Garresh
2015-07-29, 12:25 AM
Sorry for the controversial title. I'm posting this here because I tried the Reddit D&D next forums and got mixed results. If I get trashed here as well I'll admit defeat and go home.
Anyways, I recently rolled an Arcane Trickster for a D&D campaign, and had my first session last night. Before you ask, things are going great. My DM is very open minded and willing to consider balance and fairness with her calls, so I haven't had any issues with actual play experience yet. My issue is that I'm seeing a lot of problems with rules calls with regards to stealth in 5e. It's incredibly vague at points, and really seems to be 100% DM fiat. Most of the situations I've seen we've been able to hash out by talking about it and agreeing on stuff that seems fairs, but there's one rule question that is irking me a great deal. We already found a homebrew agreed on solution, but I've been combing the internet and I've honestly found nothing.
The rule is, quite simply, how does verbal spell components interact with stealth. There are no rules on the subject, but given that the sorcerer has access to metamagic subtle spell, there is a STRONG implication that spells cannot be done quietly without access to Sorcerer metamagic. Furthermore, descriptions of verbal components often describe it as chanting with a specific pitch and intonation, and seemingly implying a set volume as well. That seems sensible, until it runs smack first into an entire archetype based around Mage Hand.
Mage Hand is a cantrip that requires verbal and somatic components, but only has a duration of 60 seconds. It's also the basis of an entire archetype, the arcane trickster. The trickster gets bonuses on using mage hand to perform sleight of hand and stealth tasks. But a fairly literal reading of spell casting in the context of the sorcerer metamagic and the description of verbal components implies that casting it will instantly give away your position, or at the very least put an enemy on alert, rendering it's usefulness as a utility spell almost garbage. Taking a strict interpretation of the rules, the only one to utilize this outside of a combat situation or setting off traps is to cast it from a great distance away, then sneak up and use it for one or two rounds before it disappears.
This seems incredibly clunky, and something of an oversight to me. Now, for the sake of simplicity, my DM and I have decided to simply make non-hostile casting able to be done quietly, with a stealth check. The check is made at disadvantage(or the enemy gets advantage, if there's multiple enemies at multiple distances) if I'm within like 15-20 feet, but is otherwise made at no penalties and with bonuses if at a great distance(like 60 feet). It's not a hard and fast rule, but it feels sensible and I don't feel that it is particularly unfair.
The thing is, we basically just had to make that rule up completely. And I'm not sure what the "intended" use of mage hand is, or how spellcasting from stealth is supposed To work. Can someone shed some light on this, and let me know if our interpretations seem correct?
Anyways, I recently rolled an Arcane Trickster for a D&D campaign, and had my first session last night. Before you ask, things are going great. My DM is very open minded and willing to consider balance and fairness with her calls, so I haven't had any issues with actual play experience yet. My issue is that I'm seeing a lot of problems with rules calls with regards to stealth in 5e. It's incredibly vague at points, and really seems to be 100% DM fiat. Most of the situations I've seen we've been able to hash out by talking about it and agreeing on stuff that seems fairs, but there's one rule question that is irking me a great deal. We already found a homebrew agreed on solution, but I've been combing the internet and I've honestly found nothing.
The rule is, quite simply, how does verbal spell components interact with stealth. There are no rules on the subject, but given that the sorcerer has access to metamagic subtle spell, there is a STRONG implication that spells cannot be done quietly without access to Sorcerer metamagic. Furthermore, descriptions of verbal components often describe it as chanting with a specific pitch and intonation, and seemingly implying a set volume as well. That seems sensible, until it runs smack first into an entire archetype based around Mage Hand.
Mage Hand is a cantrip that requires verbal and somatic components, but only has a duration of 60 seconds. It's also the basis of an entire archetype, the arcane trickster. The trickster gets bonuses on using mage hand to perform sleight of hand and stealth tasks. But a fairly literal reading of spell casting in the context of the sorcerer metamagic and the description of verbal components implies that casting it will instantly give away your position, or at the very least put an enemy on alert, rendering it's usefulness as a utility spell almost garbage. Taking a strict interpretation of the rules, the only one to utilize this outside of a combat situation or setting off traps is to cast it from a great distance away, then sneak up and use it for one or two rounds before it disappears.
This seems incredibly clunky, and something of an oversight to me. Now, for the sake of simplicity, my DM and I have decided to simply make non-hostile casting able to be done quietly, with a stealth check. The check is made at disadvantage(or the enemy gets advantage, if there's multiple enemies at multiple distances) if I'm within like 15-20 feet, but is otherwise made at no penalties and with bonuses if at a great distance(like 60 feet). It's not a hard and fast rule, but it feels sensible and I don't feel that it is particularly unfair.
The thing is, we basically just had to make that rule up completely. And I'm not sure what the "intended" use of mage hand is, or how spellcasting from stealth is supposed To work. Can someone shed some light on this, and let me know if our interpretations seem correct?