Cantrips in battle

[Raul Leão]

Hello guys!
So i searched in the internet about cantrips (prestidigitation and mage hand to be more precise) and stuff they can do, but found more role playin porpouses... Im searching things that work specific on battle and i have some ideas and questions:

1) Can i use mage hands or prestidigitation to take the arrows of an archer out of his quiver an throw them away?
2) The effect of prestidigitation lasts for 1 hour, so i cast it in 1 round, lets say then i want to paint the warriors armor with blood, its consider a standard action? A move action? Free action?

I have some sugestions and hope u guys give more!

1) Mage hands to lift the enemy´s cape above his head to blind him.
2) Tie someone shoes together to make him fall.
3) Get a mundane item on the ground, wall, etc. that is behind the opponent and hit it in his back (maybe he looses DEX bonus to AC?).
4) Untie the archer´s quiver, so it falls on the ground.

[Starkeeper]

1) Can i use mage hands or prestidigitation to take the arrows of an archer out of his quiver an throw them away?
1) Mage hands to lift the enemy´s cape above his head to blind him.
2) Tie someone shoes together to make him fall.
4) Untie the archer´s quiver, so it falls on the ground.
No, the target for Mage Hand must be "One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.", those arrows, quivers, capes and shoe laces(assuming they even have any) would all be considered attended objects.

2) The effect of prestidigitation lasts for 1 hour, so i cast it in 1 round, lets say then i want to paint the warriors armor with blood, its consider a standard action? A move action? Free action?
Prestidigitation's description states that "It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round." but does not state the type of action required, you'll have to check with your DM for that. But if you try to paint a warrior's armour with blood, it's going to end up looking like he dipped himself in a vat of ketchup instead, Prestidigitation isn't good at precision work.

3) Get a mundane item on the ground, wall, etc. that is behind the opponent and hit it
in his back (maybe he looses DEX bonus to AC?).
There's no "back" in combat, unless you're roleplaying it then it's up to the DM, same goes for any sort of "attacking" you'd want to do with it.

[Jormengand]

1) Yes, if they're within the weight limit and he's not wearing the quiver, and they're not magical, and they're taped together in a bundle (It affects "One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.")
2) If the warrior is small enough that his armour fits in a 1-foot cube, then you can do it as a standard action.

Second list:

1) No. His cape is attended. You can lift an unattended cape up in front of you, potentially to grant you total cover, as a move action. This means that if you cast a spell and lift the cape on one round, then drop it (as a free action), cast another spell, and lift it up again to provide total cover again on the next round, you gain the monstrously powerful total cover, which is far better than just blinding someone.
2) You may be able to untie someone's shoelace with open, for a suitably liberal reading of "Container." As an attended object, it uses the owner's will save.
3) You may be able to use Mage Hand to wield a weapon. It's not specified what happens if you do.
4) You may be able to use Open on the quiver, because it's a container. Alternatively, Close doesn't specify that there needs to be some mechanism by which one can actually close the object, so you could do that. Prestidigitation may be able to undo the quiver, assuming that's within the capacity of 1 pound of force.

[Mystral]

You can move stuff with mage hand only 15 feet in 6 seconds. That is not a "hit", that is a gentle nudge.

There is a prestige class that let's you use a weapon with telekinesis as a special ability. So I'd say that if you need to have a prestige class to do it with a level 5 spell, then doing it without any feats or prestige class with a cantrip is out of the question.

[Curmudgeon]

There are legitimate battle uses for level 0 spells, but the uses you're positing don't work: every attended object is off limits for Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation has severe limitations.

I've used Create Water to make the ground muddy (difficult terrain) to foil charging.

If you want to help out in combat with cantrips, you can distribute Light to help your allies without low-light vision (cast on a pebble or coin, move, drop in an adjacent square). If an enemy is making Sunder attacks, get to within 10' of your ally and cast Mending on their damaged object. While Mage Hand won't work with attended objects, Open/Close has a chance (if the owner fails their Will save) to open an enemy's pouch. They might get distracted when their money falls on the ground while they're fighting. If it's an enemy spellcaster, they might dump their spell component pouch. :smallcool:

[Bronk]

This is a fun, official list of uses for prestidigitation:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707

The trouble with coming up with new uses for it is the bit where it can't do any damage and it can't duplicate any other spell... and there are a lot of spells, even at cantrip level.

[Hiro Quester]

I have also used create water as a cheap see invisible. Make it rain a little over an area, and look for wet footprints.

[nedz]

I've used Daze quite a lot — but it's strictly a low level option.
It's good for improving the action economy.

[Thurbane]

I've used Daze quite a lot — but it's strictly a low level option.
It's good for improving the action economy.

Daze is pretty amazing at low levels.

If you want to Extend it, the enemy becomes unable to act for 2 rounds...but there are probably better options for 1st levels spells (like Sleep or Color Spray).

[Inevitability]

Note that the list of uses linked above says you can warm an object up to 140 degrees F, or about 60 degrees Celsius. While it might not cause damage, a sword that hot must be uncomfortable to wield.

[martixy]

What? Cantrips in a bottle?

That's an awesome idea for an item I can give my players. :)

[Bronk]

There's also a lethal trick, I think using the 'sonic snap' cantrip along with the 'fell drain' feat, that gets brought up in threads like this. Maybe someone could volunteer the details...

[Urist]

There's also a lethal trick, I think using the 'sonic snap' cantrip along with the 'fell drain' feat, that gets brought up in threads like this. Maybe someone could volunteer the details...

The Fell Drain Metamagic feat allows you have any spell that deals damage also deal 1 negative level; with Metamagic reducers, you can potentially turn Fell Drain spells into a pretty nasty tool.

[illyahr]

The sheer amount of water made with the create water spell is ridiculous. I've seen a wizard who lived at the top of a hill. He warded the hill so that you could only approach via a small, bowl-like path. Anyone approaches that he doesn't like and he pours 400 gallons of water down the path with a 0-level spell.

[Extra Anchovies]

Daze is good until you start running into 4 HD enemies; all of my low-level casters spam it to conserve other slots (especially in Pathfinder, with at-will cantrips).

Launch Bolt for colossal crossbow bolts (6d8 damage) is nice too.

[Curmudgeon]

The sheer amount of water made with the create water spell is ridiculous. I've seen a wizard who lived at the top of a hill. He warded the hill so that you could only approach via a small, bowl-like path. Anyone approaches that he doesn't like and he pours 400 gallons of water down the path with a 0-level spell.
That's a pretty good trick, considering:

Wizards have no access to Create Water.
The amount of water you can get at level 20 is 40 gallons, not 400.

[MesiDoomstalker]

That's a pretty good trick, considering:

Wizards have no access to Create Water.
The amount of water you can get at level 20 is 40 gallons, not 400.


Also that 400 gallons of water, even rushing down a slide like tube, isn't a ton of water. Sure it'll knock most people off their feet, but if you are visiting someone with the CL to produce that much water you'll have the strength and/or spells to handle a minor deluge.

[illyahr]

That's a pretty good trick, considering:

Wizards usually have no access to Create Water.
The amount of water you can get at level 20 is 40 gallons in a single casting.


Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Magical research put it on his spell list, and I never said how many times he cast that 0-level spell. :smallamused:


Also that 400 gallons of water, even rushing down a slide like tube, isn't a ton of water. Sure it'll knock most people off their feet, but if you are visiting someone with the CL to produce that much water you'll have the strength and/or spells to handle a minor deluge.

Totally inefficient, but extremely funny. :smallbiggrin:

[Inevitability]

Also that 400 gallons of water, even rushing down a slide like tube, isn't a ton of water. Sure it'll knock most people off their feet, but if you are visiting someone with the CL to produce that much water you'll have the strength and/or spells to handle a minor deluge.

Don't forget the part where anyone with enough magic power to ward a hill minus a small path would probably also be able to ward the entire hill and just install a password he only gives to people he likes.