Create Pit and covering the pit...? (3.P)

[13_CBS]

Hello everyone,

So in Pathfinder, the Create Pit spell, well, creates a pit that's designed to trap low-level creatures and keep them out of the fight for a few rounds. When the spell is canceled or when the duration ends:


When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round.

...that happens.

So what happens if...

First, a creature ends up falling inside the pit and is unable to escape

Second, between the creature falling inside the pit but before the spell duration ends, an extremely solid and heavy object larger than the pit (say, a solid block of iron or something similarly strong and immovable) is placed over the pit so that the entire mouth of the pit is covered

and Three, the spell duration ends with the creature inside the pit

Is the creature crushed against the object covering the pit? Is the object covering the pit moved so that the creature is harmlessly freed from the pit? Something else?

[rockdeworld]

You've already put more thought into this than the spell's designers :smalltongue:

The answer is not clear by RAW (and the rules have always neglected you being trapped under something, save when it causes death).

The closest I can come to an answer is this:

Never Miss: When the entire dungeon wall moves to crush you, your quick reflexes won't help, since the wall can't possibly miss. A trap with this feature has neither an attack bonus nor a saving throw to avoid, but it does have an onset delay. Most traps involving liquid or gas are of the never miss variety.

At the least, the creature would suffer movement penalties if the object covering the pit weighed too much for them to carry.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Because the pit is an extra dimensional space you'd be jutted to a nearby open space as if you tried to dimension door into a solid object.

[rockdeworld]

Because the pit is an extra dimensional space you'd be jutted to a nearby open space as if you tried to dimension door into a solid object.
Would you provide a citation for this please? I didn't find it and would like to know where I missed searching.

[yellowrocket]

With the pit being extra demensional the iron block would become the new surface. So they would become on top of it.

[rockdeworld]

With the pit being extra demensional the iron block would become the new surface. So they would become on top of it.
That's not... it doesn't... :smallsigh:

Can you provide a citation for that?

[yellowrocket]

If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location

That's the dimension door effect. I'll defer to any better reference if you have one

[Extra Anchovies]

Those are the rules for dimension door, not for extradimensional spaces. I see no reason to apply rules for one to the other.

Also, rockdeworld, I only now just realized that your avatar is a figure half in the shadows rather than a poorly-lit close-up of a face looking off to the left (what I thought was a nose is actually a cloak). How did I manage that? I don't know.

[rockdeworld]

Also, rockdeworld, I only now just realized that your avatar is a figure half in the shadows rather than a poorly-lit close-up of a face looking off to the left (what I thought was a nose is actually a cloak). How did I manage that? I don't know.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-B7N2GfV7l94/UOgEW1QEgtI/AAAAAAAAEqQ/envtXfIOLhg/s1600/you-didnt-see-anything.gif

It's just a poorly drawn face and nothing else. Certainly not a suspicious-looking character.

[Enran]

Also, rockdeworld, I only now just realized that your avatar is a figure half in the shadows rather than a poorly-lit close-up of a face looking off to the left (what I thought was a nose is actually a cloak). How did I manage that? I don't know.

If it's any consolation, I only realized it wasn't a face because I read your post. I guess the stick figure's figure is, uh... Face-y? I can't think of any non-Elan words to describe a person who looks like a face.

[13_CBS]

I agree with Rockdeworld: is there a citation for the "appear on top of the iron block" rule?

[yellowrocket]

No but there's nothing to say they are crushed either. The create pit says they rise to the surface.

[KingSmitty]

ethereal jaunt has similar wording, 1d6 per 5ft shunted out.

Although, nobody said anything about spikes.

[Jack_Simth]

It's one of those many situations that the rules do not cover. However, there's guidelines for when that happens in the DMG, page 6 (at least in 3.5; I'm unsure of Pathfinder, but it's most likely the same).
Often a situation will arise that isn’t explicitly covered by the rules. In such a situation, you need to provide guidance as to how it should be resolved. When you come upon a situation that the rules don’t seem to cover, consider the following courses of action.

Look to any similar situation that is covered in a rulebook. Try to extrapolate from what you see presented there and apply it to the current circumstance.
If you have to make something up, stick with it for the rest of the campaign. (This is called a house rule.) Consistency keeps players satisfied and gives them the feeling that they adventure in a stable, predictable universe and not in some random, nonsensical place subject only to the DM’s whims.
When in doubt, remember this handy little rule: Favorable conditions add +2 to any d20 roll, and unfavorable conditions penalize the roll by –2. You’ll be surprised how often this “DM’s best friend” will solve problems.

If you come upon an apparent contradiction in the rules, consider these factors when adjudicating.
A rule found in a rulebook overrules one found in a published adventure, unless the rule presented in the published adventure deals with something specific and limited to the adventure itself.
Choose the rule that you like the best, then stick with it for the rest of the campaign. Consistency is a critical aspect of rules adjudication.

What's most similar to the situation that is covered? A cave in? Using Enlarge Person when the area is too small to contain the subject? Dimension Door's shunting? Rope Trick's Shunting? Magnificient Mansion's Shunting? The thing that happens to the contents of a pierced bag of holding?

If you're the DM, make a ruling, stick with it, and move on. If you're not the DM, ask your DM for a ruling, and your DM should make one, stick with it, and move on.