A thought experiment

[Baroknik]

So I had a potential idea that may help balance out mundanes, in a sense. I recognize that it doesn't close the actual power gap much, but instead shifts their focus/use, but her it goes.

What if characters had the option to undergo a ritual for free at any time that permanently made them 100% immune to magic? After undergoing this, they would never be able to use any magic themselves, and any magical source would always fail against them, including SLAs. There is no reversing the ritual, and magic items are still available to use (though nothing with charges, no umd, and possibly more future restrictions).

The way I see it playing or is the magic users now have a definite purpose to keep mundanes around - so they can directly deal with those who are immune. Mundanes would have the voice of championing a career by being immune to other casters or by being able to be buffed and compete with those immune to the casters.


Just a short thought while I'm at the laundromat. What do you all think?

[Renen]

A caster walks in, sees all those magic immune mundanes, casts mudslide, casts mud to rock, and laughs.

[Baroknik]

While that is a potential tactic, it is nothing new to this situation, and so only addresses that there is still a power difference, which I admitted there still would be. The point of this is to help create a protected niche in a standard party, not to make magic not the go-to WMD

[Brova]

But the Wizard can still summon demons to murder the Fighter. Or create a legion of zombies. Or whatever.

[noob]

The wizard can still throw the earth into the sun and being magic immune will not make you last longer into the sun.

[griffinpup]

But to be fair, if you treated like a personal anti-magic field, it does significantly decrease the total gap. Especially through the complete level progression. I mean, the major problem isn't that wizards are better at level 20. Like, sure they are, but that's not necessarily a big deal. The problem comes when magical classes outperform mundane classes from 1-20 (with few exceptions). I agree there'd still be a gap, but it'd make it a very interesting dynamic as well.

[P.F.]

give up the ability to use magic items, receive magical healing, avail oneself of magical travel services, et cetera et cetera et cetera . . . probably not heplful, all told. Mundanes rely more on using magic in the limited manner available to them than they need protection from magic.

[noob]

Also if they are immune to all spells targeting them they can not be resurrected by any way(making them an extremely bad choice as pc and preventing them from being recurrent villains)

[Xuldarinar]

Also if they are immune to all spells targeting them they can not be resurrected by any way(making them an extremely bad choice as pc and preventing them from being recurrent villains)

Pathfinder has a wonderful thing included some text that would work for this element.

"This ability functions only while the (insert name of class here) remains conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead."

[ekarney]

It doesn't solve anything.

The issue of martial vs casters isn't because martials lose fights against casters its because their caster allies outshine them so much.

The casters get that power from their versatility, what you need is to give martials more versatility.

[Unbodied]

It doesn't solve anything.

The issue of martial vs casters isn't because martials lose fights against casters its because their caster allies outshine them so much.

The casters get that power from their versatility, what you need is to give martials more versatility.
Exactly. What the martials needs is wuxia or comic book logic. High level casters can fly? High level martials can kick the air hard enough to propel themselves. High level casters can teleport? High level martials can throw stuff across hundreds of miles and jump on top of it to surf it to their destination. High level casters can plane shift? High level martial types can punch the air so hard they create a hole between dimensions.

Etc. :p

[Grod_The_Giant]

The issue of martial vs casters isn't because martials lose fights against casters its because their caster allies outshine them so much.
Exactly this. In addition, it rewards the most troublesome forms of magic even more-- summoning, BFC, even buffing-yourself-into-a-melee-monster-beyond-mundane-capabilities. The most innocuous forms of magic, on the other hand-- blasting, debuffing, party buffing, etc-- get a massive drop in usefulness.

[Red Fel]

Mundanes rely more on using magic in the limited manner available to them than they need protection from magic.

What others have said, but this, particularly. It's the reasoning behind one of the big arguments against nerfing casters - hurting casters hurts mundanes, because casters can buff mundanes to keep them relevant. Without being able to enjoy, say, Enlarge Person, or Fly, or Greater Teleport, the mundane is even less powerful than he was. Even assuming he could use magic items and equipment, being the recipient of beneficial spells is a major contributor to the value of mundanes. Taking that away hurts them substantially.

And as others have pointed out, there are just so many ways beyond targeted spells to hurt or incapacitate people. It's like making somebody immune to bullets while everyone else is driving tanks around; it's a nice touch, but it doesn't address the more immediate problem.