Need help with a RP wizard build

[logic_error]

Hello, Generous people of the Playground.

I had an RP/Optimization question. In our next D&D session, I am playing a human wizard who is an apprentice to a mage of the arcane order (MotAO) (complete arcane I think). He starts with at Collegiate Wizard and Apprentice feats from complete arcane and DMG II. He is professionally an alchemist with a craft alchemy as well. Other than that I will maximize UMD (from the apprentice spellcaster), concentration, spellcraft and Knowledge arcane. I take the feat Arcane thesis at level 6.

Past level 5, I have to become a MotAO. For that, I take the cooperative spell feat at level 5.


Beginning stats are : 10 14 14 16 10 10

Books allowed are 3.5 core, complete arcane, warrior, divine and adventurer. Complete mage is NOT allowed. Neither are other supplementals.

At this point these are my RP decisions. But this does not mean I should not optimize other choices, which are:

Level 3 Metamagic feat (need it to qualify for the cooperative spell feat at level 5)
Level 7 meta magic feat (bonus from MotAO)
Level 9 feat
Spell choice for the Arcane thesis. (Bonus points if it is transmutation school, as I will probably specialize in it).

I expect the game to last till level 10 and not above!

SO any help is deeply appreciated. Please let me know what you think would be best suited to the build I am planning. :) Thanks in advance!

[Nifft]

I think you'll want Extend Spell as one of your Metamagics.

For Arcane Thesis, I dunno. Alter Self? Slow?

My favorite spell from those sources is Illusion: Phantasmal Assailants.


Heh, one fun thing for a Transmutation specialist might be Augment Familiar (C.War), in combo with an Improved Familiar feat... or even a regular familiar, augmented, in combo with a shared Alter Self (or later Polymorph).

[HammeredWharf]

MotAO is a very versatile class. At this point, your build could basically be anything. What do you want to focus on?

[logic_error]

I think you'll want Extend Spell as one of your Metamagics.

For Arcane Thesis, I dunno. Alter Self? Slow?

My favorite spell from those sources is Illusion: Phantasmal Assailants.


Heh, one fun thing for a Transmutation specialist might be Augment Familiar (C.War), in combo with an Improved Familiar feat... or even a regular familiar, augmented, in combo with a shared Alter Self (or later Polymorph).

Hi thanks for the advice! I should have mentioned earlier that I plan to drop out the familiar as I am not used to playing with it. I was planning to take some ACF instead. The Phantasmal assassin spell sounds amazing, however, its mind-affecting and will-disblief make it a bit iffy. I can not also imagine how I should use arcane thesis with it. Thoughts?


MotAO is a very versatile class. At this point, your build could basically be anything. What do you want to focus on?

I would like to focus on a thematic component here, of being a transmuter who is also an academic. The guy is a bumbling sheltered student, when thrown into battle situations can only come up with battle field control stuff and buffs/debuffs and not damage. The entire, Collegiate wizard, apprentice, MOtAO is designed around that.

Of course, the MotAO is an amazing class!! It gives me practically a freedom to choose a spell of any (even opposed schools) kind at a time I need it. So that itself is great. I have not decided to oppose schools yet, but I think I will go for enchantment and evocation opposition and call the restricted spells from the spell pool when and if I need them. I might *just* choose to specialize in conjuration though, as its immediate magic is broken and it is so damned good at low levels. The opposition schools stay the same though.


I need to figure out what spell thus can be best fitted with arcane thesis that also works with the two meta magic feats I have and still is a bit thematic. That is where I need real help.

[Nifft]

I can not also imagine how I should use arcane thesis with it. Thoughts? Chain Spell. Repeat Spell. Quicken Spell.

These seem kinda obvious -- they're good with a lot of different spells.

Especially Quicken.

[logic_error]

Chain Spell. Repeat Spell. Quicken Spell.

These seem kinda obvious -- they're good with a lot of different spells.

Especially Quicken.

Yes! But the game probably ends at level 10. SO I do not think this will really come into play :(.

[HammeredWharf]

The Phantasmal assassin spell sounds amazing, however, its mind-affecting and will-disblief make it a bit iffy. I can not also imagine how I should use arcane thesis with it. Thoughts?

Phantasmal Assailants is different from P. Assassin, but it has the same drawback. It can work, depending on the campaign, but I wouldn't focus on it.


I need to figure out what spell thus can be best fitted with arcane thesis that also works with the two meta magic feats I have and still is a bit thematic. That is where I need real help.

It should be a spell you can (and want to) spam. Damaging spells work well, but there are some less obvious choices. Dispel is a pretty good option, for example, and fits the scholar theme. However, it can be entirely useless if all you fight are big guys with clubs. Various orbs work well, as you probably know, as do Scorching Rays and Enervations. What I'm getting at is that Transmutation is a great school overall, but not that great for metamagicing, unless you take up the role of the party buffer via Chain Spell shenanigans. Unfortunately, I don't think that would work particularly well with the books you can use.

What's the rest of the party like? If it includes lots of melee characters, you could buff them through normal spells and use your MM for damaging support spells. Like Scorching Ray. Orbs are nicer, but come into play later.

A "scholar transmuter" is a difficult archetype to pull off, because Transmutation's best spells are melee/survivability buffs. It's usually a great primary school for gish types, not so much back row characters.

[Nifft]

Yes! But the game probably ends at level 10. SO I do not think this will really come into play :(.

Then what you want is Arcane Thesis on a 1st level spell.

Probably Magic Missile (if you keep Evocation) or Ray of Enfeeblement (if you keep Necromancy) or Lesser Orb of Sound (if you keep Conjuration). The +2 caster level will help a bunch with Magic Missile and Lesser Orb of Sound even before Empower or Quicken comes on line.

Probably not Mount or Identify.

[HammeredWharf]

Then what you want is Arcane Thesis on a 1st level spell.

Probably Magic Missile (if you keep Evocation) or Ray of Enfeeblement (if you keep Necromancy) or Lesser Orb of Sound (if you keep Conjuration). The +2 caster level will help a bunch with Magic Missile and Lesser Orb of Sound even before Empower or Quicken comes on line.

Going with low-lvl spells, Scorching Ray is way better than 1st level spells. It requires touch attacks to hit, sure, but you can hit multiple targets and it packs a lot of oomph. At CR 7 (+2 from Thesis) an Empowered Magic Missile deals (2,5*5+5*1)*1,5 = 26 damage on average. That's pretty weak. In comparison, an Split Scorching Ray deals 3*4*3,5*1,5 = 63 damage. Note that this is the "last stand" for Magic Missile. Afterwards, it falls off even more. At CL 9 (+2 from AT) an Split Maximised Scorching Ray would deal 4*4*6 = 96 damage, while a Maximised Empowered MM would only deal (2,5*5+5*1)*0,5+4*5+5*1 = 33,75 damage.

Scorching Ray is also weapon-like, so it can crit, benefits from Knowledge Devotion, etc.

[Nifft]

Going with low-lvl spells, Scorching Ray is way better than 1st level spells. It requires touch attacks to hit, sure, but you can hit multiple targets and it packs a lot of oomph. At CR 7 (+2 from Thesis) an Empowered Magic Missile deals (2,5*5+5*1)*1,5 = 26 damage on average. That's pretty weak. In comparison, an Split Scorching Ray deals 3*4*3,5*1,5 = 63 damage. Note that this is the "last stand" for Magic Missile. Afterwards, it falls off even more. At CL 9 (+2 from AT) an Split Maximised Scorching Ray would deal 4*4*6 = 96 damage, while a Maximised Empowered MM would only deal (2,5*5+5*1)*0,5+4*5+5*1 = 33,75 damage.

Scorching Ray is also weapon-like, so it can crit, benefits from Knowledge Devotion, etc. He can't use Devotion feats.

Split Ray is a great idea. A ray-focused Wizard could be interesting. Plenty of good debuffs and attack spells.

Scorching Ray is a good spell, and would benefit from AT (since it bumps up the major break-points and you'll actually get a 3rd ray before the game ends)... well, it's great if you can avoid fire-resistant targets, and you can hit the touch AC, and they're not incorporeal, and they lack Concealment, and they're at Close range (25 ft. +5/2 levels) rather than Medium range (100 ft. +10/level)... so yeah, it's not perfect. But it's a good spell.

[HammeredWharf]

Scorching Ray is a good spell, and would benefit from AT (since it bumps up the major break-points and you'll actually get a 3rd ray before the game ends)... well, it's great if you can avoid fire-resistant targets, and you can hit the touch AC, and they're not incorporeal, and they lack Concealment, and they're at Close range (25 ft. +5/2 levels) rather than Medium range (100 ft. +10/level)... so yeah, it's not perfect. But it's a good spell.

True, Scorching Ray has its weaknesses. Or rather, Magic Missile has some unique advantages due to its auto-hitting ways and being a force effect.

Fire resistance: Energy Substitution is almost a must for a caster focused on elemental stuff. Luckily, it costs no spell levels.

Touch AC: shouldn't be much of a problem, unless your DM uses a lot of custom monsters with specifically heightened touch AC. Then again, if your DM hates you, you've already lost.

Distance: could be a problem, although it usually isn't in typical dungeons. However, a Lesser Enlarge Rod is only 3K. Note that it affects even metamagiced Scorching Rays, because (non-Heighten) metamagic doesn't increase a spell's effective level.

Incorporeal: spells work fine on incorporeal targets.

Concealment: this one depends on the circumstances. Magic Missile auto-hits when the target has 20% concealment, but can't hit a target with total concealment at all. 20% concealment shouldn't be a huge deal with Scorching Ray, because each ray hits separately, reducing the RNG effect.

[Nifft]

Incorporeal: spells work fine on incorporeal targets. 50% of the time. The other 50%, not so much.

But again, I did say that Scorching Ray was a good spell, just that it wasn't perfect.

Magic Missile is low-damage in part because it's incredibly reliable.

Honestly, though, if it were me, I'd go for debuffs like Slow, Grease, and Ray of Enfeeblement. Split Ray would still be very effective for Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Exhaustion.

[HammeredWharf]

50% of the time. The other 50%, not so much.

Oh, that. There's some ambiguity in the "corporeal source" part in that Scorching Ray is an SR: Yes spell, so it's magical heat energy, which may or may not count as corporeal and the "corporeal source" may be the spell or the caster... anyway, it depends on the DM, is worded poorly and is probably not on-topic discussion.

Too bad Complete Mage is unavailable, because Split Ray + Metamagic School Focus is a nice low-level combo. With Arcane Thesis, Split Ray loses a lot of its low-level goodness because you're encouraged to spam one spell and something like Ray of Enfeeblement is not that great against some targets.

To be clear, I'd focus on buffs and CC spells, like Haste, various clouds, Bands of Steel, Web, Fly, Magic Weapon, Rope Trick, Alter Self, etc. They don't need a feat investment. Then I'd invest in MM feats for a damaging spells, such as Scorching Ray. Then I'd use the buffs pre-combat. In combat, I'd use one or two CC spells, followed by lots of damage. It's a bit vanilla, but it works. MotAO doesn't really change your main play style. It's just a great PRC for those "I wish I had spell X" moments.

[Nifft]

Oh, that. There's some ambiguity in the "corporeal source" part in that Scorching Ray is an SR: Yes spell, so it's magical heat energy, which may or may not count as corporeal and the "corporeal source" may be the spell or the caster... anyway, it depends on the DM, is worded poorly and is probably not on-topic discussion. There's not much ambiguity.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#incorporeality


Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, an incorporeal creature has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source—except for a force effect or damage dealt by a ghost touch weapon.

The source of a spell is the spellcaster. If you're not incorporeal, you're corporeal. It's not complex or difficult to adjudicate.


With Arcane Thesis, Split Ray loses a lot of its low-level goodness because you're encouraged to spam one spell and something like Ray of Enfeeblement is not that great against some targets. Yeah. One of the many reasons why I don't really love Arcane Thesis.

- - -

Hmm, though actually... if you're taking Arcane Thesis right at level 6, and the game ends at level 10, that's basically the sweet spot for Fireball and Empowered Fireball. You can't Quicken it, but so what. Grab Energy Substitution (Sonic) as your third Metamagic and you're ready to call down the thunder.

Long range, great damage (with AT), cheap Empowerment... it's a very solid choice.