Older groups I was in usually ran around 6 - 8 hours. The games I run go 8 - 12.

I agree that one hour sessions are short and unusual, but sessions ranging from 6-12 hours are also unusual for me. My regular group runs a 5 hour session once a week. Since most of us have young children, we get a babysitter to watch them elsewhere in the house we play in, and we take a 30 minute break or so to get food, check up on the kids, and chat.

The norm I've seen in my area seems to be 4-5 hours once a week. YMMV.

[ComaVision]

My group tends to have 4 hour sessions, sometimes going shorter or longer depending on what people have to do that day.

[DraconicVixen]

Oh yeah. I have friends like this. I swear that game is addictive. They need a Summoner's Anonymous.

I have a lot of disdain for LoL and MMOs. Lots of people (family especially). Have blown me off or them. I'm sure the games are fun, but too many times have they taken precedence over other things.

[LoyalPaladin]

I have a lot of disdain for LoL and MMOs. Lots of people (family especially). Have blown me off or them. I'm sure the games are fun, but too many times have they taken precedence over other things.
I get you. They're fun and all, but I'm not a big fan of them overtaking someone's entire life. That said, I have both Saturdays and Thursdays taken over by D&D and my day is spent either working or on GitP, so perhaps I'm the pot calling the kettle black. At least I get to talk to these wonderful folks though.

[Telonius]

In the game I'm DMming right now, we're running 4 hour sessions, and I always feel like it's cramped for time. We're mostly in our 30s, so children and other obligations have drastically cut down on the available gaming time; otherwise I'd say 6-7 hours at a stretch would be what I'd like. One hour? I can't imagine anything useful happening in that short of a timespan, except at the very lowest levels when you don't have as many options to choose from.

[Deadline]

I have a lot of disdain for LoL and MMOs. Lots of people (family especially). Have blown me off or them. I'm sure the games are fun, but too many times have they taken precedence over other things.

I've got a similar irritation with smart phones and Facebook/Twitter/Pinterest. It's remarkable how many times I've seen a "social" gathering where most/all of the attendees are on their phones and no one speaks. </GrumpyOldManRant>

At any rate, hopefully you find a game that works for you.

[DraconicVixen]

Rundown of our last two sessions..

Session 1:
10-15 mins of settling char I accidentally pushed out. Gathered party and walked out of town. Found goblin camp. DM did 10 mins of setup and brushing up on languages, then... 3 rounds of combat and we finished.

Session 2:

4 round of combat, 15 mins of looting and loot generating, 10-20 mins of him asking us if we could stop, this is enough for the night, 5 mins of might RP, call drops, game over.

[ComaVision]

Rundown of our last two sessions..

Session 1:
10-15 mins of settling char I accidentally pushed out. Gathered party and walked out of town. Found goblin camp. DM did 10 mins of setup and brushing up on languages, then... 3 rounds of combat and we finished.

Session 2:

4 round of combat, 15 mins of looting and loot generating, 10-20 mins of him asking us if we could stop, this is enough for the night, 5 mins of might RP, call drops, game over.

It doesn't sound like the DM is interested in DMing at all either. Loot generation should be done between games if it's reasonably foreseeable.

[Red Fel]

Bottom line? Take this as a valuable learning experience, bow out with grace, and be glad it didn't go a lot worse.

Things to take away from it: 1-hours sessions are unusual. They are not the norm. I don't recall a session in which I've participated which has gone shorter than three hours, barring unexpected external issues (emergency, fire drill, etc.). Note that this doesn't necessarily apply to play-by-post (PbP) games. Unresponsive DMs are uncommon, but not rare. This is a bad sign; not abnormal, but not classy. Some DMs are like that. Most, in my experience, are not, and it is generally preferable to play with a DM who gets back to you. Courtesy is a two-way street, however; keep in mind that they might not get back to you immediately. DMPCs should give you pause. It's been mentioned; they're a yellow flag. They're not inherently bad, but they do create the potential for abuse and hurt feelings. Due to the fact that the DM runs the world, running a PC creates a conflict of interest (or the appearance thereof). The fact that he gave himself a free remake only serves as further proof of the danger of DMPCs. PC remakes happen, but these were unusual. A lot of players reroll. Rerolling with a gp bonus beyond what the party has earned so far is absurd, and should raise eyebrows. (There's something called Wealth By Level, or WBL, that tells you what kind of money you should have in order to gear up for level-appropriate challenges. Be aware of that measure.) Another PC explaining that he has nigh-optimal stats? Admittedly, he's playing a Paladin; the class suffers from Multiple Ability Dependency (MAD), and even with great stats is underwhelming, so I would almost forgive that. But as others have said, if you're rolling stats, roll them publicly. The Rogue is not a face-shredding machine. As others have said, a Rogue is a bag of tricks first, and a combatant second. Admittedly, melee combat is underwhelming compared with spell combat, but there are classes that do it better. Fortunately, this forum offers a wealth of advice on how to optimize a character around a desired result, and you can generally find people who will help you design a build start-to-finish.
Lastly, there's you. You're unhappy. And whether you're overreacting or not (and I don't think you are), unhappy is unhappy. And an unhappy player isn't going to be magically made happy; that's not how it works. Gaming should bring you joy, not frustration. If you're feeling frustrated, you should step away from the table, even if only temporarily.

As others have mentioned, this doesn't sound like the best environment for you. No gaming, at least temporarily, is better than bad gaming. Step back, figure out what you want. Then look at the PbP forums here, or on Roll20, or even find a local gaming group and see if they hold open sessions for new players. You'll find a group that works for you.

And then, I think, you'll enjoy yourself.

[LoyalPaladin]

It's remarkable how many times I've seen a "social" gathering where most/all of the attendees are on their phones and no one speaks. </GrumpyOldManRant>
This drives me mad! I'm not even an old man!


Session 1:
10-15 mins of settling char I accidentally pushed out. Gathered party and walked out of town. Found goblin camp. DM did 10 mins of setup and brushing up on languages, then... 3 rounds of combat and we finished.
The first session is usually pretty long... are you sure your DM even wants to play?


Session 2:

4 round of combat, 15 mins of looting and loot generating, 10-20 mins of him asking us if we could stop, this is enough for the night, 5 mins of might RP, call drops, game over.
Yep. This sounds like a DM who doesn't want to play.

[DraconicVixen]

As others have mentioned, this doesn't sound like the best environment for you. No gaming, at least temporarily, is better than bad gaming. Step back, figure out what you want. Then look at the PbP forums here, or on Roll20, or even find a local gaming group and see if they hold open sessions for new players. You'll find a group that works for you.

And then, I think, you'll enjoy yourself.

I think I'll poke around Roll20 after I do bow out. I love my rogue, not doubt. I think the compounding and regular fainting in battle was just one frustration on top of another. I loved my rogue! I prefer the little trickster to a beating stick. Likely my death was the result of poor tactics, but I can only improve from here!


Also- accidentally deleted my tutor, buuuuuttt...

Yes, smartphone abuse drives me insane, and that wasn't session one. That was just the first of our previous two sessions.

Our first real session was 4-5 hours with 3 of PC prep.

[Nibbens]

I'm awkward, I'm new - both to this forum and to 3.5. About a month ago I heard some friends starting up a D&D game. Never played before, but I was extremely excited. I always wanted to play!

Skip to now, we've played about 8-10 sessions, not totalling more than about as many hours. DM's very by the book (his style, and I'm new, so that's fine,) but seriously? He's urging us to stop after an hour of play. I've poked around, and most people play for at least three.

Now... I'm just sort of venting, but I'm not sure what to do. I have tried to talk to our DM, but being as this is an online game, I can only contact him through Skype, and he never responds. I won't call him out mid-session. That's rude IMO.

I'm also rather busted up about my stance in the game. Second session our DM remade his PC because he didn't like it. That's fine. Two sessions ago I accidentally forces out one of the other PCs and he had to remake his own (for the better +900gp. I would like to make a point of saying that no one has even made half that in our sessions so far). Now, last session our pally lost his info to a virus. He rerolled his stats for his PC; two 18s, a 16, plus he just so happened to only remember his con (16-18) stat. I don't believe this for one damn moment, especially considering this is a guy who would sit in the map template for 10-12 hours at a time waiting for us.

So as I stand, I am the only one without a reason to reform my character. I don't really want to for several reasons, but I still feel like this is rather unfair.

I also am quite useless in combat (rogue). I can do alright in RP, but I currently fail about half my checks with most stats being <=13. 17 is in dex, but that's my only 13+ stat. Even the other guy I accidentally pushed out had a roughly +1-2 increase across the board...

Am I just overreacting? Can I ask for some advice from some people? I'm loving D&D so far... But I feel useless, this game feels unfair, and I'm worried about losing interest or getting too frustrated. Last time I walked out for food because I couldn't shake my disdain for the pally...

First of all, hiya! Glad that you finally were able to get yourself into D&D! Welcome to the deep end of the alignment pool! :D

I too will come out against the topic of DMPCs. No bueno there. I will also recommend the "no gaming is better than bad gaming" statement. It can be hard to let go of that first group - but if you feel that your time is being wasted, trust me there are better games out there!

Lastly, while I will say that 1 hour gaming sessions are definitely not the norm and I'd be rather upset about that if that were my group (not to mention being upset at the cheater - but that's a different story), however i will actually come out in defense of shorter gaming sessions (not 1 hour, but 2-3, sure) but only if the group meets consistently and are dedicated to a once a week (or more) schedule. Anything less than that just feels like a waste of time, to me.

[DraconicVixen]

Thanks for all the advice everyone ^^ I'll look for a new group once we finish this quest. Until then. I am off to the beach! Have fun, I'll check the forum when I return!

[LoyalPaladin]

Thanks for all the advice everyone ^^ I'll look for a new group once we finish this quest. Until then. I am off to the beach! Have fun, I'll check the forum when I return!
Have a great time! Watch out for black dragons! Those things are nasty.

[Knaight]

If you're not having fun, leaving is fine. With that said, it seems like your main frustration is just that the game is so short. It wouldn't be particularly difficult to get into another game, and this one eats little enough time that it might not even cause scheduling problems. Then you can just go with multiple games at once.

I'd also add that you've likely been playing long enough to get the rules to some extent. Getting a bunch of people who already play a game together is only one way to form a gaming group, the other is just getting a bunch of friends together with enough similar hobbies that they're willing to give it a shot, teaching them the material, and then forming some sort of group with the people who enjoyed the game.

[DraconicVixen]

Okay... Am I being picky now? We started a game. We've been at it for a few hours... Good and all, but we pulled a guy from our old group. The old DM was doing things by the book, but had a system that kept people doing just... Anything.

So far in this story... That guy (whose stats I still don't believe) has murdered half thebtown we're in with no consequences in search for a watch. He's using information learned OOC to pinpoint the watch's location and repeatedly search or harass NPCs (hence half of the town being dead) with no repercussions. I plan on talking to the DM, but seriously. Am I too picky? I tried to bring it up in game, but I usually get talked over.

[Draconium]

So, let me get this straight. This fellow player is being a murderhobo and metagamer, and there have been little to no consequences so far? :smallconfused:

Yeah, you're not being picky, he doesn't sound like anyone I'd want to play with. I agree that talking to your current DM, and that player OOC, and see if you can get him to stop - unless the entire party is doing those things, and the DM is totally okay with it, that's just being a bad player.

[DraconicVixen]

I don't think the player will listen to me. I'll definitely talk to the DM, but that is extremely annoying. The DM is new, so I expect some slip ups, but come on... He killed the Taylor, almost the Sheriff, and two random people that fit a similar description to a thief. I tried to explain his PC and him are separate entities and that things he knows is not shared with his character, and he ignored me, searching a location over and over again, repeatedly failing until the DM simply gave him the check.

[Draconium]

Yeah, that sounds like a problem player. Even if he won't listen to you, you should at least try, maybe outside of your play sessions. If that doesn't work, have the DM talk to him about it. If you explain to the DM that this player's actions are making the game... less than fun for the rest of you, he should do something about it. And if that doesn't work... Well, I think the other Playgrounders would have a better opinion on what to do in that case.

[DraconicVixen]

Yeah... The DM is a good player, but as a DM, definitely lacking. The other guy I strongly dislike. I'm thinking I'm going to search GitP for some players of I can't get this back on some sturdier rails.

[LoyalPaladin]

Yeah... The DM is a good player, but as a DM, definitely lacking. The other guy I strongly dislike. I'm thinking I'm going to search GitP for some players of I can't get this back on some sturdier rails.
Let us know if you need help with a Play-By-Post! Lots of us would be willing to help out! Heck, some of us would be willing to play with you haha.

As far as the murderhobo player goes, what is his class/power level? If you're a caster, you've got hold person on your side.

[Segev]

I can't promise any games are recruiting right now, but I suggest finding an IRC forum with gaming going on to meet people and see what's offered.

The IRC server I like to hang out on is sandwich.net (you may have to go to their web site to find how to log in; a few months ago a new security protocol was initiated and it meant I needed to use a "-e" tag when logging in or it wouldn't connect). #D&D is kind-of dead, sadly, but #GURPS, despite the name, has a fair bredth of game systems represented, including D&D and PF. Generally, the people around there are pretty sane insofar as gaming goes. Or, at least, they're not bad people to game with. I suppose "sane" is a relative term on the internet. (I mean, I hang out there, so that degrades the sanity right there!)

[Warrnan]

So here's an example about playing for one hour. My DM from college and I are best friends. He moved to Dallas from our home state and for 3 years we played on our lunch break over the phone. 1 hour. Many times things came up but we played a ton over those years.

My previous normal games were usually 4- 6 hours long. 1 hour can be fun still though. Think about how much plot happens in your average 1 hour game of thrones episode.

I personally think you should set your dm free and have someone else dm if possible or join another group. I do in fact recommend in person d&d if you can ever pull it off. Life is busy for sure.

Good luck and happy adventuring!

[YossarianLives]

He killed the Tailor
That sick son of a bitch...

[LoyalPaladin]

That sick son of a bitch...
Hahaha. That is my favorite reaction of the day.

[Ferronach]

That sick son of a bitch...

Was his name Kenny?

Jokes aside, welcome to the forum!

If you want to try in person games, ask your friends/family/co-workers etc.
I am always amazed at how many of my friends are actually interested in giving D&D a shot (a lot of them are female too! so don't count the ladies out).
Lots of people have heard of D&D and are curious, but have never had an opportunity to play it.
I was at a wedding over the weekend and was talking about a campaign that I am working on putting together and lots of people (including many who I don't even know) joined in and asked questions about D&D and expressed interest in trying it out.
Just remember that it is not for everyone so don't try to force someone to play if they don't like it. You can always talk to them and figure out what they don't like and try and work around it but some people try it and just flat out don't like it.

If you can't find an experienced DM, I recommend checking out some of the pre-made campaign/adventure books.
Many of them are new player friendly and will teach you how to DM along the way.
I haven't played many of them but a shout out on these forums would get you all the advice you could ever want regarding which one(s) to give a shot.

I think that most of the people here have had to walk away from a game for some reason or other at some point.
Sadly this is just how it goes when talking to the players and the DM repeatedly has no effect.
If your DM is more interested in playing league than with you guys, that is just rude of him to even start the session.
If I DM I give my players my e-mail and Skype info and get back to them as soon as I can.
Most of the players are good friends so they have my phone number too.

[DraconicVixen]

Wow. Bigger response than I expected. I checked before I went to work, nothing... Then boom! So far the new DM has been alerted and he plans to work on what he can over the next week. The old DM's game I walked away from... Personally IRL games are my favorite, I just don't live in an area with many people my age.

As far as strength. The player was a fighter lv. 1, boasting 18 strength, 220gp he used to purchase five weapons he could equip at any given moment with a +2 on great sword. His first attack he landed 13 damage (2d6+6)... And the commoners and even the creatures we encountered didn't have that much HP.

[LoyalPaladin]

As far as strength. The player was a fighter lv. 1, boasting 18 strength, 220gp he used to purchase five weapons he could equip at any given moment with a +2 on great sword. His first attack he landed 13 damage (2d6+6)... And the commoners and even the creatures we encountered didn't have that much HP.
Back when I started playing my main Paladin of Torm, I have 18 Str and a Large Greatsword. That is downright destructive. 3d6+1.5 Str Mod = World of hurt at low levels.

Granted, he is a paladin. Which means there was no murderhobo tendencies.

[Ferronach]

Wow. Bigger response than I expected. I checked before I went to work, nothing... Then boom! So far the new DM has been alerted and he plans to work on what he can over the next week. The old DM's game I walked away from... Personally IRL games are my favorite, I just don't live in an area with many people my age.

As far as strength. The player was a fighter lv. 1, boasting 18 strength, 220gp he used to purchase five weapons he could equip at any given moment with a +2 on great sword. His first attack he landed 13 damage (2d6+6)... And the commoners and even the creatures we encountered didn't have that much HP.

It is good to hear that the new DM is listening to his players :)

At low levels, fighters/barbarians etc. hit really hard. They are capable of singlehandedly obliterating a whole bunch of things. Unfortunately for them (and those of us who enjoy playing them) this damage does not scale in an even remotely close manner to that of spell classes.

In order to increase his damage a Fighter can:

increase his strength (requires 2 point for 1-2 points of damage depending on the weapon)
drop his to hit by a greater amount to squeeze more out of power attack and run the risk of not hitting his target
buy an extra +1 enchantment for his weapon which gets expensive really quick and only gives +1 damage at a time
take certain feats that usually have a few pre-requisites
wield a bigger weapon but incur a penalty or have to take a feat (this is probably going to be the biggest damage gain)
resort to cheese (shenanigans that usually upset others)


These are small (usually) linear increases.
Casters increase their damage exponentially (for all intents and purposes).

There are ways to make a martial character closer to the casters at high level but it requires a heck of a lot of work.
Don't be discouraged at the difference in damage early on, your sneak attack will soon allow you to way outdamage an unoptimized fighter.

[DraconicVixen]

I don't even know what an optimized character is. I just picked a character type I thought I would enjoy at went for it. In fact, despite what I've heard about TWF, I said to hell with it, and now I'm playing a TWF rogue. I'll have to see how that pans out considering I'm at -1, -1 for attack rolls. I can't imagine that's going to be good for me.

[LoyalPaladin]

I don't even know what an optimized character is. I just picked a character type I thought I would enjoy at went for it. In fact, despite what I've heard about TWF, I said to hell with it, and now I'm playing a TWF rogue. I'll have to see how that pans out considering I'm at -1, -1 for attack rolls. I can't imagine that's going to be good for me.
I built a TWF rogue awakened house cat that used keen kukris. Confound the Big Folk + Sneak Attack + Crit Fishing is a meaaaan combo.

[DraconicVixen]

... So now I've unposted my post. I didn't even know that was possible! I'm annoyed now...

Anyways! What about prestiging into an assassin? I read about a lot of people who really like the shadow dancer, and I do too, but I want to kick ass- preferably as stealthily as possible- without magic.. That goes without saying, my character would like to summon some demons at some point to further his evil lust.

[LoyalPaladin]

... So now I've unposted my post. I didn't even know that was possible! I'm annoyed now...

Anyways! What about prestiging into an assassin? I read about a lot of people who really like the shadow dancer, and I do too, but I want to kick ass- preferably as stealthily as possible- without magic.. That goes without saying, my character would like to summon some demons at some point to further his evil lust.
Assassin is cool. I'm not a fan of evil, but the class does its job.

[DraconicVixen]

I'm not usually either, but I thought it would be fun to play outside my norm. Instead of someone who skirts along the fringes of society and plucks what little wealth she finds unprotected... I thought it might be more fun to simply ruin as many lives as I can to date an uncompromising hunger!

[Larkas]

I'm not usually either, but I thought it would be fun to play outside my norm. Instead of someone who skirts along the fringes of society and plucks what little wealth she finds unprotected... I thought it might be more fun to simply ruin as many lives as I can to date an uncompromising hunger!

Assassin is a decent class... In 3.X. If playing Pathfinder, try using Crimson Assassin instead. Anyways, the problem with the class is usually the required alignment, but seeing as you're okay with that, you should have fun with it!

[Ferronach]

I don't even know what an optimized character is.

An optimized character is one that is carefully planned and specifically buit to do X and to do it well. It usually requires using loopholes and such in the rules and descriptions of feats/spells etc.
Don't worry too much about it in groups where most people are new as everyone will usually be "low op." As you learn the game and your system mastery improoves, you will most likely begin to optimize all on your own without realising it. If you want to see what optimization can do, check out some of the signatures and posts found in this forum :smallsmile:


I just picked a character type I thought I would enjoy at went for it. In fact, despite what I've heard about TWF, I said to hell with it, and now I'm playing a TWF rogue. I'll have to see how that pans out considering I'm at -1, -1 for attack rolls. I can't imagine that's going to be good for me.

This to me is the best way to play. You can have the strongest character who walks in and clears the room instantly but not have any fun.
D&D should be all about the fun so play what makes you happy, even if it isnt the strongest or most balanced character.
I have played my share of "less optimal" characters and had a blast doing so!

For your TWF, make sure that the weapon in your off hand is "light" otherwise you will get more penalties :smallwink:

[DraconicVixen]

For your TWF, make sure that the weapon in your off hand is "light" otherwise you will get more penalties :smallwink:

I REALLY want to do a short sword rapier combo. That sounds like a bad-ass combo, but sadly, the SS isn't considered a light weapon! Instead I have a rapier sickle combo! Woo- slash and stab!

[Crake]

That goes without saying, my character would like to summon some demons at some point to further his evil lust.

Ooooh! Fiend summoning, I can get on board with this! If you want to play a non-magical character, but still want to summon demons, my suggestion would be to ask your DM if you can use the sacrifice rules in the book of vile darkness. Basically it involves a knowledge religion check and an innocent bystander. Normally someone without many ranks or a high int check would be hard pressed to meet the DC, however there are a bunch of different things you can do to add to the sacrifice beyond just stabbing the victim in the chest, like torture, and having followers or important creatures relevant to your deity present, being in a desecrated/unhallowed area, having an altar, performing ceremonies and more. The DC for a Lesser Planar Ally is 25, which can get you up to 6HD outsider, including my favourite, the succubus, a great utility creature to have for a sneay/manipulative character, but be careful, if your DM plays the fiends right, you'll have your work cut out for you keeping them under control.

[DraconicVixen]

Ooooh! Fiend summoning, I can get on board with this! If you want to play a non-magical character, but still want to summon demons, my suggestion would be to ask your DM if you can use the sacrifice rules in the book of vile darkness. Basically it involves a knowledge religion check and an innocent bystander. Normally someone without many ranks or a high int check would be hard pressed to meet the DC, however there are a bunch of different things you can do to add to the sacrifice beyond just stabbing the victim in the chest, like torture, and having followers or important creatures relevant to your deity present, being in a desecrated/unhallowed area, having an altar, performing ceremonies and more. The DC for a Lesser Planar Ally is 25, which can get you up to 6HD outsider, including my favourite, the succubus, a great utility creature to have for a sneay/manipulative character, but be careful, if your DM plays the fiends right, you'll have your work cut out for you keeping them under control.

I must ask him now, in extremely excited about the prospects of this revelation! I wasn't even aware that there was a book that detailed that very thing!

-I'm literally trembling from excitement.-

I hope he does get mind for a deceitful fiend! I play an arrogant rogue-assassin-to-be. Dark magicks in the form o summoning sound so much fun... Even if it comes back to bite him in the ass!

-I'm strugling so badly to keep my excitement under wraps.-

I may want to save this for another campaign though... The DM I'm with is new, and isn't very good at world gen (society's reactions to PC actions.)

[Tiri]

I REALLY want to do a short sword rapier combo. That sounds like a bad-ass combo, but sadly, the SS isn't considered a light weapon! Instead I have a rapier sickle combo! Woo- slash and stab!

A short sword is a light weapon.

[DraconicVixen]

A short sword is a light weapon.

Wat.

I thought the entry me and the DM read saw it as one handed... So we didn't consider it light.

[marphod]

Wat.

I thought the entry me and the DM read saw it as one handed... So we didn't consider it light.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm

Martial Weapons: Light melee Weapons
The last on the list is a Short Sword.

[DraconicVixen]

Surely enough! Would that extra crit range be worth trading for the 1d6 on the sickle?

[LoyalPaladin]

Surely enough! Would that extra crit range be worth trading for the 1d6 on the sickle?
I'm not the right playgrounder for this, but I'm sure someone can tell you the payoff with a fancy equation.

[Segev]

The mechanical differences between the sickle and the short sword are that the sickle is simple, where the short sword is martial, and the short sword has a better critical threat range. They otherwise have the same game statistics. (Well, the short sword costs 4 more gp, as well, but that's almost never a consideration.)

Short swords, in a bit of meta-analysis, also tend to have more feats and to show up more as magic items, though a DM will often tailor treasure to his party enough that your sickle-using specialist may well find a decent number of them lying around.

Unless you have class features which make the sickle better, I'd go with the short sword if you have the proficiency.

[Deadline]

Surely enough! Would that extra crit range be worth trading for the 1d6 on the sickle?

Uh, there is no trade? A shortsword does 1d6 damage with a greater crit range than a sickle. If you have the proficiency to use a shortsword, then use it because it's better.

[DraconicVixen]

I must be going insane! I could have sworn that the short sword was 1d4... If it's a 1d6, there's no downside!

I'll get the chance to rebuild. I hope it's for the better. The second DM I mentioned from above wanted to reboot our session since the last went poorly and we suspected the other PC of cheating (plus murdering EVERYTHING). He wants to make all PC rolls public, including character generation rolls, as well as character approval for the sake of making sure that we're not cheating our stats.