Pathfinder: Help Making the Dragon Disciple Work

[BoutsofInsanity]

I want to make a Dragon Disciple Character and I want to optimize it the best I can. Playground, I come to you guys for assistance in making this a reality.

I am open to these three styles: Beat Stick, Full Caster, and a Caster/Beat stick switch hitter.

I have a custom two feat drain to allow my breath weapon to recharge at 1d4+1 rounds rather then the normal.

I have 15 14 14 12 12 10 for a stat array. I have access to all official Paizo stuff. What are your thoughts in turning this idea into a beast machine?

[Vhaidara]

Well, I think the most natural synergy is actually to go into it from Draconic Bloodrager instead of Sorcerer. The loss of BAB isn't nearly as bad as the loss of caster levels, and Bloodrager makes a much more synergistic baseline for a beatstick character.

[Gnaeus]

What else is in your party? A standard entry sorc/pal/DD is perfectly solid in PF. Much better than a fighter, much worse than a wizard. What are you looking at playing with. Are the other PCs high optimization types?

[BoutsofInsanity]

Unfortunately we have a massive party ranging from 6 to 9 players before the dm. It really doesn't matter what I do.

So far we have at least one off tank, an ineffectual monk, a archer ranger, ninja, wizard, and cleric that show up the most.

Most of these guys are new to the game and have very little idea on what works. So I am good to go in that instance. I am mainly looking for some really cool choices and why the ideas that come up are good.

Like why is a Sorc 1, Paladin 4, DD a good choice over Straight Sorc/DD. What makes it a great option. What can I do to take this highly fluffy badass prestige class that isn't so strong, and make it awesome?

[Vhaidara]

The Paladin suggestion is because Dragon Disciple is, ultimately, a Gish Prestige class, not a Caster Prestige class. Sorcerer 20 is stronger than Sorcerer 10/Dragon Disciple 10, because the levels of casting you lose are in no way made up for by the bonuses gained from Dragon Disciple

The purpose of the Paladin levels is Charisma synergy. Sorcerer 1/Paladin 4 net you 2 points of BAB over Sorcerer, Charisma to your saving throws, immunity to Fear and Disease, the ability to channel positive energy (out of combat healing), a Paladin spell (there are some real gems on their list at level 1), Lay on Hands (with a Mercy), and Smite Evil (aka, Charisma to hit and AC).

All of that works much better with the ability score increases you get from Dragon Disciple.

[Gnaeus]

Keledrath has it correct. Personally, I prefer Paladin 2 or 3, sorc 2 or 3, because I like the little bit of extra casting and the faster advancement of the bloodline, but its really not super important in the scheme of things.

Essentially, what you want out of a dragon disciple is a high AC tank that does good damage. Adding a martial class lets you replace your claw attacks with a 2 handed sword or other good 2 handed weapon, while using the bite attack as a secondary. The 2 really important things that paladin brings to the table are Cha to saves (allowing you to dump wisdom and dex to some extent) and the ability to use spell trigger items from the paladin list (like a cure light wounds wand, or even a bless wand given your party) and both of those are acquired by paladin 2.

What dragon disciple does for paladin is it solves the basic melee problems. Winged flight lets you remain relevant against fliers. Blindsense + blind fighting bonus feat let you find hiding enemies and fight invisible stuff. Breath weapon is fine, but way less important than just being a fighter type that has built in ways around normal melee weaknesses.

It is worth noting that the pathfinder Devs clearly play this combo. Paladin and Sorcerer are 2 classes that were the most strongly improved in the 3.5>PF transition, and Disciple was probably the most improved PRC. This combo is nearly unplayable in 3.5 in a party with any optimization, but quite passable as a melee option in PF. Very much on par with similar options like Magus.

[Corlindale]

I'm a fan of the "pure" Dragon Disciple myself, as I don't like to sacrifice too much casting. Sorceror 12/DD8 is not a bad build. You lose out on BAB, but you can pump your strength score to help compenate for that. Eventually you'll also be able to use shapeshifting to compensate for low # of attacks/round.

The last two levels of DD are not really worth it for this build, though.

If you want to do the caster/martial hybrid, it's probably still wise to focus primarily on strength. You'll need a very high strength to do well in melee with your low BAB, but you don't necessarily need an absurd Cha score to do well with magic (just focus on spell without saves and keep Cha at whatever you need to cast your spells).

It all depends on what you want. If you mostly want beatstick the aforementioned Paladin dip is probably the best option, but if you want to be able to punch stuff and still get 9th level spells in the end, you can try to lose as few caster levels as possible. Yes, it's less optimal than Sorceror 20, but it gives some cool and flavourful abilities along with some survivability boons like extra hp and natural armor.

[Psyren]

Seconding those who say Sorc 12/DD 8, or BR 10/DD 10. Either of these work very well. Be sure to pick up Magical Knack regardless of which you choose.

Another interesting option is Eldritch Scion Magus, which can also take the Draconic bloodline.

[CGNefarious]

I'm currently playing a Bloodrager base Dragon Disciple. We're only level seven, but so far it's going fairly well. I had originally started with a Sorcerer base, but for melee combat it was absolutely terrible and the DM let me switch to a Bloodrager.

If you go Bloodrager make sure you take the Primalist archetype. Rage powers are awesome and some of your bloodline powers are redundant with stuff you get from Dragon Disciple anyway. If you plan on using your natural attacks, look at the Rage Shaper archetype. Being a dragon is fun. Being a dragon whose claws deal 6d6 damage is even more fun.