What counts as a shapechanger by RAW?

[NNescio]

From the spell description for Moonbeam:


... A shapechanger makes its saving throw with disadvantage. If it fails, it also instantly reverts to its original form...

And Polymorph:


... A shapechanger automatically succeeds on this saving throw...

Obviously, any monster with the (shapechanger) tag/'subtype' under its stat block (and/or the corresponding shapechanger trait) explicitly counts as a shapechanger. There's no question about that.

But what about creatures transformed by spells (e.g. Polymorph/Alter Self) or the druid's wildshape class feature? By RAW, they don't count, right?

[hymer]

It can be (and has been) argued both ways. The question is whether 'shapechanger' is meant as a game term, or as a description of certain creatures.
If you're the DM, pick the one you like. If you're a player, ask the DM.

[Daishain]

I'm actually inconsistent (terminology wise) on my ruling for those two.

Moonbeam affected everything that was not in its natural form. Polymorph was ineffective against shapechanger's whose ability to change shape was innate. IE, actual shapechangers, Druids, and a couple other things, but not people under a spell.

[Vogonjeltz]

Obviously, any monster with the (shapechanger) tag/'subtype' under its stat block (and/or the corresponding shapechanger trait) explicitly counts as a shapechanger. There's no question about that.

But what about creatures transformed by spells (e.g. Polymorph/Alter Self) or the druid's wildshape class feature? By RAW, they don't count, right?

Yes, they don't count because there's no written rule saying they do.

Someone could make a rules as intended argument, but not a rules as written argument.

[Tenmujiin]

I'm actually inconsistent (terminology wise) on my ruling for those two.

Moonbeam affected everything that was not in its natural form. Polymorph was ineffective against shapechanger's whose ability to change shape was innate. IE, actual shapechangers, Druids, and a couple other things, but not people under a spell.

I use this ruling with the slight change that polymorph is ineffective against targets with shapechange or a similar spell active.

[ImSAMazing]

Isnt there a 'shapechanger' tag for monsters in the MM?

[Tenmujiin]

Isnt there a 'shapechanger' tag for monsters in the MM?

Yes but this thread is more about what else counts as a shapechanger

[Kryx]

Yes but this thread is more about what else counts as a shapechanger
They are implying that it is that the tag counts as a shapechanger.

[Safety Sword]

I'll just leave this here:

Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?416273-Are-Druids-Shape-Changers)

[NNescio]

After going through the MM I believe wildshaped druids and polymorphed creatures do not count as shapechangers both RAW and RAI. The reason is because of the "Change Shape" action available to creatures like metallic dragons, devas, couatls, night hags, lizardfold shamans, onis. This ability is more similar to wildshaping and polymorph (generally the AC, physical stats, movement options and senses shifts to the new form, unlike Shapechanger, with some exceptions like the Oni), and all creatures in the MM with the Change Shape action explicitly have neither the Shapechanger subtype nor the Shapechanger trait (Shapechangers usually retain all their stats except for movement options).

Clearly, the "Change Change" action is different from the Shapechanger subtype and trait. Furthermore, within the Monster Manual, both "Change Shape" and the Shapechanger subtype and trait are mutually exclusive; All shapechangers do not have the "Change Shape" action, and all creatures with the "Change Shape" action have neither the Shapechanger subtype nor trait.

Wildshaping and Polymorph grant neither the Shapechanger subtype nor trait. Therefore, RAW, Wildshaped druids and Polymorphed creatures are not Shapechangers (unless they somehow change into a creature with the Shapechanger subtype/trait).

Wildshaping and Polymorph function more closely to most iterations of "Change Shape" (replacing game statistics) in the MM instead of the unspecified shapechanging action granted by the Shapechanger subtype and trait (retaining game statistics). Furthermore, based on case examples (i.e. creatures with the "Change Shape" action) in the MM, the capability to change one's shape does not necessarily qualify one for the Shapechanger subtype/trait. If the developers intended for all creatures with the ability to change shape (or otherwise not in their natural form, whether willing or unwilling) to be Shapechangers, then they would have made creatures with the Change Shape action like metallic dragons to be Shapechangers as well. Clearly, they have not done so. Therefore, RAI, Wildshaped druids and Polymorphed creatures are not Shapechangers.

Q.E.D.

(To use a 3.5 analogy, 5e's Shapechanger is equivalent to 3.5's Change Shape, while 5e's Change Shape is equivalent to 3.5's Alternate Form. They are not the same thing in both editions.)

[Malifice]

I actualy had this come up in my campaign last week. Druid v werewolf.

I ruled 'shapechanger' Means the 'shapechanger' sub type (so Druids are immune).

[Sutanisu]

One argument is that Polymorphed creatures don't count as shapechangers because a 10th level transmutation wizard has the "Shapechanger" ability that allows them to free cast polymorph once/short or long rest (CR 1 or lower) and a person who is not shapechanger can't free cast these type of transmutation spells.
Shapechanger could arguably be 14th lvl moon druids, 9th lvl shapechanger spell, 20th lvl druids that Wildshape at will, 15th lvl Warlocks with an invocation to cast alterself at will, changeling race, probably shapeshifter race, etc...

But allowing moon beam to affect polymorph as a DM could help balance its power, though it's up to you to decide that to make that balance helps everybody have fun in the table or not.

For example, if you have a PC that loves Moon Beam, then you can try to abuse Polymorph to become a strong T-Rex or something similar as a deadly BBEG encounter and make moon beam work with it, then the PC with Moon Beam could feel happy and everybody could be working on keeping the T-Rex inside the Moon Beam spell

[Unoriginal]

From the spell description for Moonbeam:



And Polymorph:



Obviously, any monster with the (shapechanger) tag/'subtype' under its stat block (and/or the corresponding shapechanger trait) explicitly counts as a shapechanger. There's no question about that.

But what about creatures transformed by spells (e.g. Polymorph/Alter Self) or the druid's wildshape class feature? By RAW, they don't count, right?

If you follow the letter of the rule, a shapechanger is what is explicitly identified as a shapechanger, and nothing else.

Followimg the letter of the rule does not work well, and is not expected by the game.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: What is Thread Necromany, by RAW?