5th level magical secrets suggestions?

[charlesk]

About to hit level 10 on my support bard and am not sure what to take for spells.. at all. I mainly play a support role, in the back, doing buffs and heals and crowd control and filling in wherever needed. I also have 3 warlock levels and can do some direct damage when appropriate.

Thanks for your suggestions. :)

[Flashy]

Aura of Vitality is an almost unbeatable support spell to take with magical secrets. It's third level (so you'll have loads of slots to cast it through), and lets you heal for 2d6 in a 30' radius as a bonus action every round for a minute.

[Princess]

Haste is excellent if you have a melee character in your party with good damage - it's one more attack per round for up to ten rounds, which is an excellent use of concentration if it's on your heavy hitter. Fly is conditionally very useful for sicking a melee fighter on a flying enemy or helping a ranged character stay away from enemy meleers. Both can be grabbed from the 3rd level lists of Wizards and Sorcerers, and it's one of the better mixes of potent and flexible for Lore Bards.

[charlesk]

Thanks for the replies. I do have Haste already. I have Fly in an item but only once per day.

The aura is great but I usually try to stay far away from the people who would most need it. :)

[HarrisonF]

Wall of Force is one of the best 5th level spells in the game. It has so many combat uses to divide groups in half, as well as out of combat uses for bridges and other fun stuff. This is a definite take imo.

Circle of Power is also a really nice buff if you roll that way as well. Very OP against casters.

Personally, I worry about bards with concentration since they tend to run heavy on the concentration side, so I would opt for some other non-concentration spells. I like counterspell or fireball as my level 3 options. Do you have both of those, or haste instead?

[Townopolis]

In-combat healing is (usually) a losing proposition. Unless your party uses the houserule where you take a level of exhaustion every time you drop to 0, the only in-combat healing you should use 90% of the time is Healing Word on people who have actually dropped to 0. That's it. Unless there are special circumstances, don't waste combat rounds healing anyone who already has more than 0 HP.

Out-of-combat healing, though, is very useful, and it doesn't matter if you normally hang far away from the party in combat. For out-of-combat healing, you (almost) always have the option for everyone to cluster up in a nice healing huddle.

For non-combat healing, you have 2 good options: Prayer of Healing and Aura of Vitality.

Aura uses a 3rd level slot and lets you heal 20d6 (average 70) HP total over one minute. You distribute this healing as you see fit in 2d6-sized chunks.

Prayer uses a 2nd level slot, takes 10 minutes, and heals up to 6 creatures for 2d8+CHA each. You can also cast it in a 3rd level slot (the level Aura uses) to heal up to 6 creatures for 3d8+CHA each. With a CHA of +5, this averages to 18.5 health per target.

If you have 5+ party members and damage tends to be relatively evenly distributed across the party Prayer is the better healing spell. If certain party members tend to take more damage, or if you have 4 or fewer party members, Aura is the best non-combat healing spell in the game.

[BW022]

Remember you can ritual cast any spell you know, so I would strongly look at rituals.

Rary's telepathic bond is likely a great choice for a support character. It only takes one minute and allows up to 8 people to communicate telepathically for an hour at any distance. Great in combat against intelligent foes, on stealth missions, alternate to comprehend languages, etc. Add familiars and other creatures.

Commune with Nature, contact other plane, or commune are other high level rituals which could be useful for a support bard.

If you wish to look at non-ritual spells, you might wish to look at the rarer "class ability" type spells. Find steed or find familiar. Having a special steed might be extremely helpful and you can re-cast to bring it back. If you want more combat oriented ones... look at the paladin or ranger list. Their 5th-level spells would be rare as only a 16th-level paladin or ranger would have access to them. Banishing smite or swift quiver would be great spells for a combat bard.

In none of these... look at conjure elementals or wall of stone.

[charlesk]

Some great suggestions here, thank you!

Concentration is always my bottleneck. I do have a special house-ruled feat that lets me have two concentrations going at once, but it requires making multiple saves if hit in combat. I try very hard to stay out of combat. :)

Circle of Power is interesting, didn't see that before. Though again.. I am very often not near any other characters.

[charlesk]

In-combat healing is (usually) a losing proposition. Unless your party uses the houserule where you take a level of exhaustion every time you drop to 0, the only in-combat healing you should use 90% of the time is Healing Word on people who have actually dropped to 0. That's it. Unless there are special circumstances, don't waste combat rounds healing anyone who already has more than 0 HP.


This is, incidentally, mostly what I do. We have a cleric, I am a backup healer and I fly around and get people back up when necessary with Healing Word... primary focus of course is the cleric himself. :)

[bardo]

Counterspell lets you use your reaction to prevent enemies from casting spells (60ft. range). For enemy spells over 3rd level you have to roll a Caster Ability Check, don't forget to add half your proficiency bonus from Jack of all Trades.

Conjure Woodland Beings give you 8 pixies who can cast: confusion, dancing lights, detect evil and good, detect thoughts, dispel magic, entangle, fly, phantasmal force, polymorph, sleep. They are squishy with 1HP. Their spell DC is only 12. But there are 8 of them.

Destructive Wave, deal 5d6 thunder, 5d6 radiant (or necrotic), and knock prone all the targets you select within 30ft of you. CON save for half and not prone. It's V-only but the description says you strike the ground.

[MarkTriumphant]

Remember you can ritual cast any spell you know, so I would strongly look at rituals.


Only if they are tagged as rituals.

[MaxWilson]

Counterspell lets you use your reaction to prevent enemies from casting spells (60ft. range). For enemy spells over 3rd level you have to roll a Caster Ability Check, don't forget to add half your proficiency bonus from Jack of all Trades.

Conjure Woodland Beings give you 8 pixies who can cast: confusion, dancing lights, detect evil and good, detect thoughts, dispel magic, entangle, fly, phantasmal force, polymorph, sleep. They are squishy with 1HP. Their spell DC is only 12. But there are 8 of them.

Two comments:

1.) Counterspell is terrific for high-level lore bards due to Jack of All Trades and Peerless Skill: you'll be counterspelling at d20 + 8 + d12, giving you 75% odds to dispel even a 9th level spell with your 3rd level spell. Lore bards are even better at counterspelling than Abjurors, who get only d20 + 11. Definitely consider picking that one up. (Also, you can Enhance Ability (Charisma) if you expect to be counterspelling a lot, since Counterspell is an ability check, not a save.)

2.) Even without the pixie cheese, Conjure Woodland Beings VIII can potentially give you 3 sea hags... who can form a coven... who can cast 3x Polymorph one round, Eyebite + 2x Hold Person V the next round, and 3x Lightning Bolt the third round. Not too bad for one 8th level spell. As with the pixies, it depends very much on how your DM adjudicates Conjure Woodland Beings and to what extent he lets you influence what gets summoned.

[choryukami]

Here's what I did/my plan:
6th level: Fireball and Animate Dead.
I retrained Fireball to Aura of Vitality when I got it from another source.

I was originally going to retrain AoV when I get 5th level spells to Swift Quiver but I'm a Lore Bard. Probably better for Valor Bards with maxed out Dex. I still might and just twin cast it on myself (sorcerer levels) and the Rogue/Ranger (Assassin) if that is legal. I'd need to look it up.

But I think Contagion, Create Undead, Aura of Vitality, Destructive Wave, Banishing Smite and Wish are good choices. Do a google search on A Party Without Music is Lame (Bard Guide)

[charlesk]

2.) Even without the pixie cheese, Conjure Woodland Beings VIII can potentially give you 3 sea hags... who can form a coven... who can cast 3x Polymorph one round, Eyebite + 2x Hold Person V the next round, and 3x Lightning Bolt the third round. Not too bad for one 8th level spell. As with the pixies, it depends very much on how your DM adjudicates Conjure Woodland Beings and to what extent he lets you influence what gets summoned.

Clever idea, but I just wanted to point out that the MM specifically says that sea hags that are part of a coven are CR4.

I am currently leaning towards Aura of Vitality. I kept ruling it out because I am not always near other players... but I also realize I often find myself in trouble when I myself get down HP and then have to waste actions and spells dealing with it.

[DemonSlayer6]

Typically, a Bard wants to take AoE spells, Defensive spells, and Crowd-Control spells. The best ones are:

Destructive Wave/Smite: It's a 10d6 dual-damage Con save spell, Paladin Capstone spell, as powerful as Fireball cast at the same level. Plus, it's only Verbal so you can cast it in combat (which is good since its AoE is in front of you) if you have a front-lines bard.
Fireball: 8d6 Fire damage, and unlike Destructive Wave it's able to be powered by higher spell slots. If you are not a front-lines bard, then you want this instead.
Counter spell: If you face a lot of mages, this is always helpful. And since it's only Somatic, you can cast it within silence and in combat if you take the War Caster feat.
Wall of Force: Dude, an impenetrable wall...Capture enemies in it, and we can forget about them for a while.


Your character is support, so AoE damage isn't that helpful. As such, I recommend Counter-Spell and Wall of Force. Though Haste isn't necessarily a bad support spell...if you have someone who can use it effectively.

[MaxWilson]

Here's what I did/my plan:
6th level: Fireball and Animate Dead.
I retrained Fireball to Aura of Vitality when I got it from another source.

You cannot retrain magical secrets or cantrips, only standard spells.

[MaxWilson]

Clever idea, but I just wanted to point out that the MM specifically says that sea hags that are part of a coven are CR4.

Oh. Hmmm. I must have overlooked that, oh well.


I am currently leaning towards Aura of Vitality. I kept ruling it out because I am not always near other players... but I also realize I often find myself in trouble when I myself get down HP and then have to waste actions and spells dealing with it.

When alone, Polymorph yourself into a Giant Ape and throw rocks at the threat until it goes away. :)


Destructive Wave/Smite: It's a 10d6 dual-damage Con save spell, Paladin Capstone spell, as powerful as Fireball cast at the same level. Plus, it's only Verbal so you can cast it in combat (which is good since its AoE is in front of you) if you have a front-lines bard.

The best thing about Destructive Smite is that it doesn't hit friendlies unless you want it to.