Wands, Wands, and More Wands! Help!

[LoyalPaladin]

Hello Everybody,
I'm about to start playing a 3.5 campaign with access to Pathfinder feats, classes, and some spells. I'm playing a backported Witch who needs to buy a boatload of wands.

Magic isn't my strong suit, but I've got 20,000 gp to blow on wands. Any help is appreciated!

I'm also really desperate for a Pathfinder version of Spellforge.










Prestidigitation
Caltrops
Candlelight



Cold Orb, Lesser
Electric Orb, Lesser
Magic Missile
Orb of Sound, Lesser
Shocking Grasp

Nerveskitter
Mage Armor

Shivering Touch, Lesser

Inflict Light Wounds

Endure Elements
Benign Transposition
Alarm
Disguise Self
Distract Assailant
Low-Light Vision



Melf's Acid Arrow
Scorching Ray


Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Eagle's Splendor
Fox's Cunning
Owl's Wisdom
Snake's Swiftness

Blindness/Deafness
Ray of Stupidity
Tasha's Hideous Laughter

False Life

Knock
Darkvision
Alter Self
Arcane Lock
Baleful Transposition
Blindsight
Force Ladder
Scent
See Invisibility
Spider Climb
Web











Protection From Positive Energy











Freedom of Movement

[BowStreetRunner]

I played in a game a while back where my character had an item creation feat and the DM allowed me to start with a bunch of items already crafted. The cost savings was huge. Is there any chance your character can craft the wands, in which case 20k would go a lot further.

Are you planning on investing any ranks in Use Magic Device? Or are you just going to be using wands with spells from the Witch spell list?

If possible, I would highly recommend an Eternal Wand for certain low-level spells that you are likely to use regularly. It's in the Magic Item Compendium if this source is available to you.

[LoyalPaladin]

I played in a game a while back where my character had an item creation feat and the DM allowed me to start with a bunch of items already crafted. The cost savings was huge. Is there any chance your character can craft the wands, in which case 20k would go a lot further.

Are you planning on investing any ranks in Use Magic Device? Or are you just going to be using wands with spells from the Witch spell list?

If possible, I would highly recommend an Eternal Wand for certain low-level spells that you are likely to use regularly. It's in the Magic Item Compendium if this source is available to you.
Hmmm. 10th level, I'm open to be able to craft them, but EXP is really important. I'm not great at the whole crafting thing. Would it basically cut my costs in half?

I am maxing UMD. I'll use these for extra spells and spells I don't have.

All sources are available to me!

[KingSmitty]

you need a caster level of 5 to get the feat to craft them, but for sure get the best wand of magic missile you can get and never need another weapon period. spend the rest on identify wands, wands of healing, hold person, and so forth (mainly utility spells).

[Andezzar]

you need a caster level of 5 to get the feat to craft them, but for sure get the best wand of magic missile you can get and never need another weapon period. spend the rest on identify wands, wands of healing, hold person, and so forth (mainly utility spells).Magic missile is not on the Witch's spell list

[marphod]

Crafting wands will basically save you half the gold cost, assuming they aren't using expensive material components.

Check if you are using 3.5 or PF item creation rules. There is no XP cost in PF.

---

Are the wands for spells on the Witch spell list or for other spells?

If they're on the witch class list, you can learn them and make the wands. If not, someone else in the party might be able to help out, but probably not. Remember, the Witch can learn more spells than the ones initially granted to you (well, your familiar can learn more spells).

As your Familiar makes the Spellcraft check to learn spells, not you, you may need to do more than simply max your Spellcraft ranks. Consider finding ways to up your Familiar's Int (getting it a Crown of Intelligence?) or give it bonuses to skill checks. Don't forget that you can use Aid Another to help the Familiar on this, as well.

The Sage familiar Archetype is awesome for this (although at high levels, your familiar may be smarter than you -- its Int is 5 + ECL). On the other hand, the Sage familiar uses its own skill ranks, rather than the Master's.

[NevinPL]

Maybe instead using it all on a a lot of wands, buy less, and improve them, their usage with things mentioned here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431783-Wand-improvement
?

[LoyalPaladin]

Crafting wands will basically save you half the gold cost, assuming they aren't using expensive material components.

Check if you are using 3.5 or PF item creation rules. There is no XP cost in PF.
My DM just okay'd me to get this done, so long as the spells are on the witch spell list.

No XP cost.


Are the wands for spells on the Witch spell list or for other spells?

If they're on the witch class list, you can learn them and make the wands. If not, someone else in the party might be able to help out, but probably not. Remember, the Witch can learn more spells than the ones initially granted to you (well, your familiar can learn more spells).
I'm looking to expand my list of castable spells, so I'd like to get spells for tons of different lists as well. Like I said, I've got 20k to spend. We have an undead party member, so I'd like to get some things to help him (un)live too.



Maybe instead using it all on a a lot of wands, buy less, and improve them, their usage with things mentioned here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431783-Wand-improvement
?
I'm really just looking to expand my daily utility. For example, I'd prefer not to memorize identify. So I'll get a wand of identify. Nerveskitter is a good example too.

[BowStreetRunner]

I'm really just looking to expand my daily utility. For example, I'd prefer not to memorize identify. So I'll get a wand of identify. Nerveskitter is a good example too.

You should get a wand of Knock.

[Yogibear41]

Look into wand chambers from Dungeonscape, for 100gp you can have a wand inside of a weapon you are using and activate it without having to put the weapon down. Generally as a caster you probably won't be running around carrying a greatsword or anything, but the additional option is nice to have in my opinion. It can go on shields as well, such as a mithril buckler.

[marphod]

It [a wand chamber] can go on shields as well, such as a mithril buckler.

Yes, but probably not.

You can't shield bash with a buckler -- can't use as a weapon, so no wand chamber (which goes on weapons). Buckler-Axe or a Light Shield and it is an option.

[Yogibear41]

It specifically says in the book you can put it on shields.

Page 34

[NevinPL]

I'm really just looking to expand my daily utility. For example, I'd prefer not to memorize identify. So I'll get a wand of identify. Nerveskitter is a good example too.
Then the mentioned eternal wands, or other things with charges per day, are the way to go.

[LoyalPaladin]

You should get a wand of Knock.
That is a perfect spell!


Look into wand chambers from Dungeonscape, for 100gp you can have a wand inside of a weapon you are using and activate it without having to put the weapon down. Generally as a caster you probably won't be running around carrying a greatsword or anything, but the additional option is nice to have in my opinion. It can go on shields as well, such as a mithril buckler.
Unfortunately, witches are pretty much proficient with nothing. I am proficient with magic, though! Haha.


Then the mentioned eternal wands, or other things with charges per day, are the way to go.
Yeah, I am picking up some charge wands and some eternal wands.

[pwcsponson]

Hmmm. 10th level, I'm open to be able to craft them, but EXP is really important. I'm not great at the whole crafting thing. Would it basically cut my costs in half?

I am maxing UMD. I'll use these for extra spells and spells I don't have.

All sources are available to me!

I don't know the witch's spell list. But it doesn't matter, wands are great for spells you can't get anyway, especially if you practically auto succeed UMD checks.

Wands of...
Shivering Touch (3d6 dex damage on a touch attack) (Frostburn) (3rd level)
Lesser Vigor (Fast healing 1 for 11 rounds... guaranteed, buy multiple!) (Spell Compendium) (1st level, divine)
Summon Monster I/Summon Undead I (Trap finding, 1st level fiendish spiders can shoot webs as a Net, but at 50ft) (PHB, Spell Compendium) (1st level)
Trapsmith's Version of Haste (Haste... as a level 1 spell, thus the cheapest wand) (Dungeonscape) (1st level)
Celerity (as an immediate action, gain a standard action!) (PHB2) (4th level)
Lesser Celerity (as an immediate action, gain a move action) (PHB2) (2nd level)
Fell Drain Metamagic Sonic Snap (Deals 1 damage, fort save or deafened, and bestows 1 negative level no save) (Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium) (1st level)
OR
Fell Drain Metamagic Magic Missile (Same as above, but get a wand with a higher caster level so you can plink multiple enemies per charge) (2nd lvl)
Charm Person (They gotta fail a save sometime... but at 10th level... skippable) (1st level)
Shatter (Blow things up... for cheap!) (2nd level)
Grease (Force balance checks, flat footedness, disarm people, be a greased pig in a grapple) (1st level)
Glitterdust (Reveals invisible enemies in aoe, -40 to hide checks) (1st level)
Nerveskitter (Immediate action, gain +5 initiative) (Spell Compendium) (1st level)

Eternal Wands of...
Fly (Moving in 3 dimensions is infinitely valuable) (3rd level)
Invisibility (So is being hard to find) (2nd level)
Knock (2/day knock is enough for most things). (2nd level)
Benign Transposition (Swap places with ally, use with Summon Monster) (Spell Compendium) (1st level)
Stone Bones (+ac for your undead buddy) (Spell Compendium) (I forget)
Dark Way (make a force bridge facing any direction or orientation... ergo cheap 2nd level Force Wall) (Spell Compendium) (2nd level)
Heroics (Gain a fighter feat, like martial study from ToB (do it twice and you can get martial stance for Iron Heart Surge)) (Spell Compendium) (2nd level)


Dumb wand tricks:
Spend a feat on Quick Draw. Buy daggers/saps, put Wand Chambers in them (Dungeonscape). Tie them with a string to your belt. You can now draw a wand as a free action, and sheathe them as a move action, or drop them as a free action. Buy two gauntlets, Wand Chamber them. You now have two undisarmable wands, at ready, forever, plus your dagger drawing shenanigans. Want more? Take a quarter staff too, you can Wand Chamber each end, and hold the staff in a gauntleted hand. Now you have 4 wands at the ready (2x gauntlets, 2x staff), with a hand free to draw any of your dumb daggers.

Have a Wand of Nerveskitter in a Gauntleted Hand, so you'll always have a +5 bonus to initiative when you want. Put Celerity/Lesser Celerity in the other, for a Standard/Move action whenever, as well. If you take a quarter staff, put Invisibility in one end, and Fly in the other.

That covers a great deal of your defensive options. Take a Ring of Counterspelling (DMG), put spells in the rings and spit them out as a Dispel Magic, if you're so inclined. For Wand Chambered Daggers, put Shivering Touch, Fell Drain Spells, Grease, Glitterdust, Benign Transposition, Heroics, Shatter. Everything else can be drawn as a move action due to how situational they are.

Congrats, now you're a walking porcupine of spell trigger items.

[Sagetim]

Looks like everyone has covered some of the basic wand suggestions. I would suggest knowing certain spells as witch, and maybe running an elan witch (for immortality). With Youthful Appearance (witch 1) and Lesser Age Resistance (witch 2?), Age Resistance (witch 4?), and Greater Age Resistance (witch 6), you can do a lot of shenanigans by being really really old. Youthful appearance will make you look young again, while Lesser to Greater Age Resistance will negate various levels of aging penalties.

As for Eternal Wands...you might want some like Cure Light Wounds, Negative Energy Ray, Contagion, Bestow Curse, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, and Fireball. While some of these are definately not on the Witch list, they're still useful spells to have a few uses per day of (especially fireball. Mmmmmm, fireball).

Hexes are going to be some of your best abilities though, and Healing Hex can go a long way if you have masses of living minions that need fixing between combats. Slumber, if you can get the target to fail it's will save, is a great hex because it's a sleep effect that's not limited by hit dice. And if you want to go Elan Witch immortal route, you'll probably want the water lung hex as an option for hiding from villagers and getting your nap on safely at the bottom of a lake or what have you.

The Cauldron Hex can be super useful too, since you can pick it up at 1st level and it gives you Brew Potion as a feat. That said, potions can't be made use per day, and this is talking about wands.

[Yogibear41]

Unfortunately, witches are pretty much proficient with nothing. I am proficient with magic, though! Haha.



The main benefit would be to say have a Wand in your right hand, a wand in your left hand, and a third wand attached to your mithril buckler, thereby allowing you to have 3 wands "held" at once. Might save you some time in combat. Or you could even leave a hand or two open for spell casting and just use the one that is in your shield with two free hands ready to draw another wand if need be.

You don't have to be proficient with the shield. its ACP and ASF are both 0

[Ferronach]

If you don't have an item with water breathing, it might be worth getting a cheap wand just in case.
I know it isn't a wand but the Necklace of Fireballs (MIC?) is amazingly inexpensive XD and if you choose the right beads it can pack a nice punch.

Other wands I have seen used to good ends are ray spells and "Damage over time" spells.
Maybe a wand of mage armour and one of bless.
Elemental resistance wands are also good ideas.

For your undead friend, a wand of inflict light/mod wounds should function like a cure IIRC

[marphod]

Looks like everyone has covered some of the basic wand suggestions. I would suggest knowing certain spells as witch, and maybe running an elan witch (for immortality). With Youthful Appearance (witch 1) and Lesser Age Resistance (witch 2?), Age Resistance (witch 4?), and Greater Age Resistance (witch 6), you can do a lot of shenanigans by being really really old. Youthful appearance will make you look young again, while Lesser to Greater Age Resistance will negate various levels of aging penalties.

As for Eternal Wands...you might want some like Cure Light Wounds, Negative Energy Ray, Contagion, Bestow Curse, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, and Fireball. While some of these are definately not on the Witch list, they're still useful spells to have a few uses per day of (especially fireball. Mmmmmm, fireball).

Hexes are going to be some of your best abilities though, and Healing Hex can go a long way if you have masses of living minions that need fixing between combats. Slumber, if you can get the target to fail it's will save, is a great hex because it's a sleep effect that's not limited by hit dice. And if you want to go Elan Witch immortal route, you'll probably want the water lung hex as an option for hiding from villagers and getting your nap on safely at the bottom of a lake or what have you.

The Cauldron Hex can be super useful too, since you can pick it up at 1st level and it gives you Brew Potion as a feat. That said, potions can't be made use per day, and this is talking about wands.


Uh.

No offense, Sagetim, but I would pretty much recommend doing that much differently.

If you want the age bonuses without penalties, go dragonwrought Kobold. Much less expensive feat-wise and you are a freaking Dragon. While a Witch doesn't have much in the way of Charisma based abilities, they are going to want it for UMD.

How are you getting the Age Resistances at those levels? Lesser Age Resistance is a 4th level spell, Age Resistance is a 6th, and Greater a 7th. And they are spells and therefore dispel-able.

Eternal Wands are for once-or-twice-a-day spells. Cure Light Wounds (or better, lessor Vigor if allowed) and your buff spells should be on normal wands. Who knows how many fights you'll run into in a day, and eternal wands for that just lead to the 15 minute workday. Fireball is not a spell worth carrying around. It does decent damage, but indiscriminately, and is of the easiest to resist energy type.

Ice Spears is much more discriminating, although it does a little less damage (4d6 v 5d6 for as minimal powered wand). Thorny Entanglement does potentially more damage and adds battlefield control. Swarm of Fangs is downright nasty as in Rain of Frogs.

I do agree that Hexes are your bread and butter. Hex Vulnerability is a spell you will want, and want in spades. Cackle is a necessary hex, and you'll want to get the magic item that lets you do that as a swift item (Witch's Shirt?). Probably your 4th level Hex. Evil Eye and Misfortune early. Fly at 6th level. If you're going for friendly hexes, Scar.

Cauldron is weak. You're not going to make that many potions, don't bother. Healing is alright if you don't have a better healer in the party, but it is not terribly efficient, and at one use per person per day, it is often insufficient.

There are many good Witch Handbooks out there, a simple google er alphabet er web search will lead you to them.

[Sagetim]

Uh.

No offense, Sagetim, but I would pretty much recommend doing that much differently.

If you want the age bonuses without penalties, go dragonwrought Kobold. Much less expensive feat-wise and you are a freaking Dragon. While a Witch doesn't have much in the way of Charisma based abilities, they are going to want it for UMD.

How are you getting the Age Resistances at those levels? Lesser Age Resistance is a 4th level spell, Age Resistance is a 6th, and Greater a 7th. And they are spells and therefore dispel-able.

Eternal Wands are for once-or-twice-a-day spells. Cure Light Wounds (or better, lessor Vigor if allowed) and your buff spells should be on normal wands. Who knows how many fights you'll run into in a day, and eternal wands for that just lead to the 15 minute workday. Fireball is not a spell worth carrying around. It does decent damage, but indiscriminately, and is of the easiest to resist energy type.

Ice Spears is much more discriminating, although it does a little less damage (4d6 v 5d6 for as minimal powered wand). Thorny Entanglement does potentially more damage and adds battlefield control. Swarm of Fangs is downright nasty as in Rain of Frogs.

I do agree that Hexes are your bread and butter. Hex Vulnerability is a spell you will want, and want in spades. Cackle is a necessary hex, and you'll want to get the magic item that lets you do that as a swift item (Witch's Shirt?). Probably your 4th level Hex. Evil Eye and Misfortune early. Fly at 6th level. If you're going for friendly hexes, Scar.

Cauldron is weak. You're not going to make that many potions, don't bother. Healing is alright if you don't have a better healer in the party, but it is not terribly efficient, and at one use per person per day, it is often insufficient.

There are many good Witch Handbooks out there, a simple google er alphabet er web search will lead you to them.

Well, if I'm off on the age resistance spell levels, then I blame my memory. I didn't look up their spell levels. And yes, they are dispellable, but at least an Elan can pass for human. A kobold is a kobold, even if it's a dragonwrought kobold. I don't know how they might avoid aging penalties, but I imagine there are roleplaying issues that would come up with a kobold that won't come up with an Elan (because an Elan looks human, while a kobold looks like a kobold.) I think in all the games of dnd I've played, there was only one where kobolds were not considered monsters (along with goblins, drow, etc) and thus to be attacked on sight by civilized people.

But yeah, Cauldron isn't a great hex. Mostly because potions aren't that great in general. An eternal wand of remove disease might make you some friends though (by using it on npcs to generate good will, or to be paid for the casting of a spell). I don't think remove disease is on the normal witch list, so you would need to umd that wand, but it's handy spell to have around...especially if you cause the problem by casting contagion on some people discreetly.

At 10th level you're going to be able to have enough ranks in UMD that charisma isn't going to be a huge factor in your modifier.

If you can afford a 4th level wand, Orb of Force might be a nice face puncher even if you have to umd to use it. If nothing else it would net you a very reliable attack spell that deals force damage on a hit.

Resist Energy is a great spell, even with a caster level of 3- 10 energy resistance to one of your choice of fire, acid, cold, lightning (and I think) sonic. If I recall right, caster level 7 even nets you a 20 energy resistance (though a wand with 11 caster level would be a bit expensive, it would net a 30 resistance). Lets see...caster level 11 x spell level 2 x 750 = 16,500 (which would be most of your cash). That would be a 5/day wand or 50 charges. So let's go with 2 charges per day (which you can buff at least the party tank and yourself with). At 2 charges per day we get 6,600 gold. That's a pretty damn powerful effect for how little it costs, even if you have to umd it. And on checking the spell, it is indeed fire, acid, lightning, cold, or sonic.

[marphod]

Well, if I'm off on the age resistance spell levels, then I blame my memory. I didn't look up their spell levels. And yes, they are dispellable, but at least an Elan can pass for human. A kobold is a kobold, even if it's a dragonwrought kobold. I don't know how they might avoid aging penalties... .


Ability penalties due to age do not apply to dragonwrought kobolds (Races of the Dragon 39)


I imagine there are roleplaying issues that would come up with a kobold that won't come up with an Elan (because an Elan looks human, while a kobold looks like a kobold.) I think in all the games of dnd I've played, there was only one where kobolds were not considered monsters (along with goblins, drow, etc) and thus to be attacked on sight by civilized people.

That's been less true the longer I've been playing. Both within setting canon and homebrews.

In Eberron, kobolds and goblinoids are fully recognized sentients. Kobolds are a mostly ignored race in planescape. In many home-brews, I kobolds are the master trapsmiths, in response to these darn murder-hobos constantly breaking into their domains.

And if you're worried about racial discrimination, you're just a Disguise Self or Alter Self from being accepted.



But yeah, Cauldron isn't a great hex. Mostly because potions aren't that great in general. An eternal wand of remove disease might make you some friends though (by using it on npcs to generate good will, or to be paid for the casting of a spell). I don't think remove disease is on the normal witch list, so you would need to umd that wand, but it's handy spell to have around...especially if you cause the problem by casting contagion on some people discreetly.

1) Remove disease is on the Witch's spell list.
2) Eternal Wands do not require the spell to be on your spell list (MIC 159-160). You just need to be able to cast arcane spells. (Yes, this is totally inconsistent with every other spell completion/trigger item. Don't ask me, I didn't write it.)



At 10th level you're going to be able to have enough ranks in UMD that charisma isn't going to be a huge factor in your modifier.

+10 from ranks, +3 class bonus. Given you need a 20 to use a wand, 25 to emulate a race, and up to a 34 to decipher a scroll, the +2 from a 14 Cha is much cheaper than many of the alternatives. Unless you get a way to take 10, you need a +19 for Wands.


If you can afford a 4th level wand, Orb of Force might be a nice face puncher even if you have to umd to use it. If nothing else it would net you a very reliable attack spell that deals force damage on a hit.

Or, you know, not. Unless you're trying to solo as a witch (Hint: Don't), you should be playing to your forte, which is debuffing your foes and buffing your allies. Your secondary skillset from spells and hexes is battlefield control.

Look at the spell list. First level spells include means of sickening, entangling, fatiguing, blinding, staggering, fascinating, dazing, enslumbering, or combusting your opponent. You can confuse voices, make them unable to speak clearly, give out dex damage, strength penalties, charm others, make other uncharismatic, cause them massive penalties (-20 to next skill or check), or make them take something from your hands and immediately CONSUME IT. Make a target roll twice and always use the worse result.

Not to mention your hexes. If you need to resort to physical damage, you're doing
something wrong.


Resist Energy is a great spell, even with a caster level of 3

Which isn't on the Witch's spell list. And isn't the Witch's balliwick. Let the party's other caster worry about it.

Resist Energy also only lasts 10 min/level. So to get all 5 energy types, all day, you're looking at half-a-wand-a-day for a 12th level wand.