Forcing a Helmet On Other Characters?

[supersonic29]

It's possible I am a blind man and missed something sifting through the rules of grappling, special attacks, and donning armor, but what mechanically would go into putting a helmet on an unwilling recipient? I assume grappling has to be involved somehow.

[Curmudgeon]

Actually, the rules guarantee that Grappling isn't involved. While Grappling you can only take the actions listed under If You’re Grappling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#ifYoureGrappling). Forcing an item on your grappled foe isn't on the list.

Perhaps Sleight of Hand, with a really high DC.

[supersonic29]

Actually, the rules guarantee that Grappling isn't involved. While Grappling you can only take the actions listed under If You’re Grappling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#ifYoureGrappling). Forcing an item on your grappled foe isn't on the list.

Perhaps Sleight of Hand, with a really high DC.

Hm yeah, unless it were somehow interpreted as an attack or activating a magic item (Helm of Opposite alignment in mind, probably a stretch though)

Maybe doing it in a pin would be ideal?

[dascarletm]

Forcing someone to wear something (while struggling) is not covered in the rules as far as I know.

So you'll have to come up with something using the rules we have as a framework, since Wizards could not physically write in every possible scenario into the rules.

I'd say an opposed grapple check while the character is pinned would make sense, with penalties given depending on how hard the item would be to force on. (penalty range -10 to 0?)

[Curmudgeon]

Hm yeah, unless it were somehow interpreted as an attack or activating a magic item (Helm of Opposite alignment in mind, probably a stretch though)

Maybe doing it in a pin would be ideal?
No, it's not allowed as a grappling attack.
Attack Your Opponent

You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.
A helmet is none of those things. Also, pinning them doesn't help; the list of allowed actions If You’re Pinning an Opponent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#ifYourePinninganOpponent) is even more restrictive.

[supersonic29]

I suppose I should have fleshed the thought out in text- I was basing the thought off of this bit from the while pinned situation:
"You can use a disarm action to remove or grab away a well secured object"

My thought was, if nowhere in the rules specifically details this action (which seems it doesn't) then I would have to try and define it in a way that makes sense (this being for a BBEG I'm planning.) In that vein, I considered reversing the disarm action for that. Sleight of hand seems like a good alternative, but having the only way to do that being a swift plop on their head, lacking the more forceful overpowering option, seems a bit off to me.

[ko_sct]

While I'm sure someone could comme up with a 100% RAW way of forcibly putting an helmet on someone else, dascarlatem eay of doing it is probably both the simplest (well... it does imply using the grappling rules. So, not that simple) and make the most sense.

Grapple.
Pin
Opposed grappling check at -2 or something for a helmet (-4 for a belt, -8 for pants, -10 for shirt, -15 for full toxedo)

Sleight of hand also make sense if your trying to put the helmet on someone without pinning them first.

Also, one casting of hold person totally make sense.

[Frosty]

Is just have someone else outside the grapple do it while you hold the target down.

[RolkFlameraven]

Is just have someone else outside the grapple do it while you hold the target down.

Yeah, it would take this or having them 'helpless' in someway.

Tied up, chained to a chair, sneaking up on them while they are a sleep, while under the effects of 'hold person' or something like that. I can't see, even cinematically, how one would force a helmet on someone's head solo, baring a rather large size difference.

Would Improved Grab let this work? If you win the grapple with a -20 you are not grappled after all.