Team Durkula vs. Surprised High Priests: Who Wins?

[rewinn]

Durkula:
1. Recruits the Stoner priests to his cause, using staff charges to instantly awaken them as vampire-priests,
2. Spends the rest of his spell slots doing other useful things, such as summoning demons,
3. Goes to the Godsmoot, listens with ironic detachment, and asks other members of the Godsmoot to blow a few spells slots doing things that are ultimately meaningless,
4. Recharges at dusk - both himself and the other vampire-priests
5. Attacks - possibly with an edge in numbers (depending on the number of Stoners vs. the number of High priests) and likely with the element of surprise.

Who wins, and what is left of them? :smalleek:

[Quild]

There is way too many parameters that we don't know.

We don't know the level of the clerics of the Creed of Stone.
Gontor could actually be only level 10 and consider that fifth level spells are high-level ones. I don't think that higher spells that Wall of Stone were used here.
He could have casted it with higher level spell slots, but we don't know.

We don't know the level of the High Priests.
Back when Durkon was a child, Thor's High Priest couldn't cast Regenerate for Sidgi. So he was lower than 13th level.
Nergal's high priest (Malack) himself was level 12.
Veldrina, however, seems to be level 13+. The High Priest of the Twelve Gods also was at least that.

We don't know the number of High Priests presents.

I think we don't know if this is summer of winter solstice. Will the vampire clerics have enough time to get their spells backs before the end of the Godsmoot?

[Elenna]

Each insta-vampire creation uses up a charge from his staff, right? We don't know how many he can create.

[rewinn]

Each insta-vampire creation uses up a charge from his staff, right? We don't know how many he can create.


It is true that there is much we don't know. But can we assume that Durkula is highly intelligent, and may have made preparations - just as his father was before him?

Chances are pretty good that the staff is as fully charged as Malik could have made it, minus a few charges used since birthing Durkula - who has had some slack time on board for recharging (although he may have prioritized researching protection from sunlight.)

There shouldn't be all that many high priests present; after all, Veldrina is representing a whole pantheon, not just an individual deity. I suggest that there are no more pantheons than there are priests of the Stone plus their bodyguards. If Durkula puts in the time, he should be able to create a horde of at least one vamp per high priest. For extra insurance, Dukula can summon a few demons.

If Durkula were to attack during the godsmoot, what are the consequences? If it just means that the other HPs band against him, that may not be a problem so long as he achieves surprise in the first round.

Now if Redclock got an invitation, things might get interesting ...

[AvatarVecna]

And here's me, hoping it turns into a near-epic level version of Werewolf like the game here ITP.

[Kareasint]

There is no real way that even a reasonable guess could be made here. We do not have enough information about the number of Clerics or Favored Souls that are present. We do not know what precautions have been taken (spells cast, etc). We do not know if the people attending the meeting will remain after it is over.

Even with rules in place to protect the attendees and as a high level Cleric, I would go into the meeting prepared for a number of possibilities, including combat. And I would surely cast Divination first before I even entered the area.

HPoH has a limited number of thralls that he can control also. The staff itself is highly valuable. Does he want to burn all of its charges and risk being exposed without the protections that it provides? He does not have access to Malack's notes and library at the moment to allow him to create another staff.

[137beth]

No way to know given the unknown parameters. However, I don't think that that is his plan. I think he is going to try to work within the Rules, and killing all the other high priests would definitely be breaking them.

[zimmerwald1915]

There shouldn't be all that many high priests present; after all, Veldrina is representing a whole pantheon, not just an individual deity. I suggest that there are no more pantheons than there are priests of the Stone plus their bodyguards.
Minor point: the Godsmoot is "for" the clerics of the Northern Pantheon, and each god of that pantheon gets to send a representative. That the other pantheons get a representative each is merely a courtesy. So there are as many high priests at the moot as there are gods of the Northern Pantheon, minus those who didn't show up for whatever reason, plus Veldrina and her Southern counterpart (assuming he or she showed up), plus support personnel like the Creed of Stone.

[Gusion]

To add to the "no way to answer" list - 1. the level and types of guards that accompanied the priests.

2. What the evil priests would do. I highly doubt they'd join Durkon, but they might just Word of Recall home.

[dtilque]

I think we don't know if this is summer of winter solstice. Will the vampire clerics have enough time to get their spells backs before the end of the Godsmoot?

That we do know -- it's the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere. The Mechane arrived there about noon and sunset should be some 3 to 5 hours later, depending on how far north the mountain is.. But then add an hour to refresh spells.

We don't know how long the moot was expected to last. Was it only going to be for the afternoon, or further into the evening?

[rewinn]

We don't know how long the moot was expected to last. Was it only going to be for the afternoon, or further into the evening?

With #997 we now know that it is planned to be a short meeting. I had expected clerics to wrangle well into the evening, plenty of time for the Legion of Durkula to get their spells back at dusk, but if the Yeas and the Nays each get a "short" statement followed by an immediate binding vote, then it doesn't seem likely that a surprise attack is the plan.

Which is sort of a pity. With the bodyguards all tucked out of the way for the first turn or two (at least one of them would leap the balcony if needed) a horde newly-minted high-level vampire clerics and their summoned demon buddies might have lead to a good fight especially if given time to suitably buff.

But we may be getting a far more insidious form of battle: parliamentary procedure.

[Gusion]

With #997 we now know that it is planned to be a short meeting. I had expected clerics to wrangle well into the evening, plenty of time for the Legion of Durkula to get their spells back at dusk, but if the Yeas and the Nays each get a "short" statement followed by an immediate binding vote, then it doesn't seem likely that a surprise attack is the plan.

Which is sort of a pity. With the bodyguards all tucked out of the way for the first turn round or two (at least one of them would leap the balcony if needed) a horde newly-minted high-level vampire clerics and their summoned demon buddies might have lead to a good fight especially if given time to suitably buff.

But we may be getting a far more insidious form of battle: parliamentary procedure.

Fixed that for you.

Also, you're presuming all of the bodyguards don't have any effective ranged weapons, which may or may not be the case. I would expect at least a couple wizards who would be just as happy to remain at range. Dispel magic could be extremely handy in the fight, and vampires' DR doesn't work against magic. Even a maximized magic missile if cast by multiple wizards starts to add up...

[martianmister]

Did he even vampirized any of them?

[Quild]

For the records, we've seen 15 High Priests (or Favored Souls or else) so far.
Other than Veldrina, the already identified clerics are those of Hel, Loki, Heimdall, Hoder and Odin.


That we do know -- it's the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere. The Mechane arrived there about noon and sunset should be some 3 to 5 hours later, depending on how far north the mountain is.. But then add an hour to refresh spells.

We don't know how long the moot was expected to last. Was it only going to be for the afternoon, or further into the evening?

That would have been my guess, but I do we know that exactly? We're almost one year after AC's New year's eve, but there's no reason to believe it was winter I think.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The question already is assuming too much. Who says that Hel is acting alone? For all we know, she is in collusion with the other evil Northern Gods, and their High Priests and bodyguards will turn on the Good High Priests as soon as Hel makes her move, the moment the Godsmoot (and therefore the Godsmoot protection rules) is over.

GW

[dtilque]

That would have been my guess, but I do we know that exactly? We're almost one year after AC's New year's eve, but there's no reason to believe it was winter I think.

Panel 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0987.html). Definitely the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere. ETA: We don't know where the equator is, so AC/Gobbotopia could be in either hemisphere.

A number of people have been assuming that the New Year has a similar relationship to the solstice as it does in our world. There's no basis for this; the best calculations seem to be that there's still a bit over 3 weeks until the Southern New Year.

[Concept]

I'd give him zero chance. He killed one person who was a) out of spells, b) specifically not protected by the godsmoot, and c) so set up by all the wrong circumstances that it stretches believability.

[Shining Wrath]

We don't know the number of Stoners; we don't know the number of high priests although I see we've got a count of at least 15, plus their body guards.

We've seen at most 4 Stoners.

No class is stronger against undead than the cleric. We don't know the cleric levels but we know Veldrina is not unusual and she's at least 15. The bodyguards, if they be not symbolic, are of similar level; Wrecan certainly seems like he's a capable guy. Not all the priests will be fools and deplete their spells. Not all the priests will be trusting of a vampire. The same goes for the bodyguards, perhaps even more so. We don't know if most clerics have 1 bodyguard (like Veldrina) or 2 (like HPoH).

Conclusion: we don't know what would happen, but guessing based on available information the result would be utter annihilation of the vampires taking less than a minute, even given optimal preparation by HPoH and the maximum possible level of surprise given the non-idiot nature of the targets. The bodyguards are diverse classes, it seems, so there's no single solution to shut down everyone's class powers; Silence might interfere with clerics casting spells, but it's not going to bother fighters, metamagical sorcerers, rogues, and the like.

The staff may have some super-powers we don't know about; there may be dozens of Stoners to be turned into vampires; maybe the building can be brought down on everyone's head. So I can't rule out a victory by team Hel. If you ask me to pit the Team Hel we've seen against the Mooters we've seen, though, it's not even enough of a fight to grant XP to the Mooters.

[zimmerwald1915]

We've seen at most 4 Stoners.
I count six in the first panel of strip #994 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0994.html). There's Gontor, in the circle of truth, two people wearing the brown vestments and holy symbol to the left of him (from our perspective), two more to the right, and one inside the door who later gets vamped in strip #996 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0996.html).

Also, Veldrina's minimum level is 14, not 15.

Also also, where are you getting the count of 15 high priests from? In the second panel of strip #997 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0997.html), there are 11, including the high priests of Odin, Heimdall, Loki, Hoder, and Hel, plus Veldrina (so, not including the high priest of Hel, 10). There's an additional one the panel after that, and a further addition in the fourth panel. Finally, two more high priests appear in the final panel of strip #998 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html). That's 14.

[Shining Wrath]

I count six in the first panel of strip #994 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0994.html). There's Gontor, in the circle of truth, two people wearing the brown vestments and holy symbol to the left of him (from our perspective), two more to the right, and one inside the door who later gets vamped in strip #996 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0996.html).

Also, Veldrina's minimum level is 14, not 15.

Also also, where are you getting the count of 15 high priests from? In the second panel of strip #997 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0997.html), there are 11, including the high priests of Odin, Heimdall, Loki, Hoder, and Hel, plus Veldrina (so, not including the high priest of Hel, 10). There's an additional one the panel after that, and a further addition in the fourth panel. Finally, two more high priests appear in the final panel of strip #998 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html). That's 14.

Someone posted 15, I went with that. A battle of ~30 against 6 when half the 30 are optimized destroyers of the 6 is unlikely to end well for the 6. Also, I suppose the goliath with the maul could be an extra large economy size vampire, although it is unlikely he brings any spells to the battle.

I don't think the battle is likely; but unless there's something we haven't seen or even seen a hint at it would be grave folly to attack the Godsmoot. There's at least one guard in a kilt, for pity's sake; you trifle with the Scots at your extreme peril.

[Quild]

Also also, where are you getting the count of 15 high priests from? In the second panel of strip #997 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0997.html), there are 11, including the high priests of Odin, Heimdall, Loki, Hoder, and Hel, plus Veldrina (so, not including the high priest of Hel, 10). There's an additional one the panel after that, and a further addition in the fourth panel. Finally, two more high priests appear in the final panel of strip #998 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html). That's 14.

15 was including the High Priest of Hel. I was not counting opponents here.
Note that his "bodyguards" may turn against him though.

[jidasfire]

I don't know that Durkula's plan is to fight all the priests, but if it is, his best move is not direct confrontation of the priests, as even if he managed to conquer the entire Creed of Stone, they would probably still be obliterated by the high priests. I'm not sure if the newly converted vampire priests would have access to their old powers, but if they do, the smartest move, and most likely to succeed, would be waiting until dusk, sealing off the newly built temple in which they all reside, and then bringing the house down. Collapsing buildings and falling damage are painful even to priests, and surprisingly difficult to defend against. Maybe some priests could use spells to escape in some form of fashion, but it's entirely possible not all of them would be ready or survive, and with the vampires blocking the exits, they could pick off any survivors as necessary.

[littlebum2002]

I don't know that Durkula's plan is to fight all the priests, but if it is, his best move is not direct confrontation of the priests, as even if he managed to conquer the entire Creed of Stone, they would probably still be obliterated by the high priests. I'm not sure if the newly converted vampire priests would have access to their old powers, but if they do, the smartest move, and most likely to succeed, would be waiting until dusk, sealing off the newly built temple in which they all reside, and then bringing the house down. Collapsing buildings and falling damage are painful even to priests, and surprisingly difficult to defend against. Maybe some priests could use spells to escape in some form of fashion, but it's entirely possible not all of them would be ready or survive, and with the vampires blocking the exits, they could pick off any survivors as necessary.

What would killing the high priests accomplish? Vamping them would certainly be beneficial, but if you kill them all then the second most powerful cleric of each god would simply become high priest, so each god would lose a small fraction of their overall power over the world. Doesn't seem like a very good payout.

[Kareasint]

What would killing the high priests accomplish? Vamping them would certainly be beneficial, but if you kill them all then the second most powerful cleric of each god would simply become high priest, so each god would lose a small fraction of their overall power over the world. Doesn't seem like a very good payout.

Especially since it would also start an all-out crusade again Hel's brand new clergy.

[jidasfire]

What would killing the high priests accomplish? Vamping them would certainly be beneficial, but if you kill them all then the second most powerful cleric of each god would simply become high priest, so each god would lose a small fraction of their overall power over the world. Doesn't seem like a very good payout.

The question of the day was who wins a fight. I was simply answering how such a thing could be done. Seriously, I don't know what you people want out of a conversation.

[littlebum2002]

The question of the day was who wins a fight. I was simply answering how such a thing could be done. Seriously, I don't know what you people want out of a conversation.

Oh, well....ahem..good point then.

[zimmerwald1915]

15 was including the High Priest of Hel. I was not counting opponents here.
Note that his "bodyguards" may turn against him though.
And it turns out that there are 17 Northern High Priests, 18 including Hel's. Not that anyone could have known that.

For purposes of the matchup, then, the count is: 17 Northern High Priests plus Veldrina and her Southern counterpart, plus between 19 and 38 bodyguards (at least one, and at most two, per High Priest) plus Roy and possibly Belkar, v. Durkon plus at least 2 vampirized Stoners. Doesn't look like violence is Hel's plan A here.