Which is better, Wiz or Int?

[SangoProduction]

I found this feat in Bastards and Bloodlines called: "Lost Tradition" which lets you change the primary stat for a casting class.

As I am going a Wizard/Cleric, I have the choice of being SAD, despite the multiclass. So, which one is better? Wiz gives saves. Int gives skills. I assume Wiz is better, as you can do every skill with a spell, but it's not as simple with saves, but I want to be sure.

[AvatarVecna]

A straight Wizard 7 or Cleric 7 has a base Will save of +5; a Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1 has a base Will save of +8; these scale up in proportion to each other, unless you dip into a second theurge class. Either way, a Wizard/Cleric will have 3 classes giving that level 1 +2 bump to your Will save. Beyond that, not only are there plenty of ways to boost your saves that don't cost spells (such as items, or feats), Int gives you points you can put into Knowledge skills, which are like divination spells that don't cost you spell slots and aren't blocked by Mind Blank/Nondetection (assuming you get your bonus high enough).

Bottom line: unless your DM decides that the best way to take down a Mystic Theurge build is to try and penetrate their super-awesome Will save instead of their dead-in-the-water Fortitude and Reflex saves, I think you'll be fine going with Intelligence.

[SangoProduction]

A straight Wizard 7 or Cleric 7 has a base Will save of +5; a Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1 has a base Will save of +8; these scale up in proportion to each other, unless you dip into a second theurge class. Either way, a Wizard/Cleric will have 3 classes giving that level 1 +2 bump to your Will save. Beyond that, not only are there plenty of ways to boost your saves that don't cost spells (such as items, or feats), Int gives you points you can put into Knowledge skills, which are like divination spells that don't cost you spell slots and aren't blocked by Mind Blank/Nondetection (assuming you get your bonus high enough).

Bottom line: unless your DM decides that the best way to take down a Mystic Theurge build is to try and penetrate their super-awesome Will save instead of their dead-in-the-water Fortitude and Reflex saves, I think you'll be fine going with Intelligence.

lol. Thanks.

I actually gave it another read. Turns out it doesn't say "mental stat" is says "another stat", so you can at last have a Wizard who channels through his muscles, lol. (Or a more useful stat like Dex or Con) This is irrelevant to my original question, as I can only take it once, regardless, but it was an interesting point.

[TheNivMizzet]

If you're going Cleric/Wizard than your Will Save will be high regardless, and combined with a handful of basic protection spells you can protect against some Will Save dependent spells. I would say intelligence because you would have more skill points to drop into knowledge skills, 1 rank in every one which doesn't have a synergy bonus, and at least 5 in all the ones that do.
Remember that while you can use spells to simulate skill checks, you don't want to be spending spell slots to do so, unless you're Wizard 5 and have taken Spontaneous Divination and can cast Guidance of the Avatar on the fly.

Edit: Sniped by Vecna. Damn.

[SangoProduction]

If you're going Cleric/Wizard than your Will Save will be high regardless, and combined with a handful of basic protection spells you can protect against some Will Save dependent spells. I would say intelligence because you would have more skill points to drop into knowledge skills, 1 rank in every one which doesn't have a synergy bonus, and at least 5 in all the ones that do.
Remember that while you can use spells to simulate skill checks, you don't want to be spending spell slots to do so, unless you're Wizard 5 and have taken Spontaneous Divination and can cast Guidance of the Avatar on the fly.

Well...I did take level 5 wizard and....well...never mind. Int it is.

[AvatarVecna]

so you can at last have a Wizard who channels through his muscles, lol.

Actually, there was already a way to do that; even better, they already found an easy way to get infinite Str for infinite casting. Behold, the muscle wizard! (http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/46007651740/breaking-dd-35-the-muscle-wizard-or-how-to)

[Rubik]

Wizards are better than Intelligence, but they require Intelligence to function.

[SangoProduction]

Wizards are better than Intelligence, but they require Intelligence to function.

Gratz on not reading the OP.

[Rubik]

Gratz on not reading the OP.Oh, I did. I just read the OP's title, too. But the rest of the thread answered the question, so I figured I'd just drop in my $.02.

Remember, we're not required to comment in blue, though I probably should have.

Anyway, if you can get your hands on Owl's Insight and Persist it, Wis is more easily boosted than Int, but Int is overall more useful for the skill points, and it's easier to add +Int to more things.

[SangoProduction]

Actually, there was already a way to do that; even better, they already found an easy way to get infinite Str for infinite casting. Behold, the muscle wizard! (http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/46007651740/breaking-dd-35-the-muscle-wizard-or-how-to)

lol. Hilarious. It would require your DM to first allow you to gain the disease in the first place, but otherwise it looks funny.

[SangoProduction]

Oh, I did. I just read the OP's title, too. But the rest of the thread answered the question, so I figured I'd just drop in my $.02.

Remember, we're not required to comment in blue, though I probably should have.

Anyway, if you can get your hands on Owl's Insight and Persist it, Wis is more easily boosted than Int, but Int is overall more useful for the skill points, and it's easier to add +Int to more things.

OK. Sorry. I did not realize the intent behind the words, as with the feat, the wizard mightn't need int to function.

[AvatarVecna]

lol. Hilarious. It would require your DM to first allow you to gain the disease in the first place, but otherwise it looks funny.

As it mentions, that's just the "infinite spells" version; if you're fine just having a frick ton of spells, you've always got Rage Mage, Bite of the Werewhatever, Enlarge Person, Polymorph, Giant Size, Righteous Might, Bull's Strength, and so on, and so on, and so on.