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View Full Version : Optimization The best thing about being me... (Infinite minions, immortality, and more!)



Inevitability
2015-07-30, 10:09 AM
http://archive.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/boab/boab73_hiveSplash.jpg

"What is a raindrop compared to the cloud? What is a day compared to eternity? What is a thought, compared to the brain? What are you... compared to Us?"

Race: Elan
Gender: Male
Class: StP Erudite 10/Thrallherd 10
Alignment: LE

Ability scores at 1st level (32 point buy):
STR 8
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 12
CHA 14

Ability score increases on level 4, 8 and 12 are Intelligence. Charisma is increased at level 16 and 20.

Items you should have:
-Thought Bottles

Thralls:
-The Protector: 17th-level LE elan cleric. (Spontaneous domain) (Domains: Life and Law)
-The Builder: 17th-level LE elan wizard.


Backstory:

The creature who is now known has He Who Is Many used to be your average elan psion. He explored dungeons, fought strange monsters, and forged strong bonds of friendship with his adventuring companions.

All that changed, however, when the elan narrowly escaped capture at the hands of a cabal of mind flayers. His friends, who had not been so lucky, were used as new hosts for the horrific creatures. The elan looked in horror as his friends were slowly devoured from the inside by the tadpoles. Only when their transformation was fully complete and his friends were accepted amongst the illithids did he leave, filled with both disgust and fascination. After that, the elan grew noticeably more grim and serious. He stopped adventuring; preferring to study the mind and its workings. His fellow elans heard less and less of him, until one day he stopped replying to their messages. A search of his study revealed he had completely disappeared.

Never did anyone refind him. Sure, there were stories of an elan traveling alone, his goal a remote village, but said village turned out to be empty when those rumors were investigated. And the sudden disappearance of two other influential elans couldn't have anything to do with this... could it?

Over time, He Who Is Many disappeared from the people's memories. His name was forgotten, as was his story. His fate was left a mystery.

Except to one small corner of the multiverse, that was. Lurking there, He Who Is Many bided his time, waiting for the moment when he would prove no one would take any more from him.

Not even his life.


The trick:

(Note: It is assumed that XP and gold are freely available. You have high-level three tier 1/2 classes under your command, possess several thought bottles and can just )

Have the Builder create a fast time demiplane using Genesis, then immediately have the Protector cast Forbiddance on the entire plane. After you have a thoroughly warded base, it is time to start your chain of production.

Let the Builder cast Clone on a bit of flesh from yourself, repeating the process constantly. After a few months, when the clone is fully grown, the Protector casts Animate Objects on eight clones, after which the Builder uses Permanency to make the objects permanent.

Now, cast Incarnate Construct on the animated clones. The result should be a fleshy, intelligent, free-willed humanoid.

You then manifest Mind Seed on the humanoid clone and wait while it slowly morphs into a weaker version of you.

Next, cast Mindrape on your clones, giving them all your knowledge, memories, and opinions while at the same time commanding complete dedication and obedience to you.

Finally, add a Permanencied Telepatic Bond, so that you and your clones are in constant communcation with each other.

When you have enough clones, manifest Reality Revision to move them all to a place on a plane you wish. I recommend somewhere near several major cities, so that the appearance of a few identical-looking psions at the time won't be noticed. You can have them set up a few bases for the next groups of clones, or just patiently wait. However, the rate at which new clones appear (see also Numbers) mean you'll most likely be able to make your move quickly.

The process of creating clones continues on your demiplane, continuously giving you more minions. Each clone has a leadership score of 16, allowing for 25 first-level believers, two second-level believers, a third-level believer, and an 11th-level thrall.

You can do about everything you want with those clones and their thralls. Send them off to conquer remote areas? Let them spy on your enemies? Guard areas you have conquered? You have about every spell of level 5 or lower between your clones' thralls, as well as all class features gainable at level 11 or below.

With giant masses of psions and other strong characters, it shouldn't be hard to conquer large parts of the world. If your army turns out to not be enough, don't worry. Use Reality Revision to travel to the material plane and help your minions out yourself. There is little able to resist the combined might of a psion able to manifest 9th-level powers with hordes of high-level minions serving him.

But what if someone manages to spot the real you between the hundreds of identical copies who will most likely be near you and kills you while you are on the material plane? Well, you simply take over the body of a nearby clone, that's what happens! Even with the animation, incarnation, and brainwashing, they're still your clones, so you reawaken in their bodies when you are killed. Remember to use a thought bottle shortly thereafter!

Once you have conquered all of infinity using this method, all left to do is slowly but steadily turn everyone into new Mind Seeded copies of yourself. Power Stones of Mind Seed can be given to your clones to make the transformations proceed faster.

The end result of this build? An elan who casts as an 18th-level manifester, with the ability to create hundreds of thousands of high-level psion followers per day, all of which are telepathically linked to him (and as a result to each other). Oh, and he's pretty much immortal.

Numbers

Incarnate Construct takes 8 hours to cast, and you can cast it twenty-one times without having to rest. This means that you'll spend seven days casting in a row, then rest for a few hours.

Mindraping the resulting humanoids takes the same amount of power points. This means that you need about eight days to turn twenty-one animated clones into loyal humanoid slaves.

You must then spend seven days per clone on a mind seed. In this time, you can already create new loyal non-mind seeded servants.

All things considered, it takes around 315 days to create the first set of 21 psions (time needed for clones to grow included). Afterwards, you can create one every seven days. In the first year spent on the demiplane, around thirty psions are created. In subsequent years, you should be able to create fifty-two psions.

Note that these two-years, in which you created eight-two 12th-level psions completely loyal to you, took exactly twelve seconds on the prime material plane. That's right; you just created a factory that creates a psion every 0.23 seconds. Have fun with the resulting army!


Weaknesses

Even with your great power, there's a few things you can still be killed by.

-Time Travel. I don't really see how to prevent this. Maybe use standard cheese to get a god of magic or time to give you a heads-up when they sense someone is going to cast Teleport Through Time?

-Trap the Soul or similar effects. You can't inhabit a new body if you are killed and your soul is captured in the same turn. The best you can do is to instruct your clones to immediately attack anyone they see who is capable of such magic, or to focus on freeing you if such a fate happens to you, but there's no way to avoid it but to remain on your plane.

-Sphere of Annihilation + Well of Many Worlds. Yeah, there isn't a lot that can survive this. Teleport Through Time the moment you receive one of your clones notices it, maybe? I honestly have no idea.


Unclear rules/Debates

Q: Incarnate Construct specifically says it can't be cast on an Animated Object, right?
A: Yes it does. However, it also says the reason for this is that they are only constructs temporarily. Permanency should remove this restriction, seeing that now they are not any more temporary than any other construct.

Q: Wouldn't the created clones still have the mindset of an Animated Object?
A: No. Mind seed specifically calls out the created copy has your personality, as well as the possibility of emotional growth.

Inevitability
2015-07-30, 01:42 PM
Could anyone tell me what they think of this? Is it legal?

thethird
2015-07-30, 03:26 PM
I would advice that you are a telepath (with telepathy as 5th level ACF) instead of an erudite and have a spell to power erudite as a thrall. This will ensure that your spell to power erudite doesn't trigger the exception to learn more powers (if you take more levels in another psionic class than levels in erudite you cannot learn new powers) while at the same time giving all your clones telepathy and bypassing the UPD entirely (since you can easily transmit powers). For a second thrall I would encourage a psionic artificer since this guys item powers are psionic, and the erudite can learn them. This will also allow you to create a psionic item of mindrape (since a power exist due to spell to power erudites existing) and learn it through the erudite, even if it would otherwise be impossible due to it being a 9th level spell.

Inevitability
2015-07-31, 08:11 AM
I would advice that you are a telepath (with telepathy as 5th level ACF) instead of an erudite and have a spell to power erudite as a thrall. This will ensure that your spell to power erudite doesn't trigger the exception to learn more powers (if you take more levels in another psionic class than levels in erudite you cannot learn new powers) while at the same time giving all your clones telepathy and bypassing the UPD entirely (since you can easily transmit powers). For a second thrall I would encourage a psionic artificer since this guys item powers are psionic, and the erudite can learn them. This will also allow you to create a psionic item of mindrape (since a power exist due to spell to power erudites existing) and learn it through the erudite, even if it would otherwise be impossible due to it being a 9th level spell.

Hm... I am not too sure. The erudite doesn't break those requirements (he's only taking as many levels in another class as in erudite, not more), and while telepathy is neat, permanent Telepathic Bonds are rather similar and UPD checks can be easily made.

Psionic artificer might be a good idea, though. Perhaps I should replace the cleric with one? The only thing he's really necessary for is casting Forbiddance, which He Who Is Many could cast himself.

PoeticDwarf
2015-07-31, 08:14 AM
Very cool build, has anyone an idea you can make this even more OP? Every build can be more optimal, is my experience.

Extra Anchovies
2015-07-31, 10:39 AM
Can this be done without casting any [Evil] spells? A good-aligned (both mechanically and in spirit) version of this build would be pretty cool.

Inevitability
2015-07-31, 12:54 PM
Can this be done without casting any [Evil] spells? A good-aligned (both mechanically and in spirit) version of this build would be pretty cool.

You could have one your thralls be a StP erudite and have him cast Mind Seed and Mindrape for you, which technically doesn't force you to be evil.

If you read Psychic Chirurgery in a certain way, you might be able to substitute it for Mind Seed.


Transfer Knowledge
If desired, you can use this power to directly transfer knowledge of a power you know to another psionic character. You can give a character knowledge of a power of any level that she can manifest, even if the power is not normally on the character’s power list. Knowledge of powers gained through psychic chirurgery does not count toward the maximum number of powers a character can know per level.

The part in italics could be read as 'You can give a character knowledge of a power of any level and she can now manifest this power.' I don't expect many DM's to let it slide, though.