Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

[MrConsideration]

Mainly to help my own thinking for an up-and-coming campaign I'm going to run, but also to share my inspired insights, I'm going to go through the Monster Manual in order and comment on each of the beasties. How evocative is this creature? What adventure hooks could I use with them? How fun is it in combat?


Aarakocra

Firstly, it took me about three tries to get that spelling correctly, and it's one of those strange names where pronunciation for your players will be all over the place. One of those names sufficiently bereft of English inspiration that I have a kind of selective dyslexia about, and will called Aarakcockra or Arkarockra without ever holding the name properly in the brain. It's not a name with the immediate resonance of an Orc. It does have a good mouth-feel though - the word 'Aarakocra' has an innate birdiness that is hard to deny.

But it's cool! The Aarakocra, despite being a staple of the game for many editions, isn't immediately recognisable. It doesn't have a brand - which opens it up to any tinkering you want to do with it.


Art
Secondly, the artwork. The Aarakocra is strident, standoff-ish, which I like - very much a Neutral good creature working out your intents. I feel there's a real lack of movement, though. This image doesn't feel kinetic, or birdlike, or evoke the speed and maneuverability that its combat tactics bear out. The art is a bloke with some wings glued on - whereas I think the art should evoke more of an alien, avian, feel.

The spear is also one of those silly fantasy spears that with a bizarre shape that would be less functional that a normal spear. I do love that it is perched on the stat--block, though.

Purpose and Tactics
With a 1/4 CR and humanoid bent, the Aarakocra is the lowest rung on the alternative Goblin-Orc-Hobgoblin ladder. However, as the Aarakocra are Neutral Good, and spend most of their time hanging about in the Elemental Plane of Air, it seem unlikely that your low-level party will ever bump into one without them having some alternative existence in your setting. If they're an established race on the Prime Material, they'll probably be quite well established everywhere - flight is a pretty considerable advantage other other sapient creatures and opens up area for habitation that few others can reach.

Flight makes them interesting combatants and increases the tactics needed to defeat them. You can walk up to an Orc, stick a sword in it, and it'll die. The Aarakocra can be flying around, dive-bombing the PCs, and staying out of melee range throughout: either swooping in with their talons or throwing a javelin. A lot of good low-level control effects (Entangle, for example), wouldn't reach them. I'd make flight an interesting weakness as well though - a spell like Hold Person should see them falling from the sky!

The ability to summon an air elemental is interesting, but all five summoners need to maintain concentration for three consecutive turns to achieve this (does the summoning fail if they are interrupted by a Ranger PC's arrow up the jacksie?). In play, I'd simply spawn any Aarakocra with an Elemental in tow if they got wind* of the PC's arrival.

Jazz up the Aarakocra by making them one part of a band of diverse humanoids (I love the rival adventuring party shtick, and rolling up the wierdos and nutters that serve as foils to the PCs) or pairing them with something meatier: they skirmish whilst the big monster punches the PCs in the throat.

Perhaps Aarakocra would be better served being occasional allies or quest-givers for your PCs, although the fact that by-the-book they only speak Auran (how many of your PCs pick that language up?) Perhaps they only made muster because so they can be a PC race.

Fluff
Rubbish. I find it really difficult to envisage how or why the creatures of Elemental Earth would invade air (don't you need to fly? Aren't the Air creatures at a huge advantage?) or why anyone would task the CR 1/4 Aarakocra with the defense of the realm over the hardier elementals detailed later. Much of the fluff is really derived from the Elemental Evil adventure path, and the idea of a sapient race acting in the same way as Elementals, or having the same priorities, baffles me. Whilst there are some nice evocative bits of language (Who are the Wind Dukes of Aaqa? The Howling Gyre?) it doesn't give you much to work with off that adventure path. If the Aarakocra are sitting on inaccessible peaks keeping an eye on pesky Elemental Evil, the PCs are fairly unlikely to stumble across them.

They're (Every Aarakocra? All the time?) searching for some silly Rod because of bla bla bla.

Sorry to the Aarakocra, but the major problem here is the Elemental Plane of Air is boring.
More boring still is the Aarakocra are constantly presented as lackeys: searching for someone else's Rod of Seven Parts to fight someone else's enemies to guard someone else's borders. When are these Aarakocra going to learn to squawk 'NO!'?

The final paragraph is handy though: the Aarakocra espouse a sort of radical-utilitarian philosophy and simply do not believe in property. Whilst I'm fairly sure this is cribbed from the garuda of Perdido Street Station, it helps make an encounter with Aarakocra more interesting - what precious belongings of the PCs might these card-carrying avians make off with for the greater good? How would your players react?

Hooks
The local Aarakocra make off with magic-item or maguffin in order to fight a greater threat. Do their PCs let them borrow their kit? How do they go about reclaiming it?

Local Aarakocra, not understanding property laws, have been robbing peasants blind. However, they're also keeping the local harpies in check. How do your players disentangle this situation?

An Aarakocra warlord has lost his wings. Can the players repair his powers of flight? (Yes, I can steal from China Mieville too).

A general wants to hire some Aarakocra scouts for his army. What reward, when no property exists, can the players think to tempt the Aarakocra into honest work?

Verdict: A less-interesting Kenku.

So Playground, what do we think of the Aarakocra? Tomorrow we can look forward to the Aboleth.


*Sorry.

[Inglorin]

Nice one. I am looking forward to the other critters.

The A. (can't spell it either, but not really trying at all) have never been used in my campaigns. For the most part, because they always felt too much "out there". But I can see them being used in my current game, which is definitly more on the high-fantasy side of things.

[EggKookoo]

This thread is going to go on for a while, I see.

I love this, it really helps contextualize these critters. As you were describing it I was envisioning my own players encountering it and dealing with the problems you brought up. Bravo!

[Occasional Sage]

Nice to see another Mieville fan.

[Shining Wrath]

Aararocka bother me for some reason. I suspect it's the sheer awkwardness of wings and arms interacting in the same region. They just look clumsy - Unintelligent Design, if you will pardon the expression.

I don't allow them as PCs because flight combined with grapple is murderous at low levels. Seize the victim, go straight up at 25' per round. If they break the grapple, they fall and die. If you let go, they fall and die unless they grappled you first. NPC Aararocka ought to do the same thing; if a flock fights the party look for your archers to be seized and carried into the air. And then dropped on your wizard.

If you bring these into your campaign, you have to explain why they aren't using grapple & drop tactics. Or, for that matter, picking up massive rocks and dropping those from 500' above the party. Gravity still works, and there is no reason for a creature that can lift a 50 pound rock and drop it from high above to ever come within arrow range. They may not hit often, but unless you can find sturdy shelter they only have to hit once.

I do like the idea of eternal war between the noble Aararocka and evil gargoyles. It's the Blood War writ small. Most powerful Earth Elementals are countered by more powerful Air Elementals, but at the bottom, it's the little guys slugging it out.

[Daishain]

Aararocka bother me for some reason. I suspect it's the sheer awkwardness of wings and arms interacting in the same region. They just look clumsy - Unintelligent Design, if you will pardon the expression.

I don't allow them as PCs because flight combined with grapple is murderous at low levels. Seize the victim, go straight up at 25' per round. If they break the grapple, they fall and die. If you let go, they fall and die unless they grappled you first. NPC Aararocka ought to do the same thing; if a flock fights the party look for your archers to be seized and carried into the air. And then dropped on your wizard.

If you bring these into your campaign, you have to explain why they aren't using grapple & drop tactics. Or, for that matter, picking up massive rocks and dropping those from 500' above the party. Gravity still works, and there is no reason for a creature that can lift a 50 pound rock and drop it from high above to ever come within arrow range. They may not hit often, but unless you can find sturdy shelter they only have to hit once.

I do like the idea of eternal war between the noble Aararocka and evil gargoyles. It's the Blood War writ small. Most powerful Earth Elementals are countered by more powerful Air Elementals, but at the bottom, it's the little guys slugging it out.
Very simple and realistic fix for both pc and npc bird men

Aarakocra's effective lift capacity is drastically reduced while flying. They might be able to pull off the 'grapple, fly, drop' trick with a kobold, but pretty much nothing larger than that.

Dropping rocks still presents a major hazard, but rocks large enough to be difficult to avoid can't be lifted, and dropping a small one from a high enough distance to make it a deadly threat would be a ranged attack roll at disadvantage (possibly with other penalties stacked on in extreme cases)

As for the weird aesthetics of both arms and wings, I've got nothing.

[Eldan]

To be fair, the Wind Dukes and the Rod of Seven Parts (I assume it's that one) aren't adventure path specific, they are both essential D&D multiverse background that shows up all over.

[Shining Wrath]

Very simple and realistic fix for both pc and npc bird men

Aarakocra's effective lift capacity is drastically reduced while flying. They might be able to pull off the 'grapple, fly, drop' trick with a kobold, but pretty much nothing larger than that.

Dropping rocks still presents a major hazard, but rocks large enough to be difficult to avoid can't be lifted, and dropping a small one from a high enough distance to make it a deadly threat would be a ranged attack roll at disadvantage (possibly with other penalties stacked on in extreme cases)

As for the weird aesthetics of both arms and wings, I've got nothing.

I agree totally that the amount an Aararocka should be able to fly with ought to be quite a bit less than what a walking person could carry. This is a good houserule; flight load is equal to 2x Strength. That includes whatever the Aararocka is carrying. However, a 30 pound rock chosen because it's fairly round will still be a cannon ball when dropped from altitude.

It's not just the aesthetics; it's that the muscles and bones that anchor the arms also must anchor the wings and vice-versa. There just isn't room for all the connections that need to be there. And yes, I'm getting dangerously close to injecting realism into our enchanted dwarf games. :smallbiggrin:

[EggKookoo]

And yes, I'm getting dangerously close to injecting realism into our enchanted dwarf games. :smallbiggrin:

Realism might be tough to achieve, but there's nothing wrong with looking for consistency.

[Ardantis]

Aarokocra (did I spell that right?) are interesting as the first elemental creatures a party is likely to encounter. I also like the idea of low-level elementals for each element- gargoyles for earth, for example. There are really no equivalents for water and fire, unless you count the Genasi.

Anyways, Elemental Evil is clearly the reason the Aarokocra have been spotlighted in this edition, but I think that characterization is a reasonable route to try and focus low-level adventuring parties on the realities of the Planes and their influence on the Material (especially nearby Planes like the Elemental ones).

So, because high-level (and high-fantasy) DnD eventually points the way towards planar issues as central to the great philosophical contests and struggles in the multiverse, it's useful to have low-level agents who are explicitly connected to the broader picture.

Not all DnD is pulp or low fantasy, and it's creatures like the Aarokocra which connect low-level play to high-level fantasy.

[-Jynx-]

I agree totally that the amount an Aararocka should be able to fly with ought to be quite a bit less than what a walking person could carry. This is a good houserule; flight load is equal to 2x Strength. That includes whatever the Aararocka is carrying. However, a 30 pound rock chosen because it's fairly round will still be a cannon ball when dropped from altitude.

It's not just the aesthetics; it's that the muscles and bones that anchor the arms also must anchor the wings and vice-versa. There just isn't room for all the connections that need to be there. And yes, I'm getting dangerously close to injecting realism into our enchanted dwarf games. :smallbiggrin:

I don't entirely agree with this. Aararocka (from the fluff that is presented) seem to walk as much as they fly (If not more so on the fly part, considering they are from the air plane). So it's logical to assume that their wings are as strong as say their legs.

Their arms wouldn't share the same muscles that their wings do anatomically except for back muscles. Sure back muscles are being strained when carrying an object, but that would hold true whether you were flying, or walking with something heavy. It stands to reason that if you could carry a 30lb rock up a staircase (your arms/shoulders, back, and leg muscles all working in conjunction to carry said object) that you could just as easily fly upward with a 30lb rock to drop it on someone.

Magnify that real life scenario with the fantasy exaggeration that is DnD (to avoid a simple "guy at the gym" fallacy) and there is nothing unreasonable about a bird person lifting a hefty amount of weight up in the air in a short amount of time.

[MaxWilson]

I don't entirely agree with this. Aararocka (from the fluff that is presented) seem to walk as much as they fly (If not more so on the fly part, considering they are from the air plane). So it's logical to assume that their wings are as strong as say their legs.

Their arms wouldn't share the same muscles that their wings do anatomically except for back muscles. Sure back muscles are being strained when carrying an object, but that would hold true whether you were flying, or walking with something heavy. It stands to reason that if you could carry a 30lb rock up a staircase (your arms/shoulders, back, and leg muscles all working in conjunction to carry said object) that you could just as easily fly upward with a 30lb rock to drop it on someone.

My solution: a flying Aarakocra's own body weight counts against his carry weight. A typical 90-lb Aarakocra with Strength 10 can carry a couple of javelins with no problem, or he could lift a 100-lb. elf with great difficulty (half speed), and that's about it. No carrying the 200-lb. fighter unless he is a Barbearian Aarakocra with double carry capacity, or has Enhance Ability (Strength) cast on him.

They do make fantastic monks though, and the Mobile feat on an Aarakocra is top-notch.

[MrConsideration]

But is it an African or European Aarackocra attempting to carry this rock?

[Shining Wrath]

I don't entirely agree with this. Aararocka (from the fluff that is presented) seem to walk as much as they fly (If not more so on the fly part, considering they are from the air plane). So it's logical to assume that their wings are as strong as say their legs.

Their arms wouldn't share the same muscles that their wings do anatomically except for back muscles. Sure back muscles are being strained when carrying an object, but that would hold true whether you were flying, or walking with something heavy. It stands to reason that if you could carry a 30lb rock up a staircase (your arms/shoulders, back, and leg muscles all working in conjunction to carry said object) that you could just as easily fly upward with a 30lb rock to drop it on someone.

Magnify that real life scenario with the fantasy exaggeration that is DnD (to avoid a simple "guy at the gym" fallacy) and there is nothing unreasonable about a bird person lifting a hefty amount of weight up in the air in a short amount of time.

IIRC the Aararocka's walking speed is 10, their flight speed, 50. Their legs are no match for their wings. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. In a "real world" situation an Aararocka is simply impossible, and anything even remotely like that would have hollow bones as our flying birds do - which would mean a solid blow with a mace ought to turn one into pudding. I hereby explicitly reject any and all considerations of physics, and instead argue from a play balance position; to me, it seems too powerful to let a humanoid fly with the same weight it can carry while walking, because you can pick up the archer, soar into the air, and drop him on the wizard. And then repeat it if either survived.


My solution: a flying Aarakocra's own body weight counts against his carry weight. A typical 90-lb Aarakocra with Strength 10 can carry a couple of javelins with no problem, or he could lift a 100-lb. elf with great difficulty (half speed), and that's about it. No carrying the 200-lb. fighter unless he is a Barbearian Aarakocra with double carry capacity, or has Enhance Ability (Strength) cast on him.

They do make fantastic monks though, and the Mobile feat on an Aarakocra is top-notch.

This is another way to restore some play balance - but with the nominal carrying capacity 15x strength, a 14 strength Aararocka can get 220 pounds into the air. If they weigh 100, their gear 30, they can still pick up halflings, gnomes, and many elves, and kill them with almost no effort.


But is it an African or European Aarackocra attempting to carry this rock?

You, sir, have won 0.4 Internets. Save up for a complete set!

[GiantOctopodes]

IIRC the Aararocka's walking speed is 10, their flight speed, 50. Their legs are no match for their wings. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. In a "real world" situation an Aararocka is simply impossible, and anything even remotely like that would have hollow bones as our flying birds do - which would mean a solid blow with a mace ought to turn one into pudding. I hereby explicitly reject any and all considerations of physics, and instead argue from a play balance position; to me, it seems too powerful to let a humanoid fly with the same weight it can carry while walking, because you can pick up the archer, soar into the air, and drop him on the wizard. And then repeat it if either survived.



This is another way to restore some play balance - but with the nominal carrying capacity 15x strength, a 14 strength Aararocka can get 220 pounds into the air. If they weigh 100, their gear 30, they can still pick up halflings, gnomes, and many elves, and kill them with almost no effort.


Meh, it's not as powerful as it's often made out to be. Beyond being foiled by a ceiling or a creature of large size or larger, dropping the creature does 1d6 damage per 10 feet. Since grappling replaces an attack, that means they're doing at most 5d6 damage in a round, and that's assuming they started next to the creature in question. Since for every foot they go up, they must come back down, it's actually 5d6 damage every other round (or 10d6 every 4 rounds, etc). Dropping it on another enemy and hitting, assuming the DM a) allows it to hit and b) rules that heavy falling objects deal damage to creatures equal to what the object itself would take, can double that damage, but even then, 5d6 damage per round is balanced as of 9th level (see Rogues). Now, the fact they can do this from level 1 is certainly a problem, and were it not for their complete lack of athletics I'd say there's no way they're a CR 1/2 creature, but as monsters I think they're fine.

As Players, a Aarakocra Arcane Trickster with self cast haste who moves 200' per round between their movement and bonus action dash, who grapples and then with their haste action attacks (with advantage thanks to the Grappler feat) for a potential 17d6 damage per round (27d6 if the DM allows dropping them on other enemies), sure, that's quite powerful. However I personally would never make it so they can't carry anything while flying, since if I was going to make it 2xStr for them, I'd have to make it 2xStr for all flying creatures (otherwise the game has an unacceptable lack of consistency for me) which would immediately eliminate all flying mounts from being possible. I'd much rather personally have the player be able to dominate encounters against medium sized or smaller creatures who lack flying speeds in wide open spaces, confident that as the DM I have control over the environment and the enemies to make the trick not work against anyone I want to be a credible threat. After all, it's no more encounter ending than hypnotic pattern or wall of force, and carries far more restrictions on when it's applicable.

[Shining Wrath]

Meh, it's not as powerful as it's often made out to be. Beyond being foiled by a ceiling or a creature of large size or larger, dropping the creature does 1d6 damage per 10 feet. Since grappling replaces an attack, that means they're doing at most 5d6 damage in a round, and that's assuming they started next to the creature in question. Since for every foot they go up, they must come back down, it's actually 5d6 damage every other round (or 10d6 every 4 rounds, etc). Dropping it on another enemy and hitting, assuming the DM a) allows it to hit and b) rules that heavy falling objects deal damage to creatures equal to what the object itself would take, can double that damage, but even then, 5d6 damage per round is balanced as of 9th level (see Rogues). Now, the fact they can do this from level 1 is certainly a problem, and were it not for their complete lack of athletics I'd say there's no way they're a CR 1/2 creature, but as monsters I think they're fine.

As Players, a Aarakocra Arcane Trickster with self cast haste who moves 200' per round between their movement and bonus action dash, who grapples and then with their haste action attacks (with advantage thanks to the Grappler feat) for a potential 17d6 damage per round (27d6 if the DM allows dropping them on other enemies), sure, that's quite powerful. However I personally would never make it so they can't carry anything while flying, since if I was going to make it 2xStr for them, I'd have to make it 2xStr for all flying creatures (otherwise the game has an unacceptable lack of consistency for me) which would immediately eliminate all flying mounts from being possible. I'd much rather personally have the player be able to dominate encounters against medium sized or smaller creatures who lack flying speeds in wide open spaces, confident that as the DM I have control over the environment and the enemies to make the trick not work against anyone I want to be a credible threat. After all, it's no more encounter ending than hypnotic pattern or wall of force, and carries far more restrictions on when it's applicable.

I always try to think from both sides of the problem - if my PCs can do it, so can my NPCs and monsters. That's just a basic rule and it shuts down some infamous cheese. Anyway, if the PCs can swoop down and carry away small and medium creatures, then a race of unfriendly Aarorocka (or, for that matter, gargoyles) ought to be able to swoop down, soar away with the party, and drop them all for 5d6 (or even 3d6) damage, then finish off the survivors. At low levels it is a devastating power, although as you point out it doesn't scale.

[Ralanr]

I do hope this discussion on flying birdlike humanoids as a fantasy race doesn't lead to an argument that angers people on account of realism.

So how about them Abolthies (I also cannot spell these creatures worth a damn)?

[-Jynx-]

IIRC the Aararocka's walking speed is 10, their flight speed, 50. Their legs are no match for their wings. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Their walk speed is actually 25ft so it's not far behind. On par with dwarves as "slightly behind the norm" which is not unusual considering well... they can fly.


In a "real world" situation an Aararocka is simply impossible, and anything even remotely like that would have hollow bones as our flying birds do - which would mean a solid blow with a mace ought to turn one into pudding.

I take it your dragons don't fly then? By your definition Oozes/puddings shouldn't be able to exist either. due to their size and lack of bone structure they would simply be a puddle. There is only so much real world physics you can apply to dnd.


I hereby explicitly reject any and all considerations of physics, and instead argue from a play balance position; to me, it seems too powerful to let a humanoid fly with the same weight it can carry while walking, because you can pick up the archer, soar into the air, and drop him on the wizard. And then repeat it if either survived.


It's only OP at early levels. Let's say level 5 and below. If you perpetually play in games that don't get any higher than level 5 then I can see not allowing the race. As characters gain more access to abilities (read: spells) mundane flight is much less of a balance issue. I'd also wager as you increase in levels, and you fight tougher monsters that they have the presence of mind to keep an eye on the bird struggling to fly a rock over its head (DM dependent, but if he's not willing to tailor enconunters to the party he's not doing a great job). Unless your dnd campaigns play out like looney toons in which case as long as your birdman can afford acme's anvils, he's all set.

[Shining Wrath]

Their walk speed is actually 25ft so it's not far behind. On par with dwarves as "slightly behind the norm" which is not unusual considering well... they can fly.



I take it your dragons don't fly then? By your definition Oozes/puddings shouldn't be able to exist either. due to their size and lack of bone structure they would simply be a puddle. There is only so much real world physics you can apply to dnd.



It's only OP at early levels. Let's say level 5 and below. If you perpetually play in games that don't get any higher than level 5 then I can see not allowing the race. As characters gain more access to abilities (read: spells) mundane flight is much less of a balance issue. I'd also wager as you increase in levels, and you fight tougher monsters that they have the presence of mind to keep an eye on the bird struggling to fly a rock over its head (DM dependent, but if he's not willing to tailor enconunters to the party he's not doing a great job). Unless your dnd campaigns play out like looney toons in which case as long as your birdman can afford acme's anvils, he's all set.

I'll agree that the advantages of the Aararocka diminish over time. OTOH, they make astonishing monks because speed and mobility bonuses start kicking in just as the advantages of flight at low levels start to fade. Unless you put them in rooms with low ceilings all the time, you've got someone that can always reach the wizard in the back row and stun him. The classic "mooks protecting caster" setup stops working at all without jumping through hoops.

Regarding the dragons, you probably noticed the next line was "I explicitly reject physics ...". The number of things that don't work if we start with F=MA is very large; for example, a gelatinous cube with the same density as water would weigh about 62,000 pounds. And it has a speed of 15, so it ought to be able to move down the hallway and slam into people with the same momentum as a 200 pound fighter with a speed of 4650 (528 MPH).

There is no physics at my table.

[-Jynx-]

I'll agree that the advantages of the Aararocka diminish over time. OTOH, they make astonishing monks because speed and mobility bonuses start kicking in just as the advantages of flight at low levels start to fade. Unless you put them in rooms with low ceilings all the time, you've got someone that can always reach the wizard in the back row and stun him. The classic "mooks protecting caster" setup stops working at all without jumping through hoops.

I'll agree the Aararocka can definitely exploit certain environments, however if you compare them to the popular wood elf you miss out on:
- Darkvision (which is huge imo your mileage my vary on DM, but seeing in the dark is a great advantage)
- 35ft movement speed (not huge, but when coupled specifically with monks bonus movement speeds it does add up)
- Crazy easy hiding via mask of the wild
- Keen sense: Prof. in perception is always useful, and it's free.
- Resistance to charm and can't be magically put asleep (also situational on your DM but really so are good flying conditions as a birdman)

I do think that the fly speed is a huge perk, it's just not as one-sided as it's made out to be. Plenty of other races have nice perks that make them just as good or better at classes.


Regarding the dragons, you probably noticed the next line was "I explicitly reject physics ...". The number of things that don't work if we start with F=MA is very large; for example, a gelatinous cube with the same density as water would weigh about 62,000 pounds. And it has a speed of 15, so it ought to be able to move down the hallway and slam into people with the same momentum as a 200 pound fighter with a speed of 4650 (528 MPH).

There is no physics at my table.

Fair enough. You just mentioned the bone composition with birds in relation to Aararocka and I felt it necessary to counterpoint.

[DracoKnight]

- 35ft movement speed (not huge, but when coupled specifically with monks bonus movement speeds it does add up)

VS. a 50 fly speed which also benefits from Monk movement bonuses, as the PHB says "movement speed" not "walking speed."

I'm not hating on the Aarakocra, as both a player and a DM I love them. They're fun to have in the environment, and the way one of my players RPs his Aarakocra Monk is hilarious, and semi-realistic. He put his 8 into CON to represent the hollow bones.

[RazDelacroix]

*pokes head into thread*

Did somebody say Aboleths?

[Ralanr]

*pokes head into thread*

Did somebody say Aboleths?

*raises hand*

[Brendanicus]

One of the things I like most about 5E's Monster Manual is that all the monsters, except for a small few, feel like they have a purpose, and could be incorporated into a game in an interesting manner without being redundant. The Bird-People are one of those exceptions, being super-lame.

I do love the writing you did, OP. Excited to see your take of Aboleths!

[Sigreid]

Aararocka bother me for some reason. I suspect it's the sheer awkwardness of wings and arms interacting in the same region. They just look clumsy - Unintelligent Design, if you will pardon the expression.

I don't allow them as PCs because flight combined with grapple is murderous at low levels. Seize the victim, go straight up at 25' per round. If they break the grapple, they fall and die. If you let go, they fall and die unless they grappled you first. NPC Aararocka ought to do the same thing; if a flock fights the party look for your archers to be seized and carried into the air. And then dropped on your wizard.

If you bring these into your campaign, you have to explain why they aren't using grapple & drop tactics. Or, for that matter, picking up massive rocks and dropping those from 500' above the party. Gravity still works, and there is no reason for a creature that can lift a 50 pound rock and drop it from high above to ever come within arrow range. They may not hit often, but unless you can find sturdy shelter they only have to hit once.

I do like the idea of eternal war between the noble Aararocka and evil gargoyles. It's the Blood War writ small. Most powerful Earth Elementals are countered by more powerful Air Elementals, but at the bottom, it's the little guys slugging it out.

I like the way they looked in earlier editions. Their hands were on their wings, their wings were their arms and their feet were talons that functioned as crude hands in flight. The we're very humanoid bird looking.

[Ralanr]

I like the way they looked in earlier editions. Their hands were on their wings, their wings were their arms and their feet were talons that functioned as crude hands in flight. The we're very humanoid bird looking.

That sounds like an interesting design.

[Sigreid]

That sounds like an interesting design.

I'm on my phone so I don't really have the functionality to easily link a pic, but I do know the image can be found via google.

[EggKookoo]

More like this, right?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/b/ba/Monstrous_manual_2e_-_Aarakocra_-_p5.png/revision/latest?cb=20150109150202

[Sigreid]

More like this, right?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/b/ba/Monstrous_manual_2e_-_Aarakocra_-_p5.png/revision/latest?cb=20150109150202

That's it. Weird color job.

[EggKookoo]

That's it. Weird color job.

Well, coupled with the pose, I suspect he just woke up from napping on the beach. "AAAAAAH sunburn!"

[Ralanr]

More like this, right?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/b/ba/Monstrous_manual_2e_-_Aarakocra_-_p5.png/revision/latest?cb=20150109150202

I figured the wings would be less...stapled to the arms.

[MrConsideration]

The older edition Aarakocra looks appropriately pulp. I can imagine Red Sonja killing one, which makes it much more palatable.

The Aboleth.

Another old favourite: it's a horrible Lovecraftian fish-monster that can control your mind. The Aboleth's deal is that it is that it once had a vast empire in shrouded ages before the Gods but is now reduced to squatting in dungeons - which is bizarrely common in the world of D&D. I can imagine the Ithilids and the Lizardmen and all the other primordial empire bunch queueing up for their turn to build an empire with great magical advancement that then collapses without a trace. You probably can't move for ancient ruins in the average D&D campaign.

I do find that a hard thing to DM though: why is the scion of a world-ruling empire squatting in this dungeon in a glorified jacuzzi? However, I simultaneously find it hard to see the Aboleth as a behind-the-scenes schemer because it's so strange: it wouldn't comprehend the motivations of any humanoids underlings, and what the hell would it scheme for?

Still, everything about the Aboleth communicates weirdness, oldness. If I used one in a combat encounter I would never say 'Aboleth' - it would just be 'this loathsome presence' or 'a tentacled shape in the water' - I think for the scariness of the Aboleth to work is has to remain alien and unknowable.

Art
I really like this piece. It looks slow, languorous, nonplussed. The not-quite-fins-not-quite-tentacles and green stain on the page highlight the freakiness of this beast. It's old, it's weird, and you are a strange mayfly from the surface.



Purpose and Tactics
It's a boss - a big, millenia-old cheese. Either lurking at the bottom of a temple which holds the maguffin, surrounded by fishy minions, or masterminding a scheme to restore the Pax Abolethia. It will definitely rule over the region in which it is resident, and direct the attacks from afar.

(However, as a digression: I do like the idea of it just being in a pool in a dungeon by accident. It limply strokes your players, and tries desperately to win their loyalty with its telepathy. It's lonely, a thousand-year loneliness, an abyss of impossible depression that makes you wonder that such a thing still lives, sadly caressing you in this pool, prodding you with psychic fervour in a desperate attempt to connect to another living thing. This sole witness. The Last Aboleth...)

Nevermind such sentimentality: your player characters are going to fireball the big fishy sod anyway. In terms of scrapping, the Aboleth is an interesting player. It has a number of melee attacks which have strange effects, essentially forcing enemies to become briefly aquatic - the inconvenience of this, and the fun of any Aboleth combat, will depend on the geography. How much water are you in? Are you submerged? Are you on a ship? A partially-flooded temple? Underwater, the Aboleth will have an advantage which, weirdly, it nullifies throughout the combat by making its enemies aquatic. In an environment that has both water and land, it could easily render the party stuck in the water and then move on to the land for a tactical advantage. It can then unleash it's lair actions to punish them further.

Unless the focus it on its nasty, signature mind control. The possibility to taking control of 3(!) player characters makes the Aboleth very nasty, and the only listed solutions (travelling to a different plane, or a mile away) are unlikely to take place until after the fight. Not to mention, these can be drained for HP as a lair action, making knocking them unconscious a risky gambit - the Aboleth might just finish off their brain!

For an Aboleth fight to work, it needs minions. Whilst aberrations or other fishies make a good fit, consider using 'enslaved' humanoid adventurers too. The regional effects give you the option of a decoy Aboleth leading a first wave whilst the real deal plots another plan of attack. I'd advise chucking in some mooks, but spell-casters too. Outside from some very specific and situational debuffs, the Aboleth doesn't have much in the way of control of statuses - adding a Priest with some spells might really increase an Aboleth's ability to control the battlefield, and some spells have great synergy with the weird water conditions it inflicts, like Create/Destroy Water, or spells that force movement.

Fluff
An enemy of the Gods that can never forget its hatred. Excellent - the Aboleths are hate-filled, arrogant, and the world is theirs to reclaim. This fluff gives an excellent motivation for opposing the PCs, and I imagine an Aboleth would take particular pleasure in enslaving a divine caster character. Their control of delusional characters allows you to inject some personality into their underlings too: the High Priest of the Old Ones who serves the Aboleth could be reclining at an empty table, loudly explaining to the imaginary crowd how finally Grognir One-Eye has made his way in the world as a great Cleric....counting imaginary wealth...meeting imaginary lovers. If the Aboleth is a recurring villain, the ability to consume memories gives it a unique ability to taunt the PCs, and know them innately. It may be unknowable, but you can be read - consumed - filed away and never forgotten. The only weakness for this fluff is it has so much in common with other creatures, in particular the Mind Flayers, but I think the Aboleth has far more resonance.

Hooks

To defeat , ancient knowledge is needed. It can only be found in the lost underwater library of Abythir, where an Aboleth rules as living god, assimilating all information it can....

They say on the island of Audunfey, ship captains can be struck by a fit of madness, and dash their ships on the rocks purposefully. As sailors try to escape the wreckage, a dark shape drifts underneath, pulling some into the depths....

A strangely-behaved man approaches the player characters, with tics and strange murmurings. They have recently come into possession of an artefact they do not understand, but it has an owner...

The Cult of the Old Ones have ransacked the Elven Libraries. Soon, they will have everything they need to release the Old Ones, and force the world to begin anew...

[B]Verdict: Brilliantly weird and grotesque; will make a particular impact on newer players. A great monster.

Playgrounders: have we ever used an Aboleth before? How did it go?

[RazDelacroix]

The 3.5 Edition book Lords of Madness gives us a good dichotomy between the Aboleth and the Illithid. Aboleths' have been around since the beginning, and Illithids FREAK Aboleths out because the big ole' fishies cannot remember how the Illithids came to be.

Because time-travel shenanigans on the Illithids part. Heck, their earliest time-line empire is technically their latest attempt at recreated the current' future's illithid empire that will take over everything before something scares the Illithids into packing in and going back in time to prevent the disaster that forced them to abandon their greatest empire bu- *We're sorry, Blue-Screen-Plot-Line-Of-Death has occurred*.

[Ardantis]

Aboleths are a great opportunity for the bad guy to inexplicably know things about the PCs back stories, motivations, and current objectives. They give credence to the paladin's upbringing, the wizard's mysterious familiar, and the crazed old man's musings in the way only an ancient psychic fish monster can.

They have the lowest CR of creatures with lair actions. They are the first true 'boss monster' a 5e party can encounter.

They are the real deal. They make parties legitimate by being an outside force which can inexplicably care about knowing what the party values, then they are a kickass boss encounter.

The end.

[Ralanr]

Aboleths are a great opportunity for the bad guy to inexplicably know things about the PCs back stories, motivations, and current objectives. They give credence to the paladin's upbringing, the wizard's mysterious familiar, and the crazed old man's musings in the way only an ancient psychic fish monster can.

They have the lowest CR of creatures with lair actions. They are the first true 'boss monster' a 5e party can encounter.

They are the real deal. They make parties legitimate by being an outside force which can inexplicably care about knowing what the party values, then they are a kickass boss encounter.

The end.

Very good for manipulation I agree. I'd love for a story heavy party to fight them, either killing themselves or gaining a level of trust like none had seen before in the process.

And the fact that they never really die is all the more frightening. Reincarnation with perfect memories makes one enemy you want to use an imprisonment spell on for all eternity.

[Tallis]

Never used an Abeloth before but now I want to. :smallyuk:

[Notafish]

I used an aboleth in a 3.5 game as a monster of the week. I could have done a better job integrating it into the plot (it was just an obstacle for the players as they made their way to an island in the middle of a lake), but in hindsight I didn't need to -- the encounter was terrifying enough for the players that the campaign went from feeling like heroic fantasy to fantasy horror in the course of a single session (which was very convenient to the story arc, as it turned out). Between mind control, illusions, and no-one in the party having access to a water-breathing spell, it was very good at putting the characters' lives in danger and swimming off to fight another day.

Looking at the 5e aboleth, it looks like a similarly challenging mid-level encounter/BBEG. If I used it, I would want to make sure to use the illusory duplicate regional effect, particularly if I were playing with new players. Since it's a (semi)-aquatic enemy, though, I'd want to specify that only solid objects pass through the illusion -- it would break my immersion* if the illusory aboleth didn't create a wake.

*not sorry at all :smalltongue:

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I can imagine the Ithilids and the Lizardmen and all the other primordial empire bunch queueing up for their turn to build an empire with great magical advancement that then collapses without a trace.

Really, it's very Lovecraftian. The mythos is also full of old races that once had mighty empires that are now gone.

Of course, D&D usually tries to avoid the implication that Lovecraft draws, which is that mankind is simply the latest in the queue and will leave as much trace in the end. Aboleths and Illithids can both draw the mind to that conclusion in different ways.

[Naanomi]

Aboleths serve great in a less hostile role as well... Need information on how to kill the demon prince? Stop the ascension of the evil God? The true name of the ancient beyond ancient lich? Well deep in that forgotten cave lies a being that might have answers for you... But at what cost? Will you even truly understand what you are doing for its agenda when it demands you (kill the seemingly neutral dragon, drive off the lizardmen, get Bob a noble title, whatever)? If things go south and the party turns on it, will its last words be 'excellent, all according to my plans'?

[Shining Wrath]

I have not used an aboleth yet, but they are amazingly flavorful. One possible use, as noted, is as a not-immediately-hostile source of information; you do things for them, they tell you things they remember from eons past. Of course, you know that their long term plans are inimical to humanoid life - but long term may be far enough in the future that even elves don't care.

There ought to be some sort of quasi-rivalry, quasi-allied relationship between aboleths and kraken. Both are aquatic beasties with a deep-seated hatred of the gods. I can easily see a party having to work with an aboleth in order to learn the secret to defeating the kraken that is destroying coastal cities and shipping.

I believe that the CR 5 unicorn can have legendary and lair actions - AFB. But most of the time DMs don't use unicorns as BBEG.

EDIT: Aboleths reform on the elemental plane of water when you kill them - so to truly defeat one, you have to travel to the plane of water and kill it again, there. Good luck with that.

[hymer]

I believe that the CR 5 unicorn can have legendary and lair actions - AFB. But most of the time DMs don't use unicorns as BBEG.

Legendary actions, yes. Its lair effects are only regional and optional.

[Ralanr]

Legendary actions, yes. Its lair effects are only regional and optional.

Well evil parties need bosses.

I actually want to see a unicorn fight now...

[Ardantis]

Oh man I totally did forget about their non-adversarial function. They make great fonts of age-old secrets, but the implication must be that in exchange they will use you, and use you for less-than-good-for-humanity reasons.

I did forget about Unicorns, although in my defense and as mentioned, they are not usually BBEGs.

[MrStabby]

So I don't usually like mind affecting abilities as they kind of spoil the fun for players - I think they should be used sparingly. However, I do love the Aboleth. I have yet to really run a more aquatic campaign but these guys tempt me to.

[DireSickFish]

I have not used or met an Abolith even though I think they are one of the best most iconic monsters of D&D. There is just so much to live up to when using an Abolith. There plans should be far reaching or long in nature much like a dragon but unlike a dragon they don't have the immediate need or satisfaction of gold and bloodshed.

If I use one it's -going- to be central tot he plot. I really like the illusionary Abolith they create. It allows me to have him show up early and mess with the party without worrying they will kill it. Using one requires a lot more planning from me than if I want to say spring a pack of owlbears on the party. Or even if I have a goblin raising an army.

Overall one of the best monsters in the DMG.

[Ralanr]

I have not used or met an Abolith even though I think they are one of the best most iconic monsters of D&D. There is just so much to live up to when using an Abolith. There plans should be far reaching or long in nature much like a dragon but unlike a dragon they don't have the immediate need or satisfaction of gold and bloodshed.

If I use one it's -going- to be central tot he plot. I really like the illusionary Abolith they create. It allows me to have him show up early and mess with the party without worrying they will kill it. Using one requires a lot more planning from me than if I want to say spring a pack of owlbears on the party. Or even if I have a goblin raising an army.

Overall one of the best monsters in the DMG.

The way you describe it makes me think it'd be a higher CR.

I know not all campaigns go from 1-20 (few do I think), so it's at a good area to be commonly used. They might make common BBEG's in a low magic setting.

[Naanomi]

Their low CR helps atmosphere sometimes, as sort of an anti-climax boss. You kill the dragon, defeat the cult, storm the temple... And after it all is the physically weak (by your high level standards) but brilliant mastermind orchestrating it all, one that doesn't even care if you kill it after you did all that work for it...

[Shining Wrath]

Their low CR helps atmosphere sometimes, as sort of an anti-climax boss. You kill the dragon, defeat the cult, storm the temple... And after it all is the physically weak (by your high level standards) but brilliant mastermind orchestrating it all, one that doesn't even care if you kill it after you did all that work for it...

I really am toying with a campaign someday where the party has to defeat the aboleth - who then reforms and returns to the same general area and they have to defeat it again - repeat a couple of times until the now very high level party finishes the job once and for all on the elemental plane of water, after the penultimate quest to find the artifact that will let them survive further out into the plane than humanoids usually go.

And then fight their way home as the whole plane rises up in fear of their artifact. Because the Lords of Water do not like this artifact, not at all.

[MrConsideration]

The Angel

In my personal understanding, Gary Gygax deliberately avoided including angels in the game because he was uncomfortable about players killing them. Personally, I don't like their execution very much, and I feel they don't really fit the lore of the assumed settings - if Angels are all LG who works for Chaotic Evil Gods? I also feel they're more likely to be used to police player actions than any other purpose - when players speak to an angel, they're not speaking to Pelor - they're speaking to their matronly DM who has some stern words to say about what happened to that Unicorn.

If your party is evil, I still find the idea of getting them to fight Angels quite melodramatic. And if you win? Surely Pelor just dispatches fifty more Solars to finish the job.

I'd much rather use Angels as detached from the Gods - perhaps undertaking a mission set centuries ago, or only have a dim recollection of a connection with the Gods - this brings them down to the level of other beings your players might encounter. I can see them being used as guardians of artifacts, for example.

I'll cover the Angels as one entry, because they don't interest me over much and because Wizards have done the Diablo thing where the same sprite is re-used in a different colour for a higher-level foe.

Art
Angels are pastel-coloured bodybuilders with wings - perhaps the least interesting 'angel' imaginable. Where are the wheels covered in eyes? The faces attacked to a thousand wings? Description of Judeo-Christian Angels are really alien, and would resemble the variety of their counterparts in Hell and The Abyss. The Solar is clearly taken from the cover of a cheesey Mills and Boon novel called An Affair in the Astral Plane or Wings of Desire. These Angels are far too human, and far, far too bland.

Purpose and Tactics
Almost all the Angels function in the same way, with extra abilities tacked on as they become mightier. The range of CR gives you a number of options for boss-fights all the way up, and most of the Angels are pretty handy in a fight. Being able to fly is an obvious advantage in terms of mobility, and the Solar can pair that with Invisibility to be a true annoyance. Each of them has a large number of resistances which you will definitely forget to track. However, I find the tactics implied by the abilities to be not particularly angelic: surely angels would fearlessly charge in with their weapons and punish the evildoers, not skulk around invisible using control spells?

They seem, offensively, a little limited, so if using them seriously in a combat encounter I'd pair them with something they could support: a group of paladins, for example. The Deva, in particular, seems a lot weaker than the Aboleth despite being the same CR. Maybe good guys really do finish last?

Each Angels has a grab-bag of immunities and resistances which make them quite handy at fighting your spellcasters - especially as any battlefield with an Angel on it will be difficult to control or contain - any self-respecting Angel should be multiattacking your party's evil Wizard as much as possible to try and shutdown the party.

All the Angels have innate spellcasting (although the Deva's is quite wimpy) and most of the spells have an Old Testament feel: Insect Plague, Flame Strike, Control Weather . This helps make Angels feel wrathful, and primordial in combat. A lot of the other spells and abilities are clearly intended to support other characters in battle: but I feel if an Angel is fighting in cahoots with your players it is going to be very hard to challenge them or make them be useful in that combat without diminishing the Angel's power. Additionally, even the weakest Angels have access to resurrection. As someone who plays in a death-is-death world, I find the idea of a DM-ex machina dropping an Angel on the party to heal their boo-boos a little annoying.

Fluff
The fluff specifies that angels are unyielding and can never be persuaded, which makes them pretty useless for a social encounter of any kind. Angels are never wrong, are good and true and noble and strong. I'm afraid the Angel fluff does nothing for me.
There is information on Fallen Angels, which is far more useful: some have fallen properly and become Devils, others have sauntered vaguely downwards and now live as hermits in the Astral plane - these would make great figures to interact with - you could characterise them as eccentrics, or Astral cops who didnt-do-it-by-the-Holy-Book-but-goddamit-they-got-results. These figures have much more possibilities, and in my campaign world any angel you'd actually encounter would be one of these ex-angels.

Hooks

A Fallen Angel is making his home on a mountaintop on the Prime Material. A group of monks study under him, and he is wracked by guilt that he as become a leader to them - because he still doesn't know what sin made him fall. Could your players uncover where the Angel went wrong?

An Angel guards [maguffin], and always has. He will only relinquish it to those who an prove their worthiness to defend it.

A Fallen Angel has packed up his wings and now lives incognito in the city of [Your campaign world]. However, a group of demon-hunters are hunting him as a fallen angel. How will your players intervene?

In an ancient tomb, your players uncover the True Name of an Angel - and the ritual required to summon it for 15 minutes to the Prime Material. Do they dare be judged? What could they achieve with this mighty ally in fifteen minutes?

Verdict: Uninspiring but functional - use the stats but ignore the fluff, if you must stat up Angels at all.

[Ralanr]

I preferred having Angels and Demons run on blue and orange morality. They don't have a choice between good and evil like mortals, and they'll do extremes for the greater good (or evil).

[MrStabby]

Angels can be fun, but less so the ones in the book.

Powerful good aligned creatures that can have a few supernatural abilities to make some interesting encounters seems good. I like the suggestion of using them to support other encounters.

Personally I like the style of using them as a template. Characters who do great deeds may become angelic and become native to the celestial plane. They may still be a level 17 fighter or a level 18 wizard but they are an angelic fighter or wizard.

[EggKookoo]

I preferred having Angels and Demons run on blue and orange morality. They don't have a choice between good and evil like mortals, and they'll do extremes for the greater good (or evil).

Yes, kind of like Holy Terminators, just with varying targets. Angels go after evil John Conners.

[Ralanr]

Yes, kind of like Holy Terminators, just with varying targets. Angels go after evil John Conners.

Which is what makes them absolutely terrifying. A demon (devil more likely) you can persuade with something more beneficial. An angel isn't going to stop or question the ethics of what it's doing.

An angel will kill a child in order to save a thousand people, and it doesn't need to worry about sleeping later.

That's the extreme of it obviously.

[DireSickFish]

I think the new Angel fluff is cool. It just doesn't make sense in every setting. I think part of the oddness with Angels is that they are so closely tied with the gods, and the gods change from setting to setting. In FR I couldn't see an Angel of Cyric really doing much, as there wouldn't be much Cyric would want him to do and that a LG angel would conset to doing.

In my homebrew setting however this lore is much more palpable where the 5 gods I have set up all more or less work together and have good/evil aspects that people worship. An Angel of death in my setting would make sense.

If you've read SilverClawShift's campaign journal that use of an angel lines up closely with what you have outlined. She's a McGuffin that can give exposition and shows just how evil the badguys are.

Angels personalities to me seem defined by there devotion to duty. Whatever holy task they have is the most important thing, and even if others have noble goals if it falls outside his taks he can't help. And an angel that shirks his duties or finds loopholes in interesting -because- of the weight duty they usually have.

The one time I've used an angel he was there to give out a holy quest as a messenger of the parties god before leaving. Didn't need stats for that. Granted it was a servant of the war god so he -would- have accepted any challenges to a fight and given out even more boons if he had been defeated.

[EggKookoo]

Which is what makes them absolutely terrifying. A demon (devil more likely) you can persuade with something more beneficial. An angel isn't going to stop or question the ethics of what it's doing.

An angel will kill a child in order to save a thousand people, and it doesn't need to worry about sleeping later.

That's the extreme of it obviously.

I am in love with this concept. Now I just need to figure out how to fit it into my game.

[Naanomi]

In my experience angels fall under four useful roles:
-background pieces in really holy places or the upper planes
-messengers from the gods when 'kill the messenger' is something you want possible
-a thing to send after players if they really blow it morally
-if they have fallen or are falling

The last has the most potential, ironically being when they are least angel-like...

[Ralanr]

In my experience angels fall under four useful roles:
-background pieces in really holy places or the upper planes
-messengers from the gods when 'kill the messenger' is something you want possible
-a thing to send after players if they really blow it morally
-if they have fallen or are falling

The last has the most potential, ironically being when they are least angel-like...

And more common than demons/devils rising.

Are we as a species just naturally cynical?

[strangebloke]

I'm 100% on the same page about boring-looking angels. Whoever designed these suckers was feeling particularly uninspired.

[Ralanr]

I'm 100% on the same page about boring-looking angels. Whoever designed these suckers was feeling particularly uninspired.

I've seen a couple pieces of 4e artwork recycled for 5e honestly. Kinda wish they did that for the Deva, purple with white markings and bald was more interesting.

I'm fine with the regular angel design in a lot of fantasy aspects. But D&D has **** like the owlbear. And then we have all those crazy demon/devil designs.

[tieren]

I am curious if anyone has used these in a monotheistic campaign setting.

A friend of mine in college was putting a lot of work into a christian based campaign setting for DnD (kind of more like Narnia than the real world). I always thought the idea of fluffing everything to fit that concept could be pretty cool, but never got around to trying it myself.

[Shining Wrath]

I think it's silly that angels have to be lawful. Chaotic deities would have chaotic angels that obeyed from free will, because they serve their deity out of a conscious decision that this god represents what they believe in. And being angels, they would be right, so unless the god changed, they wouldn't switch allegiances.

Evil gods would use demons / devils instead of angels. I'm not sure what the relationship between Demogorgon and Erthynul is like, other than complicated, but I'm sure Erthynul can borrow a Balor or three when he needs to.

Angels ought to show up when it makes sense that a good aligned god would want to intervene. Depending on setting, that's "never" or "whenever the party is in a tough spot" or "as a climactic moment to indicate that yes, you just did something very special".

Our last campaign (3.5) involved the dragons, and their gods, having been banished from the world, with the gods trapped in orbs. When the three orbs were finally reunited (party had two, BBNG had Io's), a Solar showed up and demanded the three orbs and released the gods from their imprisonment. BBNG was a blue dragon. He didn't recognize the solar, but Io (from inside his orb) certainly did, and the blue dragon surrendered. Literally a Deus Ex Machina, but the whole point of the campaign had been to not only meddle in the affairs of dragons, but draconic deities, so it worked.

For 5e, I can see an angel coming in response to the Cleric's Miracle class feature. "Pelor, save us!", and rolls 20 on the D20. Sound of Star Trek teleporter, and Deva appears.

[Naanomi]

In Planescape Angels work well as the 'greater good'; when archons and guardinals and eladrin start bickering, Angels are there to remind everyone of the real enemy.

Ironically, since they are tied to the good Gods, they also make servicable 'good Vs good' opponents when two dogmatic LG gods start opposing each other and archons wouldn't have any part in the battle; Angels are the soldiers to use (and adventuring parties). So yeah, Planescape: Angels more useful

[strangebloke]

I am curious if anyone has used these in a monotheistic campaign setting.

A friend of mine in college was putting a lot of work into a christian based campaign setting for DnD (kind of more like Narnia than the real world). I always thought the idea of fluffing everything to fit that concept could be pretty cool, but never got around to trying it myself.

We did this.

Post-apocalyptic setting where a war between heaven and hell had left the world completely unlivable without magic. All magic was derived from a silvery substance called gendum that the planar creatures had left behind. Clerics tattooed the substance into their skin, wizards mixed it with ink and drew out spell formulas, etc. The silvery substance was expended after use, and the few pockets of civilization that existed relied on their ability to find more of the substance in ruins.

Currency=magic=life. Very fun setting.

We actually used different stat blocks for the angels than the ones in the MM. Seraphim were essentially gods, each with their own unique host of lower level angels. Michael's used the typical stat blocks, but had the super alien look; Lucifer had demons, of course. Everybody's favorites were Metatron and his machine-angels. So many transformers jokes.

[Nifft]

I think it's silly that angels have to be lawful.

Accept
No
Good
Except
Lawful

(But seriously, monotheistic concepts like unambiguously Good Angels don't work for me in a polytheistic, many-different-types-of-good setting. Give me stuff like Archons vs. Couatls, please.)

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Accept
(But seriously, monotheistic concepts like unambiguously Good Angels don't work for me in a polytheistic, many-different-types-of-good setting. Give me stuff like Archons vs. Couatls, please.)
I think it would fit better if they did the same thing as demons and devils-- some of them work for gods but most of them have their own society led by 'angel lords', making them simply the good planes' counterparts to fiends. The other thing they should borrow from demons and devils is having a wide variety of designs and types for alignments.

Actually, now that I start talking about this, I'm pretty sure the ideal way of handling angels owes more to Planescape than D&D 5th edition.

[Eldan]

Angels were always the odd ones out that made little sense. You have the nine exemplar races for the alignments that follow their own lords, instead of any gods, the Slaad, Eladrin, Guardinal, Archon, Modron, Devils, Yugoloth and Demons, and then, weirdly stuck on their as well, you have the angels, servitors of the gods, who, for some reason, only follow the good gods and create a massive imbalance. It never made much sense.

I prefer using them as rarely as possible and giving the gods personalized servants instead.

[RazDelacroix]

For my own setting at least, I have Angels from the 5th Ed MM as being of any good alignment (THAT'S PLANESCAPE BABY!), however there are other angels that can be formed from the focused and/or errant thoughts of deities. Even/especially evil deities. They just might not...look angelic. Like the one with thirteen eyes upon an infant's face with the body of a wheel and moves by flapping it's moulting wings against the unseen winds of orphan's cries.

You know, the one behind you looking over your shoulder.

[Eldan]

One idea I had is that the pastel winged body builder is an image they project. They are all weird and alien and horrifying, but disguise themselves as something humanoid when interacting with people, then uncloak when they are ready to smite some cities.

[Ralanr]

Wait...I thought demons and devils didn't work with gods? I assumed they outright hated them.

[DireSickFish]

Wait...I thought demons and devils didn't work with gods? I assumed they outright hated them.

A lot of evil dieties have demon and devils that follow them/they use much like good dieties use angels. Some because they make there home planes in the Abyss or Hell and others because it's relativly easy for a god to bully them into submission.

Lolth for example had a plane of the abyss called the demonweb pits as her home and Yochlol's are her servants and also demons.

What else would you use as a go between for gods to mortals besides demons/devils?

[RazDelacroix]

Sure, fiends and deities of all stripes really do not like each other. You know what a fiend likes though? Power. Souls. The chance to corrupt mortals into performing evil deeds.

When the aims of a deity and fiend are aligned, you can find the two bargaining on the soul market for favors and plot-relevant-trinkets. An angel of good works well with good deities to spread the goodness around. An evil angel/fiend works with evil deities on a strictly business/pleasure basis.

Man, wish I had my brother's Planescape Hellbound box stuff with me. Books in there had this topic COVERED.

[Ralanr]

What else would you use as a go between for gods to mortals besides demons/devils?

Evil avatars or some form of evil outsider.

Yeah I didn't think much on that.

[Naanomi]

4E had angels working for evil gods as well as good

Some theorize there are evil equivalents of angels but they are hidden/have been sealed away due to Blood War machinations (or older similar conflicts)

Others say it isn't in Evil's nature to have a unifying force in the way Good does

[Shining Wrath]

One idea I had is that the pastel winged body builder is an image they project. They are all weird and alien and horrifying, but disguise themselves as something humanoid when interacting with people, then uncloak when they are ready to smite some cities.

CS Lewis had their natural shape being more or less a column of light, but they could take whatever form they thought would work best for their audience.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

For my own setting at least, I have Angels from the 5th Ed MM as being of any good alignment (THAT'S PLANESCAPE BABY!), however there are other angels that can be formed from the focused and/or errant thoughts of deities. Even/especially evil deities. They just might not...look angelic. Like the one with thirteen eyes upon an infant's face with the body of a wheel and moves by flapping it's moulting wings against the unseen winds of orphan's cries.

Not angelic looking? What are you talking about? That sounds more like a Biblical angel than the guys in the Monster Manual.

[Sigreid]

Angels as described in the MM are just manifestations of the deity's will and power. Kinda like a mini-me avatar. Sometimes they go rogue, and I kinda see that as the deity offloading their psychosis/mental imbalances/personality defects allowing the deity to stay true. Imagine if you could take all your fear, anger, hate, doubt and place it in a character in a MMO and let it run amok while you go happily on without them.

[Envyus]

It should be noted that Angels are not always right. They think they are always right and because of this they won't compromise. This is stated as a reason in the manual as why some of them fall.

Zariel Lady of the First Layer of Hell is stated to be a fallen angel who became a devil. Like Baalzebul who was an Archon who became a Devil.

[Ralanr]

It should be noted that Angels are not always right. They think they are always right and because of this they won't compromise. This is stated as a reason in the manual as why some of them fall.

Zariel Lady of the First Layer of Hell is stated to be a fallen angel who became a devil. Like Baalzebul who was an Archon who became a Devil.

Yep, which is what I love about Angels. You cannot convince them that they may be wrong because everything is black and white to them.

Helps show that the concept of grey morality is a mortal concept.

[Dreadfull]

If you bring these into your campaign, you have to explain why they aren't using grapple & drop tactics. Or, for that matter, picking up massive rocks and dropping those from 500' above the party. Gravity still works, and there is no reason for a creature that can lift a 50 pound rock and drop it from high above to ever come within arrow range. They may not hit often, but unless you can find sturdy shelter they only have to hit once.

a 500 ft fall takes roughly 6 seconds. This gives the party pretty much a round to dodge. Iirc a round is stil supposed to represent around 6 seconds, right?

[Ralanr]

a 500 ft fall takes roughly 6 seconds. This gives the party pretty much a round to dodge. Iirc a round is stil supposed to represent around 6 seconds, right?

Yep. 1 round is 6 seconds.

[RazDelacroix]

Not angelic looking? What are you talking about? That sounds more like a Biblical angel than the guys in the Monster Manual.

Tell that to the poor commoners who only ever heard of the fluffy-winglies.

[Shining Wrath]

a 500 ft fall takes roughly 6 seconds. This gives the party pretty much a round to dodge. Iirc a round is stil supposed to represent around 6 seconds, right?

Ever play baseball? Ever see someone hit a towering pop-up and the infielders have no idea where it's going to land? When I coached Little League, I coached my outfielders to help the infielders out in that situation.

Judging exactly where something is going to land when it is dropped from straight above you is non-trivial. Since it's a rock it's not perfectly smooth, there's all sorts of aerodynamic effects making it shift course, which makes it difficult compared to the baseball popup.

So yes, if the party is aware the aararocka dropped the rocka they can attempt to dodge. They may even dodge successfully. If they are somewhere with constraints on how far they can run (ship, canyon, mountain top) it might not work.

In which case the birdman goes and gets another rock. Even if he's dropping one rock every 2 or 3 minutes, unless you can get under cover, sooner or later someone will zig when they should have zagged.

EDIT: True story: Babe Ruth once hit a pop up that went so high the 2nd baseman got dizzy trying to watch it and fell down, and the ball landed next to him. Babe only got a double out of it because he was laughing too hard to run :smallsmile:

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Judging exactly where something is going to land when it is dropped from straight above you is non-trivial. Since it's a rock it's not perfectly smooth, there's all sorts of aerodynamic effects making it shift course, which makes it difficult compared to the baseball popup.

Wait... Are you arguing the party shouldn't be able to dodge or that the bird men shouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of hitting them? Because you've just made the strategy seem terrible.

[MrConsideration]

Animated Objects

Animated Objects are objects that have been animated by magic, funnily enough. In most games I've seen similar things used, they've been somewhere between a monster and a trap: you tried to nick a few goldpieces from the ceremonial armour's codpiece and now it's kicking your head in. There's little in the way of implied story ('a wizard made it') and these things fit in almost any encounter or situation: dusty tombs, abandoned castles, gardens, harems, magic shops, temples...
In older editions, there were lengthy explanations of what level a character had to be, and how much it would cost, to make similar objects themselves. To me it always seemed fairly pointless for an adventurer, but I think these could be used as guards in player-owned keeps or properties in a high-magic campaign.

Diplomacy does not work: these creatures are inexorable in following their orders. This tends to make for tedious encounters in my view, as the PCs are only going to overcome these animated objects by destroying them: there's no room for imaginative wheeling-and-dealing or creative solutions. This is a combat encounter. Roll initiative and get on with it.

I personally think they're useful for people who DM with children to avoid any actual violence going on, whilst letting their players enjoy some combat.

I'll deal with the Animated Objects as one entry.

Art
The Animated Armour is campy yet functional. The spikes and decoration are over-the-top and a bit silly, but they'e managed to convey a menace; a motion - the Animated Armour has bowed it's head, as though to duck under a ceiling to approach: it's a hulking, impassive machine.

The Flying Sword is a picture of a sword. It is, again, functional, but pretty hard to get excited about. It's testament to the money WOTC put into production values that this somehow merits a picture - in the old AD&D Monster Manual loads of creatures go undrawn (perhaps for the best).

The Rug of Smothering looks quite expressive considering it's a carpet, but the expression I'm getting is more puppydog-eager-to-please than furniture of doom. I'm not sure how it could be much better though - the idea of a carpet that murders you is stupid from the outset.

Purpose and Tactics

The purpose of these creatures is to be killed by your PCs. There is no Gygaxian naturalism here - these beings do not eat, or drink, or breathe, so all you need to explain the existence of one is that someone, somewhere, at sometime, did not want anyone poking around in this place.

The Animated Armour works as a low-level solo encounter, but could also be muscle and cannon-fodder for a higher-level spell-casting foe. Whilst the Wizard brings out the big guns, the Animated Armour(s) march towards your PCs and physically slow-down. For their CR, their defences are solid (although how a living suit of armour counts as 'natural armour' is beyond me) and they have a list of immunities to any status your PC might think to put on them.
The Flying Sword is much the same, and could function as a mook for a spell-caster too.

The Rug of Smothering has another trick up its sleeve (or is that the Cloaker?) in that it pretends to be a rug then ambushes you from beneath. Anyone being grappled by the Rug gets half the damage inflicted on it. This is a nasty ability, but fairly useless if the Rug is attacking alone - I'd put one of these Rugs in a room where a different battle is taking place and have a PC stumble on to it - giving the other characters the option of damaging it, affecting a rescue, or continuing their battle and hoping their hapless comrade escapes.

The ability to Dispel
these enemies, or use Antimagic to disrupt them adds another element to the combat, but with 5e's philosophy of rulings over rules I don't think I needed it explaining to me what the effect would be - if the characters thought to plop a Dispel on these guys I would simply rule it as a save-or-die effect for these creatures and congratulate my players on their creativity.

Fluff
The fluff for these monsters is annoyingly dungeon-y. Animated Armours and Rugs of Smothering transparently exist to occupy dungeons. The text for the Animated Armour mentions riddles and other challenges (the pragmatic player would much rather blow up a CR1 monster than be bothered with riddles, in my experience).

As an alternative to 'made by a wizard', I like the idea that these things spontaneously generate in areas of high magic, like the Feywild or a Wizard's tower. It might actually be some kind of annoyance to the Wizard that his antique, decorative armour keeps wandering about or his carpets are getting bolshie!

Hooks
All the furniture in a Wizard's tower has animated. Not only that, it has unionised - it wants fair pay, time off, healthcare benefits with a reputable carpenter. The Wizard is at his wit's end when he asks the PC's aid...

The armour of Ogrid IV has been in his family for generations. When he donned it, he was surpised to find someone had animated it - and now he wanders his castle, trapped inside, lashing out at his terrified, coronation guests, just as your players arrive...


Next time: The Ankheg.

[Naanomi]

Good uses for animated stuff:
-convey a sense of casual magic: yes a highly-level wizard lives here; wow those ancient elves used magic everywhere; just how rich is this merchant that he can afford all this magic stuff?
-create paranoia: that rug attacked us and this whole castle had rugs... (Golems and mimics often also serve this role)
-as mindless 'no moral problem with killing them' minions, like undead but without the inherently evil vibe
-use their 'robotic thinking' in puzzles (the animated swords only attack when we touch the floor in that room so what if we rig a rope...)

'Golem-lite' have seen lots of use in my home game, but mostly because one of the big nations is defined by its casual golem use

[DireSickFish]

I used them in an ancient mansion the players had uncovered. I like them because they are a good challenge for a low level party and could have survived an indeterminate amount of time being buried away. They fill a similar role to Golems but at a lower level.

If you want to spice it up you can also use the Animated Objects from the spell Animate Objects. The only thing to do is figure out what CR they would be.

In the given fluff they are all mindless but it would be trivial to have them be the souls of caretakers to the former estate trying to uphold there duties still.

[Shining Wrath]

Wait... Are you arguing the party shouldn't be able to dodge or that the bird men shouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of hitting them? Because you've just made the strategy seem terrible.

Both. The chance of a hit is pretty random, but the ability to guess where it's going to land and move away is also pretty random.

If the party scatters the chance of hitting one member is probably low. But that might cause other problems. Aararocka strategy for a group might be to start of with bombing, force the party to scatter, then swoop down on one victim at a time. If they don't scatter, continue bombing.

Chance of a hit might be N%, where N is the number of party members within 20' of a targeted point.

[Ralanr]

Personally I love animated armor. From experience it's AC and damage is a bit high for a level 1 encounter (party of 3, my character almost got killed). But it's something I would just love to use in any scenario.

[Shining Wrath]

Animated objects also have a long fantasy tradition; when the Great Magical Event took place, the very furnishings gained a form of life. This can be amusingly Disneyesque as in Beauty and the Beast or as dark as the Fritz Leiber story where the "protagonist's" anger suffused everything around him, so that his typewriter keys started attacking him as he tried to write, the band-aids attempted to smother him, and so on. I think Stephen King did a short about that idea, too.

So in addition to "a wizard did it!" and "there's just a whole lot of free-floating magic here", you can add Animated Objects as a sort of special no-turn undead; the overwhelming rage / anger / sadness / love / lust / loneliness of the former inhabitant manifests itself through the furnishings of the place.

They are amusingly cheesy in my opinion, and certainly no more "This exists for players to kill it!" than oozes and Dire Wombats.

[Ralanr]

Animated objects also have a long fantasy tradition; when the Great Magical Event took place, the very furnishings gained a form of life. This can be amusingly Disneyesque as in Beauty and the Beast or as dark as the Fritz Leiber story where the "protagonist's" anger suffused everything around him, so that his typewriter keys started attacking him as he tried to write, the band-aids attempted to smother him, and so on. I think Stephen King did a short about that idea, too.

So in addition to "a wizard did it!" and "there's just a whole lot of free-floating magic here", you can add Animated Objects as a sort of special no-turn undead; the overwhelming rage / anger / sadness / love / lust / loneliness of the former inhabitant manifests itself through the furnishings of the place.

They are amusingly cheesy in my opinion, and certainly no more "This exists for players to kill it!" than oozes and Dire Wombats.

I'm saddened by the lack of dire animals in 5e.

I want a dire chicken. Then I want a restaurant chain centered around deep fried dire chickens.

[Forum Explorer]

Animated objects aren't that bad. A nice little plot hook? Trying to secure/destroy an ancient vault in which an army of animated armors stand ready to serve.

[Nifft]

I'm saddened by the lack of dire animals in 5e.

I want a dire chicken. Then I want a restaurant chain centered around deep fried dire chickens. But then you'd risk seeing a Dire Commoner with the Dire Chicken Infested flaw.



The ability to Dispel these enemies, or use Antimagic to disrupt them adds another element to the combat, but with 5e's philosophy of rulings over rules I don't think I needed it explaining to me what the effect would be - if the characters thought to plop a Dispel on these guys I would simply rule it as a save-or-die effect for these creatures and congratulate my players on their creativity. From past editions, dispel usually doesn't work on permanent monsters (e.g. the undead you get from animate dead can't be dispelled).

If you want the players to figure out that dispel is an option, maybe say something like... "As you enter the room, your thumbs prickle. The build up of magic seems like a very slow spell being cast, and the remaining magical aura is like a spell being maintained. You don't know what the spell does, though."

Then, later, the Animated Object attacks, and they have a clue that an Animated Object will behave like a spell, not a Golem.



As an alternative to 'made by a wizard', I like the idea that these things spontaneously generate in areas of high magic, like the Feywild or a Wizard's tower. It might actually be some kind of annoyance to the Wizard that his antique, decorative armour keeps wandering about or his carpets are getting bolshie!
That would be a great hook.

If only they could speak and use diplomacy.

[SharkForce]

But then you'd risk seeing a Dire Commoner with the Dire Chicken Infested flaw.

From past editions, dispel usually doesn't work on permanent monsters (e.g. the undead you get from animate dead can't be dispelled).

If you want the players to figure out that dispel is an option, maybe say something like... "As you enter the room, your thumbs prickle. The build up of magic seems like a very slow spell being cast, and the remaining magical aura is like a spell being maintained. You don't know what the spell does, though."

Then, later, the Animated Object attacks, and they have a clue that an Animated Object will behave like a spell, not a Golem.

That would be a great hook.

If only they could speak and use diplomacy.

this is 5e. scribble it in on the monster entry and they can.

[Nifft]

this is 5e. scribble it in on the monster entry and they can.

I'm making a reference to his earlier lament in the post which I quoted.

In effect, I'm agreeing with his criticism regarding Diplomacy.

There's no need to remind me of the edition, and indeed other editions also had DMs who were allowed to change stuff as well.

But thanks anyway... the reminder that DMs have power might help someone else, in the future.

[kaoskonfety]

Introduce animated objects that are not murdering the PC's. An animated broom sweeping, a suit of armor and an ax chopping and piling wood, buckets drawing water for the masters bath. And you have a towering pile of chopped wood blocking the entryway of a VERY clean dungeon which is flooded below the main floor. All the "traps" are various automations with a clear and reasonable purpose - which has long since passed. The environment created is dangerous, but not out of malice from the constructs or their creator, just from "too literal orders" syndrome.

"slaughter all animals brought into the slaughter house" doesn't trigger until an animal companion or work animal (or the shape changed druid) is brought in. "Confiscate all drawn weapons" is not on its own dangerous, but the PC's are likely to resist. "Prevent anyone not under guard escort from leaving the dungeons" could be interesting, especially if they are also to keep the 'prisoners' fed and protected - long rest anyone? Guess we should have kept the old guard uniform we found on that skeleton...

[Shining Wrath]

Introduce animated objects that are not murdering the PC's. An animated broom sweeping, a suit of armor and an ax chopping and piling wood, buckets drawing water for the masters bath. And you have a towering pile of chopped wood blocking the entryway of a VERY clean dungeon which is flooded below the main floor. All the "traps" are various automations with a clear and reasonable purpose - which has long since passed. The environment created is dangerous, but not out of malice from the constructs or their creator, just from "too literal orders" syndrome.

"slaughter all animals brought into the slaughter house" doesn't trigger until an animal companion or work animal (or the shape changed druid) is brought in. "Confiscate all drawn weapons" is not on its own dangerous, but the PC's are likely to resist. "Prevent anyone not under guard escort from leaving the dungeons" could be interesting, especially if they are also to keep the 'prisoners' fed and protected - long rest anyone? Guess we should have kept the old guard uniform we found on that skeleton...

Why am I hearing Paul Dukas as background music?

[kaoskonfety]

Why am I hearing Paul Dukas as background music?

well ya? that's kinda the source inspiration for the whole thing yes/no? and if it wasn't : it should have been.

[Shining Wrath]

well ya? that's kinda the source inspiration for the whole thing yes/no? and if it wasn't : it should have been.

Dukas was inspired by a Goethe poem, who probably drew on German folk tales.

[kaoskonfety]

Dukas was inspired by a Goethe poem, who probably drew on German folk tales.

Granted - but German folk tales didn't give us a sound track for the game we are suddenly all running in our heads.

[Trickquestion]

This is a very interesting thread and I look forward to following it.

As for animated objects, I concur with the posts just above me. I've used animated objects as a high magic setting's equivalent to robots. People with easy access to magic use them for all kinds of mundane work, and thus the danger of them comes from either their completely literal interpretation of orders they will never cease following or the fact that they're so mundane that they are completely below suspicion when foul play is being investigated.

[JenBurdoo]

I like this thread. Have not played 5E but this is clearly useful in other contexts. I look forward to what you think about humanoid (particularly PC-type) creatures and how to use them -- I'm racking my brains to find things to do with orcs other than invade, for example.

[Shining Wrath]

I like this thread. Have not played 5E but this is clearly useful in other contexts. I look forward to what you think about humanoid (particularly PC-type) creatures and how to use them -- I'm racking my brains to find things to do with orcs other than invade, for example.

Not invade - or not succeed when invading; overuse resources, create environmental catastrophe, population plummets, and you have a devastated region inhabited by a few cunning survivors, the best hunters and gatherers of the tribes.

[Ralanr]

Not invade - or not succeed when invading; overuse resources, create environmental catastrophe, population plummets, and you have a devastated region inhabited by a few cunning survivors, the best hunters and gatherers of the tribes.

I was thinking something similar. Twist it around so that the orcs are being invaded by the players. That'll put them on their toes.

[kaoskonfety]

I like this thread. Have not played 5E but this is clearly useful in other contexts. I look forward to what you think about humanoid (particularly PC-type) creatures and how to use them -- I'm racking my brains to find things to do with orcs other than invade, for example.

As the only bastion of civilization in an otherwise inhospitable region we can turn it into an interesting role reversal where the PC's of the 'civilized' races find themselves poorly treated by the natives - FAR better than Orcs would find themselves to be treated in Human or Elven lands, but very poorly.

'Local Guide' leaning on the old west and other sources for some "noble savage" up in the house.

Orcish civilization pre-dates human - the wars and raiding are not attacks, its rebellion/ guerilla war against the colonists/invaders who have displaced and marginalized them.

I could keep going but I'm noticing a trend that could be interpreted as RL political... but you get the idea. As soon as you take the alignment suggestions in the book with a small heap of salt, all of the intelligent monsters gain alot of interest. Insert a bit of historical "cultures collide" and a big slice of the game often writes itself.

[MrConsideration]

The Ankheg

The Ankheg is a pretty old beastie in D&D lore and I believe one of very few creatures without a mythological ancestor. It's a huge, acid-spitting bug with a strong hide that ambushes from the ground beneath. My only question is: does this fit a fantasy campaign? An Ankheg looks a little bit sci-fi to me, more Starship Troopers than Lord of the Rings. If your setting is a bit more gonzo the Ankheg might fit right in - but it might feel a bit self-conscious sitting beside dragons and unicorns.

Art
Great. It looks alien and monstrous - and it is bursting from the ground as its signature attack. There's a real sense of motion and intent - the eyes are pinned on the reader as it emerges, and the image is dominated by spikes and mandibles and teeth. It is obviously a monster, and the image communicates aggression. I like that it doesn't obviously resemble any insect, or hodge-podge of insects, that I can recognise.

Purpose and Tactics
Ankhegs are a great monster because they revolve around their central tactic so well - as a CR2 they're a great solo monster for your low-level party, ambushing from beneath using their burrow speed and Tremorsense. Their damage is quite hefty but their AC and HP is fairly low - presumably because your Ankheg should disappear after grappling a character, dragging itself down into the depths for another strike. It the Ankheg is a victim of focus-fire it will die very quickly - I'd bulk up the HP or the AC for an experienced or tactically gifted group.

If used at higher levels as a group, an Ankheg's ability to assault and subsequently grapple seperated characters is extremely dangerous - isolated spellcasters would be difficult to protect. The Ankheg is of animal intelligence, however, so your players might complain about its tactical brilliance! Any nsectile monsters work well in a group with the Ankheg or other creatures would easily have a symbiotic relationship with one.

One problem with the Ankheg is that players can ready actions if it is burrowing, and a barrage of readied ranged attacks has a fairly good chance of killing the poor thing in two or three rounds. There's nothing explicitly in the statblock to defend it from this tactic, or that rules that it ambushing from beneath actually surprises the victim, so it might need some DM fiat rulings to make it work. The fluff actually states that the burrowing is visible.

Conventional wisdom puts the Ankheg at the fringes of civilization as an early quest - "Farmer Grimnir's cows keep disappearing!" - but I think they have a lot of other situations in which Ankhegs are effective, flavourful monsters - a burrowing threat in conventional dungeons that comes at you from the very walls, and remakes the dungeon map as it attacks, exposing new areas to exploration, releasing new monsters or uncovering treaures long sealed away. There's the possibility of baiting, or leading, the Ankheg to demolish areas, or to unleash it on other low-level threats - what Kobold nest can survive having an Ankheg running loose? Consider loosing your Ankhegs in dungeons, mines cave networks, cliffsides - anywhere that restricts movement by foot gives the tunneling bug an extra edge.

Fluff
It's a low-level monster. Its fluff focuses on the fact that the Ankheg is a local menace that wanders about eating cattle and the occasional unlucky traveler. Nothing is really stated about origins or purpose, so you can feel free to slot the Ankheg pretty much anywhere as a predator, and you can refluff as appropriate - is it a normal insect that has been exposed to magic and thus mutated? A creature of the desert wastes, a complete mystery as noone has lived to see one? It's up to you - you have the exoskeleton and that's all. In my personal campaign world, Ankhegs are resident in the steppes, and follow the huge herds of migratory animals - and pastoral cultures - in packs, devouring herd animals when they get the chance. The peoples of the steppes make extensive use of Ankheg armour, and will often challenge themselves to a form of counting coup where Ankhegs are tempted into an area and then repeatedly dodged, prestige being won by those ballsy enough to touch an Ankheg with their bare palm.

As with many monsters, I think this one is largely about presentation. If you tell your players "There's an Ankheg in Farmer Grimnir's fields", they'll yawn, strap on their breast-plate and eviscerate it. If you tell your players "the village of Hosht has been terrorised for weeks - every night, animals disappear. Even from within the stables! The ground is churned and all that remains is bloody viscera and mud - as thought they were pulled down into Hell itself! They say anyone who can end the Beast of Hosht will earn his weight silver!" With an ambush monster like this, tension is everything in making a memorable encounter for your players.

Hooks

Ankhegs are not native to this region, yet they are starting to press in as an invasive species, muscling out local wildlife and settlers alike with their aggression. How do your players respond?

Behind the great moving people of Khagan Qasadimih roam a pack of Ankheg of unusual size and speed. Any warrior who can slay the great bull Ankheg who leads this pack may dine with the Khagan that night as a reward for his valour.

Your players cleared out this fortress, or dungeon, or keep. When they return, they find something has been burrowing in the depths, and believes that this is its lair now.

Verdict: Scary and strange. A great low CR monster which you can keep using for quite a few levels.

Next time: the Azer!

[Shining Wrath]

I think Ankhegs are great terror weapons for wood elves or anyone else with the necessary patience.

You want to "invade" the human farmlands to reclaim territory that was once elven forest? Don't march over and give the king's army something to fight. Just sneak out at night and sow ankheg eggs in farmer's fields. Bullettes, too, but today we speak of ankhegs.

Slowly but surely the short-lived humans will abandon their farms, and as the farms return to forest the towns and cities will become less and less sustainable.

Aside from that, they are great low-level random encounters as the party travels in "safe" areas.

[SharkForce]

i'm a bit disappointed to see that ankheg plate is not a thing in this edition. it doesn't even have to be particularly great, i'd just like it to be there at all, even if only as a vague description (like being able to make half plate that weighs a bit less or something).

[MrConsideration]

It would also allow for a Druid to wear heavy armour if they gained proficiency via a feat or multiclass.

[Naanomi]

Ankhegs as a setting piece are useful to explain where a tunnel system came from.

'Everyone knew Ankhegs had nests out east of the old orchard, but they were easy to drive back. But now that goblin bandits have moved into those tunnels...'

On their own they make a good ambush threat, are players carefully scouting everywhere? Not beneath their own feet!

[DireSickFish]

The burrow is nice on the Anhkeg because it gets around the problem of PC's just sniping things from far away in big open places like the desert. Just BOOM now your being eaten alive and ohmygod why do they have acid pincers aaah aaah.

They are just a mindless menace and a monster. This makes them easy to throw in anywhere without any moral quandaries.

[mephnick]

I use Anhkegs all the time. For bonus fun, have them attack in an underground tunnel so the players have to watch all directions!

[VoxRationis]

In my personal campaign world, Ankhegs are resident in the steppes, and follow the huge herds of migratory animals - and pastoral cultures - in packs, devouring herd animals when they get the chance. The peoples of the steppes make extensive use of Ankheg armour, and will often challenge themselves to a form of counting coup where Ankhegs are tempted into an area and then repeatedly dodged, prestige being won by those ballsy enough to touch an Ankheg with their bare palm.


Out of curiosity, why would a burrowing animal be migratory? When I think of animals that travel long distances over steppe and grassland, animals that spring to mind generally don't dig extensive tunnel networks.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I'm saddened by the lack of dire animals in 5e.
I want a dire chicken. Then I want a restaurant chain centered around deep fried dire chickens.
They just changed the name to 'giant', there's a few of them in the back of the Monster Manual, like Giant Hyenas. Change it back to Dire if you want.

[MrConsideration]

Out of curiosity, why would a burrowing animal be migratory? When I think of animals that travel long distances over steppe and grassland, animals that spring to mind generally don't dig extensive tunnel networks.

That is a very good point, especially as Ankheg's burrowing is fairly slow 10"). Maybe they travel overland and only burrow to attack? Or maybe they simply wait in certain places to ambush herds like crocodiles do during migrations?

[Sindeloke]

They just changed the name to 'giant', there's a few of them in the back of the Monster Manual, like Giant Hyenas. Change it back to Dire if you want.

But those aren't the same thing at all! A giant porcupine is just a porcupine that's four feet long. It eats bugs and frogs and idk nuts or whatever it is porcupines eat, just in greater quantities. It has a cute little face and its quills are all twisted up hair. A dire porcupine is a Paleolithic hellbeast with tusks and weird bony protrusions over its eyes and razor-sharp bone quills that it can shoot ten yards with lethal precision, and it will roll up onto your farm, slaughter your pigs and eat your cattle until some adventurer drives it off.

Arthropods, of course, are already Paleolithic hellbeasts, and therefore only need to be giant to be terrifying.

[MrConsideration]

Azer
I have to admit, every time I flicked through my Manual I have completely ignored the Azer. "A Dwarf with its head on fire? Dumb." Having read other the fluff and stat-block, they're actually really growing on me as a concept. They're able to fit into your standard cosmology easily, but I think you could also use them as replacement Dwarves entirely. They could easily play a number of roles in any campaign, and open up a low-level opponent for exploration of the outer planes or high-magic regions. As 'azer' means fire in several Turkic languages (notably Azerbaijani!) I wonder if there is a mythological inspiration for this creature?

Art
Excellent - the fire is well executed and I think the bronze effect is really well executed. The Azer is squat and powerful and aggressive - the facial expression is pure rage(can Azer, being made of bronze, change their expression?). This is obviously a talented artist at work!

Purpose and Tactics
At CR2 the Azer is a melee terror. It has a damaging aura if your PCs get close enough to hit it and it has solid defences and damage. It has the obvious immunities for it's type, too, but your PCs are unlikely to be thick enough to throw a fireball at these characters. This is an encounter that would really challenge a melee heavy party, especially if you force the combat in an enclosed area or use environmental effects (superheated steam vents, magma, stalagmites) to constrain your player's ability to maneuver. In an invasion of their mountain homes Azer would be a fearsome threat - stacking free aura damage whilst crushing enemies with their warhammers. Fire-resistance is fairly common, and Azer have little they can do against crowd-control effects, however, so a well-prepared party with caster support will flatten them. At higher levels, pairing the Azer with spellcasters - including Efreeti, who possess Azer slaves in the flavour text, will help them overcome this weakness.

The Azer could function in your campaign in numerous ways. They could function as quest-givers, especially with their built-in rivalry with the Efreeti. They could offer services to players which require dangerous journeys to achieve: crafting magical weapons and armours for your players after a lengthy expedition and numerous favours. They could guard some treasure or maguffin your players need. Being Lawful and mercantile they seem easy enough to engage in diplomacy, so your players will have numerous means of dealing with an Azer group.

Fluff
Azer are constructed, and presumably construct their children, too, which makes them suitably alien, and opens them up to different versions of the same - could the Azer not construct specialist units for different purposes and in combat? A kind of family golemancy? How do they see this process? Are they expansionist - an untiring machine race that seeks to cover the world? Or are they content to perfect their craftmanship in their homes? There are numerous things that can be built out of this information - exactly how a Monster Manual entry should work!
They have their own kingdom, which they zealously defend, but you could easily rip that out of the Elemental Plane of Fire and plonk it anywhere in their setting, possibly underground. All in all, there is just enough information to use whilst giving you enough freedom to put the Azer anywhere you like.

The 'escaped slaves' aspect is a bit overdone, as it is an identical story to the Githzerai/yanki and the Dwarves. I think a different origin story is necessary. Maybe the very first Azer doesn't know how they came about, yet has to direct the new species as a sort of ignorant philosopher-king. Maybe he argues the Azer built themselves.

Hooks
Your players want to get shiny magic weapons and other magical gubbins. Only the Azer can build what they require, but they must first cross the elemental plane of fire...

Across the planes and the Astral Sea, they come. Silent, burning machines, slaughtering all they find, strip-mining every morsel of minerals to build more of their own. Who can stop the inexorable march of the Azer?

In the City of Brass, your players come across an Azer slave. He begs them to help him escape his torment at the hands of the Pasha.

An Azer family want you to find a gem of singular magnificence to serve as the heart of the child they want to construct.

Verdict: A lovely intersection of mythologically resonant and original; the Azer are very D&D.

[Sindeloke]

I find it irritating, arbitrary, and entirely unlikely that Azer are all male. It does allow for a mildly mythical Galatea/Bride of Frankenstein thing if you want to go the "first female Azer!" plot hook, but on the whole I would vastly prefer to simply say they're either aromantic, asexual gendered golem types and strip out the hypermasculinity of the beards and Greek god muscles, or say they're every bit as likely to build themselves daughters as sons.

I believe in earlier editions they were the male half of an elemental species with two entries in the MM, but I don't remember who the women were. That'd also be more palatable, and could lead to some "where are the Entwives" quests.

[Nifft]

I believe in earlier editions they were the male half of an elemental species with two entries in the MM, but I don't remember who the women were. That'd also be more palatable, and could lead to some "where are the Entwives" quests. In 1e, they were just regular humanoids who had males and females.


http://i.imgur.com/wsvQK1m.png


I kinda like the 5e Construct angle, but yeah, it'd be nice if they were more like Warforged in regard to gender choices: i.e. you don't actually reproduce in any gender-related way, but you can pick either (or none) if you want.

[MrConsideration]

Aye, if you build your children you don't need to have sexes. Or maybe you have about twenty sexes, each of whom contributes another aspect of their child on a huge reproductive conveyor belt.

Gender-identity is fluid largely because noone can keep track. :smallsmile:

[Nifft]

Aye, if you build your children you don't need to have sexes. Or maybe you have about twenty sexes, each of whom contributes another aspect of their child on a huge reproductive conveyor belt.

"Grab my nuts, you dirty wrench."

Other jokes in the queue:
- screwing
- hammering
- being on fire cures headaches

[JackPhoenix]

In 3.5 Eberron game, I've used a plot where House Vadalis sold tiny magebred Ankhegs to farmers to help deal with pests and to aerate the soil with their tunnels (I think that was mentioned in the MM as a beneficial side effect of their presence, but tiny version is obviously less destructive to the crops). But then, for unknown reasons, some of them started to grow back to the original size. Vadalis sold a lot of those buggers...can the players find what's going on and stop it before the whole country is overrun with horse sized, acid spitting, burrowing insectoids?

[Ralanr]

I find it odd that Azer could be rivals to Efreeti. Mainly because of their differences in CR. I can't imagine the Efreeti not conquering them.

[JackPhoenix]

The answer is right in the Azer's fluff: if the Efreeti try to conquer the Azers, Azers will reveal secrets of City of Brass to everyone. And if they do it first, there won't be anything stopping Efreeti from invading...Azers are blackmailing them to keep their war cold (as far as that's possible on Elemental Plane of Fire)

[Ralanr]

The answer is right in the Azer's fluff: if the Efreeti try to conquer the Azers, Azers will reveal secrets of City of Brass to everyone. And if they do it first, there won't be anything stopping Efreeti from invading...Azers are blackmailing them to keep their war cold (as far as that's possible on Elemental Plane of Fire)

Ahh. I need to reread that. I assumed that was ancient history.

[DireSickFish]

I find it odd that Azer could be rivals to Efreeti. Mainly because of their differences in CR. I can't imagine the Efreeti not conquering them.

It's also possibly a difference in numbers. I have a hard time imagining an individual Efreeti forming a ranks of 20 soldiers deep to go fight the Azer. They all seems like rulers or generals and use lesser races as armies and fodder. So while an Azer army consists of a bunch of Azer stat blocks and all an Efreeti army has Azer, Salamanders, Fire elementals, magmins, and possibly conscripts from the material plane.

That's just personal opinion and not supported by any fluff. Azer as good builder also probably have solid defenses in place for when the Efreeti come a calling.

[Naanomi]

If nothing else. azer can be used as another fire monster in a fire themed classic dungeon (presumably with an efreet waiting at the bottom)

[Forum Explorer]

Azer (and all of the elemental races) have always posed a problem in that they are on a different plane of existence. Particularly the Elemental Planes, which I've usually run as incredibly dangerous to end up on without some serious prep. That, and there is so much stuff going on in prime that they never get around to getting there in the first place.

[mephnick]

I always mean to send the party to different planes, but never get around to it.

Although my current group had a chance to go to Pandemonium and they all decided it seemed like a horrible idea and turned around. I mean, they probably would have died, so I suppose they were right.

[DireSickFish]

I always mean to send the party to different planes, but never get around to it.

Although my current group had a chance to go to Pandemonium and they all decided it seemed like a horrible idea and turned around. I mean, they probably would have died, so I suppose they were right.

It's a damn shame when your players don't take the rope you're giving them to hang themselves.

I like planar stuff happening so run a lot of plots where elementals get brought to the prime for one reason or anther. Having the largest variety of monsters means the fire plane gets tapped into the most. Well except maybe demons/devils. Those are a hoot.

[Brendanicus]

MrConsideratin, you did a great job on the Azer post, but you missed one aspect of them I was very excited to hear about, the fact that Azers can be the ultimate Tucker's Kobolds. (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/)

They are the best non-divine crafters in the multiverse, are terrified of invasion, and keep to themselves. Also, their species is built, not born, so even the least among them must know how to build things. Also, they clearly know how to make great traps and secret passageways, as The City of Brass is apparently so filled with such things that such knowledge being known terrifies the Efreet.

Imagine having to breech an entirely metal city where the zealous defenders don't need to eat, drink or sleep, are probably all armed with magic weapons, have more traps per square inch than you could imagine, is filled with magical wards capable of keeping genies out, and everything is either on fire or steampunk. That's what attacking an Azer fortress is like.

[MrConsideration]

I have to agree. I've never been to another plane as a player or DM'd travel to other planes. I always find my players are too engrossed with hooks on the Prime Material, and their aims and ambitions are all on the Prime Material - they're Prime Material girls livin' in a Prime Material world.

I also find the idea of traveling around the Elemental Plane of Fire a bit difficult to imagine - isn't it all on fire? Can you walk there at all? Do you need some kind of fire-proof suit? Is there even any oxygen to breathe or is it all being consumed by the fire all around?

I love your interpretation, Brendanicus. The Clockwork Fortress of the Azer could be a great module.

[Envyus]

Quick correction. The Azer's were never slaves in backstory (Though of course some have been captured and made slaves in the skirmishes the two have.). It remarks that they were allied with the Efreet and therefore on equal standing. They helped the Efreet create the City of Brass one of the most wondrous places in creation. The Efreet decided to be jerks and decided to they wanted to use the Azer's as slaves so they could use their talents as they pleased and protect the secrets of the city. The Azer's were strong enough to fight the Efreet off and remain free. Causing their rivalry and cold war.

So it's not really like the Gith who were the Mind Flayers slaves for untold generations before breaking free. The Azer's were allies and friends of the Efreet who were betrayed. And now they are rivals.




I also find the idea of traveling around the Elemental Plane of Fire a bit difficult to imagine - isn't it all on fire? Can you walk there at all? Do you need some kind of fire-proof suit? Is there even any oxygen to breathe or is it all being consumed by the fire all around?.

The DMG answers how the Elemental Planes work.

Here is a nice piece of art of the Inner planes.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ABvu2DhninM/VIM6ZyJEbRI/AAAAAAAAFi8/Ybx1_4wi4Ck/w1008-h728/ElementalPlanes_Small.jpg

Pretty much there are 3 sections to the Elemental Planes. The boarder Elemental Planes were the plane resembles the Material Plane dominated by one of the elements. (This map is of the Boarder Elemental Planes.) Then as you go father and farther into the plane you reach. the Inner Elemental Planes which normal creatures can't survive in as it pretty much becomes purely that element. If you go farther into the Inner Elemental planes you eventually reach the Elemental Chaos were the Elemental Planes start mixing together at random.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

Dwarf Fortress where you don't have to keep your dwarves supplied with food and booze, they won't go take nap in the middle of a battle and they are immune to poison and burning despite being already on fire? Sounds like !!!Fun!!!

[Corey]

Animated objects also have a long fantasy tradition; when the Great Magical Event took place, the very furnishings gained a form of life. This can be amusingly Disneyesque as in Beauty and the Beast or as dark as the Fritz Leiber story where the "protagonist's" anger suffused everything around him, so that his typewriter keys started attacking him as he tried to write, the band-aids attempted to smother him, and so on. I think Stephen King did a short about that idea, too.

So in addition to "a wizard did it!" and "there's just a whole lot of free-floating magic here", you can add Animated Objects as a sort of special no-turn undead; the overwhelming rage / anger / sadness / love / lust / loneliness of the former inhabitant manifests itself through the furnishings of the place.

They are amusingly cheesy in my opinion, and certainly no more "This exists for players to kill it!" than oozes and Dire Wombats.

John Varley's "Press Enter" is at the dark end of the tradition, although it's specifically about electronic devices. http://www.amazon.com/Press-Enter-Science-Fiction-Collection/dp/1568652798 I briefly misremembered the author as Jack Vance, which would have made for a cooler reference.

It might actually make for an interesting campaign plot, although you'd have to come up with a way for the PCs to win.

[MrConsideration]

The Banshee

The Banshee is another creature with an obvious mythological basis and instant recognition. This can be great as most of the encounter writes itself in your player’s heads, but also demeaning because players instantly know how to respond.

The Banshee seems to be best used as a quest-based monster – a random encounter with a banshee will feel cheap and lack the appropriate gravitas (especially as it has a fair chance of striking lucky and murdering an entire party in a single move – more on that later). Encountering a Banshee is a quest, and should lead to social encounters or investigations that uncover the history of the spirit.

Art
I really like the art for the Banshee. It looks appropriately ethereal whilst still having some kind of definition, and manages to look furious and haunted all at once. The sense of motion is also quite an achievement, as the Banshee is clearly emerging from some desolate place.

Purpose and Tactics
Running a Banshee tactically seems silly – it is a tormented spirit, and is probably fairly disinterested in throwing down with some grubby murderhobos. I would ensure a Banshee’s damage is always incidental, not tactical.

In battle the Banshee takes a punt on an insta-kill move. A very unlucky party could be TPK’d by this, and said party will probably throw the dice at you if this happens. Combining this with the automatic fear ability could scatter your players long enough for death saving throws to be made and possibly failed. The chance of this is fairly low, however, and once all players have made saves, the Banshee functions as something of a tank – low hit-points are offset by a fairly massive list of immunities and resistances, pinging away at your players with a fairly weak melee attack whilst they wear it’s HP down. This will probably make for a fairly boring fight – everything is decided by the results of the Wail/Horrifying Visage combo at the outset, followed by a slog. I’ve always felt the D&D approach to ghosts to be completely absurd: you respond to hauntings by beating a ghost to death. This implies Ghosts are sufficiently alive to be ‘killed’ again, and it completely undermines the point of Ghosts – to function as a story monster. At the risk of tooting my own warhorn, I did write a blog post on exorcisms and hauntings for 5e which you could easily adapt to fighting the Banshee here (http://thelastdaydawned.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/rules-for-haunting-possession-and.html). Any decent DM would make dealing with a Banshee a quest to salve whatever lead to its creation or simply banishing it somehow – not relying on your +1 swords and Magic Missile to make it even deader.

An intelligent party who knows they’re facing a Banshee can easily nullify its main ability with a variety of spells like Heroism or Protection from Evil, which will make this fight completely trivial for a fourth-level party. There are no rules to this effect, but Silence or Deafness should presumably protect you against the Wail – both spells a fourth-level party should have easy access to. Whilst springing a Banshee on party unawares seems unfair, a prepared party should have no trouble kicking her teeth in. I also find it bizarre that if you stand 31 feet away and can still hear the Wail you are completely unharmed, yet someone stood a foot in front of you could literally keel over dead – I’d rule that the Wail affects creatures in earshot. Perhaps a tell-tale sign of a Banshee’s haunt would be that everything is dead? Birds fallen from the sky, grass turned brown and inert, herd animals lying dead without a wound on them.

Fluff

The origin story seems a bit vague, but there’s an obvious Gothic ancestor somewhere in there – Banshees are Elves that squandered their beauty. How exactly you squander beauty, I don’t know – maybe all attractive Elves are obligated to become supermodels in order to hold back the Banshee threat. This seems like it would cause dire economic consequences for Elvenkind, and perhaps explains why their development is so slow in comparison to humans. Banshees apparently used their beauty to ‘corrupt and control’ others, which is something straight from an MRA forum. There’s an element of the Virgin Madonna in the Banshee which I don’t really like.*

I’d chuck out the origin story but retain other aspects – the fact the curse starts to occur in life is a brilliant quest hook. The hoarding of beautiful objects helps make the lair a distinctive environment whilst giving you an excuse to chuck a load of art object treasure in there. I’d go closer to the mythology for an origin. Perhaps the Banshee is a curse suffered by silenced women, whose rage and desire to be heard can only emerge after death. Perhaps the Banshee is a seer or prophetess whose warnings were not heeded in life. Perhaps they are scorned women whose rage could find no outlet in mortal life. In all likelihood, your players will only ever counter one Banshee so you can freely call it the Screaming Ghost of Neverwinter and treat it as a wholly unique phenomenon with a personalised origin story.

Hooks

An Elven Noble of some means has grown listless and apathetic to life. She has been told that should she die, she will rise as a Banshee and torment the living. Eager to avoid this fate she seeks adventurers to find a cure or means of containment….or to end her misery if all else fails.

An art critic desires a specific lost work by an Old Master which no one has seen in a generation. Where will the trail for this masterpiece lead?

At the river where the locals once washed their clothing there is now a region of desolation, called only The Stillness. Nothing there lives, and none who venture there return. Can your players uncover the mystery and restore The Stillness to life?



Verdict: Great monster, too tied to D&D logic to perform well.

*The feminist theory, not to be confused with Like a Virgin, the Madonna single from 1984, which I actually really like.

[VoxRationis]

I’ve always felt the D&D approach to ghosts to be completely absurd: you respond to hauntings by beating a ghost to death. This implies Ghosts are sufficiently alive to be ‘killed’ again, and it completely undermines the point of Ghosts – to function as a story monster. At the risk of tooting my own warhorn, I did write a blog post on exorcisms and hauntings for 5e which you could easily adapt to fighting the Banshee here (http://thelastdaydawned.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/rules-for-haunting-possession-and.html). Any decent DM would make dealing with a Banshee a quest to salve whatever lead to its creation or simply banishing it somehow – not relying on your +1 swords and Magic Missile to make it even deader.


3.5 ghosts, at least, are only slain permanently if the reason for their existence is dealt with. I can't remember the rules about 5e ghosts and banshees—my group just got the MM a bit ago—but I don't think +1 swords are ever meant to be a permanent solution. Fighting it just gives you breathing room in order to contend with the core issue—or perhaps time to leave the dungeon and throw rocks at your DM for putting you up against incorporeal undead (although those are a lot easier this edition than previously).

[JackPhoenix]

I think the Banshee fluffy origin is inspired by Dragonlance. I'm not sure about the specifics (Dragonlance isn't my favorite setting, but I've read a lot of DL novels), but apparently, there was a group of beautiful female elves who convinced lord Soth (still alive then) that his wife was unfaithful to him and turned him away from his mission to warn priest-king that the gods doesn't approve of his action, leading to Soth killing his wife and getting cursed to be a Death Knight, the elves turned into undead spirits (banshees), and gods dropping a huge meteor to Krynn, destroying Isthar and turning away from mortals for some time.

[Shining Wrath]

The 5e Banshee fluff is silly. I'd go with a CE female elf and leave it at that.

[Forum Explorer]

The Banshee

The Banshee is another creature with an obvious mythological basis and instant recognition. This can be great as most of the encounter writes itself in your player’s heads, but also demeaning because players instantly know how to respond.

The Banshee seems to be best used as a quest-based monster – a random encounter with a banshee will feel cheap and lack the appropriate gravitas (especially as it has a fair chance of striking lucky and murdering an entire party in a single move – more on that later). Encountering a Banshee is a quest, and should lead to social encounters or investigations that uncover the history of the spirit.

Art
I really like the art for the Banshee. It looks appropriately ethereal whilst still having some kind of definition, and manages to look furious and haunted all at once. The sense of motion is also quite an achievement, as the Banshee is clearly emerging from some desolate place.

Purpose and Tactics
Running a Banshee tactically seems silly – it is a tormented spirit, and is probably fairly disinterested in throwing down with some grubby murderhobos. I would ensure a Banshee’s damage is always incidental, not tactical.

In battle the Banshee takes a punt on an insta-kill move. A very unlucky party could be TPK’d by this, and said party will probably throw the dice at you if this happens. Combining this with the automatic fear ability could scatter your players long enough for death saving throws to be made and possibly failed. The chance of this is fairly low, however, and once all players have made saves, the Banshee functions as something of a tank – low hit-points are offset by a fairly massive list of immunities and resistances, pinging away at your players with a fairly weak melee attack whilst they wear it’s HP down. This will probably make for a fairly boring fight – everything is decided by the results of the Wail/Horrifying Visage combo at the outset, followed by a slog. I’ve always felt the D&D approach to ghosts to be completely absurd: you respond to hauntings by beating a ghost to death. This implies Ghosts are sufficiently alive to be ‘killed’ again, and it completely undermines the point of Ghosts – to function as a story monster. At the risk of tooting my own warhorn, I did write a blog post on exorcisms and hauntings for 5e which you could easily adapt to fighting the Banshee here (http://thelastdaydawned.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/rules-for-haunting-possession-and.html). Any decent DM would make dealing with a Banshee a quest to salve whatever lead to its creation or simply banishing it somehow – not relying on your +1 swords and Magic Missile to make it even deader.

An intelligent party who knows they’re facing a Banshee can easily nullify its main ability with a variety of spells like Heroism or Protection from Evil, which will make this fight completely trivial for a fourth-level party. There are no rules to this effect, but Silence or Deafness should presumably protect you against the Wail – both spells a fourth-level party should have easy access to. Whilst springing a Banshee on party unawares seems unfair, a prepared party should have no trouble kicking her teeth in. I also find it bizarre that if you stand 31 feet away and can still hear the Wail you are completely unharmed, yet someone stood a foot in front of you could literally keel over dead – I’d rule that the Wail affects creatures in earshot. Perhaps a tell-tale sign of a Banshee’s haunt would be that everything is dead? Birds fallen from the sky, grass turned brown and inert, herd animals lying dead without a wound on them.

Fluff

The origin story seems a bit vague, but there’s an obvious Gothic ancestor somewhere in there – Banshees are Elves that squandered their beauty. How exactly you squander beauty, I don’t know – maybe all attractive Elves are obligated to become supermodels in order to hold back the Banshee threat. This seems like it would cause dire economic consequences for Elvenkind, and perhaps explains why their development is so slow in comparison to humans. Banshees apparently used their beauty to ‘corrupt and control’ others, which is something straight from an MRA forum. There’s an element of the Virgin Madonna in the Banshee which I don’t really like.*

I’d chuck out the origin story but retain other aspects – the fact the curse starts to occur in life is a brilliant quest hook. The hoarding of beautiful objects helps make the lair a distinctive environment whilst giving you an excuse to chuck a load of art object treasure in there. I’d go closer to the mythology for an origin. Perhaps the Banshee is a curse suffered by silenced women, whose rage and desire to be heard can only emerge after death. Perhaps the Banshee is a seer or prophetess whose warnings were not heeded in life. Perhaps they are scorned women whose rage could find no outlet in mortal life. In all likelihood, your players will only ever counter one Banshee so you can freely call it the Screaming Ghost of Neverwinter and treat it as a wholly unique phenomenon with a personalised origin story.

Hooks

An Elven Noble of some means has grown listless and apathetic to life. She has been told that should she die, she will rise as a Banshee and torment the living. Eager to avoid this fate she seeks adventurers to find a cure or means of containment….or to end her misery if all else fails.

An art critic desires a specific lost work by an Old Master which no one has seen in a generation. Where will the trail for this masterpiece lead?

At the river where the locals once washed their clothing there is now a region of desolation, called only The Stillness. Nothing there lives, and none who venture there return. Can your players uncover the mystery and restore The Stillness to life?



Verdict: Great monster, too tied to D&D logic to perform well.

*The feminist theory, not to be confused with Like a Virgin, the Madonna single from 1984, which I actually really like.

I don't really like the fluff that banshees got. I like the old Irish myths about them basically being a supernatural warning system to a family line, and I'd adapt that to turn them into supernatural bodyguards who protect their family with their existence, but cannot be forever destroyed until the family line is. Which leads to a really nasty fight with a Necromancer with his Banshee guardian. But the guardian can be removed by eliminating his poor old mother who is living a simple life in the country (still have to fight a Banshee either way though)



I think the Banshee fluffy origin is inspired by Dragonlance. I'm not sure about the specifics (Dragonlance isn't my favorite setting, but I've read a lot of DL novels), but apparently, there was a group of beautiful female elves who convinced lord Soth (still alive then) that his wife was unfaithful to him and turned him away from his mission to warn priest-king that the gods doesn't approve of his action, leading to Soth killing his wife and getting cursed to be a Death Knight, the elves turned into undead spirits (banshees), and gods dropping a huge meteor to Krynn, destroying Isthar and turning away from mortals for some time.

Or this fluff. Banshees are cursed by god(s) for the crime they committed. And thus there is a bunch of variants on the curse, like making them guardians, or forcing them to perform certain actions, or allowing it to be bypassed with a charm from the god in question.

[JoeJ]

I think the Banshee fluffy origin is inspired by Dragonlance. I'm not sure about the specifics (Dragonlance isn't my favorite setting, but I've read a lot of DL novels), but apparently, there was a group of beautiful female elves who convinced lord Soth (still alive then) that his wife was unfaithful to him and turned him away from his mission to warn priest-king that the gods doesn't approve of his action, leading to Soth killing his wife and getting cursed to be a Death Knight, the elves turned into undead spirits (banshees), and gods dropping a huge meteor to Krynn, destroying Isthar and turning away from mortals for some time.

I don't know much about Dragonlance. In the 1e MM a banshee, also called a groaning spirit, is the spirit of an evil female elf. It doesn't specify whether all evil female elves become banshees or just some of them, however. I greatly prefer the real world folklore version personally, and that's what I would use in my world.

[Ralanr]

Fluff: All elves are beautiful and if the women don't use their beauty for good they'll become a banshee!

That's what I got out of it. That's pretty stupid/sexist if you ask me. All elves are beautiful? There's no such thing as an elf with bad teeth? How about an overbite? Or just being really fat.

WHERE ARE THE FAT ELVES?!

[KorvinStarmast]

WHERE ARE THE FAT ELVES?!
0. Maybe that's where dwarfs actually originated. (Oh dear, all of those +3 dwarven throwers coming my way .... what's going on here? ) :smallbiggrin:
1. Elves are not human.
2. When you mostly exist in longtime (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258370-So-You-Want-To-Play-An-Elf-%283-5-Fluff%29), perhaps you don't overeat.

About Banshees ...

The original inclusion of Banshees was a slight twist on the legendary creature from Irish folklore, whose wail was an omen that someone would soon die.

is a female spirit in Irish mythology, usually seen as an omen of death and a messenger from another world. In legend, a banshee is a fairy woman who begins to wail if someone is about to die. D&D twisted that to "when she wails, someone will die ... if they don't save versus death" so while technically correct, first wail, then die, the banshee's agency in death is an add on to make the game creature dangerous.

Banshee as monster predates Dragonlance, JackPhoenix. From 1e MM page 50 a few points ...


ARMOR CLASS: 0 ... NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 ... DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8 ... SPECIAL DEFENSES + 1 or better ... MAGIC RESISTANCE: 50%
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional ... ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil

... the spirit of an evil female elf ... returns to harm the living. Note an evil female elf, not all female elves who die.
The groaning spirit can attack by its chilling touch, causing 1-8 hit points of damage/attack when it strikes. ... save versus magic or die on the spot ...

Fear spell ...

It can wail but once per day, and only during darkness.

Exorcism kills them.
Given the general predilection for D&D elves to trend toward neutral or good, the rareness of evil elves as formative stock for a banshee argues that this was a rare monster indeed.

I agree with those who see the Banshee as a quest monster: Mr Consideration's set ups are pretty good.

[JackPhoenix]

Well, there's 3.5's Mialee...

edit: I do realise that banshee's origin is older then DL (and D&D itself, of course), the first part of the Banshee's MM fluff (Divine Wrath) strongly reminded me of that bit of DL history. It wasn't 3.5 core monster, though, so I wasn't aware of it's older fluff.

[Naanomi]

Except as a member of a larger incorporeal undead 'ghost army' storyline I'm not sure I've ever used or fought a banshee

[Nifft]

I don't really like the fluff that banshees got. I like the old Irish myths about them basically being a supernatural warning system to a family line, and I'd adapt that to turn them into supernatural bodyguards who protect their family with their existence, but cannot be forever destroyed until the family line is. Which leads to a really nasty fight with a Necromancer with his Banshee guardian. But the guardian can be removed by eliminating his poor old mother who is living a simple life in the country (still have to fight a Banshee either way though)

That's badass, and I'm totally stealing it.

[Naanomi]

Mythologically they were not body guards really since there was nothing you could do to 'fight fate' once you heard their cry (and they would be fae not undead), they were at best a warning to get your affairs in order

[RazDelacroix]

I find that when core fluff vs. player fluffy ideas vs. DM fluffy notions come up, I like to ferret my way into/out of such situations with the following argument.

Mortal sages can get details wrong. Immortal sages like to write propaganda. Undead sages write bad fanfiction.

That way, I can have the same stats for critters like the banshee, and still have 5-138 different In-Game representations of it! That, or I'm lazy and have to be reminded to be consistent in campaign details...

[MrConsideration]

Yeah, I think that's the best way to go about presenting most 'mystery' monsters like Werewolves. Vampires etc (it will be a long time before we reach those here!) Keep them unique, keep players guessing - and ham up the threat if you can!

Basilisk

The Basilisk is another ancient mythological beastie, and another creature toting a nasty save-or-die effect despite a fairly low CR. The depiction here is quite removed from Pliny the Elder, where the Basilisk was a normal snake....that could kill with a glance.



Art
The artwork for the Basilisk takes quite a unique direction, making the beast much stockier and more hale than the usual serpentine depiction. As a monster this makes it seem more animalistic, rather than cunning. The mess of legs and huge maw make the creature distinctive image. Another great piece of monster art.

Purpose and Tactics
Basilisks, being of animal intelligence, are unlikely to appear as anything other than one-shot antagonists of the party in an appropriate region or locale.
The Basilisk is a melee monster whose passive gaze ability mainly works to keep his enemies in disarray. As a solo encounter, he’s tough for low-level characters doing just that. If you opt to have him as a cohort to another powerful enemy the passive control he exerts with his gaze is extremely powerful.

The rules for adjudicating the dreaded gaze are a little unwieldy. If any character directly looks at the Basilisk – and are within 30 feet – they need to make the save. If they declare themselves to be covering their eyes they needn’t – but this presumably imposes disadvantage on attacks akin to Blindness. To an informed party the gaze is something of a ‘fleet-in-being’; never actually being utilised but existing as a threat to keep the party stumbling around in a bizarre mix of slapstick and combat while the Basilisk chews on the softer members. For the DM using a battlemat, it creatures the conundrum of whether you rule that characters are aware of their position and the relative position of enemies and allies. Personally I’d leave them to their Three-Stooges-style antics whilst the Basilisk eats his fill, but I’m a sadist like that. Do feats like Sentinel still work if you’re covering your eyes? There is a lot to consider for the Basilisk’s Gaze, and it’d an effort to not make it seem like a cheap way of counteracting the player’s abilities.

The difficulty of attaining a Greater Restoration at third level (Druids and Clerics get can cast it at level 9) makes risking the Constitution save extremely dangerous for your players. In many settings, my own included, high-level clerics aren’t easy to find, and the prospect of lugging your statuesque friend back to town for de-petrification isn’t appealing. If you’re using the Basilisk at a high level as part of a composite encounter petrification might be only a temporary inconvenience, even if it could still swing the battle easily enough.

The 30ft limit, much like the Banshee, seems far too game-y, and creates the same bizarre image of someone standing 31 feet away enjoying a staring contest with the Basilisk whilst their comrade a few inches nearer is becoming a fetching lawn ornament. It also exposes a Basilisk to ranged attacks, so avoid using this creature out in the open.

The defences of the Basilisk seem a little weak, probably to counteract the poor performance of your motley blinded players – but the damage is hefty enough from its bite attack to make it very dangerous, even at higher levels.

Fluff
Much Basilisk fluff focuses on their uses to humanoids. They can be domesticated and are useful for alchemists. This is all a little bland, but necessary for plot-hook generation beyond the old staple ‘the Basilisk wants to eat you and is in your way’. Their ability to devour stone is a great explanation for why their gaze exists (otherwise they’d be depriving themselves of prey with every kill) and the idea of the chewed-upon stone reforming into flesh in the digestive tract is an appropriately disgusting end of foolhardy player characters. This doesn’t seem to gel with the fact that you recognise their lair by the abundance of statues – wouldn’t the big bad Basilisk have eaten them all? Adroit players will always recognise a random mess of statues as the lair of a Basilisk (or Medusa or Gorgon) and will begin using mirrors and covering their eyes immediately. Perhaps to really screw with them you should place a mess of statues in some other monster’s lair?

Hooks
The Shah desires a Basilisk for his Garden of Deadly Delights. Anyone who can claim an egg for him (or claim an egg convincingly is a Basilisk egg…) will be given his pick of the Shah’s treasure.

An amazing outsider-artist is taking the city by storm. He is infamous for incredibly lifelike depictions of the human form in stone, and the maudlin nature of his works: individuals screaming, fighting, begging, weeping. Most shockingly, the artist is blind! Can your players link his mysterious success and a series of disappearances?

A young dragon is trying to establish himself in a region of wilderness, but many local monsters refuse to accept his sovereignty. Can you push, persuade, cajole or kill a recalcitrant Basilisk out of the region in return for a share of a dragon’s hoard?


Verdict: Fun and appropriately disruptive – can easily be added to higher-level encounters, too. As a monster, it provokes thinking in your players.

[UXLZ]

How much do you think unlimiting its stone gaze range would increase its effective challenge rating by? (Within reason of course, if you're standing a kilometer away and the basilisk itself is just a tiny pinprick it 'aint gonna be stone-gazing you.)

[Corey]

My idea of a Basilisk, and probably many other folks' as well:

http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/10311_1.jpg

It seems there's a later one that's well heftier:

http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/128020_1.jpg

[MrConsideration]

How much do you think unlimiting its stone gaze range would increase its effective challenge rating by? (Within reason of course, if you're standing a kilometer away and the basilisk itself is just a tiny pinprick it 'aint gonna be stone-gazing you.)

Not much, overall - maybe a single CR. After all, it stops PCs being able to stand a distance away and ping away, but the Basilisk could easily move towards them to make sure its Gaze is affecting everyone.

[Naanomi]

A fun combo: basilisk (or other petrifying monsters) and stone golems: is that another victim or another combatant?

[INDYSTAR188]

A fun combo: basilisk (or other petrifying monsters) and stone golems: is that another victim or another combatant?

Oohhh I like this! Or maybe the basilisk is a guardian of a medusa's stone garden...

[Naanomi]

Oohhh I like this! Or maybe the basilisk is a guardian of a medusa's stone garden...
Yeah I've played the 'petrification squad' (a medusa riding a gorgon with basilisk 'hunting hounds') once before back in 2e. Just make sure your party has some access to de-petrification before you go into it.

A note on petrifying monsters: it can be a good way to get loot out of a game. Sometimes party deaths just end up reinvesting gear back into the party as they strip their dead companion dry of anything useful; it can be especially bad if you have a system for starting higher level characters with some magic items in place (dying becomes item farming?). Petrification (and a few other types of death) can be a way that actually removes items from play... oh I'm sorry, that cloak was destroyed when the statue broke during the fight...

[Ralanr]

How much do you think unlimiting its stone gaze range would increase its effective challenge rating by? (Within reason of course, if you're standing a kilometer away and the basilisk itself is just a tiny pinprick it 'aint gonna be stone-gazing you.)

Wouldn't everything in its line of sigh become stone?

[JackPhoenix]

In one of the Eberron novels, there was a medusa (who politely averted her eyes in the presence of her guests) with pet blind basilisk that scared the hell out of one character when he saw him for the first time and wasn't yet aware he's harmless.

I think it's a great idea for a villain: he keeps blind basilisk close to him as a distraction, he's safe from it's gaze, but the characters don't know that, and keeping their eyes shut will limit their combat effectivness. And after (if) PC's defeat them, they may wonder what magic the villain used to keep himself from being turned into stone...

[smcmike]

Fluff
Much Basilisk fluff focuses on their uses to humanoids. They can be domesticated and are useful for alchemists. This is all a little bland, but necessary for plot-hook generation beyond the old staple ‘the Basilisk wants to eat you and is in your way’. Their ability to devour stone is a great explanation for why their gaze exists (otherwise they’d be depriving themselves of prey with every kill) and the idea of the chewed-upon stone reforming into flesh in the digestive tract is an appropriately disgusting end of foolhardy player characters. This doesn’t seem to gel with the fact that you recognise their lair by the abundance of statues – wouldn’t the big bad Basilisk have eaten them all?


Eventually, sure, but petrification is a pretty effective means of food storage. He's just a big squirrel storing nuts for the winter.

[Ralanr]

Eventually, sure, but petrification is a pretty effective means of food storage. He's just a big squirrel storing nuts for the winter.

If he eats stone.
I think that's kinda how 5e describes petrification. Paralysis might be better for food storage.

[SharkForce]

If he eats stone.
I think that's kinda how 5e describes petrification. Paralysis might be better for food storage.

short-term, maybe, but a petrified person will keep for years, decades, or even centuries.

[Sindeloke]

That potentially implies a hibernation cycle, which could make for an interesting plot hook.

[Envyus]

A thing about the Basalisk is that you don't need greater restoration to fix the problem. It's pointed out that their gullet can be used to create oil that can restore petrified creatures. An extension of the fact that Basalisks eat stoned creatures that turn back into flesh in their bellies.

[Forum Explorer]

Mythologically they were not body guards really since there was nothing you could do to 'fight fate' once you heard their cry (and they would be fae not undead), they were at best a warning to get your affairs in order

Yeah, but mythologically speaking they weren't really a monster to be fought.


A thing about the Basalisk is that you don't need greater restoration to fix the problem. It's pointed out that their gullet can be used to create oil that can restore petrified creatures. An extension of the fact that Basalisks eat stoned creatures that turn back into flesh in their bellies.

Very much this. Get some use out of those skills!

[MrConsideration]

The Behir

Much like people commented with the Banshee or the Azer, this is a monster I have never used or seen used or even heard of anyone using. Which is odd - it's a D&D creation with a lineage as least as old as the Owlbear or the Mind Flayer, without an obvious mythological forebear (well, apart from the fact that it's a slightly more naff dragon). For some reason this dragon, which only speaks Draconic and has a breath weapon, is relegated to the 'monstrosity' category instead.

I always found 'lightning breath' to be quite difficult to visualise, so I'd refluff that as breathing out some kind of static cloud - you want to retain the rare damage type which is fairly difficult to resist.

Art
I like this depiction - it's lithe and wet and sinewy, and manages to look monstrous yet simultaneously plausible as a living thing. My only objection is the art could have been used to demonstrate the tactics that are alluded to in the fluff, and that its not clear that the Behir is supposed to be pretty Huge. It's tucked up in the corner (partially off the page in fact) to make room for flavour text and statblock. Surely you can fit a snake-like creature in anywhere you like?

It does suffer from being opposite another blue reptile with loads of legs, though.


Purpose and Tactics
The Behir is a man-eating (and apparently troglodyte and Mind Flayer-eating - gross) monster, clearly developed with a strong emphasis on ambushing the party and swallowing a hapless PC. The Behir has solid Stealth and Perception scores, and can grapple and bite for immediately swallow one PC before fighting the other. As a tactic, it creates great drama - even if the mechanic of being swallowed isn't altogether onerous, players will immediately feel a very strong sense of peril and engagement once they're residing in a Behir's belly. It is an impressive climber and moves extremely quick - whilst the players are scaling a cliff-race or traversing a mountainside or sloshing through a murky cavern, you ambush them. If you fight the Behir an empty room, the fight will fizzle. If you fight it on a storm-wracked mountain side, it's a true monster. Use that 40ft climb speed to ambush and nab a character, then retreat through tough terrain. This terrain also lines up the characters for the Behir's breath attack, which is a line - fairly useless as an Area of Effect attack in the open fields, but brilliant when players are clinging to the cliff-face. Try to embrace the kinetic side of this monster - it climbs on the wall, the roof, biting and scratching and retreating and winding its away across territory - it never stops weaving in and out, it never just stands to trade blows. As a CR 11 threat, using these tactics will help reduce the action-economy issues normally faced by solo monsters, as the Behir lacks the luxury of lair actions and other legendary saves and other privileges that it's big brothers have.

The Behir is also, to a degree, intelligent. With an intelligence of 7, it about matches a moronic human- but you can talk to it, and it presumably possesses desires and needs beyond eating adventurers. As an encounter, the Behir's chosen tactics don't lend themselves to having a conversation, but if your players successfully spot or anticipate a Behir, it could make a social encounter. I imagine a Behir would be easily tricked or manipulated - the fluff seems to establish them as fairly gluttonous and grasping.


Fluff
The fluff establishes the Behir's habitat and hunting strategies, which mesh extremely well with the statblock opposite. I think they've very simply captured the platonic ideal of Behirness with a few simple mechanics. The text here gives a great sense of how the Behir, which helps visualise this very weird creature for the DM.

Another focus in the fluff is the rivalry between Behir and Dragons. I imagine most Dragons see Behir as hillbilly cousins due to their low intelligence, and that Behir despise those high-falutin' Dragons as putting on airs. 5e has the Behir as being made by Storm Giants to combat Dragonkind, but I'd rather simply have Dragons, Wyverns, Dragonnes, Behir and the like to be just trees on some vast taxonomic branch. I find D&D has a preponderance of races being created and subsequently abandoned, and Storm Giants don't seem up to the task - aren't they just big Vikings with a superiority complex?


Hooks

The Dwarves of the Roaring Mountains have always warned traders not to cross the passes when a storm is brewing - for whenever the tumult is at its worst, whole caravans disappear. One ambitious merchant wants you to investigate and solve this mystery - find what lurks in the tenebrous tempest, and stop its predation.

The Terror in the Tempest has grown fat on Dwarf-meat and rich in stolen gold. His last wish is to find and slay a Dragon, that he might know he has lived a good and full life. Will your players lure the Terror to glory or death?

Verdict: A good monster and dragon-alternative.

Next: the Beholder.

[VoxRationis]

5e has the Behir as being made by Storm Giants to combat Dragonkind, but I'd rather simply have Dragons, Wyverns, Dragonnes, Behir and the like to be just trees on some vast taxonomic branch. I find D&D has a preponderance of races being created and subsequently abandoned, and Storm Giants don't seem up to the task - aren't they just big Vikings with a superiority complex?


Eh. Storm Giants do have magic-users among them, and the Behir isn't a particularly elegantly-designed creature, nor even one that well-optimized for fighting dragons (frankly, a manticore, which has both a fly speed and ranged attacks, seems better suited in principle, and swallow whole is an ability suited to fighting humanoids, not dragons). It comes off as a slapdash job, or one done without a terrible amount of expertise. They took a serpent, tried to make a dragon of it, and got this. They forgot that they'd need to program the middle limbs' development differently to make wings, and so they wound up with extra legs.

[SharkForce]

Eh. Storm Giants do have magic-users among them, and the Behir isn't a particularly elegantly-designed creature, nor even one that well-optimized for fighting dragons (frankly, a manticore, which has both a fly speed and ranged attacks, seems better suited in principle, and swallow whole is an ability suited to fighting humanoids, not dragons). It comes off as a slapdash job, or one done without a terrible amount of expertise. They took a serpent, tried to make a dragon of it, and got this. They forgot that they'd need to program the middle limbs' development differently to make wings, and so they wound up with extra legs.

or perhaps they wanted the behir to be forced to rely on their magic for flight. not much point in making a servitor creature that can just fly away and you can't do much to stop it.

also worth noting that inside a typical dragon's lair, flight is probably a much smaller advantage so long as you can walk on the walls and ceiling.

[DireSickFish]

The problem I have with the Behir is that it comes at a time when I'm mostly likely to just use a dragon instead. My games don't run much past the teens so mid/high CR monsters are either intelligent and not likely to be fought or.. intelligent and the big bad of the game.

The Behir strikes me as a "monastery" monster much like the Owlbear you mentioned and Ankhegs. You could throw one in anywhere tearing apart an area. Or just living in a dungeon in high level games to provide fodder. You don't wear out a dragons welcome by having it play mook or monster.

As story purposes I've been tempted to use them as the driving force for why the party has to deal with a Dragon. It either drove out a younger dragon that is giving the PC's fits. Either because its chromatic and trying to take over a populated are or because it's good and the PC's want to help it out. The PC's can go deal with the Behir instead of dealing with the dragon, or just let the Behir be in the background of the story and never encountered.

[Naanomi]

I like behir or other dragony monsters, I get tired of killing baby dragons and these offer alternatives (saving full grown dragons for later)

These work well in particular for underground encounters where flying types don't work (and skittering through narrow, steep tunnels is creepy fun)

[Ralanr]

Ahh the Behir, one of those monsters in the awkward category of CR 11.

I ended up writing a short story with a behir as the monster. It was actually quite fun, it could communicate with its intelligence as is and it was more enjoyable than I thought to write up a monster obsessed with eating his prey.

I also had fun with its constrict and devour abilities. So much fun in working with that.

[Bohrdumb]

Jumping back to the Basilisk (note I don't yet have an MM, it's in the mail):

The 30' gaze does seem a little strange. I might rule that players outside of 30' still have to make the save but could do so with Advantage.

I might also utilize 'facing' against this creature and create paper templates to lay on the mat that serve as the field of vision for players. If they turn to face the basilisk or the basilisk enters their field of vision and they don't close their eyes - saving throw!

[MrConsideration]

I personally like to reserve Dragons as the ultimate monster - you don't get an ego boost murdering pint-sized ones at level 7. The only ones that exist are barely known, unique and preside over vast swathes of wilderness (I also don't colour-code them - Dragons are individuals who are just a step below gods. No-one knows what they're into or up to!) There's a wasteland on the map and everyone knows a dragon lives there, and my players are free to wander to that region.....but they're probably not coming out again.

Due to this, I get a lot of mileage from Wyverns and Behirs and whatnot. You don't get no lame-ass CR 10 dragons in my world. It's Ancient Red Dragon with 8th level casting and rare magic items or bust.*

I find keeping track of where people are facing really irritating, so I tell myself that people would be looking around frantically in combat anyway. You can't track where the Basilisk is and somehow avoid inadvertently catching eyes like its your ex-girlfriend at a party when you're fighting for your life!

Behir, like many D&D original monsters, are clearly designed to live in dungeons and eat Orcs in 10 x 10" rooms.

I'm sure Storm Giants do have Wizards, but they just don't seem particularly academic.



*This generally results in me never using dragons.

[DireSickFish]

lol you use Dragons like I use Aboliths.

[Shining Wrath]

The Behir is what you get if you cross-breed a Purple Worm with a Blue Dragon. And I agree, it's a tough one to find a good use for, but an easy one to just throw in as mini-boss.

[Nifft]

My personal take on Behirs was to make them slithering, burrowing, draconic egg-eaters.

They were feared and hated by Dragons because they sought out their nests and at their young.

(I also changed some Dragons to not have a burrow speed, so it was a very asymmetric war.)


Storm Giants as creators could fit this use -- perhaps they deliberately enlarged the Behir progenitors, and then they deliberately infested their mountain homes with the things so they wouldn't have to worry about Dragon roosts. Lighting breath is basically tickling a Storm Giant so they didn't worry about over-breeding the slithery buggers.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

hard to visualize
I'm not sure why. It opens it's mouth and lightning comes out. I don't see why that's harder than lightning shooting from someone's hands. I picture the lightning as bluish-white for behir, which matches their color scheme well.

Behir are pretty nice creatures, I like to set up encounters were the party has the option to bribe them, maybe to team up against a true dragon. They were lesser dragons (dragon type but not true dragons) in 3.5, I believe, odd that they're monstrosities now.

jumped up vikings
You're actually thinking of Frost Giants. Storm Giants tend to be more Greek, like lesser titans. They still don't seem magical enough to be engineering creatures, though.

[RazDelacroix]

Well of course the giants these days do not seem to be up to snuff for fluff regarding the magical reworkings of nature. That's what they did in the PAST when they had a stable empire in the throes of a war against the dragons! Heck, the most probable sorts to blame for any magical experiments gone right/wrong, the eldritch giants, have yet to be statted up for 5th edition. So we'll blame them.

Giant wizards did it!

[Flashy]

Giant wizards did it!

A wizard is never giant, nor is he tiny. He is precisely the size he means to be.

[NNescio]

Personally I love animated armor. From experience it's AC and damage is a bit high for a level 1 encounter (party of 3, my character almost got killed). But it's something I would just love to use in any scenario.

DM sicced a horde (8) of animated armors on a Level 2 party. His intention was for us to retreat, or possibly hold them off at a corridor.

We killed all of them after going through multiple bags of ball bearings, caltrops, flasks of oil, and pitons (to ram doors shut). Also a bunch of readied actions to shoot at the first animated armor that shows up.

That encounter took nearly 2 hours (real time), due to all the running around and up to 5 saving throws being rolled each time an animated armor moves.

Yes, creatures can move through caltrops and ball bearings at half speed without triggering the effect, but animated armors are too dumb to do that anyway.

The armors basically chased us all around the place they're guarding while slipping and falling with the occasional fire they have to walk through. Or a jammed door, which they will try break open, only to be hit by 4 readied ranged attacks the moment they do so.

And yes, the party bard was playing the Benny Hill theme the whole time this was happening.

[MrConsideration]

The Beholder

The Beholder is one of the most iconic monsters of D&D history - a unique, if kooky, monstrosity born specifically into the fabric of D&D - in its DNA, a Beholder epitomises that weird combination of po-faced fantasy and gonzo silliness that is at the very heart of D&D. It's a big Nazi eye-ball that floats around zapping people randomly. Whats not to like?

I'll cover the Beholders, like the Angels, as one. Again, they are fairly similar- there's the proper one, the stupid low-level one for parties who want their egos stroked by killing Baby's First beholder, and the silly undead one, because all evil monsters must have a silly undead version* with a higher CR - I'm looking at you, Alhoon, you Al-loon.


Art
We have a lot of options, here.

Firstly, the cover art features a Beholder prominently. When I first ever played D&D, aged around ten, I remember looking at the original D&D Monster Manual with its eccentric use of scale and perspective and random hodge-podge of amateurish drawings and genuinely believing that the drawings had been done my friend's Dad, our DM - no-one could seriously sell something so poor quality, right?

We have come far indeed. The scene is dramatic and intense, and emphasise the monster rather than the characters - who are both about to flee. Hey, this isn't their manual. The Beholder is starkly lit, the central eye focusing on the viewer, vicious teeth bared whilst the subsidiary eyes dart around. It's a very powerful image, and I'm sure they picked the Beholder as the poster child-eater of D&D to stress their heritage as 'the world's greatest role-playing game'.
In the manual entry there are other depictions. One shows a single Beholder mournfully drifting over a forlorn vista with only a petrified adventurers for company. I find this strikes a real chord of loneliness, and evokes pity for the Beholder whose hate drives him into further madness. I find these sophisticated pieces much more of a boon to bringing a Beholder into my campaign story than another scene of one snarling mid-battle. The next page features a Beholder almost rubbing its hands with malevolent glee - great, but not ground breaking. Then we have the Death Tyrant (which should clearly be called a Beholich via standard Monster Manual naming conventions) which just looks silly. The Spectator says 'gleeful puppy' to me, not 'monster': but maybe blame for that belongs to Monsters Inc. All in all, some great, evocative art, and a few functional pieces.

Purpose and Tactics.


Beholders are bosses. They're masterminds. They're running the Thieves' Guild, the Church of Pelor, the city of Neverwinter, the World Bank, the IMF - they're the Illuminati with poor depth perception. As masterminds, you will encounter their slaves and underlings, which means at lot of levels you can make really interesting encounters featuring a Beholder AND their trio of Tiefling assassin triplets or their pet Manticore or their Ogrillon bodyguards or whatever mix of abilities will make for a really interesting fight. After you've trashed their plans and bumped off their minions, your storm into the lair, the Beholder turns around, using its Mage Hand eye stalk to caress a chaotic-evil moggie and telepathically announces that it has been expecting you, Mr Drizzt.

The exception is the Spectator, which is a basic guard-dog monster to thoughtlessly put in almost any dungeon anywhere. Yawn.

There's the potential of diplomacy with a Beholder, and one could make a really interesting patron or quest-giver in a grittier campaign. Perhaps the Beholder grants much-needed stability as the Godfather of the criminal underworld - if anyone topples it, there will be blood in the streets. As eccentrics, their motivations can be as varied as any; maybe the Beholder wants to gather the corpses of Beholders to remind itself of its own perfection, or gain control of a cavern from Mind Flayers or Troglodytes, or acquire items of prophetic value - any of these could lead to hooks for your PCs. In an intrigue-laden campaign, Beholders fit right in - but they're very likely to betray your inferior players. Bear in mind that they only speak Undercommon and Deep Speech by the book.

In battle, the Beholder functions as a maelstrom of chaos and weirdness. Using its legendary actions in addition to its normal abilities can net you six random eye blasts a round, all offering some pretty brutal affects - sleep, paralysis, disintegration - to affect the party. Combining with with a huge 120ft cone anti-magic field, the Beholder is a mighty combatant when it comes o disabling characters, but its damage is not dependable. A Beholder with some minions to strike the killing blow while it knocks characters out of the combat is a much more frightening prospect, and fits its role as an overlord of slaves. The Eye Tyrant's variant, which prevents healing, seems weaker than the anti-magic cone, but allows the Eye Tyrant to zap those victims with its eye rays as well. You could easily homebrew other effects for Eye Rays as well, that might match the personality of a well-established Beholder character in your campaign.

To maximise the power of the Beholder, you should use it in an open area - a cavernous room, or an actual cavern, to take advantage of the enormous range of the Beholder's abilities without allowing the Beholder to be cornered - its slow movement will otherwise limit the damage it can inflict. Using Levitation to boost the Beholder is bigger in 5e than previous editions of the game, as Flight spells and similar are limited by Concentration. If the fighting is taking place in ruins or atop a mountainside, Levitation massively increases he ability of the Beholder to disrupt player's strategies, and simultaneously the geography will expose the PCs to even more danger if they are debilitated by Telekinesis or other effects.


Fluff

The fluff discusses the strange nature of Beholders; their nigh-solipsistic xenophobia and aggression. The fact that almost every Beholder is unique is great for a Dungeon Master who wants to take on player expectations about how the creature functions: maybe this Beholder is an aquatic Beholder with gills and tentacles, maybe this other Beholder has skin like a chameleon, allowing it to blend with its surroundings, maybe this other Beholder has vestigial limbs granting it proper spell-casting. Their contempt for other Beholders is brilliant, and helps differentiate them from the normal procession of ancient fantasy Nazis like the Aboleths or the Ithilids - it is rich in character and plot hooks.

There is also a fair amount of information in the fluff that establish that Beholders hoard things, and make their lairs in strange regions empty of life except that which they dominate. This is one of those bits in the Monster Manual which is a wink-and-a-nudge telling you that it's ok for this monster to be sitting on a pile of treasure in some random dungeon somewhere - that's what Beholders do. The fact that each dungeon is built along the Beholder's own avant-garde aesthetic means you can use whatever weird set-pieces appeal.

There's no origin for the Beholder, which I think is brilliant. This allows you to fit them into whatever cosmology or setting you want.

Hooks


A Beholder king-pin is threatened by another gang which is exploding onto the scene. He wants someone to get to the root of this other gang, and whatever faction has been arming them. How will your players intervene in this struggle?

A Beholder collector desires the wings of a sprite, the teeth of a chimera, the fingers of a great pianist, or some other arcane object to complete their collection.

The Beholder Vagarraz esteems himself the greatest living creature. He looks always for new challengers to do battle with - can you players find him a match....or be that match themselves?

Verdict: A fantastic monster, designed to be monstrous.

*One thing I really like about 3.x and Pathfinder is the use of templates to create those special snowflake villains. "Yes but THIS Beholder...." shouldn't need an entry. It's when people start applying templates to player-characters (or multiple templates) that silliness creeps in. If you're a half-fiendish, half-dragon, half-celestial, half-genasi half-Orc and you're munchkin-ing requires creative abuse of fractions and Ancestry.com, I'm going to say no.

[Nifft]

The Beholder

(...) they're the Illuminati with poor depth perception.

Objection.

They have lots of depth perception.

[MrConsideration]

For some reason I've never seen the eye-stalks as letting them see. They do have +12 Perception, so I think you might be right.

[Sindeloke]

I actually think the spectators are far more interesting than the beholders. I've fought beholders, I've run beholders, beholders are old hat. You show up, they try to kill you, you stab them in their many eyes and take their loot. They certainly incline themselves toward more interesting combat setpieces than the old tank-n-spank, but they're still fundamentally the thing you find at the end of a crawl full of other things, all of which are trying to kill you and all of which you kill in return. Their xenophobia and narcissism won't allow anything else. Submission, captivity, or creatures which exist outside their control are intolerable, taking all non-lethal solutions off the table.

Spectators, though, are kind of fascinating. They're friendly madmen who will happily tell you all the dungeon's secrets if you ask them properly, and have absolutely no issue with you as long as you don't go after whatever specific piece of quite possibly useless loot they're guarding. They have a time limit on their guardianship, past which it appears they don't care, so you have the option to trick them into thinking their contract has expired and they should just let you pass should they be guarding something you do want. They loathe each other just as much as other beholders but are (comparatively) weak summonable pansies, so you could even have an underground dog fight ring with them or something without worrying about the winner getting ambitious and mind-controlling everyone into becoming the next eldritch cult. They have an automatic hook in their single-quirk insanity to make talking to them memorable, and they can provide a useful infodump, an interesting battle (spell reflection is awesome) or simply flavor along the way up the tower of the Powerful Wizard questgiver you're visiting.

[MrConsideration]

I actually think the spectators are far more interesting than the beholders....


I hadn't actually read the fluff on them - you're right, they do have some really interesting aspects as an encounter and a lot of story hooks.

Plus when you describe them many experienced players will pitch a fit that you've included a Beholder in the dungeon when they're level 4....

[JoeJ]

My only complaint about the beholder entry is that Wizards didn't include anything at all about hive mothers and their ability to organize the normally solitary beholders. I'm just imagining a group of players who aren't familiar with older editions discovering that they have to infiltrate an entire city of beholders, or that one of the space traveling beholder nations has decided that the PCs home town is a good location for their newest colony.

[Nifft]

My only complaint about the beholder entry is that Wizards didn't include anything at all about hive mothers and their ability to organize the normally solitary beholders. I'm just imagining a group of players who aren't familiar with older editions discovering that they have to infiltrate an entire city of beholders, or that one of the space traveling beholder nations has decided that the PCs home town is a good location for their newest colony.

I'm kinda okay with the idea that there are no such cities.

The fact that low-CR opponents remain relevant at high levels means that the DM no longer needs cities full of high-CR monsters for infiltration challenges.


So we no longer need Beholders to suddenly violate their main flavor text just so the Thief Rogue can get some spotlight shone into his niche, and that's a good thing.

[Naanomi]

Room for future monster manuals to expand in to deal with the varied world of space-beholder society

I like beholders because of their particular and unique insanity. Illithid, aboleth, neogi... are evil and alien but scheming... They won't float away gloating once they have you down, or start screaming at a minion about their treachery in the middle of pitched combat.

Beholders are quirkily unpredictable, and this can both be fun but also allow you to use them against weaker adventurers: if a beholder proves too tough it can stop and gloat, demanding penance before you leave its presence.

That same quirkyness leads them to a 'lesser of two evil' story well as well. A powerful manipulative banker's guild is having a shadow war with a ruthless assassin's league. What if one side... The less evil side... Is run by a beholder? What if both sides are run by Beholders but one is amiable while one is onnicidal? What if both sides are run by the same, very paranoid beholder?

[Nifft]

A powerful manipulative banker's guild is having a shadow war with a ruthless assassin's league. What if one side... The less evil side... Is run by a beholder? What if both sides are run by Beholders but one is amiable while one is onnicidal? What if both sides are run by the same, very paranoid beholder?

Suddenly, I'm very suspicious about holding companies, especially this one: http://bandbholdings.com/

[JackPhoenix]

There was an awesome (and funny) encounter with a beholder named The Spectator in Baldur's Gate II (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXk4jyLccDc , starting at about 2:30) who was pretty much exactly what 5e's Spectator is supposed to be. Now, I'm not familiar with 2e beholderkin, were Spectators a thing back then, or did 5e creators got inspired by this scene?

[Envyus]

Did you not read the Death Tyrants Fluff ether. It's pretty cool.


zOn rare occasions, a beholder's sleeping mind drifts to places beyond its normal madness, imagining a reality in which it exists beyond death. When such dreams take hold, a beholder can transform, its flesh sloughing away to leave a death tyrant behind. This monster possesses the cunning and much of the magic it had in life, but it is fueled by the power of undeath.

Also I personally really like the Death Tyrant Art.

http://i.imgur.com/ioLj2Dk.jpg

[ShikomeKidoMi]

You covered my thoughts on Beholders and why they're great pretty well.

It was kind of odd that you kept referring to the Beholder's natural fly speed as capital 'L' Levitation, though.

[SharkForce]

There was an awesome (and funny) encounter with a beholder named The Spectator in Baldur's Gate II (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXk4jyLccDc , starting at about 2:30) who was pretty much exactly what 5e's Spectator is supposed to be. Now, I'm not familiar with 2e beholderkin, were Spectators a thing back then, or did 5e creators got inspired by this scene?

they were indeed a thing back done. typically used to guard treasures and such by powerful wizards and all that.

[Shining Wrath]

Beholders are eyeconic. No question.

And yes, it's easy to modify them. All those eyes? They keep using those eyes. They do not do what you think they do.

They are an excellent dungeon boss, especially if the dungeon is organized for some purpose

[Ralanr]

I pity the beholder minion that cleans up after the beholder does its business.

[Mrmox42]

MrConsideration, this is really and truly a great piece of work that you are doing. You give the rest of us some new angles and thoughts on the beasties.

I tip my hat, sir.

[Envyus]

I pity the beholder minion that cleans up after the beholder does its business.

Beholder waste is and the stuff they eat is transformed back into their drool.

[MrConsideration]

MrConsideration, this is really and truly a great piece of work that you are doing. You give the rest of us some new angles and thoughts on the beasties.

I tip my hat, sir.

Thank you very much!

[UXLZ]

Yeah, it's definitely super interesting and fun to read your take on the monsters. xD
Actually, I'm sorta tempted to start doing something similar but working in reverse. Don't wanna cramp your style though, so I might just write it out in secret and post whatever I have once you've finished.

[MrConsideration]

Nah, go for it. My style is uncrampable.

Plus we'll be on 7e by the time I get to Xorn or Zombie.

[UXLZ]

This first post probably isn't very good, but I'll get better. Hopefully.

Righty-O, Z to A. Ignoring the NPCs and Misc stuff and starting off with... Well, I guess it's best to get these out of the way ASAP.

Zombies

You know 'em you love 'em (or alternatively hate them, given how many terrible games have had them as the central theme in recent years.) DnD does not take them anywhere special.

Art

Aside from the Beholder, quite meh, and even that's not much of an improvement. Just like you'd expect, really. The normal zombie is shambling forward, the ogre zombie is brandishing a club, and the Beholder zombie is looking like a beholder that's rotted a bit.

Fluff

Can anyone say "boring" along with me? They're evil, mindless, hideous. As you'd expect, once more, they're just super generic Zombies. Personally, I'd advise mixing things up. An interesting idea might be that Zombies retain their mind and personalities, but it rots away along with their physical form.

It's fairly obvious that they themselves are never really meant to be the focus, it instead being on the necromancer, tainted land, world-shattering apocolypse and so forth and the big Zs themselves as a mere by-product.

Tactics and Purpose

Well... They're Zombies. With -4 INT, they aren't going to justifiably be doing much more other than moving in a straight line towards the PCs if they haven't got someone ordering them about. Undead fortitude can be a real pain for players if the zombies get lucky, but it gives a chance for the Paladin and Cleric to shine.

Really, what Zombies are traditionally there for is to meat shield for something more dangerous or block the way to something more important. Generally they'll be between you and their Mage master, but they can also be used as simple distractions or obstacles. The players might be fleeing a gradually crumbling bridge, littered with zombies trying to grab them as they pass.

The Ogre Zombie is slightly more capable (the Ogre a hulking brute with 85 hit points at CR 2) but just as boring as the common kind.
Beholder Zombies have access to their eye beams and may as well just be terrain features that shoot random stuff at you ever turn.

Hooks

Zombies are swarming outside the city gates! But... They've retained their personalities? They're looking desperately for a way to cure their affliction, but the guard wish to exterminate them due to untrustworthiness. What do you do?

Something's up in the Belcher's Crossroad Inn. No one's come out for weeks, the doors are barred, the windows are shuttered, and a horrific stench seeps from its walls every time the wind changes direction... Reports of people occasionally catching a glimpse of a huge, milky white eye staring sightlessly from the single unblocked top story window seem unfounded, but what if they're true?

The dead walk the streets in Eisenhauer's village, but the residents seem quite happy. A well-meaning necromancer brought back everyone's loved ones, mind intact, yet the spell's effect is slowly waning.They want you to help deal with the zombies before they - and the zombies themselves - lose control.

Overall

Eh, they're zombies, what did you expect? The best thing to do with them is either have them just there to get in the way, or modify the fluff somewhat so you can do more with them and maybe surprise players who are expecting the regular moaning and shambling mindless monstrosity. (That's what my hook suggestions are. Otherwise it'll tend to end up feeling like "There are Zombies. They are bad. Kill them.)

[DireSickFish]

UXLZ, just to give each monster room to breath on here would you mind posting your monster reviews in a new thread?

[UXLZ]

That seems completely redundant.

[Envyus]

That seems completely redundant.

Agreed.


Anyway I like Zombies in their simplicity. But yeah they should almost never be a focus. Their master is the focus. Like the Death Tyrant.

[UXLZ]

The simplicity can be a bit boring, but it also gives some good wiggle room for homebrewing stuff to come into play. The scenarios I suggested hooks seem fairly plausible compared to, say, GoodGuyDemons and stuff like that. Illithid that fight using swords and their big muscles, so on and so forth. Zombies are a bit of a blank slate, but by default, yeah, the focus is always on the thing causing the zombies.

[Corey]

GoT White Walkers are interesting. First, they look kind of cool. Second, they have very strong damage immunities. Third, they're pretty smart.

D&D zombies have none of those attributes.

[UXLZ]

As I mentioned in the review thing, DnD Zombies are primarily 2 things.

1) Ultra-Generic
2) Boring

Homebrew is necessary if you ever want then to be more than a side-encounter or bumps in the road that you forget about the moment you've passed them. Ogres and Beholders are just bigger, nastier bumps.

I like giving the players reason to sympathise with the Zombies by allowing them to retain their former memories/self (at least partially) for a time before slowly turning into the regular 'ole DnD Zombie. It's a relatively simple change but it warps the perspective people have of them oh so much, and gets rid of the giant "Kill This" badge they all wear on their chest.

[Naanomi]

Zombies are not an exciting main course, but are a good spice to add to other encounters to make them more tactically interesting. Any vampire, wizard, or just plain evil guy can benefit from zombies (and skeletons) about the battlefield

[Nifft]

If I were on a mission to make Zombies something other than boring, what I'd do is...

- Pair them with things that do area poison effects. Vrocks, Fungi, Iron Golems, and of course Green Dragons.

- Spellcasters who cast spells that deal poison (or better yet, inflict the Poisoned condition) are also great.

- Make some kind of note about their special death condition, which I think is unique in the game: find ways to buff that save, or reduce PC damage, so they can stay undead longer.

- Talk about how the Beholder Zombie could be turned into a really neat high-level vehicle (like a balloon).

[UXLZ]

You'd need no nose to ride in that balloon, though.

Also, I can't believe I completely forgot to mention their poison immunity. >_>
I thought about it, but in the end it slipped my mind.

[Flashy]

The simplicity can be a bit boring, but it also gives some good wiggle room for homebrewing stuff to come into play. The scenarios I suggested hooks seem fairly plausible compared to, say, GoodGuyDemons and stuff like that. Illithid that fight using swords and their big muscles, so on and so forth. Zombies are a bit of a blank slate, but by default, yeah, the focus is always on the thing causing the zombies.

The thing that ENCHANTED me about 5e zombies is their ability to make a save against death. (Afb and I forget the ability name). The addition of weird, crazy abilities to traditional low level HP sponge mooks was one of the things that first attracted me to 5e. They're generic fluff-wise, but an impressive twist on an old format mechanically.

[UXLZ]

Pretty sure 4E did the same thing.

[VoxRationis]

I'm not sure why it is a bad thing that zombies are generic. It's useful to have opponents that can be dropped into many different contexts.

[RazDelacroix]

I kinda like the lack of absolute fluff on zombies. Helps me bring up this occasional conversation piece!

"So, what kind of zombies are they?"

"WHADDYA MEAN WHAT KIND?! SHUT UP AND KILL'EM ALREADY!"

"Well, are they the kind that always get back up after you knock them down? Do they transfer their zombiness by bites?"

"Do they only come out at night?"

"Oh that's a good one!"

"THEY'RE BRINGIN' DOWN THA DOORS! KILL'EM!"

"They could be the 'we are really alive but rabid animals now' sort."

"Rage spell gone viral."

"Doing nothing but reading books all day."

"Could be only active so long as a necro- oh hey, these are the super-strength-once-hero sorts! Man, look at them tear through that dwarf."


I could just be cruel and have my players be paranoid about all the zombie 'myths' they learn IC.

[Strill]

I'm not sure why it is a bad thing that zombies are generic. It's useful to have opponents that can be dropped into many different contexts.

Yeah. If everything absolutely has to be a special snowflake, then you end up with a monster manual that only applies to one setting. I think it's fine to have basic, standard-issue zombies.

[UXLZ]

As far as I see it the issue isn't that the Zombies aren't special snowflakes, more that the Zombies are like all other generic fantasy zombies ever. There's nothing that stands out about them whatsoever.

It makes sense, I just personally find them quite *yawn*worthy as-is.

These are zombies. Kill them.

[Ralanr]

As far as I see it the issue isn't that the Zombies aren't special snowflakes, more that the Zombies are like all other generic fantasy zombies ever. There's nothing that stands out about them whatsoever.

It makes sense, I just personally find them quite *yawn*worthy as-is.

These are zombies. Kill them.

Their potential to not die is really cool in my opinion. You can have this horde of zombies that keep coming despite all the damage you throw at them!

Really says alot for an unstoppable army.

[goto124]

Zombies do come in different types right? Did the MM list out a few types, and describe how they're different? 'This one died only when its head is knocked off its neck. This one stops only when the necromancer controlling them has her head knocked off her neck. This one...'

[UXLZ]

Nope, as generic as can be.

[Ralanr]

Nope, as generic as can be.

Beholder Zombies?

Then again we already have a bunch of undead types. Should undead just be changed to zombie?

[Broken Crown]

I'm personally rather pleased with how they did 5e zombies. Yes, they're generic. They're zombies, probably the most generic of all undead, so there's really no need to come up with fancy backstory for them. At the same time, giving them Undead Fortitude emphasizes their status as insensate, animate corpses, in that they can take massive damage and simply not die: a little mechanical crunch to go with their fluff. All in all, a simple, elegantly designed monster.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Standard zombies are more likely to show up on the PCs side than as enemies in my experience (though they usually prefer skeletons), so something simple, generic, and easy to handle is fine.

[Nifft]

As far as I see it the issue isn't that the Zombies aren't special snowflakes, more that the Zombies are like all other generic fantasy zombies ever. There's nothing that stands out about them whatsoever.

It makes sense, I just personally find them quite *yawn*worthy as-is.

These are zombies. Kill them.


Nope, as generic as can be.

Most of this thread is about MrConsideration inspiring discussion about his insights into the monsters.

But, uh... instead of inspiring a discussion about your insights into the monster, UXLZ, you're starting to get into an argument in which you refuse to acknowledge other people's insights into a monster.

This seems kinda unlike the rest of the thread.

[UXLZ]

You're chasing shadows. I've said that I think that having blank-slate type monsters are good from a general perspective, but I personally (emphasis there) find them a bit boring (and I suggested a few interesting, to me, directions they could be taken in if you wanted something where the Zombs were the focus rather than the side dish.)

By the way, that quote of me saying "Nope. As generic as can be." I feel is a perfect descriptor of them. Does it have negative connotations? I guess, but it's a true statement. Is it the language I use? I probably sound a lot more angry/aggressive than I intend.

Honestly though, there just... Isn't really that much to talk about with Zombies, at least as far as I can see. Maybe I'm missing it?

[Nifft]

You're chasing shadows. I've said that I think that having blank-slate type monsters are good from a general perspective, but I personally (emphasis there) find them a bit boring (and I suggested a few interesting, to me, directions they could be taken in if you wanted something where the Zombs were the focus rather than the side dish.)

By the way, that quote of me saying "Nope. As generic as can be." I feel is a perfect descriptor of them. Does it have negative connotations? I guess, but it's a true statement. Is it the language I use? I probably sound a lot more angry/aggressive than I intend. I think it's less your tone, and more the fact that you're emphasizing your opinions about stuff rather than having any interesting insights into the monsters.

The fact that you have an opinion is ... nice for you, I guess, but it's not particularly useful to my game.

MrConsideration does more than just have a page-long opinion.


Honestly though, there just... Isn't really that much to talk about with Zombies, at least as far as I can see. Maybe I'm missing it? Yeah, that's kinda the whole point of the people who are trying to give you constructive criticism.

There are several interesting things about Zombies in their mechanics -- including one thing that is unique in the game.

You glossed over all of those things, and now you're fighting the people who are pointing those things out.

I'm here to get inspired by other people's insights. Stuff like this:


You know 'em you love 'em (or alternatively hate them, given how many terrible games have had them as the central theme in recent years.) DnD does not take them anywhere special.
(...)
Just like you'd expect, really.
(...)
Can anyone say "boring" along with me? They're evil, mindless, hideous. As you'd expect, once more, they're just super generic Zombies.
(...)
Eh, they're zombies, what did you expect?
(...)
"There are Zombies. They are bad. Kill them.)


As I mentioned in the review thing, DnD Zombies are primarily 2 things.

1) Ultra-Generic
2) Boring


As far as I see it the issue isn't that the Zombies aren't special snowflakes, more that the Zombies are like all other generic fantasy zombies ever. There's nothing that stands out about them whatsoever.

It makes sense, I just personally find them quite *yawn*worthy as-is.

These are zombies. Kill them.


Nope, as generic as can be.

... it's not insightful. It's the opinion of a person who dislikes the topic and finds the topic boring.

I'm honestly curious why you decided to take the time to write about something you obviously don't like and don't find interesting.

If you want to practice your skill at monster-review, I would suggest that you make your own thread. Also, for comparison, do the early monsters which already appeared in this thread -- without re-reading this thread, of course. Also do the next monsters which MrConsideration has not yet written about, and see how your insights match up.

[UXLZ]

Is bolding MC's name absolutely necessary? Like, truly, genuinely? Every time you do it, I get the implication that you're trying to say "this is his thread, get the hell out" in an extremely passive-agressive way. Of course, that's unlikely to be your intention, but it is the message I'm receiving.


I'm honestly curious why you decided to take the time to write about something you obviously don't like and don't find interesting.


'Tis the Zombies I find uninteresting, not the act of writing about them. In the same way that I am bored by most poetry, but enjoy writing it.

I think I can see my issues though, and I'll try to rectify them the next time I write something.

Mechnically speaking, yes, the Undying rule is a fairly good and unique ability. It represents the tenacity of zombies well, but can often be hampered by the fact that two of the more popular classes in the game get free radiant damage added onto their attacks at level 11.
Also, it can irritate the hell out of your players if the Zombies get lucky with their rolls and the players are all out of (or extremely reluctant to use) their Nova damage.


I think it's less your tone, and more the fact that you're emphasizing your opinions about stuff rather than having any interesting insights into the monsters.


As an example to stimulate my improve, may I please have your insights into this particular monster (type)?

[Nifft]

Is bolding MC's name absolutely necessary? Like, truly, genuinely? Every time you do it, I get the implication that you're trying to say "this is his thread, get the hell out" in an extremely passive-agressive way. Of course, that's unlikely to be your intention, but it is the message I'm receiving. I also bolded your screen name when I used it every time previously, so you're obviously and provably wrong.


As an example to stimulate my improve, may I please have your insights into this particular monster (type)? I already posted three things that I found interesting about them.

If you want help with your monster review writing, I could probably help, but I'd prefer to do that in another thread.

[MaxWilson]

I like beholders because of their particular and unique insanity. Illithid, aboleth, neogi... are evil and alien but scheming... They won't float away gloating once they have you down, or start screaming at a minion about their treachery in the middle of pitched combat.

Beholders are quirkily unpredictable, and this can both be fun but also allow you to use them against weaker adventurers: if a beholder proves too tough it can stop and gloat, demanding penance before you leave its presence.

The random beholder eye-ray thing can tie into the insanity as well. The way I run beholders is to say that (absent coordination by a hive-mother) they are not only fractious, xenophobic, and paranoid about other beholders--they are even suspicious of themselves! In short, a sort of multiple personality disorder exists, with each segment of mind attached to an eye politicking with the mind-segments attached to other eyes to be the one which shows its importance by disposing of the intruders, and simultaneously trying to downplay the other eyes (especially Disintegration and Telekinetic eyes, because they always think they're so important and special). The beholder has enough internal magical energy to fire three eyes simultaneously, and then three more as legendary actions, which leaves four eyes out in the cold each round. The random 6 eyestalks per round which get to fire are the ones who won the internal politicking process.

In short, beholders are smart and they can play tactically if need be, but they're also bughouse crazy.

And yes, there's nothing more fun than a crashed tyrant ship with a dead hive mother and two dozen live beholders spilling out over the countryside. :)

[DireSickFish]

I think they were using BG2 as an inspiration for the lore on the spectator. I know we have 3 Beholder types already but a Beholder Mage would have been great here. Inspired from BG2 as well in the Cult of the Unseeing eye quest the beholder gives up the anti-magic cone to take up spell casting.

Perhaps it would be to similar to the Death Tyrant? I suppose it's easy enough to homebrew just slap wizard spellcasting onto it and get rid of the antimagic.

[KorvinStarmast]

If everything absolutely has to be a special snowflake, Well said. :smallcool:

[Forum Explorer]

I don't have a problem with UXLZ posting in this thread. While his style isn't identical to Mr. Consideration, he is mimicking it so that the posts feel similar enough. Kicking him out to make a new thread just creates an unnecessary split.

[Shining Wrath]

I think Mr. Consideration has given permission for others to start from Z backwards, so let's just assume it's OK until he says "No, do your own thread!".

I vote for zombies as being boring in a good way. It is similar to a template that can be applied to a corpse; use the ogre and the beholder as examples. The beholder shows how a creature with different abilities than humanoids can be zombified; it's not a strict template as such. I think that WotC clearly intends for us to look at this entry and say "But what if X became a zombie?".

So a humanoid zombie is boring; a zombie wizard that still retain the ability to wield a wand, but sporadically, is interesting. A giant zombie is just a giant, zombie; but a zombie Aararocka is Death From Above. I believe anything can be zombified, especially if you go with creation methods not involving Animate Dead and black opals; zombie puppies, zombie vultures, zombie cows, zombie trolls, ...

[MrConsideration]

I don't mind having UXLZ's posts being in this thread. I'd generally opt to space out the monsters as much as possible when I've written a few in a row (a day or so apart) but as I've just started my new job as a teacher I'm probably only going to manage to post something once a week or so, so UXLZ can keep the discussion going in the meantime! Hell, squeezing in the prep for my actual D&D session has been tough this week!

No need to argue about it guys, there's enough room on the Internet for everyone!

[smcmike]

Zombies are like rain. In small doses, it's not even worth talking about. Boring indeed. In medium doses, everything gets wet. Bleach But when it's really coming down, cities get washed away. In any case, you never really fight the rain. You just do your best to stay dry.

[UXLZ]

I see, I must have missed that.

Actually, what do you guys think are some funny/interesting ideas of zombifying certain creatures? I mean, imagine how terrifying a zombie Illithid would be. I don't have my Monster Manual so I can't post a statblock, but I might give it a shot when I have the chance. (And probably fail terribly)
I'll also likely write up another entry.

@MrConsideration: Do you have a rough idea of a posting schedule for yourself worked out? I don't want to accidentally put something up right before you're planning to.

[Tallis]

Zombie Black Dragon haunting the swamp or if you want to use traditional zombies: A necromancer animates the bodies in the necropolis but leaves them in the ground until he's ready to strike. Hundreds of zombies clawing their way out of the earth on the night of the winter solstice sounds pretty scary to me. Yes they're still minions (unless the necromancer was killed and they've now activated themselves) but with the right setting they can make a good horror story.

[Shining Wrath]

I see, I must have missed that.

Actually, what do you guys think are some funny/interesting ideas of zombifying certain creatures? I mean, imagine how terrifying a zombie Illithid would be. I don't have my Monster Manual so I can't post a statblock, but I might give it a shot when I have the chance. (And probably fail terribly)
I'll also likely write up another entry.

@MrConsideration: Do you have a rough idea of a posting schedule for yourself worked out? I don't want to accidentally put something up right before you're planning to.

I already threw out the idea of a zombie Aararocka with flight. A zombie that is faster than you are and can go over obstacles poses some challenges.

A zombie necromancer that dimly remembers how to cast Animate Dead and does so at most 1/day, 10% chance, is a terrible thing to leave in an abandoned cemetery.

A zombie bullete popping up from beneath the ground, all rotting plates and foul breath, would be scary.

A zombie Hell Hound with fire breath and fire resistance.

[UXLZ]

Didn't manage to procure the time to do another, sadly. Like the suggestions though, you two. The Zombie Necromancer in particular seems like a good way of giving them a bit of diversity without altering the core aspect of them too much.

[Ralanr]

Let's not forget zombies are rarely just all there is. Beware the necromancer.

Like that gnoll necromancer.

[MrConsideration]

Don't worry about it. If you put something up I'll just wait a day or so. If I've got a backlog, all the better. Next one should be Friday!

[Pyon]

Honestly, everything you can say about "zombies" being generic you can also say about vampires or skeleton warriors. Zombies and vampires follow a few set of "rules" to be one of those. And then every setting shoves their own things into them. The difference being in DND, vampires have a ton of powers that a lot of settings wouldn't have. Zombies are just a blank slate to add in the super powers.

For example, for any anime fans there is Jojo! Jojo's Bizarre Adventure uses zombies and vampires for it's first three parts. Both vampires and zombies have the power of cell manipulation. You could have a zombie that can control it's hair like tentacles to make grapple checks while punching your buddies. Or a zombie who can regenerate. The DM has the power!

[Ralanr]

Honestly, everything you can say about "zombies" being generic you can also say about vampires or skeleton warriors. Zombies and vampires follow a few set of "rules" to be one of those. And then every setting shoves their own things into them. The difference being in DND, vampires have a ton of powers that a lot of settings wouldn't have. Zombies are just a blank slate to add in the super powers.

For example, for any anime fans there is Jojo! Jojo's Bizarre Adventure uses zombies and vampires for it's first three parts. Both vampires and zombies have the power of cell manipulation. You could have a zombie that can control it's hair like tentacles to make grapple checks while punching your buddies. Or a zombie who can regenerate. The DM has the power!

Jojo's adventures certainly are bizarre. XD

[Pyon]

Jojo's adventures certainly are bizarre. XD

I don't want to derail the topic, but indeed they are! The creativity they take with some of their stuff is hilarious.

[NNescio]

Let's not forget zombies are rarely just all there is. Beware the necromancer.

Like that gnoll necromancer.

Make a Razorclaw Shifter Necromancer.

Nekoromancer.

[Shining Wrath]

Zombie trolls that regenerate and put themselves back together after "head shots" ...

[MrConsideration]

Blights
My players almost encountered some of these - which would have made it the first monster I've actually used in my campaign AND covered! However, they tactfully appeased the spirit of the wilderness by sacrificing images of the city to it - a crossbow and a book - to gain passage. Next time!

They're interesting elemental-type creatures, which amazes me. I think it's great to have potential low-CR enemies that are more interesting than Goblins and Kobolds. They're an innovation from 4e, I think, as a sort of monster counterpart to the Warden fluff. There is an antecedent in some 3e adventures, but Blights are yet to become iconic monsters and your players are unlikely to recognise them. This is something I like - when these twisted things emerge from the night, surrounding your player's ill-advised woodland camp, they should not be recognisable - they should be horrifying and unknowable.

The name is rubbish though. Far too generic. In my games, I'd leave them totally nameless. They are primordial nature, red in tooth and claw and branch. They don't need a name - names are for the decadent city-dwellers who must quantify and qualify and contain everything.

Art
Another great piece - it dominates half the page, giving room for a background. The foggy, sombre, brooding wood from which the Blights emerge creates a really enduring image of how an encounter with these baddies would go. The creatures are really realised and plant-like - and show great variety. Some are thorny, some are viney, and I especially like the Twig Blight's voodoo-fetish vibe.

Purpose and Tactics

They're what I like to call a bad ju-ju monster. They're a symbol that a place is bad or wrong in some way. Dependent on the tone and setting of your campaign, this can be a forest that has been corrupted by some dark magic or other actor, Mirkwood-style, or a forest that is simply hostile to the adventurers for whatever reason - in my own campaign world, there is a long-standing conflict between the spirits and beings in such places and the empire-building, resource-stripping humanoids. Their intelligence is rudimentary and most of them can't speak (Why can they speak Common but not Elvish or Druidic or whatever?) so they could probably deliver a message of some kind but are unlikely to parley. Going by the fluff, they are monstrosities not far from a form of Undead.

They have blindsense. Attack at night. Attack in places where the forest canopy is so thick that no light can pierce it. Describe their alien senses and uncanny abilities. They're fairly weak, and the minor ones are essentially 4e minions - they blast with needles or claws until a PC slaughters them. In a long-term fight, Blights will be slaughtered. Their ability to hide themselves perfectly means they make excellent ambush monsters for a grove or other (un)natural place. The Vine Blight gets a version of the Entangle spell, which can be used to allow you mobility to target casters and other characters. After those first level scraps Blights have a lot of utility as minions of Druids, Fey, Hags or even Treants. Vine Blights will last as a supporting monster for quite a while using their Entangle ability for crowd control, but eventually the DC will be trivial for most and they will be easily snuffed out.

I think you can also fluff these as an alternative creature to summon for a not-hippy Druid. I'm a big fan of Goblin Punch's 'You're doing Druids wrong!' (http://goblinpunch.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/7-myths-everyone-believes-about-druids.html)post (NSFW: pretty violent imagery, swears, your boss might be a druid and be really offended with this portrayal and Wildshape into a wolf) which informs how I would use a monster like these Blights.

Fluff
I really like the origin story for the Blights - its got a sort of fairy-tale mythic power to it. I'd be one of many possible rumours in my campaigns if I used Blights. The ideas of blood-drinking plants has a wonderful body-horror aspect, and I love the idea of a monster who sees its enemies simply as walking fertiliser for an inevitable expansion of the wilds back into the heart of civilization. You have the option to have them be minions of Gulthias, or simply a vanguard of nature, dependent on how you would like to use them. It establishes the Blight's location as an evil area of the forest, giving ideas for means of making the battlefield more dynamic: thorned plants which cause damage if approached, vines that entangle and cause difficult terrain, evil flowers with an effect like Stench or Hypnotic Pattern.

The idea of the movement of Blights and their ability to rapidly grow forest over farmland can make them a menace for almost any civilization, and elevate them to the possibility of a Big Bag, or at least the recurring minions of a Big Bad. If you take this approach, I'd homebrew some tougher Blights with a 'class-levels' approach that can use more Druid Spells and hit harder to ensure your combats remain fresh. Your Big Bad could be Gulthias, a unique vegetable vampire.

Hooks

Cartographers are baffled by a treeline that moves. Settlements that disappear. Geography that shifts with evil intent. They need a party of adventurers to uncover what force is at work.

Your players need to recover the Antler Crown, a symbol of ancient fey royalty. It was lost in the endless forests of Utangardr. Can your players recover it?

Your party Druid must prove himself worthy of mastering his power of life, death and rebirth. A Druid circle challenges her to overcome militant nature and reclaim the stake of Gulthias.

There is a Vampire in the Royal Gardens. Victims have been found exsanguinated in the orchid bushes. Drained among the dahlias. Rotting among the roses. But this Vampire cannot be Turned, or Detected by the magic of the Temple, and vampire hunters are baffled. Can your players find the monster in the mulch?

Verdict: I really like them. A highly original take on a mythic concept, and easy to adapt to almost any campaign.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm AFB at the moment, so I can't check the size and looks, but a lot of your ideas reminded me of this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4iOHPIlIQc

[Naanomi]

I like the monster but feel they limited fluff unnecessarily. I'd have liked it left as 'happens whenever bad mojo happens in the woods' not specifically tied to some specific vampire corruption story

Still fun and useful critter with a generic reluff

[Nifft]

Blights Good stuff.


The name is rubbish though. Far too generic. In my games, I'd leave them totally nameless. They are primordial nature, red in tooth and claw and branch. They don't need a name - names are for the decadent city-dwellers who must quantify and qualify and contain everything. IIRC, the previous edition monster name was "Twig Blight", which was a bit less generic. I think there were other types -- "Shrubbery Blight", "Petunia Blight", "Willow Blight", and the Epic monster "Kudzu Blight", perhaps. (Or maybe I'm just making those up.)


Also, they are printed in an alphabetized monster book. They do need a name.

It's irrelevant if that name was their own invention or was assigned to them by people who don't like them much -- which is what Blight sounds like to me, a label made by people and stuck on a thing that is disliked by people. And that's fine.

I could see Druids being ambivalent about Blights -- on the one claw, they eat people (yay); but on the other claw, they eat animals (boo). Plants eating animals is generally less Natural than the reverse.

But, the Blights are really good at keeping loggers out of the woods.

Welcome to Druid politics: the losing candidate will be eaten.

[Tallis]

Another Zombie adventure idea: An entire village has been turned to zombies. The continue whatever activities they did when they were alive and ignore intruders, but the thing that turned them all into zombies is still hidden in the town. If the adventurers disturb it then all the zombies will come to defend it. If the adventurers spend the night in town (long rest) they may also be turned.

For Blights I like the idea of nature taking back isolated settlements. Every night people disappear from that isolated town in the forest and every morning the forest moves closer. All the roads have disappeared, overgrown by the trees and plants. Wagons can't leave and there are no paths to follow. No one who leaves the town has returned.

The more I read this thread the more I want to run a horror campaign...

[UXLZ]

Yeah, I really like the blights but their fluff being tied directly to Gulthias or whatever is unfortunate. Still, not anything a liberal application of rewriting can't fix.

[JoeJ]

They're an innovation from 4e, I think, as a sort of monster counterpart to the Warden fluff. There is an antecedent in some 3e adventures, but Blights are yet to become iconic monsters and your players are unlikely to recognise them.

Their first appearance, I believe, was in the 3e adventure The Sunless Citadel, which had the Gulthias Tree being tended by a crazy druid.

[Forum Explorer]

You didn't mention the scariest part of them, how the Blights corrupt the forest into even more Blights. A blight in the forest is the start of a plague that ends in a massive army of bloodthirsty plants that rampage, destroying towns and nature alike. It's the Druid version of a zombie apocalypse and makes for an easy plothook of hunt down and destroy the source of corruption before it dooms everyone.

Which can be compounded into finding out what creating said source in the first place.