Belkar and Vamps

[Sylthia]

If Belkar were to be vamped would he still be Belkar or a new soul in Belkar's body, like Durkula?

I ask, because vampires are always evil, and since Durkon was Lawful Good he'd either need to change alignment or be "replaced" as it were. I'm not sure how vamping rules work in this universe, so maybe Belkar would more or less be the same, just undead, somewhat like Xykon.

[Xihirli]

Hel has dominion over Dwarven undead. Belkar is from Halfling lands and we don't even know if they have the same gods. He'll still be Belkar. Theoretically, a god of death could put a cleric in Belkar's body, but that would be rather pointless since Belkar isn't a cleric.

[Peelee]

There is absolutely zero difference between Malack and Durkon's vampirizations, with the sole exception that Hel made the spirit sitting in Durkon's head while Nergal made the one that was sitting in Malack's. Hel is able to put that spirit into Durkon's body because of the physical vampirization process that Malack enacts on Durkon's corpse, which opens a door to Negative Energy and traps Durkon's spirit inside it. Which would also be true of any other vampire created from a person who fell under the Northern Pantheon's domain, though she wouldn't take a personal interest in just any person because they wouldn't be a powerful cleric.

It seems as if alignment and place of origin have no bearing whatsoever; a new vampiric soul always enters. Given this information, the hypothetical vampire would most definitely not be Belkar.

Any further questions on the vamping process can be answered by either the wonderful Index of the Giant's Comments, or Jaxdan Proditor's sigline.

[Gift Jeraff]

Hel has dominion over Dwarven undead. Belkar is from Halfling lands and we don't even know if they have the same gods. He'll still be Belkar. Theoretically, a god of death could put a cleric in Belkar's body, but that would be rather pointless since Belkar isn't a cleric.

Hel has dominion over all Northern undead. Source:

She got involved because she is also, separately, the Northern deity of undeath, and one of her "duties" is making the evil spirits for all Northern vampires.
She said the dwarves fall under her purview because all dwarves are Northern creatures.

[gia]

If Belkar were to be vamped would he still be Belkar or a new soul in Belkar's body, like Durkula?

I ask, because vampires are always evil, and since Durkon was Lawful Good he'd either need to change alignment or be "replaced" as it were. I'm not sure how vamping rules work in this universe, so maybe Belkar would more or less be the same, just undead, somewhat like Xykon.

you get a new soul, which isn't you, its something else, to control your body, you get to watch. If belkar was still fully evil he'd probably befriend the vampire (unless he was lawful) and just probably party in there. As it is right now he would eventually object to the vampire for whatever reason and stay tied.

[factotum]

If belkar was still fully evil he'd probably befriend the vampire (unless he was lawful) and just probably party in there.

Don't agree at all. Belkar, no matter how evil he is, would still not appreciate being imprisoned in his own head and watching his body wandering around as the puppet of another spirit. Even if *some* of the actions his body was forced to do were ones Belkar would personally be happy with, he'd then probably be annoyed that it wasn't *his* thought driving the dagger (or the teeth, as the case may be) home; and chances are that many of those actions would not be ones he agreed with anyway, and he'd be helpless to do anything about it. Even a pleasant prison is still prison, after all.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Belkar would have a negative energy spirit placed in him, regardless of what pantheon controls the Halfling lands or what alignment he is. It's simply a natural part of the vampirization process. He wouldn't become a cleric or anything, but he would no longer be truly Belkar.


Jaxzan Proditor's sigline.

*points below*

[BaronOfHell]

It's a bit difficult to figure out sometimes.. the vamp changes soul, but the lich doesn't.

[goodpeople25]

Don't agree at all. Belkar, no matter how evil he is, would still not appreciate being imprisoned in his own head and watching his body wandering around as the puppet of another spirit. Even if *some* of the actions his body was forced to do were ones Belkar would personally be happy with, he'd then probably be annoyed that it wasn't *his* thought driving the dagger (or the teeth, as the case may be) home; and chances are that many of those actions would not be ones he agreed with anyway, and he'd be helpless to do anything about it. Even a pleasant prison is still prison, after all.
Though i agree that belkar would most likely not like bieng imprisoned in a vampire, i am not sure if the spirit would have to imprison Belkar's soul if it didn't want to, and belkar (well pre developmemt Belkar) depending on the spirit and the spirts alignment might be able to talk his way into control for at least the murder part of the job and might even welcome not having to interact socially at all, or if the vampire was CE he might even end up getting the social aspect if it was after his talk with shojo if the spirit was like pre MoJ activation belkar. Though belkar as he is now probaly wouldn't go for it espescly if the spirit doesn't like Mr Scruffy, or maybe if it tried to kill the order.

[falsedot]

Dark thought: if belkar gets an evil spirit, the spirit will probably kill mr scruffy to crush belkar :( therefore, belkar wont get vamped qed :D

[Psyren]

It's a bit difficult to figure out sometimes.. the vamp changes soul, but the lich doesn't.

Lichdom is willing; vampirism is (barring steamy YA fiction) usually not.

But I'd say the difference is more one of theme. Lichdom, generally, is something you do/pursue, while vampirisim is something done to you; the latter is about submitting to another, whether you do so willingly or you fight it every step of the way, eventually it involves giving yourself up to a greater power, so something else doing the driving is only natural. Lichdom meanwhile is all about a desire to stay yourself, and being so willing to achieve that end and remain who you are that you trade away everything else, even your humanity. Lichdom also requires that you be a powerful spellcaster and create your own phylactery, whereas any schlub can be made into a vampire.

In the end though, I'd say that pursuing lichdom probably requires a soul that's already so powerful and warped that there isn't much an undeath deity would feel compelled to do to alter you even if it were so inclined.

[The Pilgrim]

It would be amusing to see Belkar vampirized, his soul bound to watch his new host having evil fun with it, and Belkar getting bored with the show and finally realizing, by reflection, how hollow and pointless his own life as a chaotic evil character has been.

[Killer Angel]

It would be amusing to see Belkar vampirized, his soul bound to watch his new host having evil fun with it, and Belkar getting bored with the show and finally realizing, by reflection, how hollow and pointless his own life as a chaotic evil character has been.

Unlikely, but that would be a nice development.