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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class The Philosopher (WIP; PEACH)



rfreixo
2015-08-05, 12:00 AM
Where does divine power come from?

From the gods, some might say. From nature, others will answer. From faith, from honor, from Hell...
Some wise men, though, say it comes from wisdom and knowledge. These men strongly believe that there's nothing really divine about the gods. After all, isn't the world full of perfectly mortal wizards doing everything a god can do? No, the "gods" are real, and powerful, but they're nothing special, really. Their power granted them followers, and worship made them blind to the truth.
But for those who look hard enough, Divinity is within reach, with no need for deities.
Philosophers dedicate their lives to knowledge in all its forms. They seek the Truth, but not the one found in books or in religious teachings - they look for it with their own eyes, through their own experience.

Class Features

Hit die: d4.
Alignment: Any.
Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier (x4 at 1st level).
Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis) and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Proficiencies: Philosophers are proficient with clubs, daggers, quarterstaves and light crossbows. They are not proficient with any kind of armor or shield.
Spells: Philosophers base their spellcasting on their Wisdom. They don't need to prepare their spells, but they know a limited number of them, chosen from both the cleric and druid spell lists. Their spellcasting is not limited by their alignment.
The philosopher Spells per Day and Spells Known progression are identical to the favored soul's.
Gnosis (Ex): Through constant contemplation and observation of the surrounding world, the philosopher develops his own knowledge system, based on logic and deep analysis. He uses his Wisdom modifier in all Knowledge skill checks instead of his Intelligence modifier.
Philosophical Path: Each philosopher follows a specific philosophical school, which will determine part of his evolution as a philosopher. Tha available schools are: cynicism, determinism, nihilism and stoicism.
The philosopher gains access to the Domain related to their school. He receives an additional spell slot per day per level to cast his domain spells. He is capable of castings these spells even if he doesn't count them among his spells known; in that case, he can only cast them from his additional slots. The Domain also grants the philosopher a special ability.
Cynicism: This philosophy teaches that happiness is achieved through living a simple life, in accordance to Nature and guided by Reason. The cynic lives an ascetic life, and rejects wealth, fame and power, as he consideres these things can only bring suffering. He not only ignores, but actively challenge laws, customs and conventions imposed by society. Because of their unconventional behavior, cynics tend to be Chaotic.
Determinism: This philosophy teaches that all events are caused by conditions that determine their results beforehand, making any other event impossible. The determinist believes that each and every event is predictable, as long as existing conditions are properly analyzed. Lawful determinists try to maintain this paradigm, while Chaotic ones seek to understand existing conditions, so they can influence their outcome.
Nihilism: This philosophy teaches that existence is meaningless. Also, no action is inherently moral or imoral; in fact, morality is nothing but a social construct. This philosophy can be frightening to some people, so the nihilists are often seen as dangerous subversives. Because of their amoral vision, nihilists tend to be Neutral, but that is not a rule. A Good nihilist may seek to give his own life meaning by helping others and doing good deeds in general, while an Evil nihilist may use the philosophy's tenets as excuses for his anti-social behavior.
Skepticism: This philosophy teaches that knowledge of truth is impossible, as nothing can be known for certain. The skeptic knows that senses (even his own) are easily fooled, and dedicates himself to questioning everything presented as true. Unlike other philosophers, the skeptic does not seek truth. His goal is simply to reveal the lies.
Stoicism: This philosophy teaches that true wisdom is obtained through control of one's own destructive emotions. The stoic believes that those who keep their emotions in check can be happy and complete even during the worst adversities. Because of their self-control and temperance, stoics tend to be Lawful, but there are exceptions.
Truth Seeker (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the philosopher's tireless dedication to the pursuit of truth grants him a +1 insight bonus on all Sense Motive checks and all saving throws against Illusion effects. This bonus increases by 1 every 4 levels after the 2nd.
Ambiguity (Ex): At 3rd level, the philosopher starts to understand that truth is subjective and that the world is not built of extremes. He can be considered to have an alignment one step away from his actual alignment for the purposes of item uses and as pre-requisites for feats or prestige classes. For example, a Lawful Neutral philosopher could choose a feat with the Evil pre-requisite as if he were Lawful Evil. This ability does not change the philosopher's actual alignment, but constant use of the selected feats or class abilities might gradually change it.
Advanced Philosophy: At 7th level, the philosopher's studies give him an ability based on his chosen school.
Cynicism - Ascetism (Ex): Ascetic life demands great physical and mental training of the cynic. The philosopher adds his Truth Seeker bonus to Listen, Spot and Survival checks.
Determinism - Prediction (Ex): Analyzing pre-existing conditions in the battlefield, the philosopher can determine the origin and form of all attacks made against him, preventing his enemies from taking advantage of his flanks or completely avoiding attacks. He receives Improved Uncanny Dodge or Evasion (player's choice).
Nihilism - Amorality (Ex): The nihilist believes there's nothing inherently moral or imoral, and behaves accordingly. If the effects of a spell or ability vary based on the target's alignment, the philosopher is considered to have the most beneficial alignment possible at the moment.
Skepticism - Nothing is True (Ex): The skeptic's experience in finding falsehoods allow him to automatically make saving throws whenever he spots an Illusion, even if he does not interact with it. Also, he adds his Truth Seeker bonus to Spot checks made to detect disguises.
Stoicism - Stoic Aura (Sup): The stoic leads by example. All allies within 30 feet of the philosopher get a +2 morale bonus to saving throws against mind-affecting spells and abilities. This ability functions only while the philosopher is alive and conscious.
Behavioral Science (Ex): At 8th level, the philosopher has learned so much about other creatures' behavior that he is capable of accurately predicting their actions. He adds his Wisdom modifier to his AC. Whenever he would lose his Dexterity bonus to AC, he also loses this benefit.
Fascinating Speech (Sup): Starting at 9th level, the philosopher draws complete attention to him when he speaks. With a standard action, the philosopher can fascinate a number of creatures equal to half his philosopher level. All targets must be able to see and hear the philosopher, and must be within 60 feet. All creatures get a Will saving throw (DC=10+1/2 the philosopher's class levels+the philosopher's Charisma modifier) to avoid the effect. Any creature that succesfully saves is immune to the Fascinating Speech of that particular philosopher for 24 hours.
If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the speech for as long as the philosopher continues to maintain it. While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on all skill checks made as reactions. Any potential threat to the target allows the target to make a new saving throw against the effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect.
As a standard action, the philosopher can make a suggestion to a creature already fascinated.
Maintaining the speech is a free action. While giving the speech, the philosopher can cast spells normally. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the philosopher's Charisma modifier +3.
Fascinating Speech is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability.
Pragmatism (Ex): At 12th level, the philosopher reaches a level of enlightenment that surpasses petty moral and ethical questions. He can be considered to have any alignment for the purposes of item uses and as pre-requisites for feats or prestige classes. For example, a Good philosopher could take levels of Assassin (a class with Evil alignment as a pre-requisite) freely. This ability does not change the philosopher's actual alignment, but constant use of the selected feats or class abilities might gradually change it.
Philosophical Speech (Sup): Starting at 13th level, the philosopher can affect people who listen to his speeches. The Philosophical Speech works like the Fascinating Speech, except when otherwise stated, but always replaces the fascinate effect. The philosopher can choose himself as a target for this ability. Philosophical Speech consumes daily uses of Fascinating Speech.
Cynicism: The cynic encourages his peers to break free from society's shackles. For a number of rounds equal to twice the philosopher's class levels, all targets act as if under the effects of the freedom of movement spell.
Determinism: The deterministic speech opens the philosopher's allies' minds, showing them that the results of their actions were already determined before they even decided to act in the first place. All targets receive the opportunity to remake any single roll and choose which result to use. This ability must be used within a number of rounds equal to half the philosopher's class levels, or it will go to waste.
Nihilism: The nihilist's bleak speech makes the listeners question their lives and their faiths. The philosopher makes a Diplomacy or Intimidate check (player's choice). The result is the save DC for the ability. All targets that fail their Will saving throw suffer 25% chance of failure when attempting to cast divine spells, and suffer -2 penalty in all saving throws against spells cast by the philosopher. Other philosophers are immune to the divine failure effect, but suffer the penalty to saving throws normally. These effects last for 1 round per philosopher level, and after this period, the targets are immune to that particular philosopher's Philosophical Speech for 24 hours.
Skepticism: The skeptic convinces the listeners that even the magic effects currently affecting them are not real. The skeptic speech works as a targeted greater dispel magic on all targets, using the philosopher's class level as the spell's caster level.
Stoicism: The stoic urges his allies and companions to press on and bravely endure the adversities. For a number of rounds equal to the philosopher's class level, all effects of the following conditions are suspended for the targets: shaken, frightened, panicked, dazed, stunned, confused, sickened, nauseated, fatigued, exhausted and dazzled. All targets become immune to these effects for the duration of the ability. If, after this period, the cause of the conditions remain active, their effects resume. In addition, all targets receive temporary hit points equal to the philosopher's class level for the same period.



Level
BAB
Fortitude
Reflex
Will
Special


1st
+0
+0
+0
+2
Gnosis, Philosophical Path


2nd
+1
+0
+0
+3
Truth Seeker +1


3rd
+1
+1
+1
+3
Ambiguity


4th
+2
+1
+1
+4



5th
+2
+1
+1
+4



6th
+3
+2
+2
+5
Truth Seeker +2


7th
+3
+2
+2
+5
Advanced Philosophy


8th
+4
+2
+2
+6
Behavioral Science


9th
+4
+3
+3
+6
Fascinating Speech


10th
+5
+3
+3
+7
Truth Seeker +3


11th
+5
+3
+3
+7



12th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8
Pragmatism


13th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8
Philosophical Speech


14th
+7/+2
+4
+4
+9
Truth Seeker +4


15th
+7/+2
+5
+5
+9



16th
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10



17th
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10



18th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11
Truth Seeker +5


19th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11



20th
+10/+5
+6
+6
+12




Philosopher's Domains:

Granted Power: The character's base land speed increases by 10 feet when he is not wearing armor and carrying only a light load.
Spells:
1: Endure Elements
2: Bear's Endurance
3: Magic Circle Against Law
4: Freedom of Movement
5: Break Enchantment
6: Repulsion
7: Word of Chaos
8: Cloak of Chaos
9: Freedom


Granted Power (Ext): Uncanny Dodge.
Spells:
1: Command
2: Augury
3: Mass Resurgence
4: Divination
5: Dominate Person
6: Warp Destiny
7: Fortunate Fate
8: True Seeing
9: Foresight


Granted Power (Sup): Once per day, as a standard action, the character can give a -1 penalty to attack and damage rolls, saving throws and skill checks to all other Lawful, Chaotic, Good or Evil creatures within 30 feet of him. Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Good and Chaotic Evil creatures suffer -2 instead. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the character's Charisma modifier (minimum 1).
Spells:
1: Doom
2: Scare
3: Confusion
4: Crushing Despair
5: Slay Living
6: Feeblemind
7: Disintegrate
8: Symbol of Insanity
9: Implosion


Granted Power (Sp): 1/day - Disguise Self; Ghost Sound; Silent Image.
Spells:
1: Entropic Shield
2: See Invisibility
3: Major Image
4: Hallucinatory Terrain
5: Baleful Polymorph
6: Project Image
7: Brilliant Blade
8: Polymorph Any Object
9: Shapechange


Granted Power (Ext): +4 to Will saving throws against mind-affecting spells and abilities.
Spells:
1: Sanctuary
2: Calm Emotions
3: Cloak of Bravery
4: Delay Death
5: Spell Resistance
6: Greater Dispel Magic
7: Aura of Vitality
8: Mind Blank
9: Mass Death Ward


Still being developed. I'm open to suggestions!

Pelican
2015-08-05, 12:06 PM
Ooh, I really like the concept here. Any potentially non-combat class is always a favorite of mine, plus it has a name that's actually meaningful outside of the context of D&D! (None of this "Hexblade" nonsense.) I also really like the abilities you've chosen so far, and I'm eager to see the spell list you come up with.

As for suggestions, a supportive ability that lets them give bonuses with successful knowledge or wisdom checks might be good. Also maybe some kind of perception bonus? Maybe just Alertness as a bonus feat...

rfreixo
2015-08-05, 05:27 PM
Their spell list is the same as the cleric's and druid's. They're supposed to do what religious types do without the need for religion - even nature worship.

Adam1949
2015-08-05, 05:34 PM
When you say the "Cleric and Druid spell-lists", I assume you're not also including the Domain spells they could get? If you were, that'd be extremely powerful...

rfreixo
2015-08-05, 05:58 PM
No, only the basic lists. Domain-only spells are out.

I still want to add some more abilities, though. Something like Pelican said. But I have no idea on how to implement them.

Business Scrub
2015-08-06, 10:20 AM
Philosophers seem (to me at least) to be pretty good at getting others to see things their way. Maybe you could throw in Skill Focus(diplomacy)? Those feats are nice-but-cheap enough to get thrown in like candy. Maybe they even add their wisdom to diplomacy?

Some ideas come to mind: Consider giving them Moment of Prescience a certain number of times per day, as if they can logic supernaturally far ahead.
Something else like: Aligned Existence: At xth level, a Philosopher is capable of understanding the root of their chosen alignment. Their attacks and smells are treated as their current alignment for the purpose of overcoming resistances and damage reduction.
Many Schemas: At xth level, and every y levels thereafter, a Philosopher truly understands the viewpoints of the world, represented as a schema. She chooses an alignment different from the one she currently is. As a free action, she may change her alignment from whatever it currently is to one of her chosen schemas. Additionally, she is not bound to an alignment restriction for an item, feat, or class provided she has a schema that would be acceptable. An alignment gained from Many Schemas can never invalidate a Philosopher's item, feat, or class. (For example, a multiclassed Philosopher/Bard may choose Lawful Neutral as a new schema, and can adopt the alignment at her choosing. Doing so does not cause her to lose bardic level or abilities.)

Just some thoughts.

Zombimode
2015-08-06, 10:33 AM
Eh, personally I was hoping for more (or any at all) philosophy related puns and in-jokes.



Many Schemas: At xth level, and every y levels thereafter, a Philosopher truly understands the viewpoints of the world, represented as a schema. She chooses an alignment different from the one she currently is. As a free action, she may change her alignment from whatever it currently is to one of her chosen schemas. Additionally, she is not bound to an alignment restriction for an item, feat, or class provided she has a schema that would be acceptable. An alignment gained from Many Schemas can never invalidate a Philosopher's item, feat, or class. (For example, a multiclassed Philosopher/Bard may choose Lawful Neutral as a new schema, and can adopt the alignment at her choosing. Doing so does not cause her to lose bardic level or abilities.)

Yeah, an extreme flexibility when it comes to alignment was one of my first thoughts as well. My thoughts went in the direction of "is always treated as having the alignment most beneficial to the situation."

Drowassaas
2015-08-06, 08:16 PM
Love it. This looks like a great class and great in game explanation of were there power comes from.
I relation to what pelican said i think the should have some variant of bardic music like
Philosophers hint(ex):
As a philosopher you have a lot of knowledge in you which alows u to do the following as a standard action
(mabye)
Ar the tip of my tonge(4 ranks klg all): make a knolege check dc =to cr of monster if u win The dc of your spells go up by +2 for your spell against that monster type( if human or outsider that subtype) for one hour…

I think this classes spells should run of of int
Sounds fun have a cookie🍪🍪

rfreixo
2015-08-07, 05:08 PM
Let's see...

Ambiguity (Ex): At 6th level, the philosopher starts to understand that truth is subjective and that the world is not built of extremes. He can be considered to have an alignment one step away from his actual alignment for the purposes of item uses and as pre-requisites for feats or prestige classes. For example, a Lawful Neutral philosopher could choose a feat with the Evil pre-requisite as if he were Lawful Evil. This ability does not change the philosopher's actual alignment, but constant use of the selected feats or class abilities might gradually change it.
Pragmatism (Ex): At 15th level, the philosopher reaches a level of enlightment that surpasses petty moral and ethical questions. He can be considered to have any alignment for the purposes of item uses and as pre-requisites for feats or prestige classes. For example, a Good philosopher could take levels of Assassin (a class with Evil alignment as a pre-requisite) freely. This ability does not change the philosopher's actual alignment, but constant use of the selected feats or class abilities might gradually change it.

So, what do you guys think?
I'm thinking about adding one more ability at higher levels, something like rebuke undead, but working only on intelligent humanoids, and limited to fascinating them. Thoughts?

Business Scrub
2015-08-07, 10:13 PM
I like those abilities! (And not just because I'm completely biased.) :smallbiggrin:

At the risk of doing too much based on one mechanic, perhaps they can turn alignment?

rfreixo
2015-08-09, 06:24 PM
Before I write this "turning" ability, I'd like some opinions on it, specially its abusability. Also, if I add an ability like the one I mentioned in my previous post, would it allow the Philosopher to take Divine Feats? That wouldn't be... appropriate, I think.
Also, what about the levels in which it gets its abilities? I'm not really sure about those...

qazzquimby
2015-08-10, 03:45 AM
I would have sworn I replied to this already, but I guess my phone ate it.

I think what would make this most interesting is researching philosophical trains of thought and beliefs that you find interesting, and trying to import them mechanically, probably in chains of abilities, like choosing cleric domains.

Off the top of my head, determinism could allow divination effects and fate manipulation, morality systems could change how alignments are found, certain belief systems could allow rebirth systems and things. It sounds like a lot of potential. I may be back to help.

The Mentalist
2015-08-10, 09:36 AM
I'd love to see something like the Chinese Room thought experiment but I'm not sure how to implement it yet. I will work on it but basically the ability to communicate with any being but only a set of scripts that must be set in advance and can be changed with a rest.

rfreixo
2015-08-11, 12:51 AM
I would have sworn I replied to this already, but I guess my phone ate it.

I think what would make this most interesting is researching philosophical trains of thought and beliefs that you find interesting, and trying to import them mechanically, probably in chains of abilities, like choosing cleric domains.

Off the top of my head, determinism could allow divination effects and fate manipulation, morality systems could change how alignments are found, certain belief systems could allow rebirth systems and things. It sounds like a lot of potential. I may be back to help.

That's good! Maybe adding those as possible ACFs. I'd need some help there, though.

qazzquimby
2015-08-11, 04:25 PM
I am abroad and not too useful right now, but if you can find a source that quickly introduces many beliefs, you will probably be laden with ideas. It might also be useful to determine what the default beliefs in d&d are. Off the top of my head, pantheon of gods, objective morality, and planar afterlives. The first and the last would be difficult to change with CFs since they can be physically observed by all, but they could be made to not affect the philosopher, with some kind of replacement instead.

rfreixo
2015-08-19, 10:14 PM
Fascinating Speech (Sup): Starting at 10th level, the philosopher draws complete attention to him when he speaks. With a standard action, the philosopher can fascinate a number of creatures equal to half his philosopher level. All targets must be able to see and hear the philosopher, and must be within 60 feet. All creatures get a Will saving throw (DC=10+1/2 the philosopher's class levels+the philosopher's Charisma modifier) to avoid the effect. Any creature that succesfully saves is immune to the Fascinating Speech of that particular philosopher for 24 hours.
If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the speech for as long as the philosopher continues to maintain it. While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on all skill checks made as reactions. Any potential threat to the target allows the target to make a new saving throw against the effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect.
As a standard action, the philosopher can make a suggestion to a creature already fascinated.
Maintaining the speech is a free action. While giving the speech, the philosopher can cast spells normally. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the philosopher's Charisma modifier +3.
Fascinating Speech is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability.



I decided to go with a fascinate effect instead of turning. Thoughts?

nonsi
2015-08-31, 11:39 AM
.
This class would be awesome if it used the Favored Soul's Spells Known table.
Divine spells are not versatile/powerful enough to be decent with the Sorc's Spells Known table.

Argothair
2015-08-31, 06:41 PM
Neat idea! I like both your concept for the Philosopher and how you've executed it so far.

One thing I noticed about your design is that you've created a very 'pure' template for your philosopher, along the lines of Aristotle or Confucius. They think hard about all kinds of stuff and are very wise, and that's about it. I see nothing in the class so far about examining and challenging social norms (ala Socrates), about drawing on the mystical powers of numbers and geometry (ala Pythagoras), about awakening people's inner potential (ala Nietzsche or Epictetus), or about enduring great discomfort and disappointment without complaint (ala Epicurus and Marcus Aurelius). Some or all of those might give you some fodder for additional class features or options.

I think the +1 at 3rd level and +2 and 7th level for Sense Motive and illusion saves is a bit weak -- even a journeyman philosopher ought to be much more than 10% better at sorting through bull**** than an untrained layperson. I would double this bonus.

I realize you're still developing the class, but the class starts to get very thin on special abilities at higher levels (15+). Maybe take some of the fluff you wrote about challenging the gods and work that in? E.g., at 5th level, a Philosopher gains -5 damage resistance to damage caused by divine spells. This ability increases by 5 points at levels 9, 13, and 17. In addition, at level 16, Philosophers learn to shield their minds against divine magic, automatically succeeding at any saves triggered by divine magic that causes or cancels mental effects. At Level 19, Philosophers achieve a transcendent level of skepticism that allows them to (once per day, at will, lasting 5 minutes) ignore auras and penalties imposed by proximity to gods and demons. Just brainstorming; I know very little about D&D 3.5.

Omnicrat
2015-08-31, 11:04 PM
I like how this is going so far, and will probably have some suggestions later on, but you might want to add WIP (meaning work in progress) to the title, since this clearly is no where near done yet.

rfreixo
2015-09-01, 09:03 AM
This class would be awesome if it used the Favored Soul's Spells Known table.
Divine spells are not versatile/powerful enough to be decent with the Sorc's Spells Known table.

I think you may be right. The philosopher shouldn't be compared to the sorcerer, after all. And when he is compared to clerics and druids, he's at a clear disadvantage. I'll update the class later with this new spells known progression. Thanks for the tip.



One thing I noticed about your design is that you've created a very 'pure' template for your philosopher, along the lines of Aristotle or Confucius. They think hard about all kinds of stuff and are very wise, and that's about it. I see nothing in the class so far about examining and challenging social norms (ala Socrates), about drawing on the mystical powers of numbers and geometry (ala Pythagoras), about awakening people's inner potential (ala Nietzsche or Epictetus), or about enduring great discomfort and disappointment without complaint (ala Epicurus and Marcus Aurelius). Some or all of those might give you some fodder for additional class features or options.

Defying the gods is kind of a challenge to D&D's social norms, isn't it? But I get what you're saying. I'm working on some class features (loosely) based on real world philosophy like qazzquimby suggested. I intend to make them ability chains that progress with levels, either improving existing abilities or granting new ones.



I like how this is going so far, and will probably have some suggestions later on, but you might want to add WIP (meaning work in progress) to the title, since this clearly is no where near done yet.

Done :smallsmile:

Omnicrat
2015-09-01, 10:36 AM
Defying the gods is kind of a challenge to D&D's social norms, isn't it? But I get what you're saying. I'm working on some class features (loosely) based on real world philosophy like qazzquimby suggested. I intend to make them ability chains that progress with levels, either improving existing abilities or granting new ones.

Would those be Pick-your-path style ability chains, everyone gets all of them, or maybe even something like Philosopher bonus feats?

rfreixo
2015-09-03, 03:35 AM
I'm thinking pick your path. Some of these might be a static bonus feat.

rfreixo
2015-09-09, 03:18 PM
Added a few abilities. Still want to add at least two more abilities at later levels, and more philosophy school options. Please let me know what you think about the new abilities and domains - if you think they are over- or underpowered, please say so!

rfreixo
2015-09-11, 06:00 PM
Update: included cynicism as a philosophical path.

nonsi
2015-09-12, 06:48 AM
.
No reason why Philosophical Path should appear anywhere higher than 1st level. Otherwise you have a Philosopher without Philosophy.
You can put Ambiguity at 2nd
Putting Pragmatism anywhere higher than 6th would come too late and probably miss the point (6th is a good place for it).
You can then put Advanced Philosophy at 5th and move Behavioral Science up to 9th, for an even spread of features. It would also be a lot more forgiving on the eyes.
Now all that's left is to find something nice for levels 14, 17 & 18 and you're done (not mandatory, but would be nice).

Lastly, regarding Fascinating Speech: if the effect is language dependent (you didn't specify), then I'd remove the HD count and make it effective vs. all non-allies in the AoE (remember that a compelling speech could influence thousands of listeners IRL – there were a few that had historical impact).

Omnicrat
2015-09-12, 08:54 AM
I think Fascinating Speech is more balanced as written. Yes, it would be nice to have it effect everyone in a crowd, but that is too powerful from a mechanical standpoint. Besides, I'm pretty sure those people Nonsi is talking about didn't effect the masses through literal magic in their words, anyway. :smalltongue:

Is there a logician domain coming? What about Humanist or Objectivist?

rfreixo
2015-09-12, 02:36 PM
.
No reason why Philosophical Path should appear anywhere higher than 1st level. Otherwise you have a Philosopher without Philosophy.
You can put Ambiguity at 2nd
Putting Pragmatism anywhere higher than 6th would come too late and probably miss the point (6th is a good place for it).
You can then put Advanced Philosophy at 5th and move Behavioral Science up to 9th, for an even spread of features. It would also be a lot more forgiving on the eyes.
Now all that's left is to find something nice for levels 14, 17 & 18 and you're done (not mandatory, but would be nice).

I put Philosophical Path later because I pictured a lower level philosopher as an apprentice, but I suppose 5 levels could be too much.
Ambiguity at 2 and Pragmatism at 6 makes them too close to each other, they should be more spread out. Maybe Ambiguity at 3 and Pragmatism at 12 would work?



Lastly, regarding Fascinating Speech: if the effect is language dependent (you didn't specify), then I'd remove the HD count and make it effective vs. all non-allies in the AoE (remember that a compelling speech could influence thousands of listeners IRL – there were a few that had historical impact).

Fascinating Speech is very similar to the bard's Fascinate bard song, only with a static save DC (for better or worse), and actually affects more people.
And I did specify it is language-dependent.



Is there a logician domain coming? What about Humanist or Objectivist?

At the moment, I'm working on Determinism and Skepticism, but more suggestions are always welcome.:smallsmile:

I'm interested in what you guys think of the Philosophical Speech, though. And if you have any ideas for more abilities related to the Philosophical Paths at later levels, I'd like to hear them! Some kind of capstone at 20th would be nice, and maybe someting else around 17th.

rfreixo
2015-09-17, 06:22 PM
Update: Added Determinism Philosophical Path, and tweaked the levels of some class features.

nonsi
2015-09-17, 10:55 PM
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Notice that Pragmatism cancels out the benefits of Advanced Philosophy for the Nihilism path. I'm not sure what you can do with it other than to remove Pragmatism altogether.

rfreixo
2015-09-17, 11:19 PM
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Notice that Pragmatism cancels out the benefits of Advanced Philosophy for the Nihilism path. I'm not sure what you can do with it other than to remove Pragmatism altogether.

It doesn't, actually. Pragmatism covers only pre-requisites for feats and classes, while the nihilist ability is about effects targeting the character.

nonsi
2015-09-18, 01:05 AM
It doesn't, actually. Pragmatism covers only pre-requisites for feats and classes, while the nihilist ability is about effects targeting the character.

Fair enough.

rfreixo
2015-09-26, 11:17 PM
Update: More ability tweaking, and Skepticism philosophical path.

rfreixo
2015-11-18, 02:20 AM
I couldn't work on this in the last couple months, but now I want to finish it! Does anyone have any further suggestions for the higher levels?

Omnicrat
2015-11-23, 01:37 PM
have to look over it again, but you could always just add some of the philosophical paths I suggested :P