Semi Devil Duskblade

[ReD_Exorcist]

So just for reference, If one were to be a Duskblade and start at level 3 With. 1000 GP. One 1st Level, 2nd Level and 3rd Level Item. What feats, templates, magic items and classes would you recommend for him if he wanted to be like a devil meaning. He has a gore, bite, claw and sting attack plus wings.(By the way I already know about dragon disciple for the claws, bite and wings) No need to source everything together, if you only know about one of the parts then just tell me thats fine :D

[marphod]

So just for reference, If one were to be a Duskblade and start at level 3 With. 1000 GP. One 1st Level, 2nd Level and 3rd Level Item. What feats, templates, magic items and classes would you recommend for him if he wanted to be like a devil meaning. He has a gore, bite, claw and sting attack plus wings.(By the way I already know about dragon disciple for the claws, bite and wings) No need to source everything together, if you only know about one of the parts then just tell me thats fine :D

What's allowed? What's Banned?

Are you looking for a 3rd level build, or for a full build that is playable at 3rd level?

What do you mean by Duskblade, if you're asking about other classes?

If you want to go full-dragon, (Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold) Dragonborn, which should (if your DM lets you do it) be a -4 Str, +3 Int/Wis/Cha Dragon(Dragonblood,Reptilian) race. Pick up wings from Dragonborn racial feature, Dragon Tail as a retrained feat when taking Dragonborn. IIRC you can take the draconic heritage feats, as well, so there you go for claws and breath weapon.

Races of the Dragon.

Rather than the feats, you could also get yourself access to Alter Self (Use Magic Device, Deep Dragon Draconic heritage, pick up a relevant domain with a Cloistered Cleric dip, etc.), and use it to change into some of the lesser-dragons with those attack forms.

[Red Rubber Band]

Duskblade's signature ability won't work with all of those natural attacks, so I hope there's either a DM ruling on that or you mean something other than the class Duskblade.

[ReD_Exorcist]

So the class Duskblade is just my base class but I meant PrC recommendations, I just want to be able to get wings, stinger, claws, bite and gore attacks. I want to make him look like a half devil (Not the devils from DnD, a devil like satan except half human/ devil. So he has all the parts except his skin isnt red) Not sure if thats what satan looks like..) A full build that I can start progessing into now would be best.

[frogglesmash]

So the class Duskblade is just my base class but I meant PrC recommendations, I just want to be able to get wings, stinger, claws, bite and gore attacks. I want to make him look like a half devil (Not the devils from DnD, a devil like satan except half human/ devil. So he has all the parts except his skin isnt red) Not sure if thats what satan looks like..) A full build that I can start progessing into now would be best.

You could just make extensive use of grafts, hell half of the ones you'd need are fiendish in nature so it works out thematically as well.

[ReD_Exorcist]

You could just make extensive use of grafts, hell half of the ones you'd need are fiendish in nature so it works out thematically as well.

What do you mean by Grafts?

[Deadline]

What do you mean by Grafts?

Grafts are kind of like a magic item, where you fuse body parts onto your character. They are in several books, but for starts, you can get everything you are looking for (except the bite attack) from the Fiendish Grafts in the Fiend Folio (pg. 210-211). It'll be expensive though. 2 Clawed Arm grafts (for claw attacks), Membranous Wings graft (for flight), Fiendish Jaw (for the gore attack), and a Sting Tail graft (for your scorpion stinger tail).

Of course you could save yourself a ton of money and take the half-fiend template instead, which gives you most of what you are after.

[ReD_Exorcist]

Grafts are kind of like a magic item, where you fuse body parts onto your character. They are in several books, but for starts, you can get everything you are looking for (except the bite attack) from the Fiendish Grafts in the Fiend Folio (pg. 210-211). It'll be expensive though. 2 Clawed Arm grafts (for claw attacks), Membranous Wings graft (for flight), Fiendish Jaw (for the gore attack), and a Sting Tail graft (for your scorpion stinger tail).

Of course you could save yourself a ton of money and take the half-fiend template instead, which gives you most of what you are after.

The problem with Half-Fiend though is the LA Would it still be worth even if my DM didnt allow LA buy off?

[ReD_Exorcist]

Also is there a way to become a Devil?

[frogglesmash]

Also is there a way to become a Devil?

Well there's Acolyte of the Skin, but that class is pretty darned terrible.

[Deadline]

Also is there a way to become a Devil?

Not really, no. There's the Acolyte of the Skin prestige class in Complete Arcane which turns you into an Outsider. In D&D, a Devil is an Outsider with the following Subtypes: Baatezu, Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful.

But if you want a character with a permanent gore, bite, claw and sting attack plus wings, you aren't going to find it without significant wealth, level, or LA expenditure.

Dragon Disciple capstone will get you bite, claw, and wings. Fiendish grafts will cost you a couple hundred thousand gold to get the Gore and Sting, and Acolyte of the Skin capstone will get you the outsider type. You can't fit all those levels in before level 20 though, so you either need to give up something, or instead try to do it temporarily through things like spells.

[frogglesmash]

You could take a level of the Half Fiend savage progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a) and then use Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) or Legacy Champion (Weapons of Legacy) to advance the abilities while only gaining a +1 LA. (both these PrC's advance one of your other class's class features) I'd recommend Uncanny Trickster because it doesn't require you to convince your DM to use Wepons of Legacy.

Edit: Only two of Uncanny Trickster's 3 levels advance class features so you'd have to deal with a +2 LA if you go that route.

[Urpriest]

Web Enhancement Kobold is the easiest way to get claw+claw+bite at low levels. The other attacks are harder, though there are feats that can help, and the Totemist class can give you many of the desired attacks.

That said, any reason you want to do this with a Duskblade? As mentioned, you're kind of incentivizing your character in two different directions, and that can make your character frustrating to play.

[ReD_Exorcist]

Web Enhancement Kobold is the easiest way to get claw+claw+bite at low levels. The other attacks are harder, though there are feats that can help, and the Totemist class can give you many of the desired attacks.

That said, any reason you want to do this with a Duskblade? As mentioned, you're kind of incentivizing your character in two different directions, and that can make your character frustrating to play.

I wanted to be able to get the feat Obtain Familiar from CA and Improved Familiar from CW to get myself a hell hound :smallbiggrin:

[marphod]

Any arcane class will let you get an improved familiar; if you're going fiendish, you probably want to do a sorceror/melee build.

[ReD_Exorcist]

Any arcane class will let you get an improved familiar; if you're going fiendish, you probably want to do a sorceror/melee build.

I thought sorcerers had crappy Hit Die and Bab progession

[Red Rubber Band]

I thought sorcerers had crappy Hit Die and Bab progession

They do, but you get full casting and you can PrC out whenever you want and never look back.
If you go down the Duskblade route you want to get to 13th level ASAP, so LA is kinda out (unless you're using LA buyoff). And the mechanics don't synergise well with the flavour you're going for :smallfrown:

[marphod]

I thought sorcerers had crappy Hit Die and Bab progession

BAB is irrelevant if you are going after natural attacks; you don't get iterative attacks with them so a high BAB doesn't help more than any other attack bonus.

Sorcerers get d6 Hit Dice. Which is better than the Wizards d4s; but also mostly ignorable. Miss chances (Mirror image, concealment/invisibility, blink, displacement) will pick up some of that slack. You will want a decent Con score, and spells or items that grant you temp HP, and maybe Feats that up your HP as well.

You also won't be a Sorcerer for long. You've got 2 class features, both of which come at first level. Eschew Material Components, which is worth replacing if you cam, unless you DM is in the habit of stealing your component pouch, and a familiar, which you may want to swap for the rapid metamagic class feature. After 1st level, class features aren't something sorcerers get.

So get into full spellcasting PrCs as soon as you can. There are plenty of good combat-focused prestige classes to consider.

You also can take various Heritage feats to get your natural attacks, additional spells known, and other boosts.

[Urpriest]

BAB is irrelevant if you are going after natural attacks; you don't get iterative attacks with them so a high BAB doesn't help more than any other attack bonus.

Sorcerers get d6 Hit Dice. Which is better than the Wizards d4s; but also mostly ignorable. Miss chances (Mirror image, concealment/invisibility, blink, displacement) will pick up some of that slack. You will want a decent Con score, and spells or items that grant you temp HP, and maybe Feats that up your HP as well.

You also won't be a Sorcerer for long. You've got 2 class features, both of which come at first level. Eschew Material Components, which is worth replacing if you cam, unless you DM is in the habit of stealing your component pouch, and a familiar, which you may want to swap for the rapid metamagic class feature. After 1st level, class features aren't something sorcerers get.

So get into full spellcasting PrCs as soon as you can. There are plenty of good combat-focused prestige classes to consider.

You also can take various Heritage feats to get your natural attacks, additional spells known, and other boosts.

The OP started with a Duskblade, they're not playing PF.

[ReD_Exorcist]

So your recommending Battle Sorcerer hmmm, I dont think I would want to switch out my Familiar. Sounds solid and good, alright ill try it out see how it goes. Just need to work on getting a stinger and gore attack now.

[marphod]

The OP started with a Duskblade, they're not playing PF.

Uh, yeah. And?

Oh. Right. No Eschew Material Components. Because that is how PF fixed Sorcs. I forgotted -- I've just used that as a house rule for too long.



So your recommending Battle Sorcerer hmmm, I dont think I would want to switch out my Familiar. Sounds solid and good, alright ill try it out see how it goes. Just need to work on getting a stinger and gore attack now.

I recommend going sorcerer and having a field day. I do not recommend Battle Sorcerer. Gah, no. It, like the second Death Star, is a trap. You're going to be in the Sorcerer class for as few levels as possible (no more than 5, hopefully 3 or 4); do not give up spells for +1 BAB and 5-6 HP. Dear gods, no.

I suggest giving up your class feature of a Familiar so that 3 + Int Mod times a day, you can cast spells with Metamagic, without taking extra time.

If you want a familiar back, feel free to take Obtain Familiar as a feat. In fact, that gets you a better familiar, as it is based on levels in arcane casting classes, not just levels in Sorcerer.

[Pyromancer999]

Uh, yeah. And?

Oh. Right. No Eschew Material Components. Because that is how PF fixed Sorcs. I forgotted -- I've just used that as a house rule for too long.


They also only have a d4 hit die as opposed to d6, as that is another PF fix.



I recommend going sorcerer and having a field day. I do not recommend Battle Sorcerer. Gah, no. It, like the second Death Star, is a trap. You're going to be in the Sorcerer class for as few levels as possible (no more than 5, hopefully 3 or 4); do not give up spells for +1 BAB and 5-6 HP. Dear gods, no.

I suggest giving up your class feature of a Familiar so that 3 + Int Mod times a day, you can cast spells with Metamagic, without taking extra time.

If you want a familiar back, feel free to take Obtain Familiar as a feat. In fact, that gets you a better familiar, as it is based on levels in arcane casting classes, not just levels in Sorcerer.

I will echo this advice, with a few extra suggestions:


You can always prestige into Fiend-Blooded, as that gives a lot of fiend-flavored casting, extra spells, some buffs to your ability scores and natural armor, as well as a Fiendish familiar
For natural attacks, you can look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127463-3-X-Extra-attacks-natural-attacks-AoO&p=7066595#post7066595). I would recommend a 1 level dip in Totemist, as that will effectively net you all the natural attacks you should need. Alternatively, start as a Changeling, then dip into Warshaper as soon as you can.
For any natural attacks you can't get(which should only be 1 or 2), as mentioned earlier in the thread, fiendish grafts are always an option
While Battle Sorcerer is a terrible idea, Stalwart Sorcerer may be worth considering. In exchange for 1 spell from your highest level known from sorcerer levels at a given time, you get 2 extra hit points/sorcerer level and proficiency with one martial weapon, which allows you to qualify for Abjurant Champion without having to multiclass. This comes with the caveat, though, that the sorcerer is spell-starved as it is, so this may not necessarily be a trade you want to make.

[Urpriest]

So let me take a moment to talk about the actual goals of your character. You want:

1. A Hell Hound companion.

2. All the natural attacks of a Pit Fiend, plus extra. (Do you specifically want gore+bite+claw+sting? Pit Fiends get bite+claw+wings+tail, I can't think of a devil that gets the specific combination you're asking for.)

3. Competence in melee so that you can use all of these.

4. Survivability at level 3.

Does that sum it up? And just to check, you're only going with an arcane caster because it grants you this stuff, right?

Are you allowed to use Leadership?

[marphod]

While Battle Sorcerer is a terrible idea, Stalwart Sorcerer may be worth considering. In exchange for 1 spell from your highest level known from sorcerer levels at a given time, you get 2 extra hit points/sorcerer level and proficiency with one martial weapon, which allows you to qualify for Abjurant Champion without having to multiclass. This comes with the caveat, though, that the sorcerer is spell-starved as it is, so this may not necessarily be a trade you want to make.

I'm not sure even Stalwart is that great an idea. You get a weapon proficiency, and 10-ish HP, for a spell. At low level, this is fine, but at high level, it hurts. Qualifying for Abjurant Champ is a nice side-benefit, but I'd rather take a flaw, a Cloistered Cleric dip (with War Domain), or even spend the feat straight-up, if I'm expecting a game that goes to level 14+.

On the other hand, you can almost get the spell known back in the form of a custom Runestaff, although that can be expensive. You can even get flexibility by having a variety of Runestaves with different spell lists, but that's even more expensive.