Yup, I'm a cleric alright

[Ceaon]

So for a new character I have a concept in mind of an optimistic hero who would love nothing more than to be a cleric of Good-aligned deity X.
However, for a not yet specified and possibly not-known-by-the-character reason, this deity absolutely hates the character and will not allow them to become one of their servants or give the character spells and other blessings. Mechanical: no cleric or other divine classes.

Undeterred, the character has trained in ways similar to that of a cleric and pretends to be a cleric of the deity to everyone else, performing miracles in the name of the deity and blessing the deity whenever possible, despite the very clear hatred of the deity.

My questions to the playground are thus:
- Which non-divine class (combination) can best be used to emulate a cleric?
- Which portfolio would be fun or interesting for the deity to have? Like weather --> it always rains on the character.
- Why would the deity hate the character?

[burninatortrog]

Which non-divine class (combination) can best be used to emulate a cleric?

The bard class.

[GiantOctopodes]

So for a new character I have a concept in mind of an optimistic hero who would love nothing more than to be a cleric of Good-aligned deity X.
However, for a not yet specified and possibly not-known-by-the-character reason, this deity absolutely hates the character and will not allow them to become one of their servants or give the character spells and other blessings. Mechanical: no cleric or other divine classes.

Undeterred, the character has trained in ways similar to that of a cleric and pretends to be a cleric of the deity to everyone else, performing miracles in the name of the deity and blessing the deity whenever possible, despite the very clear hatred of the deity.

My questions to the playground are thus:
- Which non-divine class (combination) can best be used to emulate a cleric?
- Which portfolio would be fun or interesting for the deity to have? Like weather --> it always rains on the character.
- Why would the deity hate the character?

Agreed on Bard being the best choice. Since you want non-divine, Druid, Ranger and Paladin are right out. You want at least some spellcasting, so that leaves Arcane Tricksters, Eldritch Knights, Warlocks, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards. Any of those *can* work, but the Bard is best because they have healing spells, can snag actual cleric spells with magical secrets, they have skills and expertise to help with their medicine, deception, and other checks to pull off the ruse, and from a fluff standpoint, it's perfect in terms of how vociferous your character is about being a Cleric of the diety.

In terms of why they hate the character, there are many possible reasons, but what pantheon are you working from? Rather than throw something generic out there, I'd love to recommend a specific connection personalized to the diety, but first it would help to know what the options are.

[Georlik]

First let me tell you that this concept sounds awesome.

Secondly, what kind of miracles do you want to perform?
Maybe you should consider taking fighter of with Acolyte bacground. Defending the weak or bringing tyrany as fits the dogma of a more battle-oriented Gods.
Other way would be to take martial class with Hermit background. Just flesh out a good Discovery which enables you to provide some kind of miracle and you are set.

I just can't agree with the Bard as it invokes more slaphappy feeling than a Cleric would.
If you insist of thaumaturgics you still have to resort to arcane classes.
Take Transmuter for your good to go miracle worker and healer.
Necromancer for a "spiritual guide" approach.
Diviner for your standard crystal-gazer.

Monk is also a good way to approach this. He can't do miracles for others, but he can teach them how to achieve miraculous feats.

Feats like Healer, Magic Adept or Inspiring Leader may also help to some extent.

[Ceaon]

In terms of why they hate the character, there are many possible reasons, but what pantheon are you working from? Rather than throw something generic out there, I'd love to recommend a specific connection personalized to the diety, but first it would help to know what the options are.

Unfortunately I have no idea which pantheon will be chosen, or even if it will be an established pantheon or a homebrew one. However, I will probably have influence if I send in this concept early as the GM will just create the necessary deity if it's needed for this concept.


Secondly, what kind of miracles do you want to perform?

Whatever will help me convince PCs and NPCs that I am actually a real cleric. Healing, divine thunder, divination, turning undead in some way...

[Ferrin33]

First let me tell you that this concept sounds awesome.

Secondly, what kind of miracles do you want to perform?
Maybe you should consider taking fighter of with Acolyte bacground. Defending the weak or bringing tyrany as fits the dogma of a more battle-oriented Gods.
Other way would be to take martial class with Hermit background. Just flesh out a good Discovery which enables you to provide some kind of miracle and you are set.

I just can't agree with the Bard as it invokes more slaphappy feeling than a Cleric would.
If you insist of thaumaturgics you still have to resort to arcane classes.
Take Transmuter for your good to go miracle worker and healer.
Necromancer for a "spiritual guide" approach.
Diviner for your standard crystal-gazer.

Monk is also a good way to approach this. He can't do miracles for others, but he can teach them how to achieve miraculous feats.

Feats like Healer, Magic Adept or Inspiring Leader may also help to some extent.

The bard isn't limited to being a comedian. A charismatic sage with oral traditions is one of the other possibilities that's completely different.

[GiantOctopodes]

The bard isn't limited to being a comedian. A charismatic sage with oral traditions is one of the other possibilities that's completely different.

Exactly this. Your Performance can be reciting scriptures, giving fiery sermons, singing dirges, hymns, or other religious works (which, thanks to minor illusion, you can harmonize with yourself, always epic), or even just prayer. It doesn't have to be where your bard walks around with a perpetual goofy grin and sings up tempo gospel in the middle of battle, while playing along on the tambourine. Of course, if they did that, it would probably explain why the deity hates them, just saying.

[Georlik]

The bard isn't limited to being a comedian. A charismatic sage with oral traditions is one of the other possibilities that's completely different.

I see your point, but i think Bard has wandered from that path in 1989.
And even prior to that he partially had to be a druid.
My intention is not to question your suggestion, but to provide options.


Whatever will help me convince PCs and NPCs that I am actually a real cleric. Healing, divine thunder, divination, turning undead in some way...

Try to figure out what level of magic is expected in the setting you are going to play in.
In low magic settings turning one substance to an other or showing feats of durability may pass for a miracle. You don't really need magic for that, just some skills and the attitude.

Lots of things are susceptible to refluff.

In the Low magic settings - Medicine knowledge, thundering voice, investigation and clubbing skeletons to death - can make up for absence of divine favour (think Aragorn).
In the Moderate magic settings I'd opt for feats. Healer, Magic Initiate, Alert and Actor sprinkled with some holy water.
High Magic settings would call for Transmutation or Necromancy school Wizard or the ever-popular Bard.

[MrStabby]

Could you be a warlock whose Patron is another being pretending to be the god that the character worships? The PC thinks their powers are divine and they come from their god.

Warlock with a splash of bard could work - bard gives you the healing spells needed for the cleric feel, expertise could be in knowledge religion for a theologian style character...


Maybe not quite fitting your style but a paladin of a cause could work. They worship a god and uphold their god's ideals. Though their god does not give them direct power they do still gain the power of their conviction.

[Sigreid]

The bard isn't limited to being a comedian. A charismatic sage with oral traditions is one of the other possibilities that's completely different.

Not just that, but there is absolutely no reason you have to leave the mechanics attached to the fluff. Fluff is just fluff. As an example, if you can convince your DM to trade the spear for a rapier as a martial weapon, a monk makes a fantastic swashbuckler.

[Joe the Rat]

As much as it would help you cover the bases, I'd stay away from the Acolyte background, or at least not with the standard feature. I'm thinking that if said deity actively hates the character, then there may be a "do not quarter" notice posted at all the temples.

An advantage to the Bard/Warlock/Sorcerer(ahem) mix options is that this steers you towards charisma - being able to persuade and bluff your way through being an actual cleric. Of course, there's also the issue of self-deception: Does the character know he or she isn't actually a cleric? That will play into some class fluff. If they're being deceived, warlock is a wonderful chassis ("The Sun God appeared to me in the form of a giant flaming bone golem..."). Or if they are self-deceiving, sorcerer gives you an "internal, natural" source of miracles (and I'd recommend wild magic for this one "...I meant to do that"). I think at least one level of bard, or magic initiate will be necessary to get cure wounds or healing word into your repertoire. Of course, you could just as easily be knowingly making pacts with beings, or working to tap native potential for the necessary "miracle" power.

As for what god... I'd pick one with a strong theme that can be captured by arcane magic: Light, Tempest, Trickery, Knowledge (really good as a diviner wizard) can all work well. Tempest and Trickery related gods strike me as being the easiest to subtly screw with the character (constant rain, perpetual bad luck), while light ("why does everything always end up on fire?") or nature ("animals hate me") would be more dangerous.

[Mjolnirbear]

Alternative to bard: favoured soul

[Daishain]

Alternative to bard: favoured soul
Ooh, come to think of it:

How's this one for an outlandish background (not for use in all settings). Character's ancestor was born of a tryst between a mortal and a demigod. This lead to the character having divine magic in his/her blood (favored soul sorcerer) The deity that the character wants to be a cleric of just happens to be the jealous and cheated upon spouse of the earlier mentioned demigod.

[Slipperychicken]

Your Cleric could be utterly confused about Deity X's teachings, and routinely gets the most basic facts wrong, to the point that the deity would be utterly offended to have such a clueless worshiper. A trickster spirit could helping the cleric out (handing him fake holy books which confirm his misconceptions about Deity X, granting him all of the normal cleric powers) as part of an elaborate effort to troll Deity X. He might have the Trickery domain, representing his unwitting conspiracy with the trickster spirit.

[Ralanr]

Thatamurgy (can't spell) is a must if you go magical.

[Slipperychicken]

Thatamurgy (can't spell) is a must if you go magical.

Thaumaturgy (Thaw - muh - tur - jee)

[Sigreid]

Could be a lot of fun picking an evil god and running around healing and preaching how he 8 all sweetness and nice., thereby embarrassing the god. Would work best with a lesser known deity.

[Ralanr]

Could be a lot of fun picking an evil god and running around healing and preaching how he 8 all sweetness and nice., thereby embarrassing the god. Would work best with a lesser known deity.

And with one who isn't about deceiving and lying.

I'd imagine deception gods would start making you their prophet if you did that in there name. Makes it easier to manipulate people.

[zinycor]

And with one who isn't about deceiving and lying.

I'd imagine deception gods would start making you their prophet if you did that in there name. Makes it easier to manipulate people.

Make it an evil war god, then behave like a hippie, and preach about how your god is all about love, happiness and sweets...

...then prepare to die a horrible death :D

[Nifft]

Choose a pacifist god, and then behave like this guy:


http://i.imgur.com/ETYmpzQ.jpg

"Pacifist CRUSH!"

"Good will towards all men PUNCH!"

"Peace and understanding KICK!"

[Ralanr]

Make it an evil war god, then behave like a hippie, and preach about how your god is all about love, happiness and sweets...

...then prepare to die a horrible death :D


Choose a pacifist god, and then behave like this guy:


http://i.imgur.com/ETYmpzQ.jpg

"Pacifist CRUSH!"

"Good will towards all men PUNCH!"

"Peace and understanding KICK!"


Yes. 100 times yes.

Also where is that from?

[Eisenheim]

Are your sure this is going to be fun for you over the course of a whole campaign? This sounds like a hilarious concept for a one-shot, or for an NPC, but I know I quickly get tired of joke based characters in extended play.

[Ziegander]

This:
Character's ancestor was born of a tryst between a mortal and a demigod. This lead to the character having divine magic in his/her blood (favored soul sorcerer) The deity that the character wants to be a cleric of just happens to be the jealous and cheated upon spouse of the earlier mentioned demigod. + This:
Your Cleric could be utterly confused about Deity X's teachings, and routinely gets the most basic facts wrong, to the point that the deity would be utterly offended to have such a clueless worshiper. A trickster spirit could helping the cleric out (handing him fake holy books which confirm his misconceptions about Deity X, granting him all of the normal cleric powers) as part of an elaborate effort to troll Deity X. He might have the Trickery domain, representing his unwitting conspiracy with the trickster spirit. = Winning.

[Nifft]

Yes. 100 times yes.

Also where is that from?

Here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Slayers_characters#Crown_Prince_Philionel_ El_Di_Seyruun

[Grey Watcher]

Depending on how silly or serious you want to play this character, one possibility is that the character is under some kind of curse/divine blacklist/whatever due to something an ancestor did (or failed to do). You know the sort of thing "You have failed me and you, and your children, and your children's children will bear the shame of it, unto the last generation" kind of thing.

As for what your ancestor did to screw up that epically, I dunno. Heck, you might even just suggest that much to the DM and let him/her decide the nature of the original offense and have it be a big, shocking reveal (or a hilarious one, depending on the mood of the campaign).

[ZenBear]

thanks to minor illusion, you can harmonize with yourself, always epic

Like this! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diU70KshcjA)

[Shining Wrath]

First: excellent character concept.

Suggestion: the god hates you because you're a fool; that is, Wisdom is your dump stat, and your comprehension of his/her teachings is pathetically wrong, to the point of heresy. Your background, then, is Sage, not Acolyte; you've got a head full of books that you're read from which you can quote whole pages verbatim while completely missing the point regarding moral and religious life. The trope of the arrogant heretic goes back at least to Dante.

As to class mechanics, Favored Soul (of some other deity) will work if your DM allows it. If not, I think Wizard or Warlock with a Magic Initiate feat to pick up Cure Wounds might work. Warlock with a Blade Pact which takes the form of your deity's favorite weapon, while your patron is actually inimical to the deity you think you serve, works.

[Ralanr]

First: excellent character concept.

Suggestion: the god hates you because you're a fool; that is, Wisdom is your dump stat, and your comprehension of his/her teachings is pathetically wrong, to the point of heresy. Your background, then, is Sage, not Acolyte; you've got a head full of books that you're read from which you can quote whole pages verbatim while completely missing the point regarding moral and religious life. The trope of the arrogant heretic goes back at least to Dante.

As to class mechanics, Favored Soul (of some other deity) will work if your DM allows it. If not, I think Wizard or Warlock with a Magic Initiate feat to pick up Cure Wounds might work. Warlock with a Blade Pact which takes the form of your deity's favorite weapon, while your patron is actually inimical to the deity you think you serve, works.

I keep forgetting that the character using favored soul doesn't have to follow, like, or even know the God that favored them.

I want to make a pacifist with the war domain, a industrialist with nature, or a philistine with knowledge now.

[Shining Wrath]

I keep forgetting that the character using favored soul doesn't have to follow, like, or even know the God that favored them.

I want to make a pacifist with the war domain, a industrialist with nature, or a philistine with knowledge now.

Once you know the pantheons you can choose from, pick the two most dissonant gods you can find. You are the Favored Soul of X while sincerely believing yourself to be the Cleric of Not-X, and this has to advance the purposes of X somehow.

I think it would be more fun if X were good, Not-X were evil, and you went around thinking you were some sort of evil badass while actually spreading goodness and light.

[Ceaon]

I am aiming for comic relief status in a serious campaign, with the emphasis slowly moving to the sadness that is someone that is unwanted/hated by their idol.

As for the favoured soul: very interesting! Throwing a second deity in the mix might also explain the first deity's hatred. Though I also like the bard idea. Bardic Inspiration as a deep-voiced sermon sounds awesome.

In any case, I was thinking a low int - as in, he gets the general leanings and ideals of his deity, but has no idea about all the specifics.

In any case, keep it coming, you guys, you are awesome!

[ZenBear]

Throwing my support at Bard or Paladin. Bard fits the bill of comedic relief and wannabe cleric, Paladin is a more serious option that better fits a serious story, IMO.

If you want to be the "comic relief slowly becoming depressed" I suggest you read up on the story of Solaire of Astora from Dark Souls (I reference that game constantly 😋) who is an out-of-place optimist in a depressing world who, towards the end of the story, has his faith and optimism tested unto breaking.

[KorvinStarmast]

Your Cleric could be utterly confused about Deity X's teachings, and routinely gets the most basic facts wrong, to the point that the deity would be utterly offended to have such a clueless worshiper. A trickster spirit could helping the cleric out (handing him fake holy books which confirm his misconceptions about Deity X, granting him all of the normal cleric powers) as part of an elaborate effort to troll Deity X. He might have the Trickery domain, representing his unwitting conspiracy with the trickster spirit. Heh, you could call this class/kit the Heretic.

The low Int seems a must for this particular character, well meaning but not all that smart.

[Ralanr]

I am aiming for comic relief status in a serious campaign, with the emphasis slowly moving to the sadness that is someone that is unwanted/hated by their idol.

As for the favoured soul: very interesting! Throwing a second deity in the mix might also explain the first deity's hatred. Though I also like the bard idea. Bardic Inspiration as a deep-voiced sermon sounds awesome.

In any case, I was thinking a low int - as in, he gets the general leanings and ideals of his deity, but has no idea about all the specifics.

In any case, keep it coming, you guys, you are awesome!

So still bard and sorcerer, since Paladins are powered by oaths and not gods.

[Nifft]

So still bard and sorcerer, since Paladins are powered by oaths and not gods.

"I swear, you guys, I'm totally a Cleric."

[ZenBear]

"I swear, you guys, I'm totally a Cleric."

Rofl 😂.....

[Ralanr]

"I swear, you guys, I'm totally a Cleric."

Rofl 😂.....

This is one of those moments where my thick skull reminds me of itself.

I don't get it.

[Ceaon]

So still bard and sorcerer, since Paladins are powered by oaths and not gods.
Textfiller

"I swear, you guys, I'm totally a Cleric."

[Ralanr]

Ahh.
Well this is embarrassing.

[tieren]

Personally I would make the God one a nature domain cleric would worship and I would instead play a druid.

Druid powers are derived from nature not deities so you can still get most of the abilities and get close to practicing the way your chosen god wants, but still be an effective other class (you could still be the healer). Definitely go land so you're more about the casting and less the wildshaping, maybe even pretend you can't wildshape.

Opens up interesting RP possibilities too if you are gaining power worshipping nature and at the same time pissing off the god of the forests....Maybe you could be from a desert circle and try to help that environment expand by supporting over grazing and deforestation in nearby territories.

[Xetheral]

It doesn't have to be where your bard walks around with a perpetual goofy grin and sings up tempo gospel in the middle of battle, while playing along on the tambourine. Of course, if they did that, it would probably explain why the deity hates them, just saying.

That would indeed explain quite a lot of animosity.


Or if they are self-deceiving, sorcerer gives you an "internal, natural" source of miracles (and I'd recommend wild magic for this one "...I meant to do that").

Wild could be fluffed as the Deity actively trying to mess up your spellcasting.

As for Favored Soul, you could still be a Favored Soul of the deity in question... just rename the Sorcerous Origin "Disfavored Soul", and fluff it as actually (if unwittingly) stealing the magic.

[Ramshack]

I agree Valor Bard would prob be your best bet at imitating a cleric. I also like the charisma synergy for deceiving or persuading other people.

As for why you're hated I thought it might be fun or interesting for you to an unknowing ancestor of the offspring of your gods chief rival. Which might bring the ire of both gods upon you lol

[rollingForInit]

Regarding the hatred, a lot could be said about cults and your character actually not doing the deity's work, but you should also consider: why does the deity simply not smite your character into oblivion?

One answer: you know how there are some people that, for completely irrational reasons, you cannot stand? They can be very decent, objectively, and you can't really put the finger on what it is, but somehow, whenever they say or do something, you just cringe. Just abysmal chemistry. But you can't really blame them, because you know they haven't done anything wrong. Perhaps that's how the deity reacts to your character. It just cannot stand the character. And because it knows that it has no objective for this dislike, there's no actual smiting or killing going on, but the deity's views might've spread to other followers, and those might pose a greater problem. And the deity might not care enough if it accidentally happened to make that storm change direction to your party's location, or if that volcano that was going to erupt pretty soon anyway (I mean what's a few tens of thousands of years to an immortal god?) just happens to erupt when your party is climbing the mountain.

[Ralanr]

Regarding the hatred, a lot could be said about cults and your character actually not doing the deity's work, but you should also consider: why does the deity simply not smite your character into oblivion?

One answer: you know how there are some people that, for completely irrational reasons, you cannot stand? They can be very decent, objectively, and you can't really put the finger on what it is, but somehow, whenever they say or do something, you just cringe. Just abysmal chemistry. But you can't really blame them, because you know they haven't done anything wrong. Perhaps that's how the deity reacts to your character. It just cannot stand the character. And because it knows that it has no objective for this dislike, there's no actual smiting or killing going on, but the deity's views might've spread to other followers, and those might pose a greater problem. And the deity might not care enough if it accidentally happened to make that storm change direction to your party's location, or if that volcano that was going to erupt pretty soon anyway (I mean what's a few tens of thousands of years to an immortal god?) just happens to erupt when your party is climbing the mountain.


That sounds a lot better than what I was planning to suggest. Irrational hatred is much more funny than oblivious desecration.

[djreynolds]

You know a thief has fast hands and along with the cunning action and the healer feat, half elf or human variant giving access to medicine skill, and expertise you could pass yourself off as a cleric early on, just out of spells. Hey I just cast my last cure wound.

I proposed a bit back, a "combat medic" who was a fighter rogue. He had heavy armor and action surge. He had shield master. He'd coming rushing in with thrown weapons and shove with the shield. Drag off his buddy and stabilize him.

This allows also a nice platform for when your god does answer you. Just 5 levels, 2 fighter and 3 thief. And he's strength based. And no one would know your not a cleric. You can just say you're prayers are not being answered is the reason for no spells. You still pray and act as the groups healer as best you can, stealing potions and medicines from merchants. The point is to look the part and earn your god's favor through mundane medicine.

[SouthpawSoldier]

I did something similar, though not identical. Fiend Patron Tomelock can mimic a Light Domain Ceric with the right spell selection. I can't seem to find the thread within my subscriptions though. Weak point is healing, which a Bard dip covers. CHA casting for both provides synergy. Heavy use of Persuasion. Looked good on paper, though I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

[Joe the Rat]

Wild could be fluffed as the Deity actively trying to mess up your spellcasting.

As for Favored Soul, you could still be a Favored Soul of the deity in question... just rename the Sorcerous Origin "Disfavored Soul", and fluff it as actually (if unwittingly) stealing the magic.

"The Accidental Ur-Priest"

[Mjolnirbear]

As a point of contention: doesn't it say in the PHB that a cleric doesn't necessarily have to have his powers come from a deity? From faith, perhaps, or the Earth, or a concept like Justice or Order? You don't need to worship a god for spells, i don't think.

A twist on the favoured soul: your Source could be an actual piece of the Deity's might. It got chipped off in some battle and attached itself to your soul as you were bring born. While you carry it around you put it at risk; because it's not attached to the god it has a finite amount of energy. The god hates you for essentially holding him hostage but can't let you die violently or risk losing this power permanently, so he hates you passionately for risking his strength but reluctantly must protect you when he can.

At any rate I'm totally adding this to the list of characters to try in the future.

[Ceaon]

As a point of contention: doesn't it say in the PHB that a cleric doesn't necessarily have to have his powers come from a deity? From faith, perhaps, or the Earth, or a concept like Justice or Order? You don't need to worship a god for spells, i don't think.

I guess this would be true in most settings, yeah. Now to aks my DM it won't be true in this one :)


A twist on the favoured soul: your Source could be an actual piece of the Deity's might. It got chipped off in some battle and attached itself to your soul as you were bring born. While you carry it around you put it at risk; because it's not attached to the god it has a finite amount of energy. The god hates you for essentially holding him hostage but can't let you die violently or risk losing this power permanently, so he hates you passionately for risking his strength but reluctantly must protect you when he can.

This is also a very cool interpretation.

[goto124]

If you're a piece of deity, why can't the deity just snatch you up?

[Nifft]

If you're a piece of deity, why can't the deity just snatch you up?

Maybe the deity can't snatch you up because you are His stolen thumbs.

[EvanescentHero]

Maybe the deity can't snatch you up because you are His stolen thumbs.

Man, that's rough. Without thumbs, what exactly is a deity supposed to sit around and twiddle all day?

[ZenBear]

Regarding the question "Why doesn't the deity just smite you into oblivion;"

Why don't deities smite everything they dislike into oblivion? If they can just smite stuff willy-nilly why do they bother with mortal agents at all?

[Ralanr]

Regarding the question "Why doesn't the deity just smite you into oblivion;"

Why don't deities smite everything they dislike into oblivion? If they can just smite stuff willy-nilly why do they bother with mortal agents at all?

They always got better things to do. Like fighting fire giants. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html)

[ZenBear]

They always got better things to do. Like fighting fire giants. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html)

Hah! Or answering collect calls from Clerics. 😂

[choryukami]

Slaphappy? I play my bard like a conman manipulator who can talk his way out of anything. He's also a sneak, a lover of magic (lore bard) and a part time necromancer (animate dead from magic secrets). He's also one of the worst PCs to fight. Order of operations: 1. Use deception to bypass combat. 2. Mind control/suggestion 3. Nuke with fireball. 4. Stab until dead. 5. Heal as necessary. 6. Animate dead.

[Ralanr]

Slaphappy? I play my bard like a conman manipulator who can talk his way out of anything. He's also a sneak, a lover of magic (lore bard) and a part time necromancer (animate dead from magic secrets). He's also one of the worst PCs to fight. Order of operations: 1. Use deception to bypass combat. 2. Mind control/suggestion 3. Nuke with fireball. 4. Stab until dead. 5. Heal as necessary. 6. Animate dead.

I love the image of a bard without instruments or poetry. It's like a cultured caster.

[Sigreid]

And with one who isn't about deceiving and lying.

I'd imagine deception gods would start making you their prophet if you did that in there name. Makes it easier to manipulate people.

If it wasn't clear I'm assuming the deluded cleric is 100% genuine in his faith and belief he's the true representative of the god. Maybe he is a cleric, but his power and protection is being provided by another god that thinks this whole thing is really funny.

[Drackolus]

I'm gonna second the paladin. Their power comes from their own commitment to an ideal. The ideal itself does not grant the paladin their power. They even use holy symbols. Arguably not really "divine" since it comes from themselves.

[MaxWilson]

Exactly this. Your Performance can be reciting scriptures, giving fiery sermons, singing dirges, hymns, or other religious works (which, thanks to minor illusion, you can harmonize with yourself, always epic), or even just prayer. It doesn't have to be where your bard walks around with a perpetual goofy grin and sings up tempo gospel in the middle of battle, while playing along on the tambourine. Of course, if they did that, it would probably explain why the deity hates them, just saying.

I blame the bard's reliance on musical instruments as Arcane Focus. If you want a non-musical bard, a good house rule would be that when you first become a bard, you can choose either instruments or orbs/staffs/crystals/wands as your arcane focus.

[Sigreid]

I blame the bard's reliance on musical instruments as Arcane Focus. If you want a non-musical bard, a good house rule would be that when you first become a bard, you can choose either instruments or orbs/staffs/crystals/wands as your arcane focus.

That's default actually. You can use a musical instrument as a focus. You can use another focus or spell component pouch just like anyone else.

[MaxWilson]

As to class mechanics, Favored Soul (of some other deity) will work if your DM allows it. If not, I think Wizard or Warlock with a Magic Initiate feat to pick up Cure Wounds might work. Warlock with a Blade Pact which takes the form of your deity's favorite weapon, while your patron is actually inimical to the deity you think you serve, works.

Magic Initiate isn't really worthwhile since you'll only be able to cast Cure Wounds once per day.

[Atalas]

thing about Magic Initiate is if you take a first level spell that's also on your class lit, you can use your normal spell slots to cast it, in addition to its own once per day. And the Pact Magic spell slots of Warlock's can be used for either class when you multi-class, so it would stand to reason you can use them for a Magic Initiate-gained spell.

[ZenBear]

thing about Magic Initiate is if you take a first level spell that's also on your class lit, you can use your normal spell slots to cast it, in addition to its own once per day. And the Pact Magic spell slots of Warlock's can be used for either class when you multi-class, so it would stand to reason you can use them for a Magic Initiate-gained spell.

There was a ruling stating that you can only use your normal spell slots to cast it if you can already cast that class's spells. So only a Cleric/Paladin/Ranger/Druid/Bard can cast Cure Wounds more than once with the Feat. A Wizard/Warlock/(Non Life Domain Favored Soul)Sorcerer can only cast it once.

[GiantOctopodes]

There was a ruling stating that you can only use your normal spell slots to cast it if you can already cast that class's spells. So only a Cleric/Paladin/Ranger/Druid/Bard can cast Cure Wounds more than once with the Feat. A Wizard/Warlock/(Non Life Domain Favored Soul)Sorcerer can only cast it once.

Which incidentally does not match the text of the RAW and makes Magic Initiate only worth it for Rangers / Bards / Sorcerers / Warlocks using it to expand their spells known (and even then, it's far, far less useful than Ritual Caster to that end). Not a ruling we use at any of my tables.

[ZenBear]

Which incidentally does not match the text of the RAW and makes Magic Initiate only worth it for Rangers / Bards / Sorcerers / Warlocks using it to expand their spells known (and even then, it's far, far less useful than Ritual Caster to that end). Not a ruling we use at any of my tables.

I don't use the ruling either, but it's there. You still benefit from it because a Fighter can never get access to Cure Wounds without it (sans multiclassing) but it doesn't get the same mileage as a spellcaster taking an additional spell from their list they don't normally have access to. Wizards, Clerics and Paladins benefit less because they can get any spell off their list anyway. All this would do is give them more cantrips (not actually a bad deal, especially for Paladins) and one extra use per long rest of the chosen spell.

[PoeticDwarf]

The bard class.

Hands off, first reply is best reply. Just bard

[djreynolds]

Hands off, first reply is best reply. Just bard

Bard does have the expertise to heal with medicine, and illusionary powers and performance to wow the crowd. This is a good character for a novel actually or short story. Check out "Erevis Cale" for inspiration.

[Deathhappens]

First: excellent character concept.

Suggestion: the god hates you because you're a fool; that is, Wisdom is your dump stat, and your comprehension of his/her teachings is pathetically wrong, to the point of heresy. Your background, then, is Sage, not Acolyte; you've got a head full of books that you're read from which you can quote whole pages verbatim while completely missing the point regarding moral and religious life. The trope of the arrogant heretic goes back at least to Dante.

As to class mechanics, Favored Soul (of some other deity) will work if your DM allows it. If not, I think Wizard or Warlock with a Magic Initiate feat to pick up Cure Wounds might work. Warlock with a Blade Pact which takes the form of your deity's favorite weapon, while your patron is actually inimical to the deity you think you serve, works.

Seconding this, with an addendum: Your character is the Favored Soul of an Evil (or at least Chaotic Neutral) deity. In Forgotten Realms terms, your character is running around preaching Lathander or possibly Ilmater's words while Mask is the one providing him power and laughing behind his back.Then when the Grand Reveal comes along, (for extra points of irony, if a bit heavy handed, have it come as the character is working ACTIVELY AGAINST hia true patron), have the Evil Deity speak to him directly and explain to him in full detail how all his "glorious victories" have done nothing but further the cause of Evil.

Although the "plucky character ia determined to earn his God's favor" would work better for a more lighthearted campaign.

[JoeJ]

There was a ruling stating that you can only use your normal spell slots to cast it if you can already cast that class's spells. So only a Cleric/Paladin/Ranger/Druid/Bard can cast Cure Wounds more than once with the Feat. A Wizard/Warlock/(Non Life Domain Favored Soul)Sorcerer can only cast it once.

Do you have a reference for that? Just based on the text in the PHB, the spell gained from Magic Initiate doesn't use slots at all. You just get one use per long rest.

[GiantOctopodes]

Do you have a reference for that? Just based on the text in the PHB, the spell gained from Magic Initiate doesn't use slots at all. You just get one use per long rest.


Check the errata:

"Magic Initiate (p. 168). The feat’s limit on casting the 1st-level spell applies only to the casting given by the feat."

My own interpretation of this would be that since it is a spell known, following this clarification and the rules for casting spells in chapter 10, you can cast it normally using your slots, just like if you were a multiclass spellcaster. This is also how we play at every table at which I am involved. However, Jeremy Crawford has "clarified" it as follows:

"If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare."

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats

Take or leave the ruling as you wish, but there it is.

[JoeJ]

Check the errata:

"Magic Initiate (p. 168). The feat’s limit on casting the 1st-level spell applies only to the casting given by the feat."

My own interpretation of this would be that since it is a spell known, following this clarification and the rules for casting spells in chapter 10, you can cast it normally using your slots, just like if you were a multiclass spellcaster. This is also how we play at every table at which I am involved. However, Jeremy Crawford has "clarified" it as follows:

"If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare."

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats

Take or leave the ruling as you wish, but there it is.

So if I'm understanding this right, in addition to the one free use per day it also counts as a spell known for use with your regular slots, provided you have any. Or, in Jeremy's version, it only counts if you pick a spell from your own class list.

Either interpretation makes sense. Your version makes the feat a significantly better deal for spellcasting classes then for non-casters. Jeremy's makes it a better deal for bards, sorcerers, warlocks, and (to a lesser extent) wizards than for other classes.

[GiantOctopodes]

So if I'm understanding this right, in addition to the one free use per day it also counts as a spell known for use with your regular slots, provided you have any. Or, in Jeremy's version, it only counts if you pick a spell from your own class list.

Either interpretation makes sense. Your version makes the feat a significantly better deal for spellcasting classes then for non-casters. Jeremy's makes it a better deal for bards, sorcerers, warlocks, and (to a lesser extent) wizards than for other classes.

emphasis mine. It doesn't really, though.

For non spellcasters, or spellcasters of a different class, getting a 1st level spell (and 2 cantrips) increases your spells known for the class in question by an infinite percentage. Previously you knew 0 spells, now you know 1. When you choose the same class you already have, you increase the spells you know by a much smaller percentage. If you already know 5 spells, it's a 20% increase. If you already know 10 spells, it's a 10% increase, etc. The feat thus gets weaker over time as it represents a proportionally smaller increase in power, much like taking Martial Adept when you're already a Battlemaster, except far worse scaling (Martial Adept will never represent 1/15th of your superiority dice, after all).

My interpretation allows you to have a 1st level spell of another class and use it as part of your spellcasting, much like taking a level in that class, except with much less gained (only one spell vs 2-3 or more, depending on the class, only 2 cantrips vs 3-4), and with only those benefits and none of the other benefits of the class. Meanwhile, it costs you much less (only a feat instead of a level). Almost like you were a dabbler in the magic of that class, or, oh, I don't know, an initiate.

His provides nearly exactly the same benefit to Paladins, Clerics, Druids, and Wizards as it does not non spellcasters (Rogues, Fighters, Monks, Barbarians). The theoretical increase in utility for Warlocks, Rangers, Sorcerers and Bards is only if they choose the class they already have, making it merely a percentage increase to their existing abilities, a way to reinforce their existing power, which is the least interesting use of the feat possible, and is inferior in all ways to them taking Ritual Caster. Instead of getting 1 more 1st level spell known and 1 extra 1st level spell slot per day, Ritual Caster gives them up to 15 extra spells known with an unlimited amount of 1st through 5th level slots. The only situation in which Magic Initiate is worthwhile to them for the extra 1st level spell known is if they've already taken Ritual Caster, and have no other feats or ASIs they want.

Non spellcasters benefit mostly from the Cantrips. Not having any previously, things like Minor Illusion suddenly open up a ton of options to them and are at will. The 1 casting of the 1st level spell once per day is a bonus. For those who are already spellcasters, 2 additional cantrips are far less likely to be so impactful, so it's a bit of a different scenario. There are still things worth snagging (like Guidance), so I'm not saying it's worthless. Just that it's not as good of a deal when used in that way as it might initially appear to be.