Psychic Reformation and Incarnate

[Kezeal]

Powers:
Level 10: Incarnate; Know Direction and Location; Detect Teleportation
Level 11: Tongues, Psionic
Level 12: Detect Psionics; Elfsight; Conceal Thoughts
Level 13: Darkvision, Psionic
Level 14: Ubiquitous Vision; Danger Sense
Level 15: Detect Remote Viewing; Aura Sight; Psychic Reformation
Feats:
Level 10: Expanded Knowledge: Detect Teleportation
Level 12: Expanded Knowledge: Conceal Thoughts
Level 15: Expanded Knowledge: Aura Sight
Level 15: Expanded Knowledge: Psychic Reformation

If I were to use Incarnate to grant myself all the 11 powers listed here, and used Psychic Reformation to change the powers and feats taken from levels 10-15, would I be able to keep the Incarnate powers? Because technically I'm just removing my access to using them as a means of casting. I'm already "enchanted" permanently to have them.

[Segev]

Yes. However, if the Incarnated powers were dispelled, you'd have no means to recover them without more psychic reformation.

[Kezeal]

Yes. However, if the Incarnated powers were dispelled, you'd have no means to recover them without more psychic reformation.

Permanent powers can be dispelled?

[Segev]

Permanent powers can be dispelled?

Absolutely. Just like any other power whose duration has not elapsed. "Permanent" is dispellable. "Instantaneous" is not - which is why you can't dispel the damage from a fireball.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're using magic/psionics transparency, get a Ring of Enduring Arcana in CM to give your powers a +4 dispel DC, and use Overchannel as well.

Every time you level up you learn at least one new power, so every time you level up you can pick Psychic Reformation for your new power. Use it on anyone in your party that needs it, then use it on yourself to repick whatever you want, including replacing Psychic Reformation with whatever power you would have learned at that level.

[Troacctid]

You don't even need to know the powers originally to make them incarnate. You could manifest them from a power stone.

[Kezeal]

Hm. I thought that Incarnate somehow makes the powers be a part of the character, like racial abilities are.

[icefractal]

You don't even need to get multiple levels for this. Psychic Reformation is cheaper when you're only modifying your current level's choices, so just keep Incarnating the power you want and then PsyRef'ing it to something different. For best results, do this at a level where you get a feat, so you can set it to Expanded Knowledge and grab anything off-list as well.

Just make sure to never PsyRef away PsyRef itself. :smallwink:

[Rubik]

Just make sure to never PsyRef away PsyRef itself. :smallwink:Amen to that. Note that with the Linked Power feat, you can manifest Psychic Reformation at the start of the next round, so that long manifesting time that makes it so inconvenient to manifest during combat is no longer an issue.

[Crake]

Just make sure to never PsyRef away PsyRef itself. :smallwink:

Can't you just make a power stone of psychic reformation, then use the rules for manifesting powers from an external source? Adds an extra full round to the time taken to manifest, but with psyref's 10 minute manifesting time, that's hardly an issue. That way you don't even need to have psychic reformation itself, as long as you just use the power stone as a means to manifest it from your own power pool.

[Segev]

That depends. There is a rule somewhere that doing so expends the power stone anyway. It doesn't seem consistently enforced by all DMs, however. So if your DM enforces it...it won't work.

[Crake]

That depends. There is a rule somewhere that doing so expends the power stone anyway. It doesn't seem consistently enforced by all DMs, however. So if your DM enforces it...it won't work.

Is there? I'm actually a DM that allows that rule, but if there's a rule saying that doing so expends the power in the stone, I'd like to know where it is. I always thought that rule was a little weird, since power stones are like scrolls, but there's no rules for casting spells from scrolls like that, so it seemed a little lop sided

[Rubik]

Can't you just make a power stone of psychic reformation, then use the rules for manifesting powers from an external source? Adds an extra full round to the time taken to manifest, but with psyref's 10 minute manifesting time, that's hardly an issue. That way you don't even need to have psychic reformation itself, as long as you just use the power stone as a means to manifest it from your own power pool.CPsi is where the rules for "manifesting with your own power points" are, and it explicitly states that using your own pp to manifest wipes the stone. It does allow you to manifest using your own ML, which is the main benefit of doing so.

Unfortunately, every time you manifest from a power stone, it wipes it clean, which screws over power stones as compared to scrolls, as both items can contain multiple powers or spells, and while scrolls only expend the one spell you actually cast, a multi-powered power stone is always ruined, no matter how many powers are on it. Rule 0 aside, of course.

[Crake]

CPsi is where the rules for "manifesting with your own power points" are, and it explicitly states that using your own pp to manifest wipes the stone. It does allow you to manifest using your own ML, which is the main benefit of doing so.

Unfortunately, every time you manifest from a power stone, it wipes it clean, which screws over power stones as compared to scrolls, as both items can contain multiple powers or spells, and while scrolls only expend the one spell you actually cast, a multi-powered power stone is always ruined, no matter how many powers are on it. Rule 0 aside, of course.

I was referring to this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#manifestAnUnknownPowerFr omAnothersPowersKnown) section. It says nothing about wiping the stone, and I generally ignore CPsi for a lot of the dumb nerfs they made, like the astral construct nerf, though I suppose I could make an exception, since this rule does make sense, i guess

Edit: That said, where exactly in CPsi is the rule? I can't seem to find it

Edit-Edit: Ah ok, it's in a sidebar on page 105

[Psyren]

Hm. I thought that Incarnate somehow makes the powers be a part of the character, like racial abilities are.

No, the name is just showy. It's no different from the Permanency spell; it isn't actually making the powers "part of your flesh."

Powers and spells (and SLAs/PLAs) with permanent duration can all be dispelled or disjoined.

[Stegyre]

Unfortunately, every time you manifest from a power stone, it wipes it clean, which screws over power stones as compared to scrolls, as both items can contain multiple powers or spells, and while scrolls only expend the one spell you actually cast, a multi-powered power stone is always ruined, no matter how many powers are on it. Rule 0 aside, of course.
I don't believe this is correct. I am looking at CPsi, and I believe the relevant rule is the sidebar at the bottom of page 105. The relevant language is the last sentence: "Using a power stone in this way expends the power within the stone." (Emphasis added)

That would be the power you were manifesting, not all powers in the stone.

[Kezeal]

Now it ruined my plans of getting all Incarnate abilities and then reforming all the abilities away so I would just have all the powers all the time...

[Psyren]

Now it ruined my plans of getting all Incarnate abilities and then reforming all the abilities away so I would just have all the powers all the time...

You can have them all. Just do your best to not get dispelled :smallbiggrin:

In fact, you can use the Save Game trick to "reload" if that does happen to you, getting all your buffs back. Check my extended sig for the Psionic Tricks handbook.