Ways to boost AC

[Raul Leão]

Hey people,

I was looking at some monster and saw an elephant (for example). It have a basic attack called gore +22, so its a d20 + 22 to hit right? easy 30 attack.... and as i´m a sorcerer with no armor (cause of spell failure), i only have 14 AC, just with the attack bonus the elephant will always hit me. How can i get over this? Not using spells like mage armor, i want a "natural" way... and remember that im playin only the core books.

[Vhaidara]

So you're looking for an AC of around 32 without spells? I don't think anyone manages that in core.

The way you survive is spells like mirror image (does he hit the right one?), displacement (50% miss chance), and fly (elephant can't reach you).

[Jormengand]

If you don't want to use spells... why are you a sorcerer?

Regardless, bracers of armour and amulet of natural armour. (There's also a way of getting armour with +5 AC and no ASF, but I can't remember how you do that and it's not in core anyway. You can then make the armour magical.) Those are the main way of doing it. Or, use an ability like Alter Self, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object or Shapechange to turn into something with some natural armour - PAO has the advantage that you can make it permanent, so you're not wasting spell slots on it.

[Rolero]

Well, you are playing a magic caster, having low AC its the default drawback for them. But even, AC oriented classes don't have it so easily to feel secure against attacks as the one you describe. At least on lower levels.
The attack bonuses tend to scale much more quickly than the defensive ones.

As an arcane caster, your best bet for defense lies in your magic. So yes, mage armor helps, as well as the shield spell. But even so, you will have better luck with things like mirror image, blink or displacement, all afordable on early levels. If you don't want to rely on magic, you can always look for cover, but this won't suposse a big difference against attacks of that caliber.

The only way to bost heavily your AC in your case is via magic items or with some classes special abilities, like the monk and magus kensai, and different dodge bonuses.

Having access to core only things will toughen this even more.

All in all, try to improve your chances with your magic. Trust me, you will get waaaaay better results.

[balegar]

Magic items: bracers of armor can increase it 8 points, ring of protection for 5 points, amulet of natural armor for 5 points, gloves of dexterity +6 for 3 points, manual of quickness of action +5 for another +2

I doubt you can afford all that but it would increase your ac to 37.

[Raul Leão]

Well, sure im going to casts spells, but im asking if i was a fighter haha forgot to mention that, im just curious.... so they are all magic dependant anyway?

[Jormengand]

if i was a fighter

Then you would be wearing full plate +5 and could, if you wanted, have a heavy steel shield +5, giving you +14 armour and +7 shield to AC, easily beating the elephant's attack.

[Crake]

Well, sure im going to casts spells, but im asking if i was a fighter haha forgot to mention that, im just curious.... so they are all magic dependant anyway?

Oh, well, as a fighter, elephant is CR 7, so at about level 7, you'd be looking at maybe something like +2 fullplate, +1 dex, +1 ring of protection, +2 heavy shield for a total AC of 26, but-

Wait. Hold on, what elephant are you looking at that has +22 to hit? The one on the monster manual has a +16 gore, which an AC of 26 would defend against 50% of the time. Dire elephants are in the MM2, but they have +26 on their gore, not +22 (though their damage bonus is +22, maybe that's what you're seeing?)

The thing about large creatures is that they tend to have obnoxiously high bonuses to hit for their CR (due to insanely high str), but at the same time pitifully tiny ACs of their own, so it's something of a DPS race. They're always going to hit you, and you're always going to hit them. At CR 10, not much is gonna be able to defend against +26 without dedicating some serious resources into AC. This is why people suggest things like miss chance. A minor cloak of displacement (or the blurring special ability) are pretty much an always-on 20% miss chance. This is your best defense against high hit, high damage, low AC encounters.

Look at any roughly medium sized creature at the same CR and their attack bonus will be much worse, but their AC will be much better

[Raul Leão]

Im not finding the +22 haha i see just the +16... you are right.
Its more clear to me now, but i have to talk to the other players and the DM, because they all think that magic items are OP, and 1000 GP in the level 2 is impossible.... No matter what i say, they keep thinking this. I remember to ask my DM if he already have seen the wealth/level in the DMG, he said no, then i said that i read it while planning on DMing and saw that by our level the average gold is 900 (we had about 100 haha). He screamed very loud: 900? Are u crazy?

So its a thing to work on... by the time we advance in levels ill get some defensive spells, of course ill be OP(speaking of defense) being the only arcane spellcaster in the party, while they have only armor to count on. Probably they´ll found unfair that huge difference, so ill show them that we were playing wrong all the time haha. Just hope it doesn´t take so long.

[Red Fel]

The thing to remember, which others have mentioned, is that AC drops off in value as the game progresses. When enemies can use touch attacks, your armor bonus to AC becomes irrelevant. When they use spells and SLAs, your AC becomes altogether irrelevant. When they use battlefield control, your AC becomes altogether irrelevant. When they use save-or-dies, your AC becomes altogether irrelevant. And as the game progresses, enemies focus less on hitting you with pointy things and more on ending you with a thought.

AC, like HP, is a numbers game. You're an arcane caster. You don't have to play a numbers game.

The value of an AC increase drops off over time, particularly on a character who can never keep up (e.g. one who won't use heavy armor). As has been mentioned, things like miss chance are always useful, and available to anybody. Being able to fly is also useful, as it pretty much negates melee attacks almost entirely. Couple that with a utility spell like Wind Wall and you're more or less completely protected from mundane attack. After that, you can focus on your saves and your magical defenses.

[heavyfuel]

Then you would be wearing full plate +5 and could, if you wanted, have a heavy steel shield +5, giving you +14 armour and +7 shield to AC, easily beating the elephant's attack.


Elephant is CR 7.

I highly doubt a fighter would have all that by lv7. And by the time you have a +5 full plate and a +5 heavy shield, the elephant's 104HP will be irrelevant.

[marphod]

If the fighter is trying to avoid the gore: Full Plate +2, Animated Heavy Shield +1, +1 from Dex, Ring of Deflection +1, Amulet of natural armor +2, for +17. (27 AC).

Combat Expertise or Fight Defensive with 5 ranks of Tumble. That's another +3 to 5 (AC30-32).

Now, admittedly, the Fighter is swinging at -4 or so, but that reduced her chance of getting hit to 25-35%. Add in another 20% from Blink or Displacement, and that is 20-28%.

Level Appropriate, the fighter should be swinging at +7 BAB, +5 or +6 Str, +1 Weapon, +1 Morale (Bless/Inspire), +1 luck (Prayer), +2 Flank or Charge, so +18 or so. So even taking the -4 for Fighting Defensively and another -4 for Power Attack, and the fighter is hitting an elephant on around a 5-7 for their first attack and 10-12 for their iterative. Doing (since this is sword and board) d8+1 (Magic) +9 (str) + 8 (power attack) for around 23 points per swing. 2 rounds and you have a dead elephant, assuming allies do anything.

[AnonymousPepper]

Suggestion: get into Abjurant Champion if you can.

Yes, I know, that's ignoring the whole no spells thing, but seriously, AbjChampion 5 is huuuuuuge for raw AC - +13AC from Greater Luminous Armor (+14 if you're 3.PF, since full plate is 9AC in PF) and +9AC from Shield? That's beeeeg.

[Lerondiel]

Suggestion: get into Abjurant Champion if you can.

Yes, I know, that's ignoring the whole no spells thing, but seriously, AbjChampion 5 is huuuuuuge for raw AC - +13AC from Greater Luminous Armor (+14 if you're 3.PF, since full plate is 9AC in PF) and +9AC from Shield? That's beeeeg.

They're playing Core only bud

[Curmudgeon]

How's your Wisdom? In core, a Monk's Belt is a good companion to your Bracers of Armor. You might need a Periapt of Wisdom to make it useful.

[AnonymousPepper]

They're playing Core only bud

Oh sorry, I totally missed that; cut me some slack, I was beyooooond tired

...man, not even Core+Completes? That's harsh, man.

[Lerondiel]

Oh sorry, I totally missed that; cut me some slack, I was beyooooond tired

...man, not even Core+Completes? That's harsh, man.

Indeed. Once you've played your first human fighter to level 20 with 19 PHB feats, there's not a lot more left to explore.

[SinsI]

[Everything you need (http://aaronwiki.us/index.php?title=Armor_Class_Guide) to know about AC and ways to boost it.

[Nyaa]

i have to talk to the other players and the DM, because they all think that magic items are OP, and 1000 GP in the level 2 is impossible.... No matter what i say, they keep thinking this. I remember to ask my DM if he already have seen the wealth/level in the DMG, he said no, then i said that i read it while planning on DMing and saw that by our level the average gold is 900 (we had about 100 haha). He screamed very loud: 900? Are u crazy?

I think other posters missed this elephant (pun intended). Challenge Rating and Wealth By Level is in fact the same system. It might not be noticeable at level 2 or 3, but by level 5-10 characters with few or no magic items will struggle or outright die to CR-appropriate enemies.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Beyond early levels, AC without significant investment will not protect you from a foe's first/primary attack. That's not its point by then. Hit points inflate far faster than damage values. The job of AC is to stop iterative/secondary attacks and to make Power Attack less useful. As you go higher in level, you will take damage more often, but have much less chance of being killed by any one attack. You'll also get attacked more times, though. That's what AC is meant to be for. To minimize damage, not totally protect you.

That being said, it can be pretty easy to get stupidly high AC if you want to, plus all the other defenses mentioned, like miss % and mirror image, or just flying out of reach to begin with. All of which are a better investment than another +1 or 2 to AC. But even just with AC, if you get a good dex score and incrementally upgrade half a dozen different AC items -- (mithral and/or twilight, if necessary) armor, (mithral and/or twilight, if necessary) shield, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, gloves of dex, dusty rose iuon stone -- you can get good results. For example, upgrading a ring of protect +1 to +2 costs 6000 gp; the iuon stone is only 5000 gp, so you get that first.
You can also fight defensively AND/or use Combat Expertise to inflate AC higher. Elephants (and all animals, and most large brutes) have a high to hit but utter crap AC themselves, so you can afford to tank your to hit for more AC when fighting them.

[ericgrau]

1 hit usually won't kill you, 3 may. You want to defend against secondaries at minimum, and if you can get the primary to miss that's a bonus. At least most of them.

So at least 21 AC, and preferably 26 AC. I assume you're level 9 to be fighting CR 7; you shouldn't be going against them 1v1 at least at level 7. Maybe 4v2 but then you are less likely to be the target too. 2 of them is already EL 9 which is difficult for 4 level 7 characters.

I can see why the OP wouldn't want to use spells because they take time to set up. You can however get mage armor up 24 hours and false life too. As a sorcerer just cast them multiple times ahead of time, so you never get ambushed with your defenses down. Yeah I would avoid round/level spells though because you could get ambushed and/or not contribute to the fight with those. A couple on emergency scrolls might be nice as backups like shield and maybe mirror image. But shield is a lot cheaper to scroll and at your level just as effective if you have an ok AC from other things.

So let's see:
14 + 4 (mage armor) + 2 (+1 mithril buckler, no ASF, no non-proficiency penalty) + 1 (ring of protection) + 1 (amulet of natural armor) = 22 for only 6,000 gp. Note that the buckler doesn't stack with a shield spell.

If you are about to enter a dungeon then a scroll of alter self lasts 30 minutes and if you change into a troglodyte you can get +6 natural armor AC for a total of 28. Since the amulet of natural armor enhances your existing natural armor (for example from +6 to +7), the two can be used together. In the wilderness alter self isn't as useful though since you need to waste a round on it. Still helps.

[Necroticplague]

I think other posters missed this elephant (pun intended). Challenge Rating and Wealth By Level is in fact the same system. It might not be noticeable at level 2 or 3, but by level 5-10 characters with few or no magic items will struggle or outright die to CR-appropriate enemies.

My favorite example: level 20 fighter with no magical equipment vs. a ghost commoner 1. The latter will always kill the former, despite being so pathetic the fighter wouldn't get XP from the encounter.

[Renen]

Elephant is CR 7.

I highly doubt a fighter would have all that by lv7. And by the time you have a +5 full plate and a +5 heavy shield, the elephant's 104HP will be irrelevant.

You can even say it would be irrelephant!

[atemu1234]

You can even say it would be irrelephant!

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