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View Full Version : Roleplaying Breaking Down the 4th Wall with Dice - e.g. speaking to the dead.



FablestoneDice
2015-08-09, 07:57 AM
Hi roleplayers,

I'd like to introduce an idea I've been pursuing for breaking the fourth wall in dice based table-top roleplaying, through the use of dice. It would be cool to know what people think about the concept...

The concept boils down into two parts.
1) The first is that the dice are designed as though they would be objects that could actually have been found in the fantasy setting in which we're gaming, e.g. an old dungeon in the Forgotten Realms. This covers the dice design all the way from how they look, how they are numbered, what material they are made from, and also their context in the world: who, why and how they were made. This means that the dice that we hold and roll could actually be objects that our avatar has previously found themselves in their world. Almost breaking the fourth wall.
2) The second aspect, is to have some secondary use for the dice that isn't resolving aspects of the game 'simulation'. This is because the idea of using dice to resolve a roleplaying game event isn't something that our avatar would ever do… so in rolling them for this purpose we aren't assuming the role of our character (and breaking down that 4th wall) at all! So this aspect of the idea, is to give the dice a purpose that our avatar would want to roll them for – entirely within the context of the game world. An example, would be that the dice can ask the spirits of the dead for guidance (as in a Ouija board). In this example, our avatar might want to use their dice to ask for guidance as to which way to go – in which case when we roll the dice (as though we are our avatar rolling the dice) we really have broken down the 4th wall! We ARE our character, rolling THEIR dice! :D

It would be cool to know what people think about this. Any ideas on other ways avatars might want to use dice-like objects within a game world – other than as a Ouija board?

On the note of the Ouija board implementation, I'm actually running a Kickstarter campaign to make actual dice that have this aspect. If this roleplaying concept sounds cool to you, then it would be great if you could check it out! :D https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1422641660/fablestone-dice-bone-origins This is my first project along this concept.

Looking forward to hearing peoples thoughts on the concept! :)

Keep Rolling,
Gary.

Rockoe10
2015-08-09, 09:31 AM
I'm very interested, but sorry I'm failing to fully understand. Can you clarify some words for me please.

Avatar-
Character-

Who are we and who do we 'Play'? If anyone, being that the fourth wall is broken.

What is our perspective? Are we out of character all the time, or in character all the time? In other words, are we just players talking with the character/avatar who moves about our table top?

Anonymouswizard
2015-08-09, 09:42 AM
I'd call this leaning on the fourth wall, not breaking it. Kind of like how I plan to run an Eclipse Phase game where the PCs come across an Eclipse Phase rulebook (which, if their higher ups become aware of it in any way, they'll receive a mission to destroy it). Breaking the fourth wall would be characters commenting on the medium as if they know they are in it (see The Order of the Stick for a well-written example, as well as the early Schlock Mercenary strips).

FablestoneDice
2015-08-09, 01:15 PM
Can you clarify some words for me please.

Avatar-
Character-

Who are we and who do we 'Play'? If anyone, being that the fourth wall is broken.

What is our perspective? Are we out of character all the time, or in character all the time? In other words, are we just players talking with the character/avatar who moves about our table top?

Sorry Rockoe10! By avatar and character, I mean the same thing: the PC (player character) as Anonymouswizard puts it. The PC is the person that your tabletop figure represents; the person who actually lives inside the game world - who isn't us, but we pretend to be them.

So we usually pretend to be the PC when we play games; making their decisions, speaking as them etc. Like normal. The breaking the 4th wall aspect, would be that you the player actually have in your hand the dice that belong to your PC; perhaps they found the dice in an old tomb before you started playing. And when there is a situation where your PC decides they want to roll their dice (for example, to speak to the dead), you roll the dice as if you are the PC rolling their dice. So you've assumed the role of your PC, with the same object that the PC found earlier.

As Anonymouswizard says, "Breaking the 4th wall" perhaps isn't the best term for this. But it's similar to that kind of thing.


I'd call this leaning on the fourth wall, not breaking it. Kind of like how I plan to run an Eclipse Phase game where the PCs come across an Eclipse Phase rulebook (which, if their higher ups become aware of it in any way, they'll receive a mission to destroy it). Breaking the fourth wall would be characters commenting on the medium as if they know they are in it (see The Order of the Stick for a well-written example, as well as the early Schlock Mercenary strips).

Actually yes, you've got me! This isn't breaking the 4th wall in the traditional sense, where the PCs talk directly about you the player. Really for want of a better term here.

Your Eclipse Phase idea sounds really intriguing. It's almost the reverse of my concept... PCs having an item that would belong to the player, as opposed to the player having an item that would belong to the PC. Leaning against the 4th wall is a nice term, we're both leaning on the opposites sides of it! Lol

Curious about your rulebook idea. Aside from the higher ups wanting you to destroy it, how does having the rulebook impact the game? Are you planning on playing a game of Eclipse Phase within a game of Eclipse Phase?! xD Or just having your PCs exploit the knowledge of the ruleset, arguably you do that already... although you might try not to.

mikeejimbo
2015-08-09, 01:55 PM
Huh, this is kind of like breaking the 4th wall from the other direction. Instead of the characters becoming aware of and commenting on the nature of the medium, the players partially enter the characters' world.

Other than divination, perhaps you could find a set of dice that causes other magical effects when rolled, kind of like the deck of many things, but dice.

FablestoneDice
2015-08-09, 05:22 PM
Other than divination, perhaps you could find a set of dice that causes other magical effects when rolled, kind of like the deck of many things, but dice.

The deck of many things is a great idea! :D There would be loads of opportunity to make funky dice along those lines, with their own rules based on where they were found and their backstory.

It'd be neat to make a dice version of the actual deck of many things... definitely would take some clever design to make it decent though.

FablestoneDice
2015-08-10, 04:33 PM
On a side note, my project just got funding! Hooray! :D

Rockoe10
2015-08-10, 09:25 PM
There is an episode of Futurama that uses this idea. I want to say it's called "Bender's Game"