Shapechange+Alter Self

[DarkSonic1337]

I'm currently playing a Spelldancer persisting gish in an epic campaign (just hit level 20) and I want to get some benefits out of shapechange...without looking like some weird monster. I want to be able to look like my original form, but have cool abilities (and stats) from my shapechange. Note that I am a Dex fighter who's primary weapon is a rapier. This is non-negotiable.

Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9/Spelldancer 1/Abjurant Champion 4

[Oberon Kenobi]

Buy a Hat of Disguise? If you change your shape, you change your shape, unless your GM rules otherwise; you have to do the thing to do the thing.

You could maybe pick up Spell Thematics and define the overarching visual theme as your original form. I would personally consider that a stretch, but eh.

[Bad Wolf]

The Titan can assume the shape of any small or medium humanoid. Shapeshift into a Titan, then use its ability.

[DarkSonic1337]

If I could turn myself into something, then alter self into something human shaped that would be great. Right now I'm thinking about Solar and just using its Change Shape ability but I was wondering what my other options were.

[paperarmor]

What about Changeling? That should be able to do it.

[ben-zayb]

The answer is simply to get the Invisible Spell feat and apply it to your Shapechange. That way, only someone with See Invisibility will see your twisted form, while those with normal sight or under the effects of True Seeing will only see your true, normal form.

EDIT: possibly relevant to my suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257223-Invisible-Spell-Transmutation-Spells-and-other-shenanigans)

[Rubik]

Find a human-shaped giant, outsider, fey, or aberration that's commensurate with your Shapechange limit, use the shrink collar from the A&EG (which makes you Small sized without altering any of your abilities, including your ability scores), and follow it up with Alter Self to make yourself a size category larger. Or you could stay Small, assuming you're not grappling or something.

[Cruiser1]

I want to be able to look like my original form, but have cool abilities (and stats) from my shapechange.
Just cast Shapechange and then cast Alter Self. :smallsmile: (Alter Self allows you to change into your original unbuffed form.) Both spells replace your form, so the form from Alter Self will replace that from Shapechange. However only Shapechange alters your stats and (Su)/(Ex) abilities, and Alter Self doesn't adjust them, so casting Alter Self after Shapechange will still leave you with the main abilities of Shapechange. For more about this issue when it came up before, see: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19322763&postcount=2

[Crake]

The answer is simply to get the Invisible Spell feat and apply it to your Shapechange. That way, only someone with See Invisibility will see your twisted form, while those with normal sight or under the effects of True Seeing will only see your true, normal form.

EDIT: possibly relevant to my suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257223-Invisible-Spell-Transmutation-Spells-and-other-shenanigans)

I think there are a few arguments against something like that working. "Visual manifestations" of a spell is incredibly ambiguous, and considering that it specifies that creatures with detect magic, see invis, and true seeing active at the time of the spell being cast seems to imply that it's only the instantaneous visual effects that accompany the spell, for example, a disintegrate ray would be invisible, but the dust it leaves behind would not be. Likewise, for something like a transformation spell, the transformation would be invisible, so the target would simply seem to instantly change from one form to another, rather than going through a transformation process. I think one of the uses of the spell would be to conceal the nature of the spell against people who see the visual manifestations. If someone just suddenly changed into a monster, there's no way to tell if it was a polymorph spell, or something like that one spell that teleports you to safety and replaces you with an evil outsider (I can't remember what it's called), or hell, even benign transposition with a nearby hidden summoned monster.

Either way, take advice like this with a grain of salt, because I have not yet met a DM who would rule that way.