Barbarian Scouting Help

[Pandyman]

Alright, so I wanted to be a scout in one of my first 5e campaigns, but i wanted to use a greatsword as my primary weapon which isn't aided by Ranger fighting styles. So I'm thinking of making a Totem Barbarian focused on survival, scouting ahead, and a little tracking. Do you guys think I should pick the eagle's sight at 6 or the wolf's tracking at 6? I'm leaning towards the sight at the moment. Also, any other suggestions to help make this a little better are welcome. I haven't had a time to read through all the feats and whatnot yet, so any help would be appreciated.

[djreynolds]

I like it. A barbarian is at home in the wild. I'd take the wolf, all the way, I just like the concept. Also no shield is cool, since this is a strength build with a great sword I'd steer away from rogue, unless your DM would allow sneak attack with javelins or hand axes at range. Toss them then charge. Rogue would give you access to expertise in perception, otherwise you may need a bump in wisdom which could be tough.

But I'd like to see the build, sounds cool.

[Pandyman]

Right now at lvl 1. I'm the variant human
16 str
14 Con
14 dex
12 wis
10, int
8 cha
after racial mods
with Great Weapon Master picking up stealth and a good background, but the overall build hasn't been completed yet.

[EvilAnagram]

That's a solid build. I would go with Eagle if you want to be a scout, wolf if you want to be a tracker.

[djreynolds]

I know it sounds crazy, but if you're going 20 levels barbarian, I would grab Martial Adept. Precision is nice to have, you can never account for bad dice and/or the same goes for the Lucky feat. These, IMHO, will help with landing with GWM feat. I'd also grab Sentinel. I'm not sure you'll need Alert as barbarian. You only get 5 feats and 1 for variant. You'll need at least 2 just for strength.

But that leaves you with a dilemma, you only have 6 feats pure barbarian.

After GWM and two bumps in strength, you'll have 3 feats left after 8th level. Are you against armor at all? Or a shield? Unless you get some magic, you're gonna have to put the rest of those ASI/feats into Con and Dex for your AC.

Using medium armor or shield can help until you build up your unarmored defense. You don't need it all the time, but you have them available.

[PoeticDwarf]

Alright, so I wanted to be a scout in one of my first 5e campaigns, but i wanted to use a greatsword as my primary weapon which isn't aided by Ranger fighting styles. So I'm thinking of making a Totem Barbarian focused on survival, scouting ahead, and a little tracking. Do you guys think I should pick the eagle's sight at 6 or the wolf's tracking at 6? I'm leaning towards the sight at the moment. Also, any other suggestions to help make this a little better are welcome. I haven't had a time to read through all the feats and whatnot yet, so any help would be appreciated.

The level 20 ranger feature is so weak. You can go for 1 fighter/other levels ranger. You can get defense and great weapon fightying style, but I'd go for eagle's sight.

[Pandyman]

The level 20 ranger feature is so weak. You can go for 1 fighter/other levels ranger. You can get defense and great weapon fightying style, but I'd go for eagle's sight.

I was originally going to make a spell-less ranger from the unearthed arcana article that used a greatsword, but rangers didn't have a fighting style for greatsword.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'd take the wolf, all the way

I'm on the fence as regards eagle/wolf, but the question has got me wondering: when it says "you can move stealthily while traveling at a normal pace", does that extend to your allies? I assume not, as that's the sort of thing that should be explicitly stated. It'd be much more useful in a party where everyone had a similar ability.

As an aside, I watched a campaign on youtube a while back with a barbarian, ranger and moon druid. Their tribal village was attacked by 'civilised' colonists, so the PCs infiltrated their town at night and... basically massacred everyone. It was fun to watch.

[djreynolds]

Right now at lvl 1. I'm the variant human
16 str
14 Con
14 dex
12 wis
10, int
8 cha
after racial mods
with Great Weapon Master picking up stealth and a good background, but the overall build hasn't been completed yet.

Don't keep me in suspense. I'm interested in the build. It sounds cool and looks cool. Much cooler than my dwarven fighter who won't die so I can roll up another character. Dwarves are tough to kill

[Pandyman]

variant human with the Outlander Background(Tribal nomad)
16 str
14 Con
14 dex
12 wis
10, int
8 cha
after racial mods
Languages: Common +2 other languages
Skills:
Perception and Nature from Barbarian(any other skills can replace nature, but nature sounds more thematically appropriate to me)
Stealth from variant human
Athletics and Survival from Background


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features/feats
Rages/rage damage


1
+2
Rage, unarmored Defense, Variant Human(Great Weapon Master)
2/+2


2
+2
Reckless, Danger Sense
2/+2


3
+2
Spirit Seeker, Totem Spirit(Bear)
3/+2


4
+2
ASI(Str +2)
3/+2


5
+3
Extra Attack, Fast Movement
3/+2


6
+3
Aspect of the Beast(Eagle)
4/+2


7
+3
Feral Instinct
4/+2


8
+3
ASI(str +2)
4/+2


9
+4
Brutal Critical(1 die)
4/+3


10
+4
Spirit Walker
4/+3


11
+4
Relentless Rage
4/+3


12
+4
ASI(Dex +2 or Con+2)
5/+3


13
+5
Brutal Critical(2 dice)
5/+3


14
+5
Totemic Attunement(Eagle)
5/+3


15
+5
Persistant Rage
5/+3


16
+5
ASI(Dex +2 or Con +2)
5/+4


17
+6
Brutal Critical(3 Dice)
6/+4


18
+6
Indomitable Might
6/+4


19
+6
ASI(Dex +2 or Con +2)
6/+4


20
+6
Primal Champion
Unlimited/+4



The reason to pick the eagle totem at 6 over the wolf is because after a little research and there are no minuses normally associated with tracking at a fast pace. When moving at a fast pace you get a -5 perception, but survival is your tracking skill. On PHB pg 183 where it mentions tracking it doesn't say anything about travel pace affecting tracking, and on PHB pg 181 where it talks about travel pace it also doesn't mention tracking. So RAW there's nothing keeping you from tracking at a fast pace, talk to your DM if you want to use Wolf and talk about maybe applying a -5 tracking penalty at a fast pace to make it on par with perception at a fast pace

So the wolf totem only gives you stealth at a normal pace, certainly something that might be covered in the errata.

14th level totem i picked up eagle because of the utility of flight, because I'm not the tank of the group so I didn't want bear and my group doesn't have enough melee for wolf to be super punishing for enemies; however, wolf and bear are also very good at this level depending on your group composition.

Basic equipment goals: You want some medium armor, or I plan on using unarmored defense because of my character's tribal theme so I may take out one of the strength ability increases or attempt to get a dex magical item. Then you can use a primary 2 handed weapon, preferably greatsword. I also plan on having a bow for flying enemies and if i take a lot of damage. A bow is a huge drop in damage, but it's expected use is for when melee isn't a viable option.

Most importantly though, you get proficiency with a musical instrument.

[djreynolds]

variant human with the Outlander Background(Tribal nomad)
16 str
14 Con
14 dex
12 wis
10, int
8 cha
after racial mods
Languages: Common +2 other languages
Skills:
Perception and Nature from Barbarian(any other skills can replace nature, but nature sounds more thematically appropriate to me)
Stealth from variant human
Athletics and Survival from Background


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features/feats
Rages/rage damage


1
+2
Rage, unarmored Defense, Variant Human(Great Weapon Master)
2/+2


2
+2
Reckless, Danger Sense
2/+2


3
+2
Spirit Seeker, Totem Spirit(Bear)
3/+2


4
+2
ASI(Str +2)
3/+2


5
+3
Extra Attack, Fast Movement
3/+2


6
+3
Aspect of the Beast(Eagle)
4/+2


7
+3
Feral Instinct
4/+2


8
+3
ASI(str +2)
4/+2


9
+4
Brutal Critical(1 die)
4/+3


10
+4
Spirit Walker
4/+3


11
+4
Relentless Rage
4/+3


12
+4
ASI(Dex +2 or Con+2)
5/+3


13
+5
Brutal Critical(2 dice)
5/+3


14
+5
Totemic Attunement(Eagle)
5/+3


15
+5
Persistant Rage
5/+3


16
+5
ASI(Dex +2 or Con +2)
5/+4


17
+6
Brutal Critical(3 Dice)
6/+4


18
+6
Indomitable Might
6/+4


19
+6
ASI(Dex +2 or Con +2)
6/+4


20
+6
Primal Champion
Unlimited/+4



The reason to pick the eagle totem at 6 over the wolf is because after a little research and there are no minuses normally associated with tracking at a fast pace. When moving at a fast pace you get a -5 perception, but survival is your tracking skill. On PHB pg 183 where it mentions tracking it doesn't say anything about travel pace affecting tracking, and on PHB pg 181 where it talks about travel pace it also doesn't mention tracking. So RAW there's nothing keeping you from tracking at a fast pace, talk to your DM if you want to use Wolf and talk about maybe applying a -5 tracking penalty at a fast pace to make it on par with perception at a fast pace

So the wolf totem only gives you stealth at a normal pace, certainly something that might be covered in the errata.

14th level totem i picked up eagle because of the utility of flight, because I'm not the tank of the group so I didn't want bear and my group doesn't have enough melee for wolf to be super punishing for enemies; however, wolf and bear are also very good at this level depending on your group composition.

Basic equipment goals: You want some medium armor, or I plan on using unarmored defense because of my character's tribal theme so I may take out one of the strength ability increases or attempt to get a dex magical item. Then you can use a primary 2 handed weapon, preferably greatsword. I also plan on having a bow for flying enemies and if i take a lot of damage. A bow is a huge drop in damage, but it's expected use is for when melee isn't a viable option.

Most importantly though, you get proficiency with a musical instrument.

Very cool, I just posted a thread in fact on strength based ranger because of this idea. The idea is really cool. Unless I know I'm going to be a the Battle of Helms Deep, I'm not wearing any armor, its heavy just thinking about it.

Also I see your guy wearing a kilt, very Braveheart in imagery

[Dimolyth]

I was originally going to make a spell-less ranger from the unearthed arcana article that used a greatsword, but rangers didn't have a fighting style for greatsword.

Choose defencive style (high AC is always useful for mellee) and go ranger 5, then dip 4 levels in fighter for GWS, Action Surge, additional battlemaster maneuvres. You will have nearly endless manneuvres (precision is most valuable in your case) and 3 (with Horde Breaker) attacks. That will maximum of 7 swings of your greatsword at 9th level! (action surged attack action with horde breaker and bonus action from great weapon master).
At early levels, great weapon style offers not that much, if you are using great weapon master feat (hitpoints of opponents will end very fast).

Though, barbarian makes interesting scout. The only flaw is some MADness (barbarians need high STR & CON, scouts need high DEX & WIS), though it is more scout + greatsword conflict, not very class-dependent thing.

[djreynolds]

Choose defencive style (high AC is always useful for mellee) and go ranger 5, then dip 4 levels in fighter for GWS, Action Surge, additional battlemaster maneuvres. You will have nearly endless manneuvres (precision is most valuable in your case) and 3 (with Horde Breaker) attacks. That will maximum of 7 swings of your greatsword at 9th level! (action surged attack action with horde breaker and bonus action from great weapon master).
At early levels, great weapon style offers not that much, if you are using great weapon master feat (hitpoints of opponents will end very fast).

Though, barbarian makes interesting scout. The only flaw is some MADness (barbarians need high STR & CON, scouts need high DEX & WIS), though it is more scout + greatsword conflict, not very class-dependent thing.

Great idea, and though MAD these are all big saves so not bad.

[Pandyman]

Choose defencive style (high AC is always useful for mellee) and go ranger 5, then dip 4 levels in fighter for GWS, Action Surge, additional battlemaster maneuvres. You will have nearly endless manneuvres (precision is most valuable in your case) and 3 (with Horde Breaker) attacks. That will maximum of 7 swings of your greatsword at 9th level! (action surged attack action with horde breaker and bonus action from great weapon master).
At early levels, great weapon style offers not that much, if you are using great weapon master feat (hitpoints of opponents will end very fast).

Though, barbarian makes interesting scout. The only flaw is some MADness (barbarians need high STR & CON, scouts need high DEX & WIS), though it is more scout + greatsword conflict, not very class-dependent thing.

Yeah, although we have a tank, I picked barbarian solely because they put out good damage. I would actually say that if you aren't the tank having resistance from most damage types as well as d12 HD you would be fine focusing on str, dex, and wisdom. I'm getting pulled into the MAD situation because I don't want to wear armor, also like you said if i went with a more dex heavy build it would help me a lot.

That build does sound really cool though, I might need to look into that and maybe consider a fighter dip or a ranger dip since getting the infinite rage uses at 20 is only nice if I can get to 20.

Also, I was very much thinking about wearing a kilt as well.

[Malifice]

I was originally going to make a spell-less ranger from the unearthed arcana article that used a greatsword, but rangers didn't have a fighting style for greatsword.

Aragorn agrees with this post.

I was considering making up a new fighting style for rangers to allow the above.

Something that allows versatile weapons to increase damage by one dice step and count as heavy weapons if beneficial for the user when used two handed.

Or something.

[Pandyman]

Right now I'm trying to look at late game and see how the fighter's 4 attacks compares to barbarian's 2 attacks with rage. It looks like Fighters tend to outdamage barbarians the further you get into the build.

[Malifice]

Right now I'm trying to look at late game and see how the fighter's 4 attacks compares to barbarian's 2 attacks with rage. It looks like Fighters tend to outdamage barbarians the further you get into the build.

You need to factor in reckless attack for crit fishing - it makes a huge difference.

A single crit from a great axe weilding half orc barbarian of 17th plus is 5d12+(rage and strength). The other great advantage of reckless attack is the advantage cancels out the -5 from GWM.

In actual play the Barbarian deals an impressive amount of damage; only surpassed by Fighters when action surging.

[Pandyman]

Do you think I should go straight barbarian or dip 4 into champion fighter for the increased crit range, great weapon fighting style, action surge, and still get all the Ability score increases?

Multiclassing bladelock could be fun.

[Malifice]

Do you think I should go straight barbarian or dip 4 into champion fighter for the increased crit range, great weapon fighting style, action surge, and still get all the Ability score increases?

A 17/3 split is better in my view. You miss a feat but gain an extra dice from brutal critical.

Battle master fighter is also pretty amazing. Use precise strike maneuver to land those GWM hits that miss.

Personally I like the 'Conan' build - a splash of Rogue (2 levels for cunning action = increased charge range, and expertise in Athletics and Perception), a splash of Fighter (4 levels for battlemaster or champion features, action surge, a bonus feat, fighting style and second wind), and the other 14 in Barbarian.

Half Orc Assassin/ Barbarian is probably what you really want though for a scouting barbarian (plus it's iconic). Darkvision, savage attacks, relentless endurance, bonus to strength - it's perfect.

Splash 3 levels into assassin (expertise in stealth and perception), 13 levels into barbarian, and 4 into Fighter (champion or BM). You'll only have four feats (and I suggest GWM, and maybe Skulker - the latter depending on your DM and his interpretation of the Hiding and Stealth rules).

Scout ahead of the party using your expertise in stealth and perception and darkvision, with your axe at the ready. Find enemy and sneak up to it. Action surge, attack recklessly, and blow superiority dice. Seeing as all attacks are auto critical hits (thanks to Assassin) it activates the bonus attack from GWM feat, giving you 5 attacks, each dealing 5d12 +3 from rage + 5 from strength + variable from weapon + 2d8 from superiority dice + 10 if you activate GWM; re-rolling 1's and 2's)

[Pandyman]

I really like the splash for assassin. I'm a little split on barb13/rogue3/fighter4 just because I lose flight. Lol, though I guess in reality that's not a huge deal.

Barb 14/rogue 3/warlock 3 sounds cool too, although the warlock dip is mainly for the dark vision and the ability to summon my weapon at will. lol, it's not nearly as optimal, but it's really cool sounding. lol

[-Jynx-]

For what it's worth regarding Eagle/Wolf totem do remember that you picked a race that doesn't have dark vision. Meaning in dark places your far sight is useless. It's hard to say whether you'll do a lot of dungeon/night time/underground delving but it makes that aspect of your scouting inert. You could either pick a new race that does have darkvision (like wood elf also for the hide in wilderness, and perception skill prof.) or take the wolf totem sniffer.

[Ardantis]

You know, Rangers do have fighting styles that don't CONFLICT with Greatweapon Fighting. They're proficient in great weapons, and you could just take Defense or Mariner fighting style and use one anyways.

[Pandyman]

For what it's worth regarding Eagle/Wolf totem do remember that you picked a race that doesn't have dark vision. Meaning in dark places your far sight is useless. It's hard to say whether you'll do a lot of dungeon/night time/underground delving but it makes that aspect of your scouting inert. You could either pick a new race that does have darkvision (like wood elf also for the hide in wilderness, and perception skill prof.) or take the wolf totem sniffer.

Even with darkvision I would still only be able to see out to 60 ft in darkness, and the wolf totem only gives stealth at normal speed.