Ring of Nine Lives questions

[bean illus]

I was reading through Bunko's Bargain Basement (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1002.0) and looking up some of the items for more details.

According to Bunko "Ring of Nine Lives (MIC 126, 45,000 gp): Any item that allows you to automatically make a saving throw, regardless of DC, is worth having." And that does seem true, but when I looked it up in the Magic Item Compendium it also says:

If you ever drop to 0 hit points or below, a
ring of nine lives expends one of its charges
to heal 20 points of damage. This effect
triggers automatically, requiring no action
on your part.

My question is: What if you are 21 hp down? Will the ring expend two charges? If so, the ring could theoretically heal up to 180 negative hp as an automatic action...? Very nice for a 'catch all'.:smallbiggrin:

Why could it not spend all resources if needed, to get the wearer above 0?

[Andezzar]

My question is: What if you are 21 hp down? Will the ring expend two charges? If so, the ring could theoretically heal up to 180 negative hp as an automatic action...? Very nice for a 'catch all'.:smallbiggrin: It does not work that way. You dropped to -21 HP, the item heals you to -1, you do not drop again, so it cannot heal again. However if that dying character then got another point of damage for bleeding out the ring would gain heal 20 hp, making the active at +18 HP.
Interestingly the ring does not make the character stable, as this magical healing is not at the hands of another character.


Why could it not spend all resources if needed, to get the wearer above 0?Because that's not what the rules say. As to why the rules are written that way, we could at best guess.

[NichG]

At higher levels, the healing aspect becomes a bit of a minor downside. Its not that hard for something to drop you more than 20 below if it'd kill you, so you still burn a charge of the ring for nothing. But with the saving throws, that can get you out of a lot of Save or Lose situations, including worse-than-death things like effects which would turn you against the party, make you unrecoverable, or cause certain kinds of permanent losses (Disjunction...)

[bean illus]

With your help I am reading this more carefully than i was last night at midnight.

If you ever drop to 0 hit points or below, a
ring of nine lives expends one of its charges
to heal 20 points of damage. This effect
triggers automatically, requiring no action
on your part.

And: Activation: — and immediate (command)

It looks to me as if: If you ever drop to or below 0 it heals 20.

The MIC also says about the ring :
Activation: The type of action required to activate the item’s
effect, along with what the user must do to activate the item (see
Activating Magic Items, page 219). An entry of — indicates the
item operates continuously, without any need for activation.

Why it says "and immediate (command)" in the Activation text makes no sense to me. Is possible that the ring can be activated consciously before reaching 0 hp (unconscious)? Because obviously there is no way for a PC to use a command word after 'dropping to 0') hp or below.

So, it seems hinged on the word "drop" being used in the present tense verb form, or in a passive continuous tense.

I see it as a purpose of the item, and therefore since it's purpose is to keep you from dying, and i still see the wording as nonexclusive, I would rule that it would expend all charges to bring you above 0.

I'm interested in what others think, but PLEASE BE NICE.

[Crake]

Why it says "and immediate (command)" in the Activation text makes no sense to me. Is possible that the ring can be activated consciously before reaching 0 hp (unconscious)? Because obviously there is no way for a PC to use a command word after 'dropping to 0') hp or below.

I'm guessing the activated ability is from the auto-pass any save ability? You know, the bit where it says "once per day as an immediate action"

[bean illus]

I'm guessing the activated ability is from the auto-pass any save ability? You know, the bit where it says "once per day as an immediate action"

Oh, of course... duh. I was so intent on figuring out the other details....

[Segev]

This does seem an excellent item even at high level. The auto-save is really, really good on its own, and it gives you an extra 19 hp buffer before you're dead. Plus, it will get you back on your feet in as little as two rounds if you don't stabilize.

If something drops you to as low as -29 hp, your ring immediately heals you to -9. If you fail to stabilize, you drop to -10, and your ring heals you to 10.

You're still dead if you drop to -30 or lower; -30 would have the ring heal you to -10, and that's still dead. But that's still a lot of extra buffer room on your below-0 counter!

[Cruiser1]

If you ever drop to 0 hit points or below, a
ring of nine lives expends one of its charges
to heal 20 points of damage. This effect
triggers automatically, requiring no action
on your part.

The Ring of Nine Lives only heals existing damage. It doesn't prevent potential damage. Therefore the ring is only useful if you're between 0 and -9 hp. If you're -10 or below, you are dead, and the ring won't expend any charges because it's on a corpse and is no longer being worn by a living creature.

Effects that actually prevent damage have special wording: Look at the spell Close Wounds (SpC) for an example of an effect that actually can save a character brought below -10 hp (because it actually prevents that damage from being applied in the first place).

[Invader]

The Ring of Nine Lives only heals existing damage. It doesn't prevent potential damage. Therefore the ring is only useful if you're between 0 and -9 hp. If you're -10 or below, you are dead, and the ring won't expend any charges because it's on a corpse and is no longer being worn by a living creature.

Effects that actually prevent damage have special wording: Look at the spell Close Wounds (SpC) for an example of an effect that actually can save a character brought below -10 hp (because it actually prevents that damage from being applied in the first place).

It absolutely works if you'd drop below -10 hps. It says it works if you'd drop to 0 or below not 0 to -9.

[marphod]

It absolutely works if you'd drop below -10 hps. It says it works if you'd drop to 0 or below not 0 to -9.

You're getting into timing issues that are not well defined.

If a character would ever be at -10HP or below, they are dead, dead, dead. As a Doornail. Corpse. Passed on. Shuffled of this mortal coil. Concerns vis-a-vis the character being still living are henceforth inoperable. The character is an Ex-Adventurer.

So the question is 'Is the character ever at -10 HP, or does the ring's healing trigger before the damage takes effect?'

The text is
If you ever drop to 0 hit points or below
That seems fairly definitive. It applies AFTER the damage is resolved, not before. So, if you have a means of staying alive at below -9 HP, it will trigger. However, if you are like most characters and dead at -10 HP, it won't heal you. You hit -10 HP, and became dead. You are no longer a legal target for the healing. (Or maybe it will trigger, but it is irrelevant, as you have already picked up the dead status.)

It doesn't need to clarify the range; it is the default behavior of HP. Healing Spells don't say that they 'can't raise you above your maximum HP' and that they 'don't bring back the dead' -- that is just how they work.