Fairly new DM, Starting new campaign at 5th or 6th level.

[nuaragonis]

Starting a new game, there will be 3 players to start. Just looking for some ideas on how to start it up. starting at 5th level. I am a fairly new DM but I have played quite a bit. Any ideas would be great.

[BowStreetRunner]

You can Google "advice for new DMs" and find tons of generic advice. There will probably be a couple of members posting various links to existing threads below as well (unless I get ninja'd and they post them above). This is the Playground - ask something more specific. That is where you really see this group shine.

[Kol Korran]

Hi there! Welcoem to the DMing role! It can seem like a bit of a hassle at first, but I personally really like it. Hopefully you will too! It's a learning proces (Heck, I've doen it for years, and I'm still learning!) But thelearning and improvign itself can be ltos of fun.

I'd suggest to start with this thread by AKA_Bait (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?76474-So-You-Wanna-Be-A-DM-A-Potentially-Helpful-Guide-(Reposted-and-Updated)), It can help with qutie a lot of the basics of DMing.

Other than that, well... that quite depends on what specifc help you're seeking. By asking "How to start it up", what do you mean exactly? What story to make? How to start plannign an adventure, how to get the group together and make characters? How to design a campgin world? A BBEG? What sort of help are you seeking?

Also, what sort of ideas/ plans have you got so far? Who are your players? Their roleplay preferences? What kind of game (Not talkign just abotu system) do you wish to play? Any info you can give us, will help us help you.

Good luck to you!

[NevinPL]

I've started it in a market place, which was attacked "just as" our heroes happened to be there.
Earlier both halves of the party meet separately during their trip to the said market.

[RolandDeschain]

This is probably NOT the advice you're looking for but I would strongly recommend that you begin your campaign at 1st or 2nd level.

[Andezzar]

This is probably NOT the advice you're looking for but I would strongly recommend that you begin your campaign at 1st or 2nd level.I don't quite agree, 3-6 should be just as fine, for the DM. Most of the abilities that steer the campaign away from adventuring similar to what happens in LotR aren't available yet. If the players are inexperienced, a 6th level character might be overwhelming.

As has been said before we need more information to give the best advice.

You should start by deciding what kind of campaign you want story driven or sandbox.
For the story driven campaign you need to work to integrate your PCs into the story lest the players feel railroaded into going on the all important quest. If you want a sandbox you need to work to create a plausible and interesting setting that offers challenges to the PCs.

Make sure that the PCs have at least some connection to each other and/or a common goal, so they have a reason to work together.

It does not hurt to ask the players what characters they want to play and and discourage combinations that do not work (well): Only fighters in the party will limit your optins for challenges, a Paladin will not work with a CE Necromancer. etc.

It is generally a good idea to find out what the players want out of the game. It is even better when that is something you can and want to provide. Everybody should have fun.

Just a couple of my ideas towards your broad questions. If you narrow them I might have some more advice.

[Kol Korran]

That is still... not really enough info for us to help you with. Lets start with the following questions, for starters:

1. What sort of a game is your group looking for? As in themes (High Magic, Humor ,Horror, Pirates, Exploration, Full of combat, mystery, intrigue and so on?), Levels, amount of roleplay and combat you guys like, and anything really that piques your interest. (Wants to fight a specific creature, like undead or dragons, Want to explore a specific region/ Mystery, want to make a certain accomplishment, such as become ruler of a place or such).

2. Do you have any sort of story/ Inspiration you'd like to take the story to? Any kind of cool themes, scenes, challenges, NPCs, locations, plot, complication and the like?

3. Who compose your group? (Talking about players and DM, not characters!) What ages are you in? Level of maturity and personality, Experience in the game, how well do you know each other? Any kind of themes/ inspiration that gets you all etching for play? (A movie/ TV show/ Game?)

4. What sort of a world is this? Is it a published world? You own homebrew world? If so, how detailed is it currently? What sort of places/ Main concepts would you like to explore in your game?

5. Last and not least, please explain EXACTLY and IN DETAIL what do you want help with?

[Nifft]

This is probably NOT the advice you're looking for but I would strongly recommend that you begin your campaign at 1st or 2nd level.

Mostly agree, except I'd suggest level 3 instead of 1-2.

IMHO levels 1-2 are where the DM has to be really careful to not accidentally kill the PCs. This issue is exacerbated by the smaller-than-normal number of PCs, which makes combat more swingy and more deadly for the PCs. It's a poor environment for DM learning, unless your players don't mind a few character deaths. Hopefully you know them -- certainly we don't.

Level 3 is where it's fairly safe to throw level-appropriate encounters at the PCs and expect them to all survive.

[martixy]

Figure out the general tone of the campaign.
And no matter how sandboxy the world is, you need to have some concept of it. You need to be able to paint a compelling picture wherever your players take the story.

On that note, figure out a few initial hooks for the players, but be prepared for them to take the story in a different direction.

Be VERY wary of railroading(this includes, railroading by omission - i.e. your world is so barren and plain, they have no other choice but to go where you "tell" them).

And DON'T start in a tavern... just don't.

[Brova]

Level 3 is where it's fairly safe to throw level-appropriate encounters at the PCs and expect them to all survive.

Uh, I'm pretty sure the most wildly mis-CR'ed creatures are at 3rd. The Giant Crab, the Shadow, the Allip, the Runehound. That said, 3rd is a pretty reasonable place to start.

I think what level you start at should depend on how much complexity PCs are dealing with in character creation. Low level characters are a lot easier to build, but, as has been pointed out, also a lot easier to kill. One suggestion I've seen is to run a couple of sessions with pre-built PCs in the 5th to 7th range, then when they've adjusted to the game, start the actual campaign fairly low.

[martixy]

Uh, I'm pretty sure the most wildly mis-CR'ed creatures are at 3rd. The Giant Crab, the Shadow, the Allip, the Runehound. That said, 3rd is a pretty reasonable place to start.

I think what level you start at should depend on how much complexity PCs are dealing with in character creation. Low level characters are a lot easier to build, but, as has been pointed out, also a lot easier to kill. One suggestion I've seen is to run a couple of sessions with pre-built PCs in the 5th to 7th range, then when they've adjusted to the game, start the actual campaign fairly low.

My experience has been starting at a level of 4 or 5 to be ideal, unless the campaign is built specifically around different-level play.

This is okay even for a new DM, as long as the person is experienced in the system - i.e. knows what capabilities come online when, and how they are overcome or protected against.
For example what "ability drain" really means(as opposed to "ability damage"), what its counters are and how appropriate it would be for you to drop an encounter with that capability on your players.

[bean illus]

This is probably NOT the advice you're looking for but I would strongly recommend that you begin your campaign at 1st or 2nd level.


Mostly agree, except I'd suggest level 3 instead of 1-2.

IMHO levels 1-2 are where the DM has to be really careful to not accidentally kill the PCs. This issue is exacerbated by the smaller-than-normal number of PCs, which makes combat more swingy and more deadly for the PCs. It's a poor environment for DM learning, unless your players don't mind a few character deaths. Hopefully you know them -- certainly we don't.

Level 3 is where it's fairly safe to throw level-appropriate encounters at the PCs and expect them to all survive.
Level 1 and 2 are good for story and to let 'new' players get a feel for their character, as well as to let folks continue to plan their PC development for a while as they get to start playing.

The way I blend the two considerations is: We play one session (or so) at 1st, and another at 2nd, and then usually just one (or two) at 3rd, and then start counting XP.

Three session and the players are at 4th level, yet there is the feeling of starting at the beginning.

[LokeyITP]

Don't GM the way you post :)

There's a lot of ways to read what you're asking. We can start with the meta, are you ready to deal with what 4th level spells can do, because that's going to happen soon? (I.e. dealing with outsiders, better recon, being able to use lower level spells for protections, living in rope trick, etc...)

To answer your question, would want to know the general type of game your playing. The primary questions being do your player characters know the area and each other before starting?

[Flickerdart]

Starting a new game, there will be 3 players to start. Just looking for some ideas on how to start it up. starting at 5th level. I am a fairly new DM but I have played quite a bit. Any ideas would be great.
What are the 3 PCs? What sort of game do you want to run? Any detail beyond what you've already given would be great.

[martixy]

Don't GM the way you post :)

There's a lot of ways to read what you're asking. We can start with the meta, are you ready to deal with what 4th level spells can do, because that's going to happen soon? (I.e. dealing with outsiders, better recon, being able to use lower level spells for protections, living in rope trick, etc...)

To answer your question, would want to know the general type of game your playing. The primary questions being do your player characters know the area and each other before starting?

What in the nine hells are you talking about?

Did you start any better than "I've played before, but now I want to try and DM."

This isn't his final exam paper after 4 years of majoring DMing.

He posted exactly 2 relevant bits of info: He wants to start small and at level 5. The first is a good idea for a newbie DM IMO, the second is largely irrelevant unless he's never participated in a game of that level as a player.

[LokeyITP]

I meant that his post can be taken a lot of ways, pretty sure very few of the posters above are answering the same question.

Charitably, he might have his game materials ready to roll, he just wants a non-hackneyed you guys are drinking in the tavern and stuff happens kickoff. Even if he's asking how to dm, there's still a lot of different good ways to dm and would want the question to be more precise.

[Nifft]

Uh, I'm pretty sure the most wildly mis-CR'ed creatures are at 3rd. I think your point is, "Don't throw a single creature at your PCs at low level when you want non-swingy combat."

If that's what you're trying to say, that is a good point.

Tone travels poorly, so I'm going to assume you're just being helpful and not sarcastic.


Level 1 and 2 are good for story and to let 'new' players get a feel for their character, as well as to let folks continue to plan their PC development for a while as they get to start playing.

The way I blend the two considerations is: We play one session (or so) at 1st, and another at 2nd, and then usually just one (or two) at 3rd, and then start counting XP.

Three session and the players are at 4th level, yet there is the feeling of starting at the beginning.

That's a very reasonable way to start -- though, I'll note that's not actually the same as starting at 1-2.

[martixy]

I meant that his post can be taken a lot of ways, pretty sure very few of the posters above are answering the same question.

Charitably, he might have his game materials ready to roll, he just wants a non-hackneyed you guys are drinking in the tavern and stuff happens kickoff. Even if he's asking how to dm, there's still a lot of different good ways to dm and would want the question to be more precise.

Then again I just realized that your statement can be interpreted in more ways than one.

Either as "Don't handle GMing the way you handle posting." or "From the way you post, I don't think you'd make a good GM."

Oops :smalltongue:

[Socratov]

Well, as a person who is dreading hte planning etc. of being a DM (and thus currently building player experience) can only give hte advice to look back at your experiences as a player and ask yourself what you thought was fun/cool, and what wasn't fun/cool. That stuff will certainly help you decide wether what you are planning will be fun/cool or not.

As for the process of DMing itself, I'd ask Kol some more specific questions.

Speaking about Kol, what are you drinking mate? I'd like some of that (no offense meant btw. just an honest inquiry).

[nuaragonis]

Sorry for not being specific enough. I as a DM have little personal experience but I have extensive player experience. As well, the players in my game all have played for nearly 15 years or so. So I am not completely without help. I was just looking for an interesting way to bring a group of players together at 5th level. I'm not really in any rush to get an answer. I would like a few ideas of what level 5 players would be doing to bring them together since they have a bit of experience already. I don't want to do anything to cliche "You all start in a tavern." gets a bit old.
The three players tend to lean towards sneaky characters, whether they are rogues or rangers or such. although at this point we are still in the pre planning stages of a campaign. No one has picked anything at this point so it's still up in the air. I just like having options when it comes to starters. The world, although not complete, will be a fairly standard DnD world, with a few of the monster races thrown in as actual populations and not just beasts. Gnolls, goblins, ogres, orcs and such are all playable character races. So really all I would like is some ideas on how to toss this group of adventurers together. Thanks for the input.

[BowStreetRunner]

...I was just looking for an interesting way to bring a group of players together at 5th level...
Ah, now we're talking. :smallcool:

You could start with a fair day. Put the PCs all at the fair at the same time, enjoying whatever particular attractions interest each of them most. At some point the attention of the crowd is drawn to a gaudily dressed man over at the travelling menagerie. There is a covered cage there, next to all of the 'usual' rare and exotic beasts he obviously has been saving some surprise with which to 'wow' the crowd. He gives a big lead-up speech to the unveiling, enough to pique the curiosity of most of the PCs and a huge number of NPCs, then pulls back the curtain to reveal a truly hideous form sitting in a pool of water.

The aboleth in the cage is not truly a prisoner, but quite the opposite. It has been travelling around this way collecting slaves. Its normal approach is to watch the crowd in order to single out ideal candidates, then use use its enslave ability on those targets. After travelling with the menagerie for a time it intends to return to the depths with its prizes in a few weeks. When first unveiled none of the PCs will have any idea what the creature is. If none of the PCs manage to recognize it, eventually an NPC bard will come over to view it and recognize the creature, reacting with appropriate horror and fear.

Once exposed, the aboleth will draw its slaves near to protect itself. They will try to transfer it to a special wagon in which it has been carried from town to town and escape with it. Many NPCs will be in the fight on both sides, so you should be able to keep it a fair fight (no pun intended) by balancing their numbers. Ideally try to run the battle in such a way that the PCs end up together in the thick of it.

The outcome can go many different ways, depending on your long-term goals. I would recommend the aftermath uncovering some deeper plot with a very wealthy and powerful lord present to offer rewards or other incentive to anyone willing to lend aid.

[bean illus]

Invite the players over for a ]'backstory session'. Let them roll dice if they want.

"Everybody roll a D20. Whoever gets the highest gets to say something out loud about their character".

Let/make them integrate their backstory. Every roll you give out some little piece of information.

The local castle dates back to the old empire.
"At the prayers last Sabbathday the priest had a black eye. Rumor is .....

Keep paper in front of everybody and write it down. They will come up with some fun and useful stuff very quickly. Get them to choose classes and races, as well as trying to get them to say how they know each other. Fiat that most of their past business is finished.

By the time you get their class, race, and backstory, they will know the region you have them in, and be ready to meet the sheriff who is recruiting.

THEN send them to finish their character sheets.

[Socratov]

well, if most of your characters are sneaky then you might want to introduce the concept of a guildhall as a meetingplace (for a bonus, you have an immedeate hook for an assignment, aka plot)

[Nifft]

My favorite DM trick:

"The three of you meet in front of the coach-house. You've all accepted the invitation to visit the Tower of Lexdraco the Demon-Binder, a famous arcanist of dubious reputation, and do a job for him. Why did you accept this job offer?"

[Kol Korran]

... I was just looking for an interesting way to bring a group of players together at 5th level. I'm not really in any rush to get an answer. I would like a few ideas of what level 5 players would be doing to bring them together since they have a bit of experience already. I don't want to do anything to cliche "You all start in a tavern." gets a bit old.
....
Ok, here are some ideas, hope this can work out:
1. the different members, having gained a bit of reputation for past deeds, are called by an organization (Army, Special forces, Exploration company, Maybe a religious order, it all depends on the kind of adventure you're planning) To form a special team for a special job. This might be for a "test run" job, or the actual job, depending on how trustworthy you think your group is, or if you might want to have them bind together in a less stressful situation, before heading right on. The focus here is belonging to some group, and not just being a group of random adventurers.

2. "On the way Ambush": The party is on an air ship/ Wagon train/ Sea ship/ Whatever, when the vehicle gets damaged/ attacked, and after the initial shock, the party get stranded pretty much in the middle of nowhere. They group together at first just to survive, and then may need to rely upon each other more due to other complications. You need do this only till the group form tighter relations together, and maybe a common goal. In my campaign log "It began with a crash" (You can check my sig) This is exactly what happened.

3. Race! The party are called by some influential patron, liking their past deeds, in order to compete in some sort of a competition (Treasure hunt for example). From what s/he has heard ,He thinks their combined skills might work great together!

4. Caught by the enemy: The party gets taken as slaves/ sacrifices or so on, and must work together to break free. Beware, as some players really dislike this, some really love this. Up to you.

5. Seven Samurai recruiting style: Something I always wanted to do , but never got to. Basically, one of the PCs (One they agree will act as a leader) Is contacted for some mission/ job. He is allowed to bring in his group of experts. So he comes and meet the other PCs, each one in turn, to bring them along. In the movie these small meetups are roleplay centered, showing some of the personalities of the other experts, and their problems, which they deal with (Or not) In the movie.

6. Firefly style: Something a bit similar has been done in Firefly, where the captain remembers bits and pieces of how he acquired his ship, and the core of his crew. This is done in flashbacks fro mother adventures or so on, each flashback bringing in another character (It begins with him and his second looking for ships, later finding that the girl their mechanic sleeps with would actually make a far better mechanic, the second in command not liking a potential pilot, thinking he is useless (Which later on she marries), and convincing a robber to turn sides and join with them, and later he turns to be their hired gun).

You might even start the party right in the smack middle of an adventure, with some basic roles defined between them, and do sort of "Roleplay flashbacks" backwards? Never tried it, but it might be awesome, though it needs players who can improvise and respond quickly to roleplay.

[nuaragonis]

The theme I am using for this campaign will be Feudal Japan. Samurai, Ninjas and the like. Any unique ideas or tips anyone has would be appreciated. I really like the culture of ancient Japan, plus it adds plenty of roleplaying flavor.

[BowStreetRunner]

The theme I am using for this campaign will be Feudal Japan. Samurai, Ninjas and the like. Any unique ideas or tips anyone has would be appreciated. I really like the culture of ancient Japan, plus it adds plenty of roleplaying flavor.

A renowned and infamous ninja clan holds a special initiation once every three years. Those not born to the clan who wish to join can uncover a list of ten objectives that have been placed before the candidates by the clan. Various contacts throughout the empire will be able to provide the list to interested parties. At the end of the year anyone who has successfully completed one of the ten missions will be allowed to petition to be admitted to the clan. Each of the PCs has through various means learned of the initiation and all are currently on a river barge taking passengers to the Imperial Capital, where one of the ten objectives may be found. Through a series of events on the barge and in the city they will all learn two things: first, that each of them is competing for the same goal - to complete one of the ten objectives to enter the clan; and second, that members of a rival clan have acquired the list and are attempting to complete all ten objectives first, thereby keeping any new initiates from completing the challenge. An NPC who is also a candidate attempting to complete one of the objectives suggests they all help one another - if they each finish one objective they all can be admitted. However, during an early confrontation with the rival clan the NPC will be killed and it will be made clear the rival clan is deadly serious about keeping the PCs from completing the objectives.

[nuaragonis]

A renowned and infamous ninja clan holds a special initiation once every three years. Those not born to the clan who wish to join can uncover a list of ten objectives that have been placed before the candidates by the clan. Various contacts throughout the empire will be able to provide the list to interested parties. At the end of the year anyone who has successfully completed one of the ten missions will be allowed to petition to be admitted to the clan. Each of the PCs has through various means learned of the initiation and all are currently on a river barge taking passengers to the Imperial Capital, where one of the ten objectives may be found. Through a series of events on the barge and in the city they will all learn two things: first, that each of them is competing for the same goal - to complete one of the ten objectives to enter the clan; and second, that members of a rival clan have acquired the list and are attempting to complete all ten objectives first, thereby keeping any new initiates from completing the challenge. An NPC who is also a candidate attempting to complete one of the objectives suggests they all help one another - if they each finish one objective they all can be admitted. However, during an early confrontation with the rival clan the NPC will be killed and it will be made clear the rival clan is deadly serious about keeping the PCs from completing the objectives.

I like it! Thanks.

[marphod]

My favorite DM trick:

"The three of you meet in front of the coach-house. You've all accepted the invitation to visit the Tower of Lexdraco the Demon-Binder, a famous arcanist of dubious reputation, and do a job for him. Why did you accept this job offer?"

I love this kind of hook. It takes the player into the setting and makes them help compose the world.

You can make it more interactive by then adding a different complication for each character (You arrived mud covered), (there is a red, blood-like patch on your left shoulder), (you are drunk), (etc.) and ask the player to the left of them to explain why. (This does require some trust in your PCs.)

[Mendicant]

I'm a big fan of having the players tell me why they adventure together, especially when they're starting at a level that already marks them as experienced heroes. This works best in person, where they can bounce ideas off each other and build off of things while you feed them setting information.

Then, once you've got an idea of them as a cohesive unit, and their character's motivations, you can spin up a customized first hook. For instance, in the previous Ninja clan scenario, perhaps they're *also* enemies of this clan, but they're trying to infiltrate it. A unified team of experienced sneaky types would be really suspicious, so they're all pretending not to know each other. They've now got a task that unifies them--achieve the objectives, but they've also got a larger goal that A: feeds into a bigger arc and B: holds them together with something stronger than temporary expediency.

[nuaragonis]

One player is going for Sword Sage, and another is going for Ninja. Just to keep you all informed. I appreciate the info and tips. I do like the rival clan idea, gives them a target. I may have one of the enemy clan know one of the players, give it some drama.

[Nifft]

One player is going for Sword Sage, and another is going for Ninja. Just to keep you all informed. I appreciate the info and tips. I do like the rival clan idea, gives them a target. I may have one of the enemy clan know one of the players, give it some drama.

Swordsage is a great class. Very fun, can be powerful but not in game-breaking ways. (Tier 3)

Ninja is a low-power class, below Rogue, and significantly below Swordsage. The Ninja character might not be useful in as many situations as the Swordsage. (Tier 5)

Here are Tiers explained: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0

The best advice on these boards seems to be that you want characters on the same tier, or on two adjacent tiers. In your case, that'd be Tier 3 to Tier 4. Other appropriate Tier 3 character classes which can be stealthy are:
- Beguiler
- Binder
- Factotum
- Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger)

On tier 4, you'll find:
- Rogue
- Warlock
- Scout
- Ranger

[nuaragonis]

Swordsage is a great class. Very fun, can be powerful but not in game-breaking ways. (Tier 3)

Ninja is a low-power class, below Rogue, and significantly below Swordsage. The Ninja character might not be useful in as many situations as the Swordsage. (Tier 5)

Here are Tiers explained: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0

The best advice on these boards seems to be that you want characters on the same tier, or on two adjacent tiers. In your case, that'd be Tier 3 to Tier 4. Other appropriate Tier 3 character classes which can be stealthy are:
- Beguiler
- Binder
- Factotum
- Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger)

On tier 4, you'll find:
- Rogue
- Warlock
- Scout
- Ranger

Thanks for this, this helps me make recommendations to the other players who have not chosen a class quite yet.