OOTS #447 - The (Late) Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

OK, Wednesday's comic is now up.

There will be an additional comic later tonight (Friday) and it will be a double-length strip. Don't expect it until around midnight, though.

[Nitan]

I wonder how long they'll last? They seem to be decently equiped but he's a nigh epic level lich...

[teratorn]

OK, Wednesday's comic is now up.

There will be an additional comic later tonight (Friday) and it will be a double-length strip. Don't expect it until around midnight, though.

Wow, things see to be moving fast now. I don't care about delays, they make for a better weekend.

[Mr Teufel]

Hope everything's ok, Rich.

[RTGoodman]

Sweet. I wonder what the deal is with the Paladin in the hood... that could have some awesome potential...

[Alysar]

You're alive! ::Dances with glee::

Don't ever scare us like that again! We thought something horrible might have happened to you!

Edit: Excellent comic, as per usual ;)

[RMS Oceanic]

That looks so cool.

But I'm much happier that you're alright. As I'm sure you've seen, we were rather concerned about you.

[Setra]

Two words: HOLY CRAP

This oughta be good!

ps. Yay you weren't killed by a Ninja!

[Sampi]

Very nice. That's more paladins than I expected.

Can't wait for the next strip, must use time machine to travel to the future..

[Mangangatha]

Yay!

I sincerely hope those Paladins will last more than a comic!

[Hinton]

Good to hear that you're okay, Giant. Many of us were concerned for you.

[Agalyon]

Nice Comic Giant, hope you feel better =)

[Zeb The Troll]

Sweet. I wonder what the deal is with the Paladin in the hood... that could have some awesome potential...That was the first thing I noticed in that panel too.

Looks suspiciously like Miko before she was unmasked so long ago, I thought.

Naaaah.

[commanderkoo]

Its weird. Even though they're all stick figures, none of the paladin women in that room look as pretty as Miko.

Maybe its her hair.

[Porthos]

Interesting that they're letting a Fallen Paladin help defend the Gate (check out the figure on the left side near the throne)....

[Icewalker]

Impressive. Splash paladin battle page.
I wonder what he's planning....he's acting like he has everything under control...

What happened Rich! we were all worried!

[Kyace]

One the count of three, everyone smite evil as hard as you can. It is what Ignignokt would suggest.

[innk]

Ohmygods, Xykon is screwed!

[Shawnis]

I wonder how long they'll last? They seem to be decently equiped but he's a nigh epic level lich...

Actually I am suprised the guy that commanded the attack was able to get out the whole sentence. They won't last long at all...maybe a couple of "rounds"

[CindyKay]

I think that must be every paladin who has appeared in an Azure City strip! Go Paladins!

[Idless]

worth waiting for

[NotHear]

Yeah! The strip is always worth the wait.

[BlueHelmet]

uh-oh ... that sould give a nice showdown - and spill a lot of paladin blood.

[RMS Oceanic]

Did anybody notice that they never got round to fixing that window Miko and Belkar smashed through (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0284.html)? Good joke.

AND MitD is still wondering about Xykon's siblings.

AND Xykon continues to mess up the plan so he can have some fun. :p He may be outnumbered four scores to one, but I doubt many of those paladins are above level ten. Also, they're not PCs. There's going to be a slaughterfest shortly.

[jamroar]

Interesting that they're letting a Fallen Paladin help defend the Gate (check out the figure on the left side near the throne)....

I think that's a martial cleric or something, since she has what looks like a holy symbol.

[Midnight Lurker]

That there is a whole lot of paladin.

[starwoof]

Wow, those paladins are so effed.

[teratorn]

Interesting that they're letting a Fallen Paladin help defend the Gate (check out the figure on the left side near the throne)....

Nah, Miko is way better looking.

[NotHear]

Interesting that they're letting a Fallen Paladin help defend the Gate (check out the figure on the left side near the throne)....

I am not sure that the paladin is really fallen. There seem to be other paladin's (I count three) with the same gray color scheme.

It could also be that several fallen paladins are working on atonement with their throne room stand.

[Azukar]

Interesting that they're letting a Fallen Paladin help defend the Gate (check out the figure on the left side near the throne)....

Not sure if she's a Fallen or not...Her cape is pale blue (or possibly aqua, but not beige) and we can't see much more of her colour.

Azukar hasn't had internet all week, so he missed the Rich-being-gone trick. Still, it's nice to just now get the net again, and not one but two new pages!

[Jade_Tarem]

That's a lot of paladins.

Too bad Xykon still has the ability to cast meteor swarm.

[rosebud]

Oh, that's why the windows were boarded. I thought it was protection. I hope they have a large stash of diamonds -- they'll need it. (At least 5k for Roy, please!)

What's funny is so long as RedCloak stays away, does it really matter whether or not Xykon wins?

[Porthos]

I am not sure that the paladin is really fallen. There seem to be other paladin's (I count three) with the same gray color scheme.

It could also be that several fallen paladins are working on atonement with their throne room stand.

Well, I will admit that I'm not an 100% sure that is a Fallen Paladin in the background. But you must admit it would definitely meet just about anyone's Atonement requirements. :smallbiggrin:

[Messenger]

Oh man, this is gonna be a slaughter. :smalleek:

I figure all these guys probably think that dying in the line of duty is a great honor, but I still bet they're all gonna feel a lot of terror and dread when Xykon kills them. :smalleek: I really feel sorry for them.

And even if they manage to put down Xykon's undead body by sheer force of numbers, he's probably going to take down a lot of them with him. And he's still got his insurance policy hanging safely around Redcloak's neck at the very back lines of the Hobgoblin Legions.

[EricDerKonig]

And I happend to be listening to the climax of Holst's Mars theme when I read this comic. Very fitting. :smallcool:
Between that and Elan's Danny Boy, OOTS could be a musical.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I knew you weren't dead, Rich. :smile:

[Darkxarth]

First, we're all glad you're okay. We get a little *twitch* panicky without our OotS fix. It's sad for us but impressive for you. You realize you control the fate of thousands, don't you?

Second, good strip. I really like that all the Sapphire Guardians are unique, I'm probably going to spend the next few minutes looking at all of them and oohing and aahing at how you can make a roomful of stick figures with the same basic color scheme look different from each other.

[Turcano]

That... is a considerably greater level of defense than I was expecting.

Xykon will probably make shot work of most of them, though. With his badassness. And fire.

[battleburn]

Looking good!
Can't wait for the next comic. And of double length too...
The tower with the windows don't seem to be anywhere near anything. I wonder where Belkar and Miko were before they fell through that window.
I see three people with a grey cape instead of a blue one and a female palladin without a cape at all. But all of them are non-fallen I think.

Edit: And of course there is the hooded figure...

[Tharr]

That comic was barely worth it glad Friday will be the real thing.
Course nobody going to be here since the new Spiderman 3 movie is out.

[Renegade Paladin]

That's a lot of paladins. Pursuant to that observation: Question: Can you use the aid another action on turning attempts? I seem to recall something to that effect, but don't have time to go hunting through the Player's Handbook at the moment.

[Andorxor]

I don't think that Xykon plan to kill them all.He plans to be killed after he hided his phylactory somewhere in the throne room,that would give him enought undisturbed time with the rift.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm not sure what to expect now.

Either Xykon's second defeat (note defeat, not his final demise), or the Sapphire Guard Massacre. He's either very, very powerful (which seems unusual, given the rumors I've heard about sorcerers) or he's more overconfident than I imagined (I think it was justified with Roy, as that was a one-on-one duel, while this fight is remarkably lop-sided).

Somehow, I think I'm going to have to lean towards the latter. I only hope we can expect some major turning point soon, hopefully with this next comic. Glad to hear you're alright Mr. Burlew.

That said, GO TEAM PALADIN!

[Messenger]

Hm. What character classes comprise the Sapphire Guard? :smallconfused: Of course, Paladins and Clerics. There was that Wizard who served as magical transport to the Order. Anything else?

Rich's variation on the Sapphire Guard to give them apparent individuality is commendable and impressive. :smallsmile: Besides obvious samurai types wielding one-handed or dual-wielding daishos, there's a chick with an axe, a heavy armor guy with samurai helmet with visor and large shield, two archers at the throne platform, a guy with magical flying boots, two cloaked Sapphire Guardsmen (women? man and woman?), a bandana-wearing guy wielding a flaming sword...

[Renegade Paladin]

Except Redcloak is wearing the phylactery around his neck.

[Aerysil]

That's alotta honkin' paladins.

[Silverlocke980]

Don't worry about it, Rich. It's worth the wait!

[Lumenadducere]

Very glad to see you're alright, Giant. Take it as easy as you can.

As for the comic, man that does a great job of just setting up the anticipation for the next strip. Can't wait.

[carais]

About the suspected fallen paladin aka Miko - no, don't think it's her. Body armour is white, cape looks like almost pale blue, and the hair style is too orderly for Miko. And it's a bit longer than Miko's hair, methinks. Uncanny lookalike, however, at least.

Wondering who's the hooded figure, of course. And that chap near the throne on the right looks like he might teach Xykon a bit about being badass, too. Of all the paladins in the room at least that one for sure does have a magic sword.

[Merlin the Tuna]

That's a lot of paladins.

Too bad Xykon still has the ability to cast meteor swarm.He does, but that doesn't mean that Wail of the Banshee wouldn't be far, far cooler.

[Grasilich]

They're all going to die

[Glorfindel]

Nice picture in the last panel!

Sorry for the impatience :)

[Tharr]

The paladins have descent chance unless the theme music of Empire and he gets out some lightsaber.

[moleytov]

*ding*
the age old elevator voice joke. calssic. every time.
So they have a paladin with winded boots eh? Nice.

[Grasilich]

Is that boarded up window the one that Miko and Belkar crashed through during the trial?

[meep]

There are two hooded figures, actually. One with a hood like Miko had worn (all the way to the right, behind the crowd), and one in a darker blue cloak with a nice white stripe on the hood.

I wonder if that stripe signifies anything.

[Renegade Paladin]

Winged boots are awesome.

[teratorn]

They're all going to die

Then

All that would be left of the SG would be a fallen paladin and the ruler of a fallen city (if any of them survives). Spooky.

[Messenger]

Wondering who's the hooded figure, of course. And that chap near the throne on the right looks like he might teach Xykon a bit about being badass, too. Of all the paladins in the room at least that one for sure does have a magic sword.
On the two cloaked Sapphire Guard, it may not be anything special at all, but just their style of dress. Miko herself did go around like that for the longest time before catching up with the Order.

[tis_tom]

Good luck, Sapphire Guard!...

You're gonna need it..

[Pvednes]

Oooh. It's like http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0105.html (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0105.html) 's evil twin!!

[storybookknight]

IF he doesn't just wipe them all with a Wail (and he may not; if he's a sorcerer he might not have taken that spell, or he may decide to have 'fun'. In addition, paladin saves are good) then it'll still be a horribly difficult fight for the paladins. Smite Evil *might* be able to knock through DR; he probably has prohibitive SR for their casters, unfortunately.

I wonder if the OOTS-verse uses homeruled 3.0 DR/Magic rules? It'd make sense with Roy's +5 weapon being so good against everyone.

[Finn Solomon]

So sad to see all these paladins bite the dust. Come on lads, prove me wrong. Hope to see one or two of them take greater prominence within the stip.

[Pvednes]

That's gonna be a *lot* of Lay on Hands.

If he doesn't fry the lot in one round anyway.

[Elurindel]

Woo! Go, forty paladins and one mysterious cloaked figure, possibly Miko!:smallbiggrin:

[OmadaZero]

Maybe it's the fact that I've always played and imagined myself as a paladin...

Maybe it's the fact that I'm listening to Disturbed's "Sons of Plunder" while reading the strip.

Maybe it's because The Giant rocks. (Most likely)

But I can't wait to see some Lich kicking action! This is what the Sapphire Guard was made for; let's see what they can do.

[Borris]

Great splat picture, but at the cost of a difinite lack of jokes. Oh well,they can't all be hilarious, some are merely cool, and the boarded window did make me chuckle.

What I'm wondering, though, is why Xykon should have waited for the army to move in. What kind of plan did Redcloak make up this time? I hope we'll find out soon. I just can't wait for the next double-length strip. Well, actually, I can wait until tomorrow. Even with a few hours of delay, double-length strips always make me happy.

[isocum]

These paladins duty is damaging xykon enough so crippled oots can beat him. Roy's blade and v's magic were their best damage chances and they're gone, and i don't think belkar can make to the throne room. So RIP sapphire guard.

[Anthea]

My first thought on the hooded figure was: "Belkar?!?!"

[Pantler]

Well, it seems that Friday's strip will be most interesting :biggrin:

[silvadel]

I see a whole bunch of swords -- I dont see any magical bludgeoning weapons being bandied about... Assuming he has some sort of magic resistance buff up right now -- this response looks about as underwhelming as shooting 500 non-magical arrows at sabine.

[phlip]

Why is everyone talking about the hooded figure, singular?

There's clearly two... a blue-grey one in the middle-right, and a light blue one at the far right, to the back...

[Khoran]

Amazing Comic Rich, I can't wait to see how that turns out. I have a feeling that's the elite of the Saphire Guard in there, so my guess is that they're is going to be some major Smiting and Offensive Lay on Hands going on there.

Also, to everyone else, that is not Miko near the throne, in the front, or anywhere in the splash page. Miko is in Prison. She's in prison and still in beige (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html). And I don't think shes truely repentant about kill Shojo. It's just another Female Paladin.

[lord_khaine]

i think they have a chance, if they play it smart, and uses cordinatet Lay on Hands to disrupt xykons spellcasting, or better yet, graple him first, then take turns to Cure him whenever he tries to use magic.

[Callista]

If they die, I hope they at least get the chance to cause Xykon more than just a little trouble... at least they'll force him to expend spells he could've used on others.

The Sapphire Guard also has an advantage over Xykon, because they can afford to die--but Xykon can't. There are a lot of tactics you can use if you don't mind not coming out of it alive... Lich or not, Xykon is a key part of his army and, if destroyed, he would take a week to regenerate; he probably can't afford depriving his army of his spells for that long; so he's going to be protecting himself.

It would be really cool to see the paladins kick his undead butt, though I don't think that'll happen... he's twice their level, even if there are a lot of them. (Remember that Miko is/was the highest-level paladin in the Guard. So all of these guys have to be lower level than Miko.)

But if Xykon kills the Paladins, at least Hinjo and Miko won't be the only Sapphire Guard members left. Remember, there are still paladins who are out on quests at the moment, and the lower-level ones who are protecting the tower (rather than the throne room).

[factotum]

I'm not sure they have much of a chance using their weapons. Multiple Lay On Hands might work, but even then, we have a whole bunch of guys who probably aren't above level 10 trying to take on a level 18 sorcerer lich--and if the battle starts going badly for Xykon he can always fly right back out of that window and just annihilate them from range, since none of the guys in there seems to have a ranged weapon.

[fractal]

Is it just me, or would a better plan have been to put the paladins and spellcasters out on the walls, where they could do some good, and leave the Order of the Stick in the throne room?

Some Smite Evils would have been excellent vs. Redcloak's homemade undead, and in here they're all just going to die to area spells.

[Kyjibo]

I wonder where Belkar and Miko were before they fell through that window.

A question I don' think will ever be answered unfortunately

Great strip as always Giant, and we're all glad you're alright

[holywhippet]

The Sapphire guard are veterans in the field of dealing with evil, so you'd have to think they'd know how to take on a Lich. Everyone in the throne room would logically have weapons capable of hurting a lich and some would have undead specific weapons. I'd expect some to be enchanted with disruption just like Roy's sword was back then. All of the paladins have lay on hands and presumably smite evil. I'm guessing these are the best fighters they have on hand.

Xykon has a variety of spells, but all the paladins would have their bonus to saving throws as well as anything buff spells they were given beforehand.

On top of that, the guard have some wizards and clerics ready to pile spells on top of him.

To top it all off, the paladins could all be carrying vials of holy water which will hurt him badly if they toss them at him.

[darrell]

The final panel throws me back to the old days of Captain Britain (by Marvel comics), when the Captains from the various Earths of the omniverse would periodically get together. You'd basically get a couple of dozen characters all different in appearance, but all with a constant enough theme for the reader to see them as different versions of the same character.

[Aimbot]

I think the pallys have a shot, really. I'm not sure Xykon can rely on aria of effect spells, due to the sapphire and his proximity. I see one mid level wizard and what look like a fair few clerics.

[Adeptus]

The sapphire guard look so cool.

[Rad]

Great... cliffhanger. I have to admit that the Sapphire guard looks cool,
but I am afraid they do not stand a chance both mechanic-wise and plot-wise.
However a single high level counterspelling sorcerer could be a REAL pain for :xykon:
and yes, you can aid another on turning checks, but the max HD turned is still your level +4, so Xykon is not going to be affected (much less destroyed) by it. And with that many paladins chances are better if you wait for someone to roll a natural 20.

[Caelestion]

My first thought was "oops" and then "but this is D&D" :)

[Jawajoey]

What's stopping Xykon from just hovering over them out of reach and slaughtering them at his leisure? There's a measly two flying guys, plus holy water or whatever the paladins can through. That's nothing.

I'm very excited to see how this one turns out.

And all that talk about cloaked paladin this and fallen paladin that, there's nothing special going on. None of them are fallen, and the two cloaked guys are just paladins with hoods up. If a paladin can be robocop, I think they can put their hoods up when they want to.

[cavalier973]

At least they didn't say, "Surrender!"

That's not Miko in the back. Miko usually wields two swords (as, apparently, do several of the Sapphire Guard). Cool axe the the blue-haired girl in the front has. Also, the guy in the way back has some kind of magic sword. I wonder if they arranged themselves lowest level first, highest level nearest the throne?

[Mr Wizard]

As a person who has played many, many casters...


I love it when they all stand so close!:smallbiggrin:

...

Poor O-Chul. :smallfrown:

[Rasumichin]

Hm. What character classes comprise the Sapphire Guard? :smallconfused: Of course, Paladins and Clerics. There was that Wizard who served as magical transport to the Order. Anything else?

Monks would be likely, but from this perspective, there seem to be none (at least, noone except for the clerics is unarmed/unarmored, but some of the paladins could also have monk levels, like Miko).
There seems to be a multiclass paladin/cleric besides the throne, too.
All the robed NSCs are wearing holy symbols, so wizards (unless multiclassed) are not likely, either.

[Hypothetical]

I wonder if the OOTS-verse uses homeruled 3.0 DR/Magic rules? It'd make sense with Roy's +5 weapon being so good against everyone.

Um, go back to the beginning. ( I'm talking like strip 2 or 3 here.) OOTS is 3.5. No ifs, no ands, no rears. Yes, there is some Homebrew added in...but the Core Rules Rich is using are 3.5 all the way.

THat being said.....

The non-striped cloaked Pally is Miko. She escaped form prison ( and we wil get at least 2, if not 3, backstory comics on this like we did when Elan suddenly popped in with Thog on Nale and Haley). The striped cloaked Pally...is most likely a Cleric, or else a Wizard/Sorceror. ALthough the highly noticeable differance in basic colors makes me wonder if the reason that Xykon has gone for the Gate this early is because the Hecuva ( who we also haven't seen in nearly forever) has snuck into the Palace under cover of all the confusion.

Come on Midnight! Bring us the next update!

[cavalier973]

All they need to do is knock his head off and toss him into the gate

[carais]

What's stopping Xykon from just hovering over them out of reach and slaughtering them at his leisure?

Only Xykon's mindset, probably. I think he (not totally without reason) considers them not much more than flies needing to be swatted out of the way. OK, them's a _lot_ of paladins and casters. But considering how my NWN:HotU Fighter 9/Sorc 1/RDD 10 wades through a heap of driders of various occupations or drow assassins... a big level advantage really helps against numbers.



And all that talk about cloaked paladin this and fallen paladin that, there's nothing special going on. None of them are fallen, and the two cloaked guys are just paladins with hoods up.

None fallen there, that's rather sure. Who needs an unreliable often quoted fighter without bonus feats? And the cloaks just so much remind people of Miko's appearence in the beginning. And Belkar on stilts ;)
Though I wouldn't keep my hood up when about to face a dangerous enemy. Bad for field of vision in general. Yeah, I guess it's for drawing variety, too.

[warmachine]

Xykon appears to be suicidal (meaning wants to have his body destroyed).
Though Xykon has powerful magic, Paladins have Divine Protection, making it harder to use magic on them. Clerics and Paladins have good HP, making them hard to take down. Too many will still be standing after a few Meteor Storms. Clerics have good spells for countering all manner of magic tricks that do get through and magic tricks to throw back, including use of Dispel Magic. That Overland Flight spell won't last long. Even if the flight doesn't get dispelled, tricks such as summoned, flying creatures carrying Silenced trinkets will make Xykon's life difficult.

Though Xykon is too powerful to be turned, Clerics and Paladins can deal direct, damage to undead by touching with Lay on Hands and healing spells and the Sapphire Guard are willing to fight to the death.

Up against a large number of hardcases with no critical weaknesses, good magic, a reliable means to deal damage and the will to do do. Is Xykon nuts?

[Albion]

That one paladin looks like a bustier Miko.

[Fingolfin]

Wow, talking about a small cliffhanger, good thing we're getting next comic soon. That sapphire guards sure looks impressive.

Great usage of perspectives here, well done.

[Grimoa]

As noone seems to have it said before:

Go Xykon!!! :wink:

[Krytha]

O-Chul? OH-COOL!

[Hypothetical]

At least they didn't say, "Surrender!"

That's not Miko in the back. Miko usually wields two swords (as, apparently, do several of the Sapphire Guard). Cool axe the the blue-haired girl in the front has. Also, the guy in the way back has some kind of magic sword. I wonder if they arranged themselves lowest level first, highest level nearest the throne?

Um, niether of the two cloaked Pallys ( assuming that they are pallys at all) are shown wielding any kind of weapons at all. So how can you make a detirmination based on that?

Some other points....

There are at least 3 magic wielders in the battle....2 are obvious...flying guy, and the dude on the stairs. However, there is a third Magic Wielder, hidden by the crowd. And I'm guessing that he/she is extremely powerful. Look at the bottom left hand of the stairs. There is a huge emination of the type that all of the Magic Wielders seen so far have had around thier hands. Except that this particular emination extends far beyond any of the other ones we have seen, outside of V herself.

That's not an Axe that the one pally is using...it's a Halberd. The distinctive blade section is unmistakable. That's a good thing...the extra reach will come in handy...

The unfixed window that :belkar: and :miko: fell through is just too dam funny to pass up. After the trial tOOTS went on an extended quest, and yet AC didn't have enough funds to fix a simple window? I see extreme mismanagement here, or else a tax base that is streched to it's limit just keeping the city in order. OK, I'm done for this post......

[fractal]

It's too bad the 8th floor didn't turn out to be the anti-magic cellblock. Would have been fun to see Xykon bust in, fall to the ground, and get swarmed by guards with billy clubs.

[Hypothetical]

OK, next post....

So, what's the deal with Grey sword dude? I don't mean Magical Sword guy, but the other one.

On the left hand of the stairs, there is a guy holding a sword that has a grey blade. It's the only grey blade in the scene that doesn't have a magical aura around it.

I get the feeling this guy might just end up being important in some way. If nothing else, I hope he doesn't die a Punk-A$$ death....

[Lilt]

All of the paladins now have a surprise round, some may also go before Xykon (if he doesn't have Moment of Prescience).

I count around 39 sapphire guard in the picture (didn't double check, probably a bit off)
39 vials of holy water deal an average of 195 damage to undead
Your average 20th level lich is going to have 130hp (d12s, no con mod)

Some may miss, but even then they're likely to do 1 point of damage from scatter. Others may have more efficient ways to harm Xykon (Charging Smite will probably overcome DR, etc)

All we have to hope is that the ones with items visible in their hands have quick-draw, so they can quick-draw the flasks :wink:

[nocker]

Oh man, this is gonna be a slaughter. :smalleek:

I figure all these guys probably think that dying in the line of duty is a great honor, but I still bet they're all gonna feel a lot of terror and dread when Xykon kills them. :smalleek: I really feel sorry for them.

You shouldn't. They're all immune to fear.

In before ninja'ed.

[Haedrian]

Haedrian's theory

Xy beats up half the pallies, then :miko: pops in... and they have a sorta "final battle" between them.

[Drager]

I figure all these guys probably think that dying in the line of duty is a great honor, but I still bet they're all gonna feel a lot of terror and dread when Xykon kills them.


Nah they are paladins and thus Immune to Fear.

well someone got there before me...

[Khoran]

THat being said.....

The non-striped cloaked Pally is Miko.
Miko is still in Jail, I have a feeling that her escaping would be a big deal, especially right now. I mean, can you imagine what would happen.

Evil army is assulting the city and a Fallen Paladin guilty of Regicide escapes from Prison. Miko, under most circomstances, would be either recaptured or executed, depending of if they were able to subdue her or not. Partially because she is an escaped convict, partily because she might fall even farther (Become a Blackguard) and become a bigger threat. She's guilty of Regicide and has most likely been charged with treason. They probobly are keeping a close eye on her, and if she manages to escape, it seems flat out hard to believe that word wouldn't spread and in a situation like in the Throne Room, they'd probobly order both the cloak figures to remove their hood to confirm that there wasn't a traitor in their midsts who may betray the entire city. (I doubt they were all informed of the entire situation of how Miko fell, just that she killed Lord Shojo and now she is fallen and locked up.)

Sorry for the rant, but Miko is no where in that picture.

[Lilt]

OK, next post....

So, what's the deal with Grey sword dude? I don't mean Magical Sword guy, but the other one.

On the left hand of the stairs, there is a guy holding a sword that has a grey blade. It's the only grey blade in the scene that doesn't have a magical aura around it.

I get the feeling this guy might just end up being important in some way. If nothing else, I hope he doesn't die a Punk-A$$ death....Perhaps it's a cold-iron weapon?

[FlawedParadigm]

Okay, I'm a loser for counting, but the Sapphire Guard has to win. Why?

There's exactly 42 defenders. :op

[Freelance Henchman]

Since Xykon is fighting a cartload of Paladins now: Can positive energy damage from Lay on Hands be resisted with Spell Resistance?

[Algrim Wubble]

The big thing here is numbers.

These are probably the best of the Sapphire Guard, why? They the ones guarding the ultimate target of the lich. Hinjo knew Xykon was going to head here so he wouldnlt have the new recruits standing around the throne.

Plus Xyons used up a bunch of spells (least 2 fingers of death and a meteor swarm on Roy, maybe extras?)

Now, if we assume these are 10th ish level paladins/clerics/mages and there's 42+ of them.... honestly 1 20th level (or thereabouts) lich doesnlt stand a hope in hell of going toe to toe with them all. If there are any paladins even approaching Miko's level/power good bet they here too.

(Now that being said power of plot trumps all so the Giant could pull a miracle and Xykon wastes them all in a round)

[Khoran]

Since Xykon is fighting a cartload of Paladins now: Can positive energy damage from Lay on Hands be resisted with Spell Resistance?

I'm not 100% sure, but I would say yes. Cure Spells offer SR, but are marked as (Harmless), so I would think that this would also apply to Lay on Hands. However, Lay on Hands is also a (SP) ability, and therefore not exactly a spell, so that makes it a little harder to say it with absolute confidence.

[Nerd_Paladin]

I was wondering where all the damn Paladins were.

Xykon's virtual invicibility is starting to annoy me, if he waltzes out of this one my BS detector is going to overload.

[Psychomancer]

"Sapphire Guard! Tonight we dine in HELL!"

Xykon is going to butcher these guys. But it'll make a hell of a story, and someone is bound to make a movie about it once the tech becomes available in OotS land.

[jimmr12]

omg that is just awesome

i knew the sapphire guard would be there this is going to be an awesome series of strips

even if xykon somehow cant handle them for long that necrophiliac girl is gonna be there with undead backup

:xykon: Flesh. . . eww. . . *shivers*

[Rat_Summoner]

I believe the scales have been tipped in Azure City's favor at least a little. I love it when evil gets all cocky and then good shows up with a kick-awesome army..................This is gonna be awesome............:belkar:

[LordVader]

Pwned. Just... Pwned.

[phlip]

All they need to do is knock his head off and toss him into the gate

Nah, when they did that before, it was the big fancy sigil at the top of the gate that did him in... and it was Dorukan that put that sigil there (see strip #277 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)). The Azure City gate doesn't have that kind of protection.

[Asarth]

Excellent comic.

I don't have time to read the thread, so this may have been mentioned, that I like all the little details. The other window had lots of wooden boards nailed to it, from the Belkar vs. Miko thing when the OOTS was first in Azure City. And all the pretty different colored swords, like O-chul's gray-hilted one. Lots of nice looking paladins and clerics(?). Take your time with the next comic, I can wait. for a while.

[ladysekhmetka]

I'm probably going to be ninja'd, but the Lay on Hands is a supernatural ability, per the PHB in my lap, and thus not subject to Spell Resistance.

If they can make it past his DR though, Smite would probably be a better choice. Most of the Lich's SA a paladin would be immune too or mostly immune to due to the high saving throws of a pally.

[Dausuul]

I'm probably going to be ninja'd, but the Lay on Hands is a supernatural ability, per the PHB in my lap, and thus not subject to Spell Resistance.

If they can make it past his DR though, Smite would probably be a better choice. Most of the Lich's SA a paladin would be immune too or mostly immune to due to the high saving throws of a pally.

The problem is making it through his DR. 15/bludgeoning and magic is rough, and most of the paladins have swords. Lay on Hands is a much better bet... if Xykon stays on the ground. Don't see why he would, however.

I'm going to go against the apparent trend here and say that Xykon should, by the rules, be quite capable of annihilating the paladins. I highly doubt many of them are 10th-level; more likely 6th to 8th. And even if they are 10th, a couple of horrid wiltings would thin out their ranks pretty fast.

Xykon is a 20th-level caster, guys. And a lich. He's well into "broken" territory. I could quite easily make a 20th-level lich sorceror that could wipe the floor with a hundred 10th-level paladins.

[Orchestration]

I count 41 Saphire Guard, I am guessing rangeing from level 8-12?

Xykon is around 18-20? Lets say 19. He should have 2 (or 3 I cant remember) level 9 spells being able to cast about 3-5 a day? Having already cast 1. I am guessing (as someone who plays a sorcerer) his other spell is Mordikien's Disjunction (sp). He could have Weird or Wail of the Banshee however.

Then he also probally has Spells like Horrid Wilting and Chain Lightning, if he casts Mord's he is gonna rip most of magic enchantment out of that room (Bye bye glowing weapons) then a few Horrid Wiltings will really rip the Paladins appart with some Chain Lightnings to finish them off.

But lets also look at this from a DM's point of view! A DM would have probally set up this encounter to have the OotS in the room with the guards and scaled the battle along those lines.... Of course due to the failure of the PC's they are not there.

So I doubt the poor Paladin's have much chane :smallannoyed: I could be wrong though, as I play Paladins aswell as Sorcerers and just wouldn't wanna see that many Paladins die :smallfrown: And I hate seeing the bad guy win like that.

I think the kek to winning here is for Xykon to get dispelled and lose his flying ablity, if they can surround and graple him he wont stand as much of a chane.

[Kilbia]

And next strip we see the results of 42 readied actions going off. :smallbiggrin:

[Necromas]

I REALLY hope most of the sapphire guard lives, they're so freaking cool. They should at least chase him off and force him to go in with his army, giving OOTS time to kill him.

[Shadow8472]

And I happend to be listening to the climax of Holst's Mars theme when I read this comic. Very fitting.

Heh...yeah very very fitting

Rich- Glad you're not dead. Feel better

And yeah I think that's Miko up by the throne. I'm wondering if that pendant isn't a pendant of smite evil.

[happy_emi]

Mmm I think Xykon will beat them all...
Since Giant remarks that the "element of surprise has been completely blown", he wants we think that Xykon hasn't think well about entering in the throne room... But Xykon is smart... He will find a way to win :)

[LtPowers]

Xykon is a 20th-level caster, guys. And a lich. He's well into "broken" territory. I could quite easily make a 20th-level lich sorceror that could wipe the floor with a hundred 10th-level paladins.


100 well-prepared, intelligently played paladins?


Powers &8^]

[GKBeetle]

I think that Roy falling has turned me into a pessimist, as I'm predicting that every one of those paladins is gonna get slaughtered. Xykon is just too powerful. Maybe I'm overestimating him, but I just don't think he's dumb enough to do something like that unless he was sure he could handle all those paladins. I don't know if anybody is taking bets, but my money is on Xykon.

[Jaltum]

I count 41 Saphire Guard, I am guessing rangeing from level 8-12?

Way too high, I think. They were releasing any prisoners over level 5 out of desperation. Level 12 is almost as high as the OotS, and if they had anyone who could do what, say, Belkar can do, they'd be insane to not have him out there making his own heap of hobgoblins.

I'd be surprised if the average level in that room was any higher than eight.

Not including Xykon, obviously.


But lets also look at this from a DM's point of view! A DM would have probally set up this encounter to have the OotS in the room with the guards and scaled the battle along those lines.... Of course due to the failure of the PC's they are not there.

I'm not so sure about that. I've begun to think that all though the OotS are PCs, they aren't the PCs--that is, PC status is something certain people in the OotS world enjoy, not exclusive to these particular adventurers.

Xykon and Redcloak's adventures in the good-infested towers seemed to be a little evil mini-campaign; remember what Xykon said about the limited number of good-aligned monsters to choose from?

[XtheYeti]

This is going to make my week, rock on Giant

[Username]

PCs tend to overlook what NPCs might be capable of, as often shown by how the OotS often ignores NPCs. However, as also shown in this comic, NPCs arn't always gonna be fodder, or unimportant.

There are a few ways the paladins could win this:
1.Drop an antimagic field on Xykon, blam, there goes all his offensive abilitys, he now has nothing but his DR to rely on for saving him. The sapphire guard does appear to have at least one decently powerful spellcaster there.
2.Massive lay on hands spam, overload him with positive energy, I imagine all those paladins get a surprise round, and they possibly readied actions to attack the moment Xykon showed up.
3.Sheer luck, making all their saves, minimal damage, etc.

Edit:If I were in charge of those defenders and knew a very high level lich was coming I'd give everyone bludgeoning weapons and have every spellcaster capable of doing so ready an anti-magic field to disable him the moment he reveals himself. Spellcasters are powerful, but when they get cocky they can be overwhelmed.



I think this is a chance for a cliche to be broken and have the NPCs NOT be fodder for once.

[SaiKar]

Better late than never.

That battle group of Paladins is pretty badass, which is why this is sort of a sad strip, as they're very likely to just get massacred. Really though I'm starting to get sort of sick of nigh-invincible Xykon with an infinite number of useful spells for every situation. I love him as a character but nothing ever threatening him is getting a bit old. Even Roy was only a toy, and he's probably one of the highest level people in the city.

On another note, I think it's sort of sad that everyone was freaking out over the late strip. I respect the Giant but I never suspected his life was in danger. And Giant man, we understand if you're feeling under the weather, but reliability of updates is the best tool a webcomic artist has. Next time, before you get some sleep, just drop us a quick note to say what's up.

[Eva]

There are 41 paladins, by my count (and I counted a few times!).

I wonder what level they are.

And what level Xykon is.

Edit: Nevermind, others got there first.

[Blaznak]

Man, you just don't know WHICH way this strip is going to go from day to day. A fun read!

[Shara_Littlebottom]

Oooh. It's like http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0105.html (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0105.html) 's evil twin!!


Good observation. :-D

Interesting how the Giant's artwork has become more polished over time.

[Azukar]

Not sure if I even dare say this... There's been some speculation on the cloaked figure. Personally I think it's just another SG member Rich included to provide some variation. But if it does turn out to be something special my guess is it will turn out to be...
...

...

Roy.

[NeonRonin]

That... is a LOT of paladins.

Good job, Rich, and please don't push yourself too hard; for this kind of quality we can afford to wait.

By the way... I had to laugh at the fact they still haven't fixed the window Miko broke when she was trying to slaughter Belkar during the trial. That was HOW many weeks of gametime ago? And, of course, the Save the Paladins fund was a nice touch. (Though deducting the donation from your taxes is a moot point if you're too dead to pay taxes...)

[Malhavok]

Me thinks they won't last long without a PC rescue.

DUN DUN DUN . . . .

[musicnerd]

Sooo glad you're felling better! Don't push yourself if you're still not felling well.

[Eva]

I will bet:

That it will be close. Because it just wouldn't be fun if it were easy, unless someone had a special trick. It has to be the kind of battle that, if Xykon rolls well, he'll win, and if the paladins roll well, they'll win. Of course, "well" could vary between the two, but it can't be *unwinnable* for either side.

[Deuce]

They've had time to prepare, a lot of resources and they know a Lich is heading for that room. I think they should have gone with a hand pump, a hose and a 300 gallon vat of Holy Water.

:xykon: "I'm melting! I'm melting!"

[Eladrinstar]

Those paladin's all look so cool. It sort of like in Revenge of the Sith, when everyone knew the Jedi would die but they also knew they were going to see the Jedi do some awesome stuff before they croaked.

[happy_emi]

Well from story point-of-view, Xykon should win now... let's think about that... if they stop Xykon now, it's the end of the comic.

No, Xykon will get what he is looking for. OOTS will not stop him until the very end ;)

[moleytov]

I see a lot of slashing wepaons and not very many (read 0) bludgeoning/impact weapons...

not good.

[Deuce]

Well from story point-of-view, Xykon should win now... let's think about that... if they stop Xykon now, it's the end of the comic.

No, Xykon will get what he is looking for. OOTS will not stop him until the very end ;)

Actually, I see it the exact opposite, If Xykon wins here, he either screws up with the Snarl and frags the world or he succeeds and gains total power - both of which pretty much end the story. If he goes down now, he pops back to Redcloak's holy symbol, and they still have two more gates to race to.

[Drerek]

Sweeeeeeeet.

[Helgraf]

All of the paladins now have a surprise round, some may also go before Xykon (if he doesn't have Moment of Prescience).

I count around 39 sapphire guard in the picture (didn't double check, probably a bit off)
39 vials of holy water deal an average of 195 damage to undead
Your average 20th level lich is going to have 130hp (d12s, no con mod)

Some may miss, but even then they're likely to do 1 point of damage from scatter. Others may have more efficient ways to harm Xykon (Charging Smite will probably overcome DR, etc)

All we have to hope is that the ones with items visible in their hands have quick-draw, so they can quick-draw the flasks :wink:

I don't see your basis for determining that surprise round. Xykon was clearly well aware the paladins would be in there based on his opening statement when he crashed through the window.

Snappy attack orders by O-Chuul notwithstanding, it's basic initiative time.

[Fire_Wolf]

Hmmm. I'm not convinced that Xykon will just kill all the paladins and win. It doesn't seem right for Rich to put in so much effort into a super-impressive gang of paladins only to entirely wipe them out.

And, um, some of them might be higher level than the OotS. Bear in mind Miko kicked their butts twice, single handedly; so there's a good chance others among them might be nearly as powerful. Especially O-Chul.

[Eon_Omega]

About the No 3.0 Stuff, Wasn't a Fly Spell Houseruled in by a certain imitation drow?

Paladins will at least do some damage, hopefully.

Speaking of which, on a completely unrelated note, those in the backround are probably wizard/clerics or some such. In the case of the criminal frontrunner dread necro/mystic theurge ass who joined "Team Evil", she was at least what, lvl 8? wiz 3/dread necro 4(perhaps cleric 3)/Mystic theurge 4, if she was wasting her non-domain slot on xykon to use that inflict critical. Seeing as how they were able to imprison her for her acts of unnatural wizardry, and Using that as reference, I'd say they'd be defending the last bastion of the sapphire with stronger characters, so at least lvl 10+. Geez.

So, heading off in another direction:
The soldiers that V buffed to guard the gap were all lvl 5. Going off of this, the General must have been perhaps lvl 7-8. Just going off of common sense.

Miko was able to trump the OotS, albeit in a rather railroady manner, but all the same, she did manage to defeat them.

She was the strongest of their order, and she didn't use Smite Evil to defeat The OotS, presumably.


Then there's hinjo, who is at least lvl 4. Rather higher than that, we shall presume, for he is able to both take hobgoblins down with ease, and is the second strongest in their order, according to miko.

Now, let's move on.

249 clerics out of 314 are 3rd level or lower. So the rest are higher. we know that much.

There's gotta be some in the throne room.

And ya can't forget the fact that they've got cloaked people. I mean, that's like +10 to your mystification rating, and +10 to convenient changes in class levels!

[Dausuul]

100 well-prepared, intelligently played paladins?


Powers &8^]

If I get to prepare and intelligently play the lich? Sure. Of course, there's nothing to suggest that these paladins are either well-prepared (they've only had a day or so to get ready, so it's not like they're all going to be armed with +1 undead bane greatclubs) or particularly intelligently played. I mean, look how they're clumped up, when they knew they were going to be facing a high-level caster.

[Vulion]

*breaths a sigh of relief*

Was really worried there for a second about ya, Rich.

Anyhoo, I think some people might be over estimating Xykon just a slight bit, mostly becuase he's already used up a fair share of spells, but I'm still a rookie to AD&D, so I'm not sure.

[HotBlackDeisato]

I think I speak for (or possibly echo) many people when I say that the last panel of 447 was worth the wait.

[factotum]

And, um, some of them might be higher level than the OotS. Bear in mind Miko kicked their butts twice, single handedly; so there's a good chance others among them might be nearly as powerful. Especially O-Chul.

The only problem there is, Miko *also* managed to wipe the floor with Hinjo, even after she'd lost all her paladin powers *and* had been fighting with Roy for several rounds. Miko is clearly a lot more powerful than any other member of the Sapphire Guard, because AFAIK Hinjo is himself one of the highest-level members of the Guard--certainly the way he's carving through hobboes out on the field suggests he's pretty powerful in his own right.

[Dausuul]

*breaths a sigh of relief*

Was really worried there for a second about ya, Rich.

Anyhoo, I think some people might be over estimating Xykon just a slight bit, mostly becuase he's already used up a fair share of spells, but I'm still a rookie to AD&D, so I'm not sure.

Not really. He's a sorceror. He gets at least 6 spells per day of each level, and more likely 7, and he hasn't actually cast very many yet--maybe 5-6 fingers of death, one overland flight, one greater invisibility, and one meteor swarm. He's nowhere near running out of spells.

[Duke of URL]

I count 41 Saphire Guard, I am guessing rangeing from level 8-12?
Using d20srd.org's encounter calculator, and the following assumptions:

40 Paladins/Associates
Paladins/Associates Level 8-12
Even level distributions (8 each from levels 8-12)
Xykon level 20

It comes up with:

Party Level (for Xykon): 16
Encounter Level: 21
Average XP: 0
Challenge Rating: Overpowering
Treasure Value: 86872.7

[moleytov]

AFAIK Hinjo is himself one of the highest-level members of the Guard--certainly the way he's carving through hobboes out on the field suggests he's pretty powerful in his own right Well, him and his puppy ;)
also, how many buff spells could the few casters in the room have managed, a considerable amount I would imagine.

[Tach13]

Enjoyed the comic, and glad to see it. Worth the wait, and hope everything's OK.
Anyone think the grey people might be Grey Guards? Saphire Guard must have need for character's like that occasionally.

[Zynex]

One question... Where's Lien? :smallconfused:

Anyway, be they annihilated or triumphant, next strip will be a blast! having the Giant announce a double strip kinda reminds me of V's dismissal action a few strips back. Definitely a battle to be reckoned with.

Oh, and glad to see that the author is A-OK. He doesn't usually get late comic entrees without stating it a few days in advance, and i guess that's why a lot of people here got worried, including me. :smalleek:

Also, the Sapphire Guard reminds me of Leonidas and 300. For honor, duty and Azure city!!! :smallfurious:

[drewnchick]

The funniest thing about that comic is Xykon crashing through a window right next to the one recently boarded up. Someone in that room is thinking, "Well crap!" I dunno. The subtle, implied humor in that one panel made me laugh out loud.

[moonbiter]

So, is Roy's dad still stuck in that magic circle in the palace, or did he go back to the Outer Planes?

[One Skunk Todd]

I think by the laws of comedy that third window has got to get smashed at some point. :) Probably when Redcloak and Xykon are standing around talking. Somebody should start a poll of who will break it.

And stupidest idea ever:

The cloaked paladins are Miko and Shojo. The whole Miko killing Shojo incident was staged to fool Xykon and all the nobles who were going after Shojo.

I wonder if Xykon likes cats. Maybe he'll find Mr. Scruffy.

[Dausuul]

I think that Roy falling has turned me into a pessimist, as I'm predicting that every one of those paladins is gonna get slaughtered. Xykon is just too powerful. Maybe I'm overestimating him, but I just don't think he's dumb enough to do something like that unless he was sure he could handle all those paladins. I don't know if anybody is taking bets, but my money is on Xykon.
I'm sort of reversing myself here, but based on past experience, Xykon actually is dumb enough to do something like that. Massive overconfidence has always been his main weak point.

If Xykon loses--and it could well happen--it will very likely be because he gets overconfident and decides to toy with the paladins instead of just smashing them.


PCs tend to overlook what NPCs might be capable of, as often shown by how the OotS often ignores NPCs. However, as also shown in this comic, NPCs arn't always gonna be fodder, or unimportant.

There are a few ways the paladins could win this:
1.Drop an antimagic field on Xykon, blam, there goes all his offensive abilitys, he now has nothing but his DR to rely on for saving him. The sapphire guard does appear to have at least one decently powerful spellcaster there.

You can't "drop an antimagic field" on Xykon. Antimagic field is centered on the caster. Which makes it kind of hard to use against an airborne foe, since it shuts down your own flying magic.

Of course, they could have a cleric with a high Strength cast AMF, then use a catapult or something to throw him at Xykon and try to grapple...


2.Massive lay on hands spam, overload him with positive energy, I imagine all those paladins get a surprise round, and they possibly readied actions to attack the moment Xykon showed up.

They lose their readied actions, then, since Xykon flew in through the window. You can't lay on hands what you can't reach. And why would they get a surprise round? It's not like Xykon didn't know they were there.


3.Sheer luck, making all their saves, minimal damage, etc.

Edit:If I were in charge of those defenders and knew a very high level lich was coming I'd give everyone bludgeoning weapons and have every spellcaster capable of doing so ready an anti-magic field to disable him the moment he reveals himself. Spellcasters are powerful, but when they get cocky they can be overwhelmed.

Setting aside the AMF issue, this is Xykon's most likely downfall... assuming that he's invincible.

[DomaDoma]

Whoa, is that Crystal at the bottom-left corner? If so, I can't wait to see the story on that one.

[Freelance Henchman]

I suppose Xykon expected the Paladins to be in the throne room? Right? If yes, he's bound to have prepared himself 'specially.

BTW: I'm sort of LOLing at the way some posters seem all nervous about The Giant not posting exactly on time, like he's a dope dealer who didnt turn up right on time. "Gawd, where is he!? Should've been here *minutes* ago!!"

[Priceless_Ming]

I like their chances. Besides, it looks like they let Miko out and her two twin sisters.

[Vox]

Ok.

By my count, there are approximately 42 people in the room (could be off...)

Five of them are clerics, leaving 36 paladins.

This being the Sapphire Guard, there are no lower-level paladins in this force...the very best of their order, excluding Hinjo himself and Miko, are gathered here.

So what happens when 36 paladins use Smite Evil at once?

One. Mad. Lich. Dies.

Seriously, how many of them can he take out in one round? Ten, maybe? That's still 26 heavy attacks, exclusive of clerical abilities, that he's going to get hit with. These are PALADINS. They are potentialy THE BEST CLASS for fighting evil beings....that's basically their JOB. I think our favorite lich may have overextended himself here....soloing the Sapphire Guard has about as much chance of succeeding as, well, the Order of the Stick taking on Xykon...oh, wait.....

The power of the plot will inevitably prevail, regardless of the actual odds.

Right.

[PerryTatchett]

I spyes 41 paladins.

Also, a cloaked paladin? I see two.

Edit: I meant 41 people, not all paladins.

[Doug Lampert]

IF he doesn't just wipe them all with a Wail (and he may not; if he's a sorcerer he might not have taken that spell, or he may decide to have 'fun'. In addition, paladin saves are good) then it'll still be a horribly difficult fight for the paladins. Smite Evil *might* be able to knock through DR; he probably has prohibitive SR for their casters, unfortunately.

I wonder if the OOTS-verse uses homeruled 3.0 DR/Magic rules? It'd make sense with Roy's +5 weapon being so good against everyone.Every Paladin that gets close should use her Lay on Hands for the day against Xylon. Touch attack. Nothing much stops it. Su ability so spell resistance doesn't apply and there is no save listed so there isn't one.

That's a LOT of damage, and they can Smite Evil on it TOO since it is an attack!

[Omellette]

First off, glad you're feeling closer to snuff, Rich -- don't kill yourself for our sakes. :-)

Now, everything that's been said is all well and good -- but if we've learned nothing over the years, it's that Rich is the absolute MASTER at misdirection. As a result, I've tried to particularly pay attention to little details that seem out of place. And one thing leaps to my attention in this strip:

The :mitd: has a very curious line when Redcloak is spying on Xykon:

"I wonder if Xykon has any sisters, too..."

Now, this is just a great "throw-away" line. It states one thing clearly: Xykon has a brother. It also states another thing: That the Mystery In the Dark knows it, and presumably knows who it is.

So, I wondering who this is... And wouldn't it be ironic is it's MITD himself?

What a great little line...

[Orbital]

I haven't played D&D in, oh, 20 years. Still, I see a whole whack of paladins, a few spell casters, and a couple of mysterious cloaked figures. I have to agree with warmachine: Is Xykon nuts?

I think Xykon has something up his sleeve...

[Dausuul]

First off, glad you're feeling closer to snuff, Rich -- don't kill yourself for our sakes. :-)

Now, everything that's been said is all well and good -- but if we've learned nothing over the years, it's that Rich is the absolute MASTER at misdirection. As a result, I've tried to particularly pay attention to little details that seem out of place. And one thing leaps to my attention in this strip:

The :mitd: has a very curious line when Redcloak is spying on Xykon:

"I wonder if Xykon has any sisters, too..."

Now, this is just a great "throw-away" line. It states one thing clearly: Xykon has a brother. It also states another thing: That the Mystery In the Dark knows it, and presumably knows who it is.

So, I wondering who this is... And wouldn't it be ironic is it's MITD himself?

What a great little line...

The "sister" line is in reference to this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html). It's just the MitD being clueless again.

[PerryTatchett]

Um... I'm not sure that means Xykon has a brother. I think it just means that MiTD still thinks the three fake Xykon's are his brothers.

[itliaf]

What? No clever title?


Seriously though, awesome splash page. The fact that each paladin looks different totally makes me believe they stand a fighting chance (Faceless chooms have a poor track record standing against Xykon).

On the other hand, I'm starting to have Star Wars: Episode 2 + 3 flashbacks. So many doomed Jedi. Maybe one of them really is Xykon's sister :smalltongue:

[Valley]

But you have forgotten, the most powerful being in the city of Azure City, will come to defend the Gate.

Mr. Scruffy!

What? Why are you laughing? White Cats are smart and dangerous. The only member of SPECTRE to survive all those James Bond attacks was the White Cat!

[Irbis]

Excuse me? To everyone thinking that SG might win:

You've failed to realize some very valid points :)

1. No smite evil/lay on hands. Sorry. Doesn't work on airborne target you can't reach. And even if he landed, they would be able to surround him with 8 people, tops.
2. Paladins level 10+? Excuse me?? Hinjo was second most poverful paladin in SG, an he was about level 9. General was level 6-7. If anything, they are about lev 5-7.
3. All swords, no maces/hammers. 'Nuff said.
3. To anyone thinking Xykon expended his spells - if calculations in the other tread are correct, he has at least 8 more meteor swarms alone. Even if he had only two, he would still kill most of them. He has propably 60-100 more weaker spells/abilities. Spell resistance, extremely good saves, so they won't even make a significant dent in his arsenal. Plus, he hasn't prepared his spells - he can cast anything that would best suit him.
4. Summoning spells - he was supposed to summon something decisive. Basing on my NWN experience, casters of his level can summon big, old dragons and very powerful devils, which alone would have sufficed. Or several dozen of things as strong as anyone in the room. I don't know if these spell were in 'core' D&D, but if he and redcloak had access to these monster manuals with Eof&F, DK & Huecuva, they had access to some very nasty monsters :)
5. Good saves aren't going to save anyone from spells with DC 20+ points better than your maximum. level 7, hell, even 11 isn't going to save against such great difference in levels.
6. What suprise round? If anything, Xykon suprised them :)
7. Vials of water - isn't that improvised weapon with -4 to hit? I wouldn't be suprised if he has defense in high 30ies so they won't be able to hit him. Oops :)
Although I liked the idea with the hand pump - that would be thier best option :D
8. ECL 20+ Lich. Badass, too :D

[Jaltum]

Now, this is just a great "throw-away" line. It states one thing clearly: Xykon has a brother. It also states another thing: That the Mystery In the Dark knows it, and presumably knows who it is.

So, I wondering who this is... And wouldn't it be ironic is it's MITD himself?

What a great little line...

The MitD thinks the other skeletons on the field are Xykon's twin brothers. It's nattering on obliviously based on a misconception that was previously established. Which is all it ever does, with rare exception.

You're trying way too hard to find secret clues.

[Omellette]

The MitD thinks the other skeletons on the field are Xykon's twin brothers. It's nattering on obliviously based on a misconception that was previously established. Which is all it ever does, with rare exception.

You're trying way too hard to find secret clues.

Haha! You're probably right -- my bad!

*smacks forehead*

[Bel_Bel]

Hope you're all better Rich, and thanks for getting the comic up.

Best wishes! :smallsmile:

[Crabapple]

kill them all bahahahaha :xykon:

[KingMerv00]

Xykon will pwn them all.

Time stop + 4 meteor swarms = pwnage

[Suri]

I'll stay up for the next strip, and awesome!
I like the pally dude with a flying boots, leetage.
This may be a fight Xykon possibly can't win, there are alot of Clerics too, and most if not all of them can probably Turn Undead and all sorts of other Undead Slaying mumbo jumbo.
Go Sapphire guard, go! Woop Woop! :smallbiggrin:

[Dausuul]

Xykon will pwn them all.

Time stop + 4 meteor swarms = pwnage

Sorry, doesn't work. You can't affect other people during a time stop.

Of course, you can still, say, time stop + 4 cloudkills...

[cripple]

Did anybody notice that they never got round to fixing that window Miko and Belkar smashed through (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0284.html)? Good joke.

AND MitD is still wondering about Xykon's siblings.

AND Xykon continues to mess up the plan so he can have some fun. :p He may be outnumbered four scores to one, but I doubt many of those paladins are above level ten. Also, they're not PCs. There's going to be a slaughterfest shortly.

I saw that too and dove into the strips trying to find where the window had broken. Love it!

[warmachine]

In the fourth panel, Xykon's stick legs cannot be seen. Although his legs could be tucked into his robes, this is such an annoying position for no function, it is implausibe that he would do this.

Oh, alright. It's a lame nitpick.

[Irbis]

Point nr 9: Turn Undead - not gonna happen :-P

Unless they can roll natural 20ies on demand, and many of them :)

[KingMerv00]

Sorry, doesn't work. You can't affect other people during a time stop.

Of course, you can still, say, time stop + 4 cloudkills...

I seem to recall that spread effects take place after time stop ends. I don't have the PHB infront of me at the moment.

Either way:

Time stop + 4 high level spells = pwnage

[valis]

OK, Wednesday's comic is now up.

There will be an additional comic later tonight (Friday) and it will be a double-length strip. Don't expect it until around midnight, though.

The comic is great. I'm sorry about your illness.

[nusigf]

Interesting that they're letting a Fallen Paladin help defend the Gate (check out the figure on the left side near the throne)....

Nah, Fallen have gray shirts/mail (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0419.html). That one has white.

[Dausuul]

Point nr 9: Turn Undead - not gonna happen :-P

Unless they can roll natural 20ies on demand, and many of them :)

Not even then, actually. The best you can do on Turn Undead is your level + 4. Add some magic items and I think you can manage your level + 9. Xykon is a lich, so he has turn resistance +4, so a 15th-level cleric loaded down with magic items could do it on a natural 20. No one lower than that would even have a chance.

[cripple]

All of the paladins now have a surprise round, some may also go before Xykon (if he doesn't have Moment of Prescience).

I count around 39 sapphire guard in the picture (didn't double check, probably a bit off)
39 vials of holy water deal an average of 195 damage to undead
Your average 20th level lich is going to have 130hp (d12s, no con mod)

Some may miss, but even then they're likely to do 1 point of damage from scatter. Others may have more efficient ways to harm Xykon (Charging Smite will probably overcome DR, etc)

All we have to hope is that the ones with items visible in their hands have quick-draw, so they can quick-draw the flasks :wink:

I count 41, including six spell casters.

[nusigf]

About the suspected fallen paladin aka Miko - no, don't think it's her. Body armour is white, cape looks like almost pale blue, and the hair style is too orderly for Miko. And it's a bit longer than Miko's hair, methinks. Uncanny lookalike, however, at least.

Wondering who's the hooded figure, of course. And that chap near the throne on the right looks like he might teach Xykon a bit about being badass, too. Of all the paladins in the room at least that one for sure does have a magic sword.

So there are 2 (TWO) hoodies in the room... one in purple, one in blue... Someone with a cold head, I suspect...

[chibibar]

but don't forget even the lowest paladin has healing touch (lay on hand) so the battle might last (of course it all depends on Rich) It could be an interesting epic battle (or a epic slaughter)

Edit: Ooo I just spotted an elven paladin!! :)

[Dangerflirt]

If only the sapphire guards knew the value of cheese...

an anti-magic field sculpted into a line is a powerful lich killer.

And with all of those tanks... They NEED to grapple him. No single caster can stand up to grapple checks, even if he was smart enough to contingency blink.

[Pronounceable]

As someone has said: The evil twin of page 105

I like it.

[MReav]

but don't forget even the lowest paladin has healing touch (lay on hand) so the battle might last (of course it all depends on Rich) It could be an interesting epic battle (or a epic slaughter)

Edit: Ooo I just spotted an elven paladin!! :)

Which one? If you're talking about the guy just under the winged boots guy, I think the guy behind him is simply holding a spear next to his head (because otherwise, he'd probably be a half elf at most)

Sweet comic though.

[V Junior]

But you have forgotten, the most powerful being in the city of Azure City, will come to defend the Gate.

Mr. Scruffy!

What? Why are you laughing? White Cats are smart and dangerous. The only member of SPECTRE to survive all those James Bond attacks was the White Cat!

-gasp- How could we forget????? White Cats are really high CR, I think they nearly top the Tarrusque (how do you spell it?) itself! Not to mention really powerful bite attacks, high Dex, size bonus to Hide checks (he could be anywhere!), ect ect!

Xykon just got himself very deep in the pig muck. The hecuva/EOFAF are too far away to help, and we've no death knight for team X. All we need is a hosepipe, Mr. Scruffy flanking and like 300 gallons of holy water!

[Bork The Fallen]

AAAAAhhhhh, Rich you Bastard!! Now I CAN'T THINK of anything else but the result of The Sapphire Guard VS. Xykon!!

(Or whatever that guy in white has about him)!!!

[Stonedef]

I count 41, including six spell casters.

Am I the only one rooting for Xykon? :)

[fangthane]

Excuse me? To everyone thinking that SG might win:

You've failed to realize some very valid points :)
So have you :)

1. No smite evil/lay on hands. Except of course some of them are flying.
2. Paladins level 10+? No real reference either way for the levels involved. Some few may be as powerful, or near it, as the Order, or they may all be lowbies. I seem to recall that having a prestige mount (like a dire wolf) as a Paladin does take a few extra levels though.
3. All swords, no maces/hammers. 'Nuff said. Yeah, this is just silly.
3. To anyone thinking Xykon expended his spells - if calculations in the other tread are correct, he has at least 8 more meteor swarms alone. Even if he had only two, he would still kill most of them. Weaker spells will have weaker saves, and Protection from Fire (and other similar spells) can make a big difference even with failed saves, in a room full of healers. Mass cures can help a lot to bolster survivors. Oh, and how many 3's do there really need to be? :smallbiggrin:
4. Summoning spells - I don't think I've ever seen Xykon summon anything. He might have some summoning ability, but he doesn't seem to care much about using it.
5. Good saves aren't going to save anyone from spells with DC 20+ points better than your maximum. Assuming a 20 charisma, Xykon's greatest possible DC would be 24, or 28 with Greater Focus. I doubt that any of the paladins has a -2/6 save penalty to anything, assuming a moderate d20 roll.
6. What suprise round? If anything, Xykon suprised them :) If I were DM, I'd say everyone's expecting mayhem, no surprise either way.
7. Vials of water - isn't that improvised weapon with -4 to hit? I wouldn't be suprised if he has defense in high 30ies so they won't be able to hit him. Oops :) Vials of holy water are a grenadelike thrown weapon which cause their damage to undead and splash of 1 point (believe reflex reduces to 0, been a while) on squares adjacent to a miss. Granted, if he ghostforms, they'd need to open the vial and pour it over him.

8. ECL 20+ Lich. Badass, too :D
Now that, I can't argue. :smallbiggrin: And I agree he'll win, but it'll be costly.
I doubt it'll happen but I envision his skull greeting Redcloak having used Still Spells to finish off the paladins once their LoH was spent.

[Cybaster]

Three words.

Circle of Death. XD

[Mummy king]

Awesome. That's every experienced paladin in the sapphire guard.

They're so screwed.

Also, where is Lien? I cannot see Lien!
There is one that looks like Lien with purple hair.

But no Lien!

[Mad Scientist]

Well, if equipment is anything to go by, those are some kickass paladins. I love the guy with the winged boots!

I hope that doesn't mean they will all be turned into kickass zombies! :smalleek: If they are, would it be in bad taste for the oots to loot their corpses? Can't you just picture Haley with the winged boots?

[One Skunk Todd]

Does the paladin closest to us, next to O'chul, lower left, have a little green hoop earring? Likely not important, I just can't make out what it is.

[Nathander]

I have to admit: up until now, I had not been especially impressed by Xykon (Redcloak, in my mind, easily trumped him as a good villain), but after the last few strips and with his one-liner towards the Paladins in this strip, has pushed him up a few ranks. Can't wait to see how it all plays out.


I suppose Xykon expected the Paladins to be in the throne room? Right? If yes, he's bound to have prepared himself 'specially.

I'd say he almost certainly did. In the panel where Redcloak is questioning why Xykon is intending to go into the throne room without waiting for the army, Xykon is shown looking through the window into the room, meaning he most certainly saw all the Paladins in there. Not only that, but before busting through the window, he states, "Time to have some fun", which doesn't bode well, as it means Xykon may already have the spells he's going to use to slaughter them in mind when he busted in (though, to be fair, that kind of preparation would be somewhat uncharacteristic of Xykon).

While I (unfortunately) have little doubt Xykon will slaughter the Paladins, I'm wondering how he'll do it. While we know he has high-level spells, some have been arguing he'll start using Meteor Swarm. And honestly, I can't imagine the hilarity that would ensue if he chose to do such. While I don't have the PHB open right in front of me, maybe someone can set me straight on this: wouldn't using Meteor Swarm in as cramped and small a space as the throne room basically be completely idiotic? I would think the area of effect for that spell would end up including Xykon, and if not, there's a good chance he would end up actually destroying the gate with the spell, which is what he's attempting to avoid so he can syphon power from it.

Of course, that may be how this whole event ends. Either Xykon inadvertently destroys the gate during his slaughter, or the remaining paladins at the end have been given orders to destroy the gate if things go to bad in order to keep Xykon from gaining it. While they'd be destroying the gate, which would definantely be a no-no, they'd be stopping the bigger threat, that being allowing a high-powered lich to gain even more power by syphoning the power of the Snarl into himself.

[jindra34]

So have you :)
Now that, I can't argue. :smallbiggrin: And I agree he'll win, but it'll be costly.
I doubt it'll happen but I envision his skull greeting Redcloak having used Still Spells to finish off the paladins once their LoH was spent.

you forgot one person who is in the room Eugene Greenhilt. I'm sure he would love another chance to fufill his blood oath. He is a powerful mage type person after all.

[Drakron]

you forgot one person who is in the room Eugene Greenhilt. I'm sure he would love another chance to fufill his blood oath. He is a powerful mage type person after all.

Yes, ghosts DO retain the spellcasting they had in life.

[Solara]

Great comic! Talk about a cliffhanger, (though at least we don't have to wait all weekend...) and that last panel is amazing. I spent several minutes just admiring all the cool paladin designs - it's really a shame that most (all?) of them are unlikely to survive.

Redcloak wasn't the only one wondering why Xykon's just heading straight into the throneroom alone, but the more I think about it the more sense it makes. Xykon doesn't really have to worry about dying after all, and if he can take the city's strongest defenders with him it shouldn't be too difficult for Redcloak to crush the remainder and just waltz in to occupy the place.

Though I wonder if trusting him so completely is such a good idea. Xykon will be completely helpless in his phylactery for awhile, and with a massive army at his disposal and a rift of unimaginable power to toy around with you have to wonder whether Redcloak will decide he's tired of being only second in command...

[TiamatRoar]

Xykon inadvertently destroys the gate during his slaughter,.

This speculation has come up often, so I figured I'd like to debunk it.

Redcloak's the one that inadverdently destroys gates, not Xykon. It was Redcloak who accidentally (allegedly) burnt down Lirian's gate. Xykon was actually pretty mad at Redcloak for that, so I doubt Xykon would be stupid enough to do it, himself. At least, not so blatantly.

[Irbis]

So have you :)

1. No smite evil/lay on hands. Except of course some of them are flying.
Exactly one. Which has to hit him with touch attack. And even if he does, so what? -10, -15 hp? Xykon's own touch attack is far more formidable, not to mention his spells, which probably will kill him at the same round.
2. Paladins level 10+? No real reference either way for the levels involved. Some few may be as powerful, or near it, as the Order, or they may all be lowbies. I seem to recall that having a prestige mount (like a dire wolf) as a Paladin does take a few extra levels though.
Miko was stronger than Roy, while Hinjo, who was stated to be second in levels only to her, was substantially weaker - level 9 at most. All of them are lower than Hinjo, with level 8 at most.
3. To anyone thinking Xykon expended his spells - if calculations in the other tread are correct, he has at least 8 more meteor swarms alone. Even if he had only two, he would still kill most of them. Weaker spells will have weaker saves, and Protection from Fire (and other similar spells) can make a big difference even with failed saves, in a room full of healers. Mass cures can help a lot to bolster survivors. Oh, and how many 3's do there really need to be? :smallbiggrin:
So what? He has lots of them to spare. And I wouldn't call level 7 & 8 spells weak :smallwink: Plus, mass healing at their level would be at most cure LW, which isn't going to help much. Besides, you can't heal dead by either loss of hp or losing their save vs death check.
4. Summoning spells - I don't think I've ever seen Xykon summon anything. He might have some summoning ability, but he doesn't seem to care much about using it.
He stated (one strip earlier) that he was supposed to summon something that would've altered tho course of an entire battle. Summon monster 8 & 9 anyone?
5. Good saves aren't going to save anyone from spells with DC 20+ points better than your maximum. Assuming a 20 charisma, Xykon's greatest possible DC would be 24, or 28 with Greater Focus. I doubt that any of the paladins has a -2/6 save penalty to anything, assuming a moderate d20 roll.
Erm, current estimates place him at 30+ charisma. This is moot, hovewer, because someone with about +10 save would make their check only 5% at roll of 2 against DC 28, unfortunately, which means that of 42 assembled 2-3 would make their save.
7. Vials of water - isn't that improvised weapon with -4 to hit? I wouldn't be suprised if he has defense in high 30ies so they won't be able to hit him. Oops :) Vials of holy water are a grenadelike thrown weapon which cause their damage to undead and splash of 1 point (believe reflex reduces to 0, been a while) on squares adjacent to a miss. Granted, if he ghostforms, they'd need to open the vial and pour it over him.
Exactly :smallbiggrin: That's why I said I liked the hand-pump idea :smalltongue:


By the way - how would in D&D game such pump with continuous line of water work? Like a bow? A grenadelike weapon?

[xyzchyx]

I count 41, including six spell casters.I only see 39 too.

7 on the steps to the throne.
2 in flight.
13 to the left of the guy in the blue visored helm, not including the guy behind him.
7 to the left of the purple-hooded figure up to and including the guy in the blue-visored helm
3 in the back ranks on the right
7 more in the foreground on the right

Total 39.

[Edit]: Okay... I see them all now. I was forgetting to count the purple-hooded figure directly... using it only as a marker to make it easier to group them and count. That makes 40. And the 41st one is in the back ranks on the extreme right, wearing a blue hooded cloak.

[wildwilly]

This fight should be awesome!

[Ghull_Ka]

Pwnage. Awesome.

[One Skunk Todd]

I only see 39 too.

7 on the steps to the throne.
2 in flight.
13 to the left of the guy in the blue visored helm, not including the guy behind him.
7 to the left of the purple-hooded figure up to and including the guy in the blue-visored helm
3 in the back ranks on the right
7 more in the foreground on the right

Total 39.

LOL and every time I count I get 40. :)

Edit: Actually I just counted again, very carefully and I get 41. Not sure where I was missing one before. Also, is there somebody right behind the girl with the green hair with sword and plain oval shield. She's standing right in the middle and Xykon's crown covers part of her foot. Looks like might be 42.

[jindra34]

i count 42.

[KingMerv00]

So i'm wrong about the time stop/meteor swarm combo then? I'll check the PHB when I get home but I'm curious now.

[jindra34]

So i'm wrong about the time stop/meteor swarm combo then? I'll check the PHB when I get home but I'm curious now.

your also forgeting Eugene. do you think he would let Xykon get of anything that would allow him to acheive more power

[MReav]

Because this is a desperation bit, with lots and lots of people with no fear, my tactics are as follows:

Lay on Hands combined with Smite attacks... Resolve all initial attacks with their BAB + Strength + Charisma for Charisma* Paladin Level
+ Paladin Level. Should chunk out a large portion of Xykon's no Con modified HP.

[KingMerv00]

your also forgeting Eugene. do you think he would let Xykon get of anything that would allow him to acheive more power

I don't think Eugene is powerful enough to be a threat. Besides, he is bound inside the circle right?

[Irbis]

Shall I bring my valid points table again, sections about attacking flying lich with DR 15 with touch attacks of max 8 paladins?

Not going to happen :)

[jindra34]

I don't think Eugene is powerful enough to be a threat. Besides, he is bound inside the circle right?

his spells are not though. at the very least he can counter and dispell Xykon. The circle is also in the throne room.

[Irbis]

Erm, he was illusionist with little offensive power. Remember, while younge and weaker Xykon killed his master Eugene was forcecaged spectator.

Yeah, this is going to be helpful ;)

[Dausuul]

Erm, he was illusionist with little offensive power. Remember, while younge and weaker Xykon killed his master Eugene was forcecaged spectator.

Yeah, this is going to be helpful ;)

Dude. Spoiler tags. Please.

[Wren]

That samurai with the visor, axe and tower shield looks pretty nifty.

[Irbis]

It's a halberd, and it is held by the girl to the left of him, if you're thinking about that weapon.

[xyzchyx]

i count 42.
Which one did I miss? (see previous page for enumerating 41 of them)

[DrivinAllNight]

Dude. Spoiler tags. Please.

what's so spoiling about a past comic?

[Baalzebub]

Man, :xykon: is in reeaaal trouble if he doesn't do something fast... wasting that Meteor Swarm on :roy: was not a good idea, after all.

[taraxia]

I'm not sure what to expect now.

Either Xykon's second defeat (note defeat, not his final demise), or the Sapphire Guard Massacre. He's either very, very powerful (which seems unusual, given the rumors I've heard about sorcerers) or he's more overconfident than I imagined (I think it was justified with Roy, as that was a one-on-one duel, while this fight is remarkably lop-sided).

In the game, Sorcs are one of the weakest full-casting classes, but that doesn't matter in this case -- any full-casting class outclasses any non-casting or half-casting class (i.e. Paladins) at high levels. And Xykon is at *Epic* levels.

[MReav]

Shall I bring my valid points table again, sections about attacking flying lich with DR 15 with touch attacks of max 8 paladins?

Not going to happen :)

If they can bring down the flying aspect, then Xykon is boned, since Supernaural Attacks (of which, include Smite and Lay on Hands) bypass DR.

[Willahad]

Did anybody notice that they never got round to fixing that window Miko and Belkar smashed through (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0284.html)? Good joke.

AND MitD is still wondering about Xykon's siblings.

AND Xykon continues to mess up the plan so he can have some fun. :p He may be outnumbered four scores to one, but I doubt many of those paladins are above level ten. Also, they're not PCs. There's going to be a slaughterfest shortly.

I noticed also. good touch

[jindra34]

In the game, Sorcs are one of the weakest full-casting classes, but that doesn't matter in this case -- any full-casting class outclasses any non-casting or half-casting class (i.e. Paladins) at high levels. And Xykon is at *Epic* levels.

you forgeting Eugene. everyone seems to be forgetting he is trapped in the throne room...

[taraxia]

Great splat picture, but at the cost of a difinite lack of jokes. Oh well,they can't all be hilarious, some are merely cool, and the boarded window did make me chuckle.

What I'm wondering, though, is why Xykon should have waited for the army to move in. What kind of plan did Redcloak make up this time? I hope we'll find out soon. I just can't wait for the next double-length strip. Well, actually, I can wait until tomorrow. Even with a few hours of delay, double-length strips always make me happy.

The plan is for Xykon + Army to fight the Sapphire Guard instead of just Xykon fighting the Sapphire Guard. It's not that complex a plan.

[Warbanner]

Given that the throne room is shielded against scrying (see OotS 415), it would suck for Xykon if the room was also shielded against magic, say by some sort of permanent, room-wide AMF. Then again, it clearly isn't, since Eugene was able to use magic there, just for starters.

[jindra34]

Given that the throne room is shielded against scrying (see OotS 415), it would suck for Xykon if the room was also shielded against magic, say by some sort of permanent, room-wide AMF. Then again, it clearly isn't, since Eugene was able to use magic there, just for starters.

But it may be hallowed, blessed, warded, and who knows what else. Area defense spells are powerful.

[taraxia]

All of the paladins now have a surprise round, some may also go before Xykon (if he doesn't have Moment of Prescience).

Surprise round? Why? Xykon burst in on *them*, and clearly expected them to be there. Since they also seem to have expected him to be there, this is a standard initiative roll, no surprise.

[taraxia]

I'm not 100% sure, but I would say yes. Cure Spells offer SR, but are marked as (Harmless), so I would think that this would also apply to Lay on Hands. However, Lay on Hands is also a (SP) ability, and therefore not exactly a spell, so that makes it a little harder to say it with absolute confidence.

Lay on Hands is a (Su) (Supernatural Ability), not a (Sp) (Spell-Like Ability). So no spell resistance.

[SteveMB]

I don't think Eugene is powerful enough to be a threat. Besides, he is bound inside the circle right?

He's not likely to contribute directly to the hack-n-slash part of combat, but his illusions might distract/confuse Xykon at a critical moment.

[KingMerv00]

Xykon can win this fairly easily. If he wins Init or survives to his first action. He's what Xykon should do assuming he was buffed before he when into the throne room:

1) Time stop
2) Greater invis.
3) Overland flight (if dispelled)
4) Set cloud kills and buff with remaining time stop rounds
5) Fly around the room raining meteor swarms at those enemies who seem to be tracking him because of see invis or true seeing.

[taraxia]

I'm not so sure about that. I've begun to think that all though the OotS are PCs, they aren't the PCs--that is, PC status is something certain people in the OotS world enjoy, not exclusive to these particular adventurers.

Xykon and Redcloak's adventures in the good-infested towers seemed to be a little evil mini-campaign; remember what Xykon said about the limited number of good-aligned monsters to choose from?

Redcloak is pretty strident about his own status as an NPC in the intro to On the Origin of PCs.

However, we do know there are other PCs in the world, and other world-threatening plots going on at this very moment. Remember Frudu and the Ming?

[JT]

These are probably the best of the Sapphire Guard, why? They the ones guarding the ultimate target of the lich. Hinjo knew Xykon was going to head here so he wouldnlt have the new recruits standing around the throne.

He also said that in #413

O-Chul: "And the paladins, Lord? Many are away, but there are at least 100 of us here."
Hinjo: "The newbies should stay behind the wall, to defend the citizens in case they breach it. The rest... you know where they should make their stand."

[Professor Tanhauser]

What's stopping Xykon from just hovering over them out of reach and slaughtering them at his leisure? There's a measly two flying guys, plus holy water or whatever the paladins can through. That's nothing.

.

Someone could cast dispell on his flight spell, dropping him to the floor. Hey, his invisio power was dispelled easily.

I think this is one reason that I'm not into D&D much as a rpg, it just gets too ridiculous with xx level characters being able to defeat armies singlehandedly. I mean, good drama in some ways, but bogus.

Yes, I know I like dit when belkar made himself a dead hobgoblin mountain, but seriously, unless higher levels involve infusions of kryptonian DNA it's a bit hard to see happening.

Seriously, with all those warriors in there, if xyk just walks over them it will be boring and a "Gimme a break!" moment. I hope he at least gets mauled up badly, if for no other reason then he's arrogant and not able to take things seriously or stick to a plan.

[Choas_Dragoon]

I like the bit at the end. I hope he slaughters the whole guard.

[jindra34]

I like the bit at the end. I hope he slaughters the whole guard.

he is not gonna be able to do it easily...

[Professor Tanhauser]

Xykon can win this fairly easily. If he wins Init or survives to his first action. He's what Xykon should do assuming he was buffed before he when into the throne room:

1) Time stop
2) Greater invis.
3) Overland flight (if dispelled)
4) Set cloud kills and buff with remaining time stop rounds
5) Fly around the room raining meteor swarms at those enemies who seem to be tracking him because of see invis or true seeing.

If xyk just walks over the paladins without a sweat, it will reaffirm my decision not to get into D&D as a game.

It might make a great comic, and it doed with rich doing it, but as a system goes, it's like "OK, my group plans a detailed, careful defense of the throneroom using tactics and logic to maxzimize our strengths in this area."

Single high level enemy comes in and yells "DIE!"

The entire group dies.

Ho hum, think I'll go play gurps. I don't like the company making it but it's a better system.

[Steward]

I agree. I think that we're underestimating the Paladins' abilities here. They should last at least 2, maybe 3 seconds at the least. I mean, come on, Xykon isn't that tough.

[jindra34]

I agree. I think that we're underestimating the Paladins' abilities here. They should last at least 2, maybe 3 seconds at the least. I mean, come on, Xykon isn't that tough.

thats one round...
also everyone is forgeting who is trapped in the throne room...

[Irbis]

If they can bring down the flying aspect, then Xykon is boned, since Supernaural Attacks (of which, include Smite and Lay on Hands) bypass DR.

If he has access to a little something called Greater Fireburst then trying to surround him would be the last thing they would do, ever.

Lay on Hands or not :smallsmile:

[Shatteredtower]

Those paladin's all look so cool. It sort of like in Revenge of the Sith, when everyone knew the Jedi would die but they also knew they were going to see the Jedi do some awesome stuff before they croaked.
Vader would have come across as a lot more impressive if he'd faced something like this in Revenge of the Sith.

Ah, Xykon. Make with the meteor swarms, you sexy, skinless god of s'mores.

What, you don't see the resemblance between paladins and melted marshmellow and chocolate on graham wafers? Keep watching.

No, don't argue with the sexy part either. Every mystic theurge we've seen can't be wrong!


Ho hum, think I'll go play gurps. I don't like the company making it but it's a better system.

For a relative value of better. Some people like being able to take on armies single-handedly without breaking a sweat.

As for the observation about the throne room's ace in the hole...

Assuming it's true, can we really assume that any of the paladins are currently in the throne room? Just how good is Eugene?

[Blood]

*chants* Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

[KingMerv00]

Someone could cast dispell on his flight spell, dropping him to the floor. Hey, his invisio power was dispelled easily.

Durkon was lucky to dispell the greater invis. Durkon is 12th levelish and Xykon is 19th levelish. That means Durkon rolled an 18 or higher on his dispell check.


I think this is one reason that I'm not into D&D much as a rpg, it just gets too ridiculous with xx level characters being able to defeat armies singlehandedly. I mean, good drama in some ways, but bogus.

Yes, I know I like dit when belkar made himself a dead hobgoblin mountain, but seriously, unless higher levels involve infusions of kryptonian DNA it's a bit hard to see happening.

Seriously, with all those warriors in there, if xyk just walks over them it will be boring and a "Gimme a break!" moment. I hope he at least gets mauled up badly, if for no other reason then he's arrogant and not able to take things seriously or stick to a plan.

I like that aspect of D&D. The PC's spend 1-7 levels as regular schlubs (that's like 6 months out of game) and then they get their rewards as uber heroes.

Besides if you don't like that, you can always just have a low level campaign. No big deal.

[lord_khaine]

now i think about it, Xykons biggest advance, his flight, could be negatet by a single grapple check, if the flying paladin gets hold of him.

since xykon proberly have a maximum load of around 100 pound, then he couldnt carry even a singel grappling paladin, wich leaves him in melee range of 8 more paladins+assortet casters.

[KingMerv00]

now i think about it, Xykons biggest advance, his flight, could be negatet by a single grapple check, if the flying paladin gets hold of him.

since xykon proberly have a maximum load of around 100 pound, then he couldnt carry even a singel grappling paladin, wich leaves him in melee range of 8 more paladins+assortet casters.

Heh, that's why you have a stilled dimension door spell ready.

[the_tick_rules]

yeah and grappling, and possibly pinning afterwards, can ruin a spellcasters day. I remember my thread when my monk annihilated a spellcaster by using that method. Now the SG probably has no more monks besides Miko, but I severly doubt xykon has combat reflxes so just mobbing him would work for a grapple.