Pathfinder psionics: advice for power selection

[Unbodied]

Edit:
New question: I'm thinking of putting either Energy Ball or Energy Current into a custom made Lesser Psicrown to have some extra energy based dps in my back pocket. Which power would you recommend?



Which of these two powers do people prefer? Fold Space has much greater range so I suppose its better for getting out of sticky situations or reaching blocked areas. However Dimension Slide costs less PP and more importantly lets you act after you use it, so unlike Fold Space the augment to move action lets you teleport into or out of combat and then start blasting. The short range also doesn't seem like that much of a lot of combat seems to happen at fairly close range anyway.

What do you people think?
And if you think that Fold Space is the superior short range teleportation power what are your suggestions for a decent 3rd level power? Either from the standard psion list, Etheral Form or from other class lists via research. (currently I'm thinking of Mend Body, Energy Bolt, Dispel Psionics and a fourth slot which might end up being Dimension Slide).

[Eldaran]

I think fold space is by far the superior choice simply because it does not require line of sight, so you can basically ignore all walls from then on.

As for third level powers, dispel psionics is always a good choice.

[Unbodied]

I think fold space is by far the superior choice simply because it does not require line of sight, so you can basically ignore all walls from then on.

As for third level powers, dispel psionics is always a good choice.
That's a good point. With the short range I suppose I wouldn't get much use out of "port in and blast" anyway. And though Fold Space has a annoying limitation I guess the "blast and port out" strategy is more useful for a full manifester class.

Dispel Psionics is already on the list, I'm looking for a fourth slot. Solicit Psicrystal perhaps? Or False Sensory Input?

[DrMartin]

Touchsight is one of the best 3rd level powers

other nice ones are Time hop (manifested on objects, can be insanely useful depending on the campaign) and Telekinetic Force can also have some utility, at least considering that in dnd these are two separate powers (tk-force and tk-trust)

I'd go with touchsight though, is crazy useful. Grab Burrowing Power at some point, trap your opponent behind walls, manifest a burrowing touchsight and go to town :)

[Unbodied]

Touchsight is one of the best 3rd level powers

other nice ones are Time hop (manifested on objects, can be insanely useful depending on the campaign) and Telekinetic Force can also have some utility, at least considering that in dnd these are two separate powers (tk-force and tk-trust)

I'd go with touchsight though, is crazy useful. Grab Burrowing Power at some point, trap your opponent behind walls, manifest a burrowing touchsight and go to town :)
Is there a point in getting Touchsight when I already have Pierce the Veils? I know its better in some ways but having two powers to see in the dark and spot invisible enemies seems redundant.

Time Hop is tempting but it seems completely useless against actual opponents when I get to higher levels since I can't Augment the DC in the slightest and the opponent gets a new save every turn.

I actually have Telekinetic Force at the moment but I'm planning to replace it when I reach level 14 or get the budget to make Students Robes since I get it as a Psi-like Ability from my archetype. That's why I'm looking for a replacement, researching powers is allowed so if there are any other discipline or class powers at third level that are really useful let me know. :)

[Psyren]

Pierce the Veils (aka Psionic True Seeing) does not beat fog or mundane stealth; Touchsight does, so factor that in.

Fold Space = Psionic Dimension Door, which makes it a little more versatile than Dimension Slide, but for combat use DS is generally all you need and is much cheaper. So it depends on when you plan to be 'porting around, if you're using it to scout for instance then FS is superior because you can blink behind doors etc.

[DrMartin]

well, I know that in play i am using touchsight way more than true seeing :D both have their uses though. One of the nice thing about touchsight is that it removes the need of a perception check to locate creatures that are hiding.

However i assumed you were just getting to 4th level powers and that true seeing (sorry: pierce the veil) was still out of your reach. If you post something more about your build or at least your full power selection I bet you'd get more pertinent advice :)

[Unbodied]

well, I know that in play i am using touchsight way more than true seeing :D both have their uses though. One of the nice thing about touchsight is that it removes the need of a perception check to locate creatures that are hiding.

However i assumed you were just getting to 4th level powers and that true seeing (sorry: pierce the veil) was still out of your reach. If you post something more about your build or at least your full power selection I bet you'd get more pertinent advice :)
I'm currently level 10 and have gotten permission to rework my character. I'm using the Ascendant Psion archetype and so far my power selection is

1st-level
Circumstance Shield, Vigor, Attraction, Astral Construct and Inertial Armor.

2nd-level
Read Thoughts, Control Sound, Concussion Blast and Share Pain (planning to open a extra slot with a Mind Stone or White and Green Ioun stone and then research Hustle for Hustle Power Hustle goodness)

3rd-level
Telekinetic Force (to be replaced when I get it as a Psi-like Ability), Mend Body, Energy Bolt and Dispel Psionics.

4th-level
Mind Control, Fold Space, Intellect Fortress and Augered Answer

5th-level
Mind Probe, Major Ectoplasmic Creation, Pierce the Veils (might replace with Incarnate or Planar Travel when I get Touchsight) and Ectoplasmic Shambler.

I'm planning to craft a psicrown with Correspond as the base power that will let me recharge it and then stuff it full of useful powers that aren't on my power list and that I won't need to use often such as Psionic Revivify (might go with power stones on that one), Cleanse Spirit, Quintessence, Memory Modification, etc.

For the future I'm thinking:

6th-level
Disintegrate, Sustained Flight, Breath of the Black Dragon and Temporal Acceleration

7th-level
Cosmic Awareness, Etheral Form, Bend Reality and Barred Mind Personal

8th-level
Psychokinetic Sphere, Psychoport Greater, True Metabolism and Recall Death

9th-level
Tornado Blast, Reality Revision, Unravel Psionics and Metamorphosis True


Not sure about Recall Death but I didn’t see many 8th level powers that appealed to me. Might consider Fusjon or Body of Iron instead but any suggestion is welcome.

Edit:
Also I'm not sure if I will have much use of Sustained Flight and Etheral Form when I gain the Ascension ability and become an incorporeal creature. Can those fly automatically?

[DrMartin]

where does the archetype come from? i cannot find either in ultimate psionics or on the pfsrd.

anyhow power selection is solid, here are some powers that i'm using a lot with my actual character that are missing from your list:

1st level: Crystal shard
2nd level: Clairvoyant sense, Empathic Transfer, Dimension Swap (often swapping with an astral costruct)
3rd: Energy wall, Touchsight
4th: Ectoplasmic Wall, Modify Matter (later switched to greater), Schism (more flexible than hustle / hustle power in my opinion, as it lets you use your psionic focus for other metapsionics, and it does not compete with other uses of your precious single swift/immediate action), Wrench, Resist Death, as well as Correspond that you already mentioned
5th: psychoport, planar travel
6th: Trigger Power
7th: mass ectoplasmic cocoon, fate of one

haven't got to 8th level powers yet :D

I think i haven't ever used Time hop on a creature (except once on a party member, to phase him out of a grapple), but on objects is a lot of fun and utility (for when you need something less drastic than a disintegrate).

good powers for occasional manifesting (either to put in a partially charged dorje, a couple of power stones or into a crown) are trace teleport, retrieve, null psionic field (give this to your psicrystal, fix your cristal to your fighter/bariarian, and watch him break faces)

[Unbodied]

where does the archetype come from? i cannot find either in ultimate psionics or on the pfsrd.
Its in Ultimate Psionics, its a Elan specific archetype.



anyhow power selection is solid, here are some powers that i'm using a lot with my actual character that are missing from your list:

1st level: Crystal shard
2nd level: Clairvoyant sense, Empathic Transfer, Dimension Swap (often swapping with an astral costruct)
3rd: Energy wall, Touchsight
4th: Ectoplasmic Wall, Modify Matter (later switched to greater), Schism (more flexible than hustle / hustle power in my opinion, as it lets you use your psionic focus for other metapsionics, and it does not compete with other uses of your precious single swift/immediate action), Wrench, Resist Death, as well as Correspond that you already mentioned
5th: psychoport, planar travel
6th: Trigger Power
7th: mass ectoplasmic cocoon, fate of one
How does Crystal Shard scale? Those require attack rolls don't they?
I have thought about Clairvoyant Sense but since I need to be familiar with the location already or have it be obvious I'm not sure its worth spending a Mind Stone and research on when I could just send the Psicrystal to scout. Dimension Swap could be useful but I think I'm just going to stick with Fold Space if I get caught up in melee. Plus I'm not planning on using Astral Construct much since our group is pretty big and summons slow down combat even more than it already is, I just really wanted it because its cool and a great ace in the hole if $hit hits the fan.

Energy Wall is something I used to have but I dropped it because it doesn't scale in the slightest and mostly just got in the way for the party anyway. Touchsight is going to replace Telekinetic Force when I hit lv 14 or can afford to craft Students Robes.

The ectowall is something I really want but can never find room for since there are so many cool 4th-level powers. And at this level Mind Stones start getting expensive. I might get it or stuff it in the Psicrown if I find myself wishing for it often. Schism is Eh, I already have enough trouble picking 4th level powers and Hustle can also buff my allies since I have Shared Power. Wrench I'm thinking of sticking in the crown but only if we start encountering teleporting enemies. Same with Resist Death and death effects.

There's no point in having both Psychoport and Greater Psychoport and since I have no problem picking 8th level powers since there are so few its easy to know which to pick. We're mostly staying in one city anyway so there's no rush and Greater Psychoport is so much more convenient since I don't need to fiddle with accuracy tables. One city applies to Planar Travel as well. If we keep material from a previous GM we know about a Skullkickers inspired planar tavern anyway. If the DM is really against Incarnate I will get Planar Travel.

Trigger Power is very tempting, maybe I should get that and make and get time stopping shenanigans by crafting Boots of Temporal Acceleration instead?

I have considered both of those as well as Fission. Tell me, is there in your opinion a point in keeping Etheral Form when you're an incorporeal creature?



haven't got to 8th level powers yet :D

I think i haven't ever used Time hop on a creature (except once on a party member, to phase him out of a grapple), but on objects is a lot of fun and utility (for when you need something less drastic than a disintegrate). I suppose I could look into making a Mind Stone for it. Depends on how often I find myself in need of removing objects or find opportuties to mess stuff up by removing an object.



good powers for occasional manifesting (either to put in a partially charged dorje, a couple of power stones or into a crown) are trace teleport, retrieve, null psionic field (give this to your psicrystal, fix your cristal to your fighter/bariarian, and watch him break faces)
I was thinking of Null Psionics Field already, saw the Psicrystal trick mentioned in a different discussion. Retrieve I could get, although there are Gloves of Retrival I might make instead, though for gloves probably Object Reading instead. Trace Teleport depends on the teleporters.

[DrMartin]

ahh silly me didn't think of looking into the racial archetypes. Well you do become ethereal but that's 20th level, you have to play a lot to get there :D so in the meanwhile you can pick other powers and swap them out later. Same with teleport, yes you may eventually pick the greater version as one of your 8th level powers, but that's in 5 levels from now - depending on your playing schedule it may be months or a year away (if you actually get to those levels at all). Psions have a lot of flexibility in re-configuring their powers known, as even if you don't have a power stone with psychic reformation laying around, you can pick it up basically every time you gain a level and rethink your power selection, even more so in Pathfinder with no xp cost.
Planar travel, while it doesn't work on unwilling opponents like in 3.5, is still very useful, as you can shift to a plane with fast flowing time and get your crafting done in no time. is not like you're getting older as an elan anyway :D again, in some campaign this may not be an issue.

on another topic, yeah it's really hard to pick 4th level powers, so many of them are so good. :D it really depends on the campaign though, basically every one of our bad guys have been a recurring teleporting villain up to the point that i picked wrench.

Crystal Shard scales quite well, and while it does requires an attack roll, is Save:No, Spell Resistance:No, so you can blast away magic immune critters and people in anti magic field with it. As all blasting powers it does chip away your PP quickly though.

You mentioned your group is pretty big: dimension swap is really amazing to have your fellow party member when you want them to be, or to reconfigure a bad ambush situation or just generally have control over the battlefield (this based on us playing on a grid, i imagine if you do narrative combat its usefulness may be different). I know i use the power almost on every combat encounter.

I'd keep temporal acceleration and dump breath of the black dragon to nab trigger power instead. If you still ache for a shotgun-area kind of power, I'd swap energy bolt with energy cone, and to have longer range options, i'd get a stone of energy missile.

on the subject: do you have a budget to spend on crafting/magic items?

[Feint's End]

Touch sight is usually a must have. It beats a lot of things pierce the veil doesn't, costs less pp and most importantly has a longer duration making it easy to keep up throughout dungeons with little investment. Pierce the veil should be saved for the few situation it's actually needed.

Dimension hop is insanely good too. Hoping allies can be useful and it's a mediocre cc at best but the sheer utility it can bring is insane. Locked door? Hop it. How about the carrying pillar of a building? Hop it.

There are so many things you can do with those powers it's not even funny. Similar to telekinetic force. Great power too for utility and combat.

[Unbodied]

ahh silly me didn't think of looking into the racial archetypes. Well you do become ethereal but that's 20th level, you have to play a lot to get there :D Ah but you forget! Crafting a Student's Robe is actually really cheap and it treats your class level as 5 levels higher for determining your Discipline Abilities. Level 15 is still far away but its much closer than lv 20.


so in the meanwhile you can pick other powers and swap them out later. Same with teleport, yes you may eventually pick the greater version as one of your 8th level powers, but that's in 5 levels from now - depending on your playing schedule it may be months or a year away (if you actually get to those levels at all). Psions have a lot of flexibility in re-configuring their powers known, as even if you don't have a power stone with psychic reformation laying around, you can pick it up basically every time you gain a level and rethink your power selection, even more so in Pathfinder with no xp cost.I know that but I don't want to spend 5000gp to buy a power that I'm just going replace later anyway, nor do I want to waste a Feat slot on it. If I really need it I can trade it in on the spot anyway. Or just use Planar Travel twice. I'm well aware of Psychic Reformation, I was actually able to talk the GM into just handing me a Map of the Mind free of charge because its far more limited than the power itself. In return I promised to never trade that power back in though. A lot of party members thought it was to OP and/or cheesy.


Planar travel, while it doesn't work on unwilling opponents like in 3.5, is still very useful, as you can shift to a plane with fast flowing time and get your crafting done in no time. is not like you're getting older as an elan anyway :D again, in some campaign this may not be an issue... Huh. That's a cool trick. Especially since Elans don't need to eat or drink either (well actually I do since I took Smooth Talker but I crafted a Ring of Sustenance). Definetly picking that now.

Know the name of any such planes?



on another topic, yeah it's really hard to pick 4th level powers, so many of them are so good. :D it really depends on the campaign though, basically every one of our bad guys have been a recurring teleporting villain up to the point that i picked wrench.We haven't faced any teleporting villains at all. Unless you count demon dog things with short distance teleportation. Depends on the campaign I suppose.


Crystal Shard scales quite well, and while it does requires an attack roll, is Save:No, Spell Resistance:No, so you can blast away magic immune critters and people in anti magic field with it. As all blasting powers it does chip away your PP quickly though.It won't cost much to get it but I'm not sure I need it, if the enemy has Evasion or high Spell Resistance I could just use Concussion Blast or Telekinetic Force instead.


You mentioned your group is pretty big: dimension swap is really amazing to have your fellow party member when you want them to be, or to reconfigure a bad ambush situation or just generally have control over the battlefield (this based on us playing on a grid, i imagine if you do narrative combat its usefulness may be different). I know i use the power almost on every combat encounter.We do play by grids. I'll see if there's a need for it. We have not been ambushed yet.



I'd keep temporal acceleration and dump breath of the black dragon to nab trigger power instead. If you still ache for a shotgun-area kind of power, I'd swap energy bolt with energy cone, and to have longer range options, i'd get a stone of energy missile.
I was thinking that since I'm not a Kineticist anymore there's no reason to not pick an acid power and I don't have much DPS. That could work however, Energy Missile seems better for targeted strikes than Energy Bolt... On the other hand its a lot of gold to burn when I'm not sure if I will get any use out of Temporal Acceleration. I don't have a lot of buffs that I need to cast shortly before or during battle. A combination with Delay Power could be cool.... Wait and see I guess, I don't have 6th level powers yet.



on the subject: do you have a budget to spend on crafting/magic items?
Only small stuff at the moment, we have gotten lots of trinkets but extremely little money so far. We've talked with the new GM and it should be fixed in our next sessions.

I also have ideas for making money with 24/7 crafting (psicrystal) + 23/7 crafting (Elan 1/2 "sleep" + Ring of Sustenance), swindling (major ectoplasmic creation + Assume Likeness) and have picked up the Spark of Creation to squeeze as much stuff into my budget as I can. Might also try using Attraction on objects I'm going to sell.



Touch sight is usually a must have. It beats a lot of things pierce the veil doesn't, costs less pp and most importantly has a longer duration making it easy to keep up throughout dungeons with little investment. Pierce the veil should be saved for the few situation it's actually needed.

Dimension hop is insanely good too. Hoping allies can be useful and it's a mediocre cc at best but the sheer utility it can bring is insane. Locked door? Hop it. How about the carrying pillar of a building? Hop it.

There are so many things you can do with those powers it's not even funny. Similar to telekinetic force. Great power too for utility and combat.
Did you mean Fold Space aka Psionic Dimension Door? Or did you mean Time Hop?

[DrMartin]

Ah but you forget! Crafting a Student's Robe is actually really cheap and it treats your class level as 5 levels higher for determining your Discipline Abilities. Level 15 is still far away but its much closer than lv 20.


ah, nice! i mostly play 3.5 and haven't caught up yet on many of PF's unique things.



Know the name of any such planes?


depends on the setting...no plane that i know of in the official pathfinder setting, but honestly I don't know much about it. if in your GM's world there are no fast time planes, generally the astral plane is described as timeless. you can shift back to the material plane to trance for 1 hour and then shift back to the astral plane to work for a full day, shift back and no time should have passed. Trance for one hour, and repeat the jig. Otherwise I know that in Eberron the plane of dreams has the fast time trait.



I was thinking that since I'm not a Kineticist anymore there's no reason to not pick an acid power and I don't have much DPS. That could work however, Energy Missile seems better for targeted strikes than Energy Bolt... On the other hand its a lot of gold to burn when I'm not sure if I will get any use out of Temporal Acceleration. I don't have a lot of buffs that I need to cast shortly before or during battle. A combination with Delay Power could be cool.... Wait and see I guess, I don't have 6th level powers yet.


temporal acceleration really shines with battlefield shaping powers - like greater modify matter or wall of ectoplasm / ectoplasmic shambler. Also keep in mind that if you have overchannel (have yet to find a psion without) you can extend it as soon as you get it, netting you two full round with a swift action.

[Unbodied]

depends on the setting...no plane that i know of in the official pathfinder setting, but honestly I don't know much about it. if in your GM's world there are no fast time planes, generally the astral plane is described as timeless. you can shift back to the material plane to trance for 1 hour and then shift back to the astral plane to work for a full day, shift back and no time should have passed. Trance for one hour, and repeat the jig. Otherwise I know that in Eberron the plane of dreams has the fast time trait. Okay, neat. Ult Psi's trait section has Dream Traits so there has to be a dream plane or something. Worst comes to worst if the GM doesn't allow it I should be able to convince the party to contribute money for a permanent Genesis with fast time, otherwise I might not have enough time to craft all their gear.



temporal acceleration really shines with battlefield shaping powers - like greater modify matter or wall of ectoplasm / ectoplasmic shambler. Also keep in mind that if you have overchannel (have yet to find a psion without) you can extend it as soon as you get it, netting you two full round with a swift action.Mmm. Sounds cool. I have to consider it, we already have a witch in the party for debuffs so I'm not sure how much we really need extra battlefield control. The druid certainly isn't keen on area of effect powers (like Energy Wall) since it gets in the way of her tiger. Wasn't there a feat that let's you make your damage dealing powers harmless to your allies?

By the way, what's your opinion on Attraction vis a vis Empathic Connection/psionic charm?

Is it worth 1000 gp to research the Charm equivalent or is Attraction good enough that there's little need?

[Unbodied]

You mentioned your group is pretty big: dimension swap is really amazing to have your fellow party member when you want them to be, or to reconfigure a bad ambush situation or just generally have control over the battlefield (this based on us playing on a grid, i imagine if you do narrative combat its usefulness may be different). I know i use the power almost on every combat encounter.

I'd keep temporal acceleration and dump breath of the black dragon to nab trigger power instead. If you still ache for a shotgun-area kind of power, I'd swap energy bolt with energy cone, and to have longer range options, i'd get a stone of energy missile.Something just occurred to me, if I want to reposition allies couldn't I just use Shared Power: Fold Space? Or Telekinetic Force?

On the Breath of the Black Dragon: I think I'm going to dump it like you said and make up for it by stuffing either Energy Ball or Energy Current into my Psicrown. Its probably a good idea to have a powerful DPS power that I can use if my own pp pool runs empty anyway. Which seems better to have?

Its going to be a Lesser crown probably forever or for ages to save costs so it might be better to use the more PP efficient Current. On the other hand I would need to get Solicit Psicrystal to get full use out of it, I suppose Energy Ball is also probably better at killing lots of stuff right booping now if. Thoughts?

[DrMartin]

mnh i tend to like powers that save PP - so i say go for energy current, and if you need to fry many opponents at once, get one of either energy cone or energy wall. energy wall will later be very nice paired with energy conversion if you pick it up (at the cost of your mobility), and - again - is a very cheap solution, pp-wise. (plus i like wall powers :D).

The only thing energy ball has going is range, which now that i think about it, almost never comes up in the games i play.

for your other question - if i remember correctly you had dominate in your list as a power known, so I'd say that attraction is good enough for a 1st level power - it is more limited than charm in its applications, but on the other hand it doesn't require you to actually interact with the target, so you can - say - make a guard be suddenly *very* interested in what's behind the corner, while you are hiding somewhere else. To get the same guard to leave her post with charm you would have to actually interact with her.

[Unbodied]

mnh i tend to like powers that save PP - so i say go for energy current, and if you need to fry many opponents at once, get one of either energy cone or energy wall. energy wall will later be very nice paired with energy conversion if you pick it up (at the cost of your mobility), and - again - is a very cheap solution, pp-wise. (plus i like wall powers :D).
Come to think of it both the old, temp and new GM prefers to use few enemies because its easier to keep track of so Energy Current seems like the better choices all around. Plus Psicrystals can use psionic items that they can wear right? So I could take of a Third Eye of Concentration if I wanted to use Solicit Psicrystal: Energy Current and didn't want to risk it losing concentration after a hit?

Not a fan of Energy Wall anymore though. The psion guide listed it as blue claiming it bypasses PR or Saves (forgot which) but that doesn’t seem to hold true in Pathfinder. And it does crap damage that can't be augmented, gets in the way of the rest of the party and doesn't even slow down enemies with high HP. The Energy Conversion combo might be powerful but its exactly the kind of extra complication that I don't want to keep track of and it would be hard to fit it in my build anyway.



The only thing energy ball has going is range, which now that i think about it, almost never comes up in the games i play. Good point. Sticking to Energy Current.




for your other question - if i remember correctly you had dominate in your list as a power known, so I'd say that attraction is good enough for a 1st level power - it is more limited than charm in its applications, but on the other hand it doesn't require you to actually interact with the target, so you can - say - make a guard be suddenly *very* interested in what's behind the corner, while you are hiding somewhere else. To get the same guard to leave her post with charm you would have to actually interact with her.Neat. Good to know that I'm not being stupid for thinking Attraction is good enough.

Is Compelling Voice (aka Psionic Suggestion) something I should think about picking up or is that also not needed when I have Attraction and Mind Control?

Any thoughts on Clairvoyant Sense? The Psion Guide lists it as purple and its pretty cool but the party rarely scouts and I could send in the Psicrystal instead.


Damn. I have the nagging feeling that there was something else I wanted to ask but I can't recall what it was.

[Sagetim]

I think there's a disturbing lack of Mind Seed here. Don't you want to establish a secret police of you, you, you, and more you? How can the great police state operate without converting the dissidents to loyal you's? And don't forget about detect thoughts for the grunt level you's that will be doing all the hard work of thought policing.

-----------------

But on a relevant to the topic note: Where's the fabricate? Wait, no, even on the pfsrd, where's the fabricate? On a semi related note: if you caused someone to expand to say, large size, then used Crystallize on them, could you then use them as the base materials for a Psion Killer or other crystal based psionic golem? I mean, it would be rather mean, but a crystal statue that looks like the spitting image of a person has got to be worth something.

Also: I'm pretty sure the timeless trait on the astral plane means that time doesn't 'pass' for people on it, meaning they don't age or get hungry, but that doesn't mean that time doesn't keep on marching by for everyone else. If I recall right, in some earlier editions of the game going to a timeless plane was actually super dangerous, because when you returned to your normal plane, time would catch up to you. Which could result in rapidly aging, possibly even to death or dust, or just straight up starving. As a psionic character, your best defenses against that are being an elan and wearing a ring of sustenance.

But yeah, if you just want to swindle people you could find some people you don't like (or gather some broke people who are willing to take any pay you'll give them), clean them up, dress them up, and get someone to cast eagle's splendor or youthful appearance on them or what have you to pretty them up. Have them pose, pretend to be making a portrait, then crystallize them. Voila, a new masterpiece statue made of fine crystal with a reasonably pretty and young person, but with such small details that it seems like they could have been a person you met on the street. Then transport the statue far enough away from where you picked the subject up, and sell it as an art piece at auction. Your alignment may suffer, but you can probably justify your actions as cleaning up the streets to certain corrupt city officials who hate poor people and the homeless.

[Kantolin]

But on a relevant to the topic note: Where's the fabricate? Wait, no, even on the pfsrd, where's the fabricate?


Pathfinder fabricate is called modify matter: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/modify-matter

[Unbodied]

I think there's a disturbing lack of Mind Seed here. Don't you want to establish a secret police of you, you, you, and more you? How can the great police state operate without converting the dissidents to loyal you's? And don't forget about detect thoughts for the grunt level you's that will be doing all the hard work of thought policing.

-----------------

But on a relevant to the topic note: Where's the fabricate? Wait, no, even on the pfsrd, where's the fabricate? On a semi related note: if you caused someone to expand to say, large size, then used Crystallize on them, could you then use them as the base materials for a Psion Killer or other crystal based psionic golem? I mean, it would be rather mean, but a crystal statue that looks like the spitting image of a person has got to be worth something.

Also: I'm pretty sure the timeless trait on the astral plane means that time doesn't 'pass' for people on it, meaning they don't age or get hungry, but that doesn't mean that time doesn't keep on marching by for everyone else. If I recall right, in some earlier editions of the game going to a timeless plane was actually super dangerous, because when you returned to your normal plane, time would catch up to you. Which could result in rapidly aging, possibly even to death or dust, or just straight up starving. As a psionic character, your best defenses against that are being an elan and wearing a ring of sustenance.

But yeah, if you just want to swindle people you could find some people you don't like (or gather some broke people who are willing to take any pay you'll give them), clean them up, dress them up, and get someone to cast eagle's splendor or youthful appearance on them or what have you to pretty them up. Have them pose, pretend to be making a portrait, then crystallize them. Voila, a new masterpiece statue made of fine crystal with a reasonably pretty and young person, but with such small details that it seems like they could have been a person you met on the street. Then transport the statue far enough away from where you picked the subject up, and sell it as an art piece at auction. Your alignment may suffer, but you can probably justify your actions as cleaning up the streets to certain corrupt city officials who hate poor people and the homeless.Uuuh. Okay.... So this is hilariously evil and all but I think I'm going to pass on that.

Done and done on the timeless plane stuff though.



Pathfinder fabricate is called modify matter: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/modify-matter
I guess I could put Modify Matter in my Psicrown. How useful is it and is it likely to make the GM hate me?

[DrMartin]

Also: I'm pretty sure the timeless trait on the astral plane means that time doesn't 'pass' for people on it, meaning they don't age or get hungry, but that doesn't mean that time doesn't keep on marching by for everyone else. If I recall right, in some earlier editions of the game going to a timeless plane was actually super dangerous, because when you returned to your normal plane, time would catch up to you. Which could result in rapidly aging, possibly even to death or dust, or just straight up starving. As a psionic character, your best defenses against that are being an elan and wearing a ring of sustenance.
.

that may be, but checking one's sources is no fun :D although I remember from older edition that the "time catches up" effect to happen for slow-time traits, like the fey realms or something like that.

[...checks the srd]

yes, timeless does indeed work like you wrote. :smallredface: well the nomenclature they picked is at least misleading, can we agree on that? :D

so yeah, for fast crafting you need a fast-time plane.

the crystallize shenanigans is hilarious but the problem (assuming your character would find it a problem, that is) with it is that i think crystallize is not instantaneous but permanent, so your statues could be dispelled or would radiate magic, and that could hamper your swindling, depending on how savvy your average art merchant is in your setting. Also probably being a magical substance would make fabricate not work on it

Fabricate and greater fabricate are metric tons of fun, do pick them up if you can. Like a lot of other things psionics (and magic) they only work in the framework of a gentleman's agreement with the dm i think, as their utility and fun is proportional to their game-breaking potential. Running them without limitations it's almost like transitioning to a post-scarcity economy, and i kind of envy who has a GM with enough chutzpah to run a game like that :D

[Sagetim]

Oh, yeah...no, I wasn't suggesting anything that was good aligned. From a greater good perspective, using fabricate/modify matter would probably also fall under evil, because you're going to be taking food out of the mouths of craftsmen and their families...from a certain point of view. However, I prefer to see it as not being your fault that they didn't learn how to use their minds the right way, so if they can't compete with your mental shenanigans to turn raw material into finished product, then that's their problem not yours. Even with modify matter/fabricate, you're still limited in use of it in a given day based on your power points. So you can't go spamming it until you run out if you expect to be dealing with an angry mob later that day. That said, an angry mob would make for some great statuary, full of emotion and vigor.

And yes, Crystallize has the same problem that flesh to stone does on the 'permanent instead of instant' front. But if you slather a layer of Quintessence on the statue, then I don't see why a prospective buyer might suspect the statue of being the result of foul play when the quintessence would probably ping first and hopefully divert any attention. Alternatively, if you gather enough quintessence you could dump a person into it and freeze them in time. The main problem comes if someone scrapes a bit off and leaves it that way, as the exposed bit will spring a leak and likely lead to the subject's untimely demise.

That said, you could be a helluva curator for a museum. Elan immortality, a collection of Crystallized and Quintessence dunked people from various places collected over hundreds of years, set in little exhibits. And if you could get your hands on something to give you greater age resistance and or youthful appearance, you'd be set.

[Unbodied]

that may be, but checking one's sources is no fun :D although I remember from older edition that the "time catches up" effect to happen for slow-time traits, like the fey realms or something like that.

[...checks the srd]

yes, timeless does indeed work like you wrote. :smallredface: well the nomenclature they picked is at least misleading, can we agree on that? :D

so yeah, for fast crafting you need a fast-time plane.

the crystallize shenanigans is hilarious but the problem (assuming your character would find it a problem, that is) with it is that i think crystallize is not instantaneous but permanent, so your statues could be dispelled or would radiate magic, and that could hamper your swindling, depending on how savvy your average art merchant is in your setting. Also probably being a magical substance would make fabricate not work on it

Fabricate and greater fabricate are metric tons of fun, do pick them up if you can. Like a lot of other things psionics (and magic) they only work in the framework of a gentleman's agreement with the dm i think, as their utility and fun is proportional to their game-breaking potential. Running them without limitations it's almost like transitioning to a post-scarcity economy, and i kind of envy who has a GM with enough chutzpah to run a game like that :D


Oh, yeah...no, I wasn't suggesting anything that was good aligned. From a greater good perspective, using fabricate/modify matter would probably also fall under evil, because you're going to be taking food out of the mouths of craftsmen and their families...from a certain point of view. However, I prefer to see it as not being your fault that they didn't learn how to use their minds the right way, so if they can't compete with your mental shenanigans to turn raw material into finished product, then that's their problem not yours. Even with modify matter/fabricate, you're still limited in use of it in a given day based on your power points. So you can't go spamming it until you run out if you expect to be dealing with an angry mob later that day. That said, an angry mob would make for some great statuary, full of emotion and vigor.

And yes, Crystallize has the same problem that flesh to stone does on the 'permanent instead of instant' front. But if you slather a layer of Quintessence on the statue, then I don't see why a prospective buyer might suspect the statue of being the result of foul play when the quintessence would probably ping first and hopefully divert any attention. Alternatively, if you gather enough quintessence you could dump a person into it and freeze them in time. The main problem comes if someone scrapes a bit off and leaves it that way, as the exposed bit will spring a leak and likely lead to the subject's untimely demise.

That said, you could be a helluva curator for a museum. Elan immortality, a collection of Crystallized and Quintessence dunked people from various places collected over hundreds of years, set in little exhibits. And if you could get your hands on something to give you greater age resistance and or youthful appearance, you'd be set.
What has happened to this thread? :S

On the last bit, just need to make and implant a nacreleous grey sphere ioun stone. Shouldn't even that really since a lv 20 Ascendant Psion has transcended the need for flesh and become a being of pure mental energy.

[Sagetim]

What has happened to this thread? :S

On the last bit, just need to make and implant a nacreleous grey sphere ioun stone. Shouldn't even that really since a lv 20 Ascendant Psion has transcended the need for flesh and become a being of pure mental energy.

All the better to mind seed people. *nod nod*

[Unbodied]

Does it seem like a good idea to get a 2nd-level Mind Stone, research Energy Missile so that I can replace Energy Bolt with a different power? Its cheaper than getting a 3rd-level Mind Stone and researching a 3rd-level power and Energy Missile seems better than Energy Bolt in some ways.