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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class ƎƧЯƎVИI [PEACH, WIP, looking for suggestions]



ben-zayb
2015-08-01, 11:05 AM
Yesterday, as I was thinking of making a different homebrew class, my ideas got more and more diverged from the original theme that I ended up with this "invert everything" class. I just typed up my ideas as they pop-up ih my head, and so the current form is still basically a poorly-organized, feature-lacking, bare-bones result.

Thus, aside from honest evaluations and critique, I'm also requesting for suggestions concerning the proper level-placement of abilities, in case some of them turn out to be inappropriately ranked. I'm also open for suggestions of more inversions and class features (most notably, this class has no capstone yet), as the abilities list are very sparse so far. Also, whoever's got a better class name and names for inversions, please suggest so!

With that, I give you all my thanks for giving this class a read. And so, let's proceed!



ƎƧЯƎVИI

"On the world of the Sklavadok, the trash takes you out!"

http://40.media.tumblr.com/c77a6fe9c95523ce0ba6995bb8391755/tumblr_ml7f8gE6LC1r6oqago1_r5_500.jpg
Collapse. Sakanade (http://lizbrid.tumblr.com/post/47877494386/collapse-sakanade), art by Lizbrid, original image by Kubo Tite




Esrevni are born out of the very concepts antithetical to the building blocks of what constitute our version of the real world. Despite their desire for normalcy, their anomalous existence itself intrudes and twists the world to conform to its own version of reality.


Alignment: Unless born from a culture with specific strong alignment tendencies, Esrevni have no particular attachment to an alignment.
Religion: Esrevni having no particular attachment to an alignment causes them to not have any particular attachment to any religion too, unless born from a culture that worships a particular deity or group of deity.
Races: It seems that the birth of Esrevni occur more, the closer a race is on matching a humanoid anatomy. So far, there have been no accounts of Esrevni being from someone born as an Aberration.
Other Classes: Various classes have differing impressions of the Esrevni, but are mostly have the common view of those belonging to the class as "weird", "unorthodox", or "lucky".
Role: Depending on her choice of inversions, a Esrevni may be able to fulfill the role of buffer, debuffer, scrapper, healer, scout, and other unusual utility roles.
Adaptation: The unusual standards of normalcy may be attributed to being from the Far Realms and the aberrations that spawn from such places.


Esrevni's have the following game statistics.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Abilities: Charisma is normally important for the Esrevni's inversion DCs, and Constitution normally keeps the Esrevni
alive for longer. However, an Esrevni can still remain moderately functional even with poor ability scores all around.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Starting Age: As Monk
Starting Gold: As Monk

Class Skills
All skills that aren't train-only are class skills to the Esrevni.

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier


LevelBABFortRefWillSpecial
Inversions
1st+0+0+0+2Inversions (Meso), Contaminate
2
2nd+1+0+0+3
3
3rd+2+1+1+3
5
4th+3+1+1+4Bathyal Embrace
6
5th+3+1+1+4
8
6th+4+2+2+5
9
7th+5+2+2+5Inversions (up to Bathyal)
11
8th+6/+1+2+2+6
12
9th+6/+1+3+3+6
14
10th+7/+2+3+3+7Abyssal Embrace
15
11th+8/+3+3+3+7
17
12th+9/+4+4+4+8
18
13th+9/+4+4+4+8Inversions (up to Abyssal)
20
14th+10/+5+4+4+9
21
15th+11/+6/+1+5+5+9
23
16th+12/+7/+2+5+5+10Hadal Embrace
24
17th+12/+7/+2+5+5+10
26
18th+13/+8/+3+6+6+11
27
19th+14/+9/+4+6+6+11Inversions (up to Hadal)
29
20th+15/+10/+5+6+6+12
30



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Esrevni.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Esrevni are proficient with all simple weapons. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.


Inversions: An Esrevni's innate opposition to our reality afflicts her with abilities that change how the world affects her. As she grows in power, so does the depth at which the world's state of normalcy around her gets twisted.

An Esrevni begins play possessing two inversions. As she gains more level, she gains more inversions, as shown in the table above. Any required Difficulty Class for saving throws against an inversion is 10 + half the Esrevni's HD + the Esrevni's Charisma modifier.

Each inversion is an extraordinary ability that forms a pair with another inversion. A pair consists of a core inversion, which directly affects the Esrevni, and a field inversion, which directly affects those around* the Esrevni, but not her. An Esrevni gains the benefits from all of her unpaired inversion, but she may only benefit from one side of an inversion pair at a time. Inversions can't be lost or gained via means other than Contaminate.

There are four stages of inversions, representing the depth of tears in the known reality an Esrevni's inversions are causing: Meso, Bathyal, Abyssal, and Hadal. At 1st level, only Meso inversions can be gained. Bathyal, Abyssal, and Hadal inversions can be gained starting 7th level, 13th level, and 19th level, respectively.

As a swift action or move action, an Esrevni can switch which "side" of an inversion pair she may benefit from. As a standard action, she can switch any amount of inversion pairs.

*field inversions affect those in the Esrevni's space, and all squares adjacent to it.


Contaminate (Ex): An Esrevni can infect other creatures (or objects, if applicable) with her inversions. An Esrevni who hits with a weapon attack can choose to forgo dealing damage and instead temporarily transfer any inversion that she possesses to the target. Basically, the target gains the chosen extraordinary ability, while the Esrevni herself loses it. While contaminating, the inversion treats the target as though it is the Esrevni. Like the Esrevni, any creature or object can't gain the benefit from both sides of an inversion pair at the same time, even from different inversion sources, so any attempts to contaminate this way always fails. An Esrevni can only contaminate an object that weights no greater than 30 x 2^(half your level, round down) lbs.

Contaminate can last for up to 1 round/level, although the Esrevni can actually end it prematurely without taking any action. If the target is willing, she can contaminate with a touch in place of an attack.


Bathyal Embrace (Ex): Beginning 4th level, the Esrevni can switch any amount of inversion pairs as a swift action or a move action. Additionally, she may switch inversion pairs even while normally not capable of taking actions (e.g. being stunned, unconscious, or even dead)


Abyssal Embrace (Ex): Beginning 10th level, switching inversion pairs no longer require action while on the Esrevni's turn, and she may now switch a single inversion pair as an immediate action.


Hadal Embrace (Ex): Beginning 15th level, switching inversion pairs no longer require action.

ben-zayb
2015-08-01, 11:07 AM
Inversions

Inversions are extraordinary abilities that are gained by Esrevni. Any required Difficulty Class for saving throws against an inversion is 10 + half the Esrevni's HD + the Esrevni's Charisma modifier.

Each inversion is an extraordinary ability that forms a pair with another inversion. A pair** consists of a core inversion, which directly affects the Esrevni, and a field inversion, which directly affects those around* the Esrevni, but not her. An Esrevni gains the benefits from all of her unpaired inversion, but she may only benefit from one side of an inversion pair at a time. Inversions can't be lost or gained via means other than Contaminate.

There are four stages of inversions, representing the depth of tears in the known reality an Esrevni's inversions are causing: Meso, Bathyal, Abyssal, and Hadal. At 1st level, only Meso inversions can be gained. Bathyal, Abyssal, and Hadal inversions can be gained starting 7th level, 13th level, and 19th level, respectively.

As a swift action or move action, an Esrevni can switch which "side" of an inversion pair she may benefit from. As a standard action, she can switch any amount of inversion pairs.

*field inversions affect those in the Esrevni's space, and all squares adjacent to it.
**for ease of use, the inversions are referred to as either "Core <Pair Name>" or "Field <Pair Name>", such as "Core Cultivated Ruin".


The inversion entries follows this format:
<Inversion Pair Name>

Core: <inversion description>
Field: <inversion description>


1. Core Inversions only directly affect the Esrevni, as denoted by the use of 2nd-person pronouns.
2. Field Inversions only directly affect those around the Esrevni, but not the Esrevni herself. In practice, an Esrevni can let herself be affected by a Field Inversion by contaminating any object in her possession, such that the contaminating Field Inversion temporarily treats the object to be its current Esrevni.
3. Inversions descriptions aren't looped. For example, the inversion of A to B, and of B to A, will happen concurrently, and thus will never interact with each other.
4. Brackets in the description denotes two descriptions that more or less follow the same line of parameters and thought.
Example: [Penalties] to rolls and AC, become instead.
Should be read as: Penalties to rolls and AC become bonuses instead, while bonuses to rolls and AC become penalties instead.
5. Field Inversions that refer to more than one creature function as long as at least one of the "participating" creatures is within the Field.
Example: Whenever a creature would be perceived by another creature's special sense (e.g. blindsight, mindsight, touchsight, etc.), the former would be the one who perceives that latter instead, as though it had the special sense.
Should be read as: Whenever a creature in the Field would be perceived by the special sense of any other creature from anywhere, it would be the one who perceives the latter instead, as though it had the special sense. Likewise, whenever any creature from anywhere would be perceived by the special sense of a creature in the Field, it would be the one who perceives the said creature in the Field instead, as though it had the special sense.
6. Italicized texts are for short clarifications, or examples.

List

NameCoreField
[B]MESOINVERSIONS
Cultivated Ruinswitch skill rank requirementswitch +/- modifiers to rolls and AC
Heretic Devotionswitch alignments of actionsswitch alignments for effects
Overshadow OpportunityAoO-taker provokes AoOflat-foot-attacker becomes flatfooted
Pathfindingswitch +/- speed modifiersswitch move direction
Scattered Wavessee the unseen, hear the unheardswitch darkness/light
Spanner Pileupuntrigger the triggeredtrigger the untriggered
Trespasser's Prerogativeextraplanar becomes nativeopen what's closed
Weakness is Strengthyour worse defenses succeedheavier load for the stronger
BATHYAL INVERSIONS
Chelonian Tempothe slow goes first!blitz-ing causes flatfootedness
Counterclockswitch immediate/std actionaction denial becomes economy
Gift of Afflictionswitch +/- modifiers to ability scoreability damage heals ability score
Meek's Mightthe worse competitor winsswitch size factors
Motion Undeniedmove-prevention frees youworse balance succeeds
Hunters Huntedtrack the trackersee the seer
Twisted Fateswitch percentage chanceswitch failure/success chance
ABYSSAL INVERSIONS
Mortality Reflectionlive by losing HPhardness & DR increase damage
Dweomer Unweavingswitch magic immunitiesswitch magic/antimagic area
Path Erasureaffect incorporeal or etherealresearch the researcher
Regressed Futurememories are from futureaction economy becomes denial
Road Untraveledtravel-prevention transports youswitch travel direction
Strength is Weaknessyour worse offenses succeedstrength weakens others
Zen Delusionsleeping wakes you upone's mind-control controls its own
HADAL INVERSIONS
Assault Realitydisbelieve realityinvert reality in a large area
Dimensionl-Temporal Inversiotime flows backwardsempty spaces become full


Descriptions
Cultivated Ruin
Core: To use a particular skill, you must be without a rank in it if it's train-only, and with at least 1 rank in it if it isn't.
Field: [Penalties] to rolls and AC, become instead. Attack rolls and scaling modifiers (e.g. from BAB, Power Attack, Manyshot, and size differences) are not affected until level 7, although distance modifiers aren't affected at all.


Heretic Devotion
Core: Your [Good] and [Lawful] deeds instead register as [Evil] and [Chaotic] deeds, respectively.
Field: [Good] and [Lawful] are instead treated as [Evil] and [Chaotic], respectively, for purposes of how effects and abilities affects them.


Overshadow Opportunity
Core: Whenever you would make an attack of opportunity, you provoke an attack of opportunity instead, which your enemies are forced to take if possible.
Field: Creatures who would successfully hit another creature denied of DEX bonus to AC, instead miss and are treated as flat-footed on the next attack roll against them.


Pathfinding
Core: [Reductions] to your movement rate becomes of the same factor instead [I](e.g. 2 squares of snow or any amount of continuous squares of Solid Fog only cost 1 square to traverse)
Field: Movement (i.e. from one square to another) towards a particular direction becomes movement towards the opposite direction instead. Falling via losing this ability doesn't cause falling damage. Projectiles from ranged attacks are only affected if the relevant BAB is less than yours.


Scattered Waves
Core: You can perfectly perceive those that are either invisible, inaudible, hidden, or are Figment illusions, but nothing else.
Field: Areas of [darkness] become areas of instead. Its effect lingers for 1 min/level and dispels Silence effects as well as effects bearing the Light or Darkness descriptor, with effective levels not greater than half your level.


Spanner Pileup
Core: Whenever you would trigger either a trap, a readied action, or a contingency (such as from a Contingency spell or from a Contingent Spell), it is instead suppressed from being triggered for the rest of the round
Field: Once per round, a trap, readied action, or contingency, chosen randomly, is triggered.


Trespasser's Prerogative
Core: Planes where you are considered [Extraplanar], become planes where you are considered [Native] instead. Banishment and similar effects transport you to your choice of a plane that you're Native to.
Field: Any manner of [closed] portals, such as in doors, locks, containers, or planar portals, become [opened] instead. Their Dispel or Open Lock DCs, if any, are increased by 5 + level.


Weakness is Strength
Core: Attack rolls against you or your equipments succeed instead by being lower than the AC, and your saving throws succeed instead by being lower than the DC.
Field: While carried by a creature, any object's weight is heavier by a factor of 2^(carrier's STR mod).
Chelonian Tempo
Core: For your order in the initiative, being Nth becomes being Nth to the last instead, regardless of your initiative roll result.
Field: During the surprise round and first round of combat, only those who have already acted are flatfooted.


Counterclock
Core: Actions that require [immediate] actions require [standard] actions instead.
Field: Being limited to only either a standard or a move action in a particular round, instead grants an additional move action.


[B]Gift of Affliction
Core: to your ability scores are instead [penalties], except for purposes of determining HP. Ability Score changes due to aging doesn't count.
Field: Any set amount of [Ability Damage] to a particular ability score becomes the same amount of [ability score healing] to it instead. Ability Drain counts as 2 points of Ability Damage for this purpose.


[B]Meek's Might
Core: Opposed rolls involving you succeed by having the lower result, instead of higher
Field: Any factors based on size, such as bonuses or size limits, are switched likewise

Switched Pairs
ColossalFine
GargantuanDiminutive
HugeTiny
LargeSmall



Motion Undenied
Core: Those that would completely prevent you from moving from your space, instead gives you the benefit of an extraordinary Freedom of Movement (as the spell) for one round.
Field: Balance checks succeed by being lower than the DC. With this inversion, balancing on air is just as difficult as balancing on the clouds.


Hunters Hunted
Core: You can use the Survival skill to follow the scent and the tracks of anyone who either are using a Divination or Clairsentience effect to locate you, have the Favored Enemy class feature, have the Urban Tracking feat, or have the Track feat, regardless of not having the right feats to do so.
Field: Whenever a creature would be perceived by another creature's special sense (e.g. blindsight, mindsight, touchsight, etc.), the former would be the one who perceives that latter instead, as though it had the special sense.


Twisted Fate
Core: Percentile Die rolls against you have an opposite probability of success/failure (e.g. concealment gives you 80% miss chance).
Field: Percentile Die rolls for a chance at [automatic failure] become rolls for [automatic success] instead (e.g. miss chance becomes hit chance).
Mortality Reflection
Core: Instead of being dead by being below -10 HP, and dying and unconscious by being below 0 HP, you instead become dead by being above 10 HP, and dying and unconscious above 0 HP. Unlike other inversions, you can only Contaminate creatures that are either willing, unconscious, dazed, or dead.
Field: Energy Resistances, Hardness, and Damage Reduction, increase the damage taken by an appropriate amount, instead. Regeneration's damage conversion is from nonlethal into lethal, instead.


Dweomer Unweaving
Core: Magical effects only affect you if you would normally be immune to or unaffected by it (e.g. fireball against a fire elemental, or lightning bolt in an antimagic field). Being unaffected by virtue of Spell Resistance, a successful save, or missed attacks, do not count.
Field: [Antimagic fields] function like [normal magic areas], instead. (Dead-Magic areas inherit the relevant change too).


Path Erasure
Core: You treat those that are and/or [Ethereal] as [corporeal] and/or [not ethereal] instead.
Field: Whenever a creature would successfully receive any sort of new information pertaining to another creature, the latter will instantly know that sort of new information pertaining to the former, instead. Sensing or perceiving, by itself, doesn't count as gathering information for this purpose.


[B]Regressed Future
Core: By concentrating for 10 minutes, your memory changes to contain the future instead of the past, although not clear enough to perfectly remember the future events. The effect is similar to an extraordinary Divination, using your level as caster level.
Field: Those taking an additional [I](i.e. beyond their normal action limits for the round) full-round action, standard action, swift action, or immediate action, hop forward in real-time instead, reappearing at the beginning of their next real-time turn.


Road Untraveled
Core: Those that would keep you from making extradimensional travel or from moving from your square, instead banishes you to your native plane and prevents you from leaving that plane for 1 hour.
Field: Instantaneous transportation effect to move away from the current location, instead instantaneously transports another creature or an unattended object weighing less than 50lbs, from the intended location to the current location. The target is randomly selected whenever the source of the effect don't specify a target, nothing meets the specification, or more than one target meet the specification.


Strength is Weakness
Core: Your attack rolls succeed instead by being lower than the AC, and saving throws against you succeed instead by being lower than the DC.
Field: Creatures gain negative modifiers to their AC and their rolls, equal to your STR mod.


Zen Delusion
Core: Whenever you would fall unconscious, you instead "wake up": resetting everything and everyone to the state they were at the beginning of your previous turn, except you keep the memories from this "dream" and, for 1 hour, you gain immunity from being unconscious.
Field: [Mind-Affecting] effects only affect their source instead.
"Life and Death" Inversion
Core: ???
Field: ???


Assault Reality
Core: You become able to deny the existence of anything or anyone to yourself. Disbelieving any unattended object is a DC 30 Will Save. Disbelieving a creature (including its equipment, abilities, and anything under its control) is DC 20 + its Will Save modifier; however, such a creature may spend 1 round (in real-time, on the plane's same Time trait) to reassert its existence to you by succeeding on a Will Save. Otherwise, anything and anyone you disbelieve can no longer affect you in any immediate, direct, way, except for reasserting its existence as mentioned above.
Field: At your prerogative, each creature and object gain the benefit of up to one non-Hadal core inversion of your choice, for as long as that inversion affects you. Unwilling creatures may try succeeding on a Will Save, once per round as a free action, to keep this inversion from affecting them for that round. Unlike other field inversions, this affects all squares within (your level x 10) ft. As with Contaminate, you may remove the benefit on a creature without taking any action.


Dimensional-Temporal Inversio
Core: Durations on you count up until they reach their original maximum duration, after which they simply cease to be. Your aging is reversed, including the effects of different age categories (e.g. Venerable to Old grants +3 to STR/DEX/CON and -1 to INT/WIS/CHA). Your HP and conditions revert to their state from the previous round, possibly undoing conditions entirely; however, being Dead can only be reverted once per 8 hours per person, and HP change from CON increase due to age aren't counted.
Field: Squares that [don't] block line of sight, line of effect, or movement/passage through, [do]. This effect extends to planes coexistent with its plane of origin, and even affects gaseous or incorporeal creatures. Unlike other inversions, you don't lose this ability when contaminating others as long as the total duration of all such contaminations is less than 1 round/level.

ben-zayb
2015-08-01, 11:08 AM
And...a final post for good measure.

Allez critique! (and as the introduction explains, lots and lots of suggestions will be appreciated for filling up this class)

Note: change due to typos, rules/reminder texts, and clarifications, aren't listed.
8/3/15: Added a final, level 19, stage, for Life's Reflection, and other future powerful inversions.
8/8/15: Added a few more inversions, and rewrote how Inversion works for better clarity (at least, that's the intent).
8/9/15: Added an inversion list for a quick summary of abilities
8/10/15: Added description on the table for when a particular Inversion stage is attainable.

Elandris Kajar
2015-08-01, 11:12 AM
This is a fantastic class idea. They should definitely have a strong inclination towards chaos. Also, how many inversions can they activate at once?

ben-zayb
2015-08-01, 11:15 AM
This is a fantastic class idea. They should definitely have a strong inclination towards chaos. Also, how many inversions can they activate at once?

Ooh, my first customer! All Inversions are passive effects, and by level 20 you have 20 passive effects "active" at a time. The use of Contaminate to imbue others with symptoms, however, is once per attack (as a substitute to dealing damage), and one symptom at a time.

EdroGrimshell
2015-08-01, 12:19 PM
This is a tank's worst nightmare, just with Weakness is Strength (inflicted on the opponent), Cultivated Ruin, and Life's Reflection you can make a tank useless against you. Add the second Symptom of Death Reflection to the mix and tanky monsters will get WIPED by you.

Heck, first Symptom of Life's Reflection can be used to kill off a hydra by landing one attack on it then hit and running until it's own fast healing kills it off.

It's an unorthodox, unique, and downright awesome playstyle that I want to try.

EDIT: As for abilities, it may actually be a good idea to give it an ability that lets it gain a bonus or penalty to various things, the ability to make touch attacks for Contaminate (though they've already got plenty going for them in terms of hitting so it's likely that's not necessary), and something to give them flight of a sorts (Ex: "Oh, a gorge, well, I'll just walk on the ceiling then." invert gravity for them so they "fall" to the ceiling and use Life's Reflection to turn the fall damage to healing.)

Speaking of, you may want to make Life's Reflection a high tier ability instead, it's the most impactful one of all of them thus far. It's the strongest one and should be labelled as such, probably for a level 19 reserve for extremely powerful abilities (which would make for a nice pseudo-capstone until a better one is thought up).

EDIT2: Maybe an Inversion to invert a feat's effect, like taking Combat Expertise and letting it give a bonus to Attack Rolls at the cost of a Penalty to AC or for Power Attack to lower Damage to up Attack Rolls.

This also makes Flaws more useful.

Xallace
2015-08-01, 06:33 PM
How does the ability that makes you a native of all planes except your own interact with Planar Banishment and similar abilities?

ben-zayb
2015-08-02, 12:53 AM
This is a tank's worst nightmare, just with Weakness is Strength (inflicted on the opponent), Cultivated Ruin, and Life's Reflection you can make a tank useless against you. Add the second Symptom of Death Reflection to the mix and tanky monsters will get WIPED by you.

Heck, first Symptom of Life's Reflection can be used to kill off a hydra by landing one attack on it then hit and running until it's own fast healing kills it off.

It's an unorthodox, unique, and downright awesome playstyle that I want to try.Thanks! By the way, Contaminate is limited to 1 round/level, so it would take some time to hit-and-run someone, especially if its a hydra who can attack itself 5x per round to regain HP (assuming it figured that out)


EDIT: As for abilities, it may actually be a good idea to give it an ability that lets it gain a bonus or penalty to various things, Any suggestions on how would that go about, given the fluff? The only one I can currently think of is Disowned Familiarity letting you be better/worse where you would normally be untrained/trained.


the ability to make touch attacks for Contaminate (though they've already got plenty going for them in terms of hitting so it's likely that's not necessary), and something to give them flight of a sorts (Ex: "Oh, a gorge, well, I'll just walk on the ceiling then." invert gravity for them so they "fall" to the ceiling and use Life's Reflection to turn the fall damage to healing.)I actually already had 2 3D-movement inversions: Pathfinding allows you to walk on ceilings, while Motion Undenied already let's you balance yourself on the clouds (or below the clouds, if you are under the first symptom of Pathfinding).


Speaking of, you may want to make Life's Reflection a high tier ability instead, it's the most impactful one of all of them thus far. It's the strongest one and should be labelled as such, probably for a level 19 reserve for extremely powerful abilities (which would make for a nice pseudo-capstone until a better one is thought up).I'm actually thinking of splitting the inversion, so with your suggestion I'd bring the first symptom to Hadal stage, because the second symptom isn't that broken considering it's a legit way to be a healer of sorts (especially combat healing, as an emergency). Any suggestions on what new symptoms to pair with these two?


EDIT2: Maybe an Inversion to invert a feat's effect, like taking Combat Expertise and letting it give a bonus to Attack Rolls at the cost of a Penalty to AC or for Power Attack to lower Damage to up Attack Rolls.

This also makes Flaws more useful.Twisted Ruin already does this, among other things. Distance penalties are of course, still exempted, otherwise you get +NI to attack and spot checks against someone from the opposite side of the universe. Twisted Ruin also allows interesting and/or visually impressive weaponcraft, such as wielding Colossal Weapons, 2H+1H or 1H+1H Dual Wielding, Exotic Weapon Wielding, Non-Throwing Throwing, Rapid Shot + Dual Wielding, and any/all combination of both (which is why it's not an entry-level inversion).

And I agree, this would introduce another dimension to +/- type of Feat, Flaws, and Traits

How does the ability that makes you a native of all planes except your own interact with Planar Banishment and similar abilities?Ah, I should have cleared that up. You choose where to be banished. It's also intended to be combo'd with Road Untraveled, for a 1hour-cooldown-per-person Greater Planeshift equivalent. Do you have any other idea in mind on how this could be improved, or maybe an alternative idea on how this will be implemented?

EdroGrimshell
2015-08-02, 07:03 AM
I'm actually thinking of splitting the inversion, so with your suggestion I'd bring the first symptom to Hadal stage, because the second symptom isn't that broken considering it's a legit way to be a healer of sorts (especially combat healing, as an emergency). Any suggestions on what new symptoms to pair with these two?

Both Symptoms should be moved, Life's Reflection completely changes the game. Everyone I've asked so far in regards to it has said that one ability is broken, and I agree. Not just the health limit but the ability to heal from being damaged makes you near invulnerable unless the opponent has a form of unlimited healing. At early levels, this one ability makes you damn near immortal.

The entire thing needs to be moved to a higher tier. Possibly the highest tier.

ben-zayb
2015-08-02, 07:25 AM
Both Symptoms should be moved, Life's Reflection completely changes the game. Everyone I've asked so far in regards to it has said that one ability is broken, and I agree. Not just the health limit but the ability to heal from being damaged makes you near invulnerable unless the opponent has a form of unlimited healing. At early levels, this one ability makes you damn near immortal.

The entire thing needs to be moved to a higher tier. Possibly the highest tier.I'm not sure what you mean by the entire thing should be up a tier. You mean the whole class is ~6 levels lower than it should be in terms of content?

Elandris Kajar
2015-08-02, 08:25 AM
So glad I could oblige:smallbiggrin:

I think he means the ability should be in a fourth category, higher than the first three. If you don't like that idea, then maybe make it take concentration or ability damage per round to keep active.

I am already dying to play one. (Or should that be living?:smallbiggrin:)

ben-zayb
2015-08-02, 08:35 AM
So glad I could oblige:smallbiggrin:

I think he means the ability should be in a fourth category, higher than the first three. If you don't like that idea, then maybe make it take concentration or ability damage per round to keep active.

I am already dying to play one. (Or should that be living?:smallbiggrin:)

In that case, I am not sure if the statement holds, as plenty of abilities I use are made available at around the level where a similarly functioning spell/invocation starts (e.g. Spiderclib at level1, Flight at level7, ability damage heal at level7, etc.)

And I'm also wanting to make a resurrect=soul destruction inversion, but I am drawing blanks on getting a properly executed mechanics to describe it.

Elandris Kajar
2015-08-02, 12:07 PM
I think that the fourth could be a capstone with the heal/harm one, as the consensus is that it is wicked powerful.

EdroGrimshell
2015-08-02, 05:02 PM
I think that the fourth could be a capstone with the heal/harm one, as the consensus is that it is sic be powerful.

Exactly, you take the main way of dealing with people, damage, and turn it against them. You can do the same to those that naturally heal to make them easier to deal with. Plus, it's infinite healing, essentially.

ImperatorV
2015-08-02, 07:22 PM
I feel like you need more inversions. As-is you have to take all but one of the available inversions if you take the class through to 20.

ben-zayb
2015-08-03, 09:27 AM
I think that the fourth could be a capstone with the heal/harm one, as the consensus is that it is wicked powerful.
Exactly, you take the main way of dealing with people, damage, and turn it against them. You can do the same to those that naturally heal to make them easier to deal with. Plus, it's infinite healing, essentially.Done, by adding a fourth stage at level 19. I'm also thinking of giving five inversions in per four levels, giving 2 on levels 1/7/13/19/20, but right now I'm still figuring out more inversions to add so the official change could wait. Are there any D&D concepts or structures that you would take interest in seeing inverted?

I feel like you need more inversions. As-is you have to take all but one of the available inversions if you take the class through to 20.That's the plan, yes. I'm open to suggestions, especially on common D&D staples that would interest you in experiencing/seeing from a new, inverted, paradigm.

Xallace
2015-08-03, 05:07 PM
Ah, I should have cleared that up. You choose where to be banished. It's also intended to be combo'd with Road Untraveled, for a 1hour-cooldown-per-person Greater Planeshift equivalent. Do you have any other idea in mind on how this could be improved, or maybe an alternative idea on how this will be implemented?

You could probably have some fun with the effects of being banished to every other plane simultaneously (like a random chart detailing potential effects), or you could say that instead of being banished, you take damage (which is not negated or modified by any other Inversion). If you die, your remains are strewn across the multiverse. The second way would be simpler, although certainly less fun.

Have you considered taking some inspiration from the Ebon Dragon from Exalted for high-level Inversions? Being able to swap your ability scores with an enemy or form yourself into a temporary inverse-version of your target seem like things that would be up this class' alley.

The Mentalist
2015-08-04, 10:53 AM
Before I even finished reading this is going in the bookmarks next to Xenotheurge and Evolutionist in the list of things I want to toy with. I will be back with Inversion ideas soon.

There's a version of Merlin that I only know from an xkcd comic who only remembers the future and not the past. I think it might be an interesting one.

Elandris Kajar
2015-08-04, 02:44 PM
You could have one that makes initiative run backwards.

ben-zayb
2015-08-08, 09:40 AM
You could probably have some fun with the effects of being banished to every other plane simultaneously (like a random chart detailing potential effects), or you could say that instead of being banished, you take damage (which is not negated or modified by any other Inversion). If you die, your remains are strewn across the multiverse. The second way would be simpler, although certainly less fun.I like the first option, although I'm not sure how that would work, considering there are a lot of planes to choose from: the coexistents, the inners, the outers, and technically other people's demiplanes actually count!


Have you considered taking some inspiration from the Ebon Dragon from Exalted for high-level Inversions? Being able to swap your ability scores with an enemy or form yourself into a temporary inverse-version of your target seem like things that would be up this class' alley.I've read what I can find from the net, but it's not giving me much detail on the mechanics...It may be the perfect fit for my Life/Death Hadal Inversion, too.


Before I even finished reading this is going in the bookmarks next to Xenotheurge and Evolutionist in the list of things I want to toy with. I will be back with Inversion ideas soon.

There's a version of Merlin that I only know from an xkcd comic who only remembers the future and not the past. I think it might be an interesting one.Glad you like it! I tried adding something like that, but kept the memory-hax at a fairly balanced level instead of actually seeing a clear future. At will Divination at level 13th should not feel that imbalanced.


You could have one that makes initiative run backwards.
Thanks, I really like the suggestion! Added something of the same vein, at the 2nd tier.


Small Update!
1. I modified how inversion works, to prevent possible confusion on why a single (Ex) has two abilities. Any feedback on whether the change makes it easier to understand or not is appreciated.
2. Added some more inversions, including filling up Hadals with 2 new kinda-broken, pseudo-capstone, inversions. I'm still figuring out how to reinsert Life's Reflection to the pending Hadal Inversion (initially revised as a Life-Death inversion), considering it needs to be on the same weight class as the other two.
3. Also changed to rate of inversions gained per level. It's a bit of cheating to make it look more, until you realize that 30 Inversions is actually somewhere between 30-60 abilities.


Everyone is welcome to PEACH! So let the onslaught begin!

Prince Zahn
2015-08-08, 01:25 PM
I haven't even gotten near finishing reading (or heck, even wrapping my head around a class that turns 3.5 upside down) but I am admiring this very very much, both as a homebrew and as a thought experiment:smallsmile:

Subscribed, bookmarked. Keep this up!

ben-zayb
2015-08-09, 04:41 AM
I haven't even gotten near finishing reading (or heck, even wrapping my head around a class that turns 3.5 upside down) but I am admiring this very very much, both as a homebrew and as a thought experiment:smallsmile:

Subscribed, bookmarked. Keep this up!

Thanks! Glad to hear that! I'll work on more inversions to be added. :smallbiggrin:


I'm still not sure whether I should add a class skill list or not. The "all skills that aren't train-only" list isn't wholly serious, but so far there're no specific fluff reason to pick specific skills that feels essential to an Esrveni's theme. Any suggestions for that would be very much welcomed.

Also, I just added a tabulated list for an easier way to get a quick look on what each of those inversions do.

Qwertystop
2015-08-09, 08:33 PM
Very neat, I've always liked the weird ones.

Chelonian Tempo is odd since it's got the and-vice-versa formatting - "Nth becomes Nth-to-last and Nth-to-last becomes Nth" when there's only one thing to flip and it fits in both descriptors.

Mortality Reflection - Core mentions dead below 10, when it should be -10. Uncertain whether the same should go for the dead-above, since it's a new thing. Also, that's pretty much a no-save-just-die at-will with Contaminate, and complete immunity to damage without, as long as you make sure not to get healed above 0 HP (simple enough). Another problem: there's no overlap, no point at which you'd be safe whether or not you were using it.

Dweomer Unweaving - Field is odd in the case of making normal magic areas into non-magic - I think there are a few cases where the difference between dead-magic and anti-magic matters, and it's unclear here which you get.

Path Erasure - Field is just really weird. Odder if only one of the creatures is in the field - which one has to be in for the effect to trigger? That also applies to a few others, mostly involving attacker/target.

Does Regressed Future - Core make you forget everything? The Field seems odd as well - you list all these different action types but they all do the same thing, which means you could compress it - if you have a full-round, you have a standard, so no reason to list full-round. Also, you can't do it with just a move action, even though you can with immediate?

The secondary effect on Assault Reality - Core, about natural 1s/20s, is just odd... it doesn't change anything statistically, it doesn't add anything to the game, it's just an annoying extra thing to track.

Dimensional-Temporal Inversion - Core would make you immune to anything with a duration, unless it was applied when you weren't running it. Also, just about everything else treats Inversions as passive ongoing effects, but the revert-to-previous round really doesn't work with that.

I can't quite comprehend Scattered Waves - Field.

You might want to put the levels that different degrees of inversion are unlocked on the table.

qazzquimby
2015-08-10, 04:59 AM
Physically flipping the environment, such that everything in the field is mirrored, but everything outside is placed normally. My mind cannot currently fathom if that would let you bypass walls, since they would appear behind you when you draw near them.

Flipping elements, ideally not just in damage and name but in the environment, though swapping air and earth could be troublesome.

Flipping hostility levels so the demon you summoned becomes your best friend.

More vague, but flipping nonmechanical attributes, such as making a clean house dirty, or a blue flower yellow, like everyones favourite level 0 spell I can't spell at the moment.

Change the direction a creature moves / targets?

Temperatures can be flipped around lukewarm, though I dont know how interesting that would be. I guess you could instantly turn snow into steam.

Inverting ability scores would be interesting but might be hard to do quickly. Ideally you would want to flip around the average ability score, but that takes time or a calculator. Flipping at 10 would just destroy powerful creatures. Reordering highest to lowest would also take time. You could flip them (str = cha, dex = wis, con = int, if I remember the order right), which is fast, though obviously arbitrary.

Flip the contents of two small and nearby locations. Might overlap with my first mirroring idea.

Inversing targets, so any time something would target another it targets themself. Alternatively, when someone is targeted with an effect, they choose another target for it to affect.

Swapping location with targets in an abstracted way. If goblins are sniping you from the trees, the party appears in the trees with them on the ground. Probably too vague and DM fiat reliant. Also, every ability that has a target seems arbitrary and unthematic.

Fly<=>burrow

Out of useful suggestions, I think. A concept I had thought of that is similar enough to this is linking mechanics and elements. Within limits, moving north could cause a creature to take damage and moving south to recover it, or the damage/healing could cause the movement, or some blend. Actions or mechanical changes could be linked to other actions or mechanical changes. Probably not useful to you, but maybe interesting to think about.

ben-zayb
2015-08-10, 09:23 AM
Wow, response-train incoming!
Very neat, I've always liked the weird ones.

Chelonian Tempo is odd since it's got the and-vice-versa formatting - "Nth becomes Nth-to-last and Nth-to-last becomes Nth" when there's only one thing to flip and it fits in both descriptors.Oops! Fixed~


Mortality Reflection - Core mentions dead below 10, when it should be -10. Uncertain whether the same should go for the dead-above, since it's a new thing. Also, that's pretty much a no-save-just-die at-will with Contaminate, and complete immunity to damage without, as long as you make sure not to get healed above 0 HP (simple enough). Another problem: there's no overlap, no point at which you'd be safe whether or not you were using it.Fixed the typo (at -10). I also added something to make this SoD not easily spammable, and more or less just a better CDG offensively. Also, do note that such "immunity to damage" has a near-absolute (only Hadal inversions can break this) time limit of 1-20 rounds due to how Contaminate works, after which you better get healed back to the safe zone, or die for real.


Dweomer Unweaving - Field is odd in the case of making normal magic areas into non-magic - I think there are a few cases where the difference between dead-magic and anti-magic matters, and it's unclear here which you get.The SRD says that "dead magic trait functions in all respects like an antimagic field spell". I'm unsure if it's better to just drop the Dead Magic part in the description, and just add a reminder of the above quote, but I added it nonetheless since it looks clearer/better that way...


Path Erasure - Field is just really weird. Odder if only one of the creatures is in the field - which one has to be in for the effect to trigger? That also applies to a few others, mostly involving attacker/target.That has been clarified in the Entry Format, specifically, for those that refer one creature and then to another. The answer is... either of those works! The ones involving changing rolls/ac only affect such statistics from those within the field, as with other field effects.


Does Regressed Future - Core make you forget everything? The Field seems odd as well - you list all these different action types but they all do the same thing, which means you could compress it - if you have a full-round, you have a standard, so no reason to list full-round. Also, you can't do it with just a move action, even though you can with immediate?Core only switches some of your past memories with future memories, which works the best from a balance perspective. You don't become a drooling idiot with no past recollection, and you don't remember everything in the future to accurately predict events. The Field inversion is supposed to mean, "if you abuse the action economy to gain any of these actions, you skip your turn instead". I made a slight clarification, if that helps. Not including move action, on the other hand, is done from a balance perspective, under the assumption that there are far better things that can be accomplished with an additional swift/immediate action.


The secondary effect on Assault Reality - Core, about natural 1s/20s, is just odd... it doesn't change anything statistically, it doesn't add anything to the game, it's just an annoying extra thing to track.Guilty, your honor! I could probably use it as its own mesoinversion.


Dimensional-Temporal Inversion - Core would make you immune to anything with a duration, unless it was applied when you weren't running it. Also, just about everything else treats Inversions as passive ongoing effects, but the revert-to-previous round really doesn't work with that.It's a bit of a double-edged sword, yeah, and a bit of an annoyance when you have to contaminate it to other object/creatures to keep your own durations running. It's meant to be an inversion that would greatly both benefit and/or harm you if you "put in on" for a long time, but is otherwise a really good "buffing" buffer.


I can't quite comprehend Scattered Waves - Field.The Field around the "Esrevni" inverses luminosity. Since the effect lingers on, this means that, for that additional duration, it will keep on affecting (adjacent) squares that the Esrevni simply passed through, which means you can make a trail of darkness or light, possibly combined with a contaminated object that you drop/throw somewhere else.


You might want to put the levels that different degrees of inversion are unlocked on the table.Done! Thanks for the comprehensive evaluations!



Physically flipping the environment, such that everything in the field is mirrored, but everything outside is placed normally. My mind cannot currently fathom if that would let you bypass walls, since they would appear behind you when you draw near them.

Flipping elements, ideally not just in damage and name but in the environment, though swapping air and earth could be troublesome.

Flipping hostility levels so the demon you summoned becomes your best friend.

More vague, but flipping nonmechanical attributes, such as making a clean house dirty, or a blue flower yellow, like everyones favourite level 0 spell I can't spell at the moment.

Change the direction a creature moves / targets?

Temperatures can be flipped around lukewarm, though I dont know how interesting that would be. I guess you could instantly turn snow into steam.

Inverting ability scores would be interesting but might be hard to do quickly. Ideally you would want to flip around the average ability score, but that takes time or a calculator. Flipping at 10 would just destroy powerful creatures. Reordering highest to lowest would also take time. You could flip them (str = cha, dex = wis, con = int, if I remember the order right), which is fast, though obviously arbitrary.

Flip the contents of two small and nearby locations. Might overlap with my first mirroring idea.

Inversing targets, so any time something would target another it targets themself. Alternatively, when someone is targeted with an effect, they choose another target for it to affect.

Swapping location with targets in an abstracted way. If goblins are sniping you from the trees, the party appears in the trees with them on the ground. Probably too vague and DM fiat reliant. Also, every ability that has a target seems arbitrary and unthematic.

Fly<=>burrow

Out of useful suggestions, I think. A concept I had thought of that is similar enough to this is linking mechanics and elements. Within limits, moving north could cause a creature to take damage and moving south to recover it, or the damage/healing could cause the movement, or some blend. Actions or mechanical changes could be linked to other actions or mechanical changes. Probably not useful to you, but maybe interesting to think about.Plenty of great ideas! Thank you! I'll try to incorporate these on my next update, so stay tuned!:smallbiggrin:

The Mentalist
2015-08-10, 09:27 AM
Not sure at all how it would be done but I'd love to see one to make things like commoners more badass and the ultra powerful less so. Maybe a positive/negative levels thing?

Qwertystop
2015-08-10, 12:15 PM
Wow, response-train incoming!Oops! Fixed~

Fixed the typo (at -10). I also added something to make this SoD not easily spammable, and more or less just a better CDG offensively. Also, do note that such "immunity to damage" has a near-absolute (only Hadal inversions can break this) time limit of 1-20 rounds due to how Contaminate works, after which you better get healed back to the safe zone, or die for real.

The SRD says that "dead magic trait functions in all respects like an antimagic field spell". I'm unsure if it's better to just drop the Dead Magic part in the description, and just add a reminder of the above quote, but I added it nonetheless since it looks clearer/better that way...

That has been clarified in the Entry Format, specifically, for those that refer one creature and then to another. The answer is... either of those works! The ones involving changing rolls/ac only affect such statistics from those within the field, as with other field effects.

Core only switches some of your past memories with future memories, which works the best from a balance perspective. You don't become a drooling idiot with no past recollection, and you don't remember everything in the future to accurately predict events. The Field inversion is supposed to mean, "if you abuse the action economy to gain any of these actions, you skip your turn instead". I made a slight clarification, if that helps. Not including move action, on the other hand, is done from a balance perspective, under the assumption that there are far better things that can be accomplished with an additional swift/immediate action.

Guilty, your honor! I could probably use it as its own mesoinversion.

It's a bit of a double-edged sword, yeah, and a bit of an annoyance when you have to contaminate it to other object/creatures to keep your own durations running. It's meant to be an inversion that would greatly both benefit and/or harm you if you "put in on" for a long time, but is otherwise a really good "buffing" buffer.

The Field around the "Esrevni" inverses luminosity. Since the effect lingers on, this means that, for that additional duration, it will keep on affecting (adjacent) squares that the Esrevni simply passed through, which means you can make a trail of darkness or light, possibly combined with a contaminated object that you drop/throw somewhere else.

Done! Thanks for the comprehensive evaluations!


Plenty of great ideas! Thank you! I'll try to incorporate these on my next update, so stay tuned!:smallbiggrin:

Re: immunity to damage, that you said was limited by the Contaminate duration: no. As far as I can tell, the Contaminate duration is only for applying it to someone else, and you have it as long as you're not applying it to someone else or using the Field version.

The major flaw, I think, is that almost everything this class gets relies on reversing specific effects that it can't actually produce. Without that, there's attack rolls, saves, skills, a couple of other things, but many of the Inversions do nothing without a caster conveniently trying to do the specific things you can flip.

ben-zayb
2015-08-10, 01:44 PM
Not sure at all how it would be done but I'd love to see one to make things like commoners more badass and the ultra powerful less so. Maybe a positive/negative levels thing?Some of the inversions (e.g. Cultivated Ruin, Weakness is Strength, Meek's Might, Gift of Affliction, Strength is Weakness) already enable the "trash" to take people out, by being an antioptimization sort of ability.


Re: immunity to damage, that you said was limited by the Contaminate duration: no. As far as I can tell, the Contaminate duration is only for applying it to someone else, and you have it as long as you're not applying it to someone else or using the Field version.

The major flaw, I think, is that almost everything this class gets relies on reversing specific effects that it can't actually produce. Without that, there's attack rolls, saves, skills, a couple of other things, but many of the Inversions do nothing without a caster conveniently trying to do the specific things you can flip.Re: Immunity to Damage: Oops, I see what you're talking about. It's also broken in that you die, the moment you pick it as a new inversion, unless you are under the Field Death's Reflection... That needs a serious rework.

I'm not sure about the "almost everything", however. I thought most of them are pretty functional without any magical assistance, and most that don't are merely trying to fulfill the "List of Necessary Magic Item" defense sets:
Cultivated Ruin
Core: it's primarily a non-magical debuff that prevents skill usage (e.g. 0 rank Spot/Listen, 1+ rank Spellcraft/Knowledge/UMD/Tumble), or sometimes a very situational buff that enables untrained train-only checks, without much investment (kinda like many wizards dipping Knowledge checks just in case)
Field: most sources of penalties are non-magical (attacks and skill checks, especially so), and many basic bonuses are, too (ability mod, BAB, size bonus, armor/shield/natural bonus to AC, base save bonus, circumstance bonus).

Heretic Devotion
Core: aligned actions are rarely magical, except for the very small subset of aligned spells. Forcing strongly-aligned characters to have difficulties with their actions, is a non-magical debuff.
Field: Now, this is the 1st instance where magic will dominate the inversion's influence on gameplay. This is primarily a buff (prevent some abilities from working on you), or a very situational debuff

Overshadow Opportunity
Core: AoOs, and tricks revolving AoOs, are almost exclusively non-magical
Field: tricks to enable Dex-denial, and tactics relying on it, are almost exclusively non-magical too

Pathfinding
Core: The 2nd instance where magic will dominate the inversion's influence on gameplay. Then again, stacking move-halving conditions (Entangled, Exhausted, etc. are non-magical) would be an unusual, but feasible for this class, strategy.
Field: Aside from telekinesis and magic-induced hurricanes, most forms of square displacement that this messes up are non-magical (e.g. moving your speed, charging/running, falling, flying projectiles)

Scattered Waves
Core: Hiding is mundane. And while the anti-stealth half is a buff that mostly interacts with magic, it's other half is a very strong debuff that allows your party to be the stealthy ones.
Field: Barely interacts with magic at all, mostly only by dispelling light/darkness/silence. But otherwise, it is also a situational strong buff for your allies.

Spanner Pileup
Core/Field: Both are expanded trapfinder alternatives, with extended use to mess up readied actions and contingencies. I'm not sure how often this interacts with magic, considering both magical/non-magical effects rely on features that is mostly game-dependent (i.e. Just how many contingencies does a character have in a particular campaign?).

Trespasser's Prerogative
Core: Aye, this is another one (3rd?) that relies on magic, although I doubt Banishment frequently comes up as one of the necessary magic to have.
Field: Interacts with magic via Arcane Locks and "refuge" spells, while interacts with the mundane mostly with (secret/trap) doors, prison cells, or treasure chests. I'm inclined to believe the latter is the more frequent interaction.

Weakness is Strength
Core: interacts with magic just as much, if not less, as it interacts with the generic attacks/disarms/sunders
Field: barely interacts with magic, except for those that massively increase/decrease strength

Chelonian Tempo
Core: simply interacts with a facet of combat--initiative--magic or no magic
Field: as the above, except surprise and first rounds

Counterclock
Core: not restricted to magic, but you're basically granting (to an allied caster?) or gaining pure action economy advantage
Field: mostly interacts with conditions, but it's arguable that most of these conditions are gained via magic, so that makes this the 4th

Gift of Affliction
Core: will technically work primarily with magic...but magic items mostly, which is not an unusual thing even for mundane characters
Field: the 5th one that interacts magic heavily, primarily to repel/prevent/reverse ability damage caused mostly by magic

Meek's Might
Core: opposed rolls are mostly, to my knowledge, skill checks and ability checks, which is mundane (except for number-bumping magic)
Field: size factors mostly in non-magical facets of D&D, such as physical combat, intimidation, and stealth

Motion Undenied
Core: can easily interact with grapple, or the Stunned/Dazed conditions, which are predominantly magic-based, which makes this the 7th
Field: skill check unrelated to magic, useful for water walking and flight that are otherwise mostly gained via magic

Hunters Hunted
Core: all are pretty situational to come up, but divination/clairsentience may be more frequent depending on gaming preferences
Field: will mostly interact with the mundane, what with the plethora of special senses such as tremorsense/scent/blindsight on plenty of creatures

Twisted Fate
Core/Field: concealment will be the most likely use, although whether that is far more used/usable using magic is arguable.

Mortality Reflection
Field: plenty of creatures, as is, have DR/ER, while objects have Hardness, so this will likely not be mainly magic-dependent

Dweomer Unweaving
Core: blatantly created to interact with magic, but not necessarily to support magic, but to counter it, and so isn't magic-dependent
Field: can toy with AMFs, or prevent magic by creating AMFs, but actually isn't reliant on magic for it to work

Path Erasure
Core: this either makes you the "ghost" finder (incorporeality barely gets granted by magic), or the ghost itself. No need for magic support to be functional.
Field: knowledge checks and gather information makes this very useful, and may also, but not necessarily, be powered up with magic

Regressed Future
Core: this is already a "magical" effect of sorts, and requires no starting mojo to work
Field: this 9th one is obviously meant to interact with magic, since action economy is mostly magic-based

Road Untraveled
Core/Field: both of these (10th/11th) mostly require magic support, although there are inversions to replace those requirements

Strength is Weakness
Core/Field: same as Weakness is Strength

Zen Delusion
Core: deceptively magic independant, but you can just contaminate someone and then knock them out cold
Field: this will likely interact with magic the most, making this the 12th one

Assault Reality & Dimensionl-Temporal Inversio
Core/Field: interacts mostly with either the world as a whole, or the inversions as a whole, and doesn't really need magic at all
All in all, that's approximately 12 out of 48 that may require magic to be more than 50% functional.:smallconfused:

Elandris Kajar
2015-08-10, 02:32 PM
There could be one where ranged weapons don't shoot/stick to your hand, and Melee weapons extend to attack at a 30? 60? Ft range.

qazzquimby
2015-08-11, 02:34 PM
You close your eyes
And you see

Everything


Penalties to bonuses become interesting with absolute penalties that make the check impossible, since you are then omnipotent within that field. I guess its a problem, but I love it.

Elandris Kajar
2015-08-15, 07:57 AM
Along with the hat he said, you could add one that makes invisible creatures visible, and visible creatures invisible.