Alternative Feat/ASI ruleset

[silverkyo]

Alright, so the following is a section I've been working on in my own campaign setting I'm brewing to run for a few friends of mine. Currently I'm playing with alternative feat ruleset I want to use and I'm looking for feedback on the concept. Below are the first 3 paragraphs before I get into the table of changes which I'm still working on balancing. These paragraphs kind of outline the concept in general and gives a feel for the idea. I'm really just trying to share this with someone who understands the game but won't be a player in it just to make sure I'm not insane. Anyway....


Every class in the game where it says “Ability Score Improvement” in the class chart is going to be changed to “New Feat”. Almost every feat in the game will now give some kind of Ability Score Improvement on top of it’s original effects, and the ones that already gave a score improvement will give a bigger improvement for the most part. There will also be multiple additional feats of my own design, some setting or race specific (or both). Those feats will be marked with a “*” next to them in the chart. I’ve tried to keep the amount of feats I’ve added small but meaningful to keep in line with the theme of 5e in general.

The reasoning for this ruleset is two fold: (1) Feats generally give players more options and interesting tools available to them (2) Score Increases simply increase numbers and let players perform what options are already available to them, but 5% better. Rather than force players to decide between a +1 to ability checks and feats, It allows characters more meaningful choice to have both. Feats are also a great way to give players more customization outside of multiclassing with how they interact with the world, which I find generally leads to a more interesting campaign. This is also a slight buff to the fighter who was built around getting more Ability Scores or feats than any other class but didn’t really need the amount they had because they ran out of useful improvements.

Along with this came for a need to update the Human: Variant race option so it couldn’t net a potential +4 to starting stats, which was detailed in the Race Specific changes. Also the need to add a few feats so casters who didn’t care about getting into the middle of combat had options for improving their characters. It also gave the option to give specific minor class specific options as feats for players who wanted one specific aspect of a class without taking a full dip into it, although usually weaker than the class version. Alternatively, a character who already had the class the feat originates from can take it to double down on that class feature and gain more use out of it.


Current Feat Total: 41

Max Strength Available: 26

Max Dexterity Available: 25

Max Constitution Available: 19

Max Intelligence Available: 15

Max Wisdom Available: 15

Max Charisma Available: 10

Obviously, the custom feats need a focus on mental/social feats and casting feats to bump up the mental stats which are lagging incredibly behind, and Strength and Dex could maybe be shaved off a couple feats. They're actually even worse off then they appear because 2 of the points in all mental stats casters would probably add to stats that aren't their primary casting stats since with Magic Initiate and Ritual Caster I tied the increase with the class the player is learning from. I might revert that change later, but it wouldn't fit with the theme of the feat. I think it just really shows how little options there are for caster feats in general.

[silverkyo]

Feat Changes


Alert: Increase Wisdom by 2, to a maximum of 20

Athlete: Increase Strength by 2, Dexterity by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

Actor: Increase Charisma by 2, to a maximum of 20

Charger: Increase Constitution by 2, to a maximum of 20

Crossbow Expert: Increase Dexterity by 1, to a maximum of 20

Defensive Duelist: Increase Dexterity or Constitution by 1, to a maximum of 20

Dual Wielder: Increase Dexterity by 1, to a maximum of 20

Dungeon Delver: Increase Intelligence or Wisdom by 1, to a maximum of 20

Durable: Increase Constitution by 2, to a maximum of 20

Elemental Adept: Increase Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1, to a maximum of 20

Grappler: Increase Strength by 2, to a maximum of 20

Great Weapon Master: N/A. No Changes.

Heavily Armored: Increase Strength by 2, to a maximum of 20

Heavy Armor Master: Increase Strength by 2, Constitution by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

Inspiring Leader: Increase Charisma by 2, to a maximum of 20

Keen Mind: Increase Intelligence by 2, to a maximum of 20

Lightly Armored: Increase Strength by 2, Dexterity by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

Linguist: Increase Intelligence by 2, to a maximum of 20

Lucky: Increase any chosen ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20

Mage Slayer: Increase Strength or Dexterity by 1, to a maximum of 20

Magic Initiate: Increase Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1, to a maximum of 20. Must match the class chosen to learn spells from.

Martial Adept: Increase Strength or Dexterity by 1, to a maximum of 20

Medium Armor Master: Increase Dexterity by 2, to a maximum of 20

Mobile: Increase Dexterity by 2, to a maximum of 20

Moderately Armored: Increase Strength by 2, Dexterity by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

Mounted Combatant: Increase Wisdom by 2, to a maximum of 20

Observant: Increase Intelligence by 2, Wisdom by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

Polearm Master: Increase Strength by 1, to a maximum of 20. Secondary Attack can only be done when target is within 5ft.

Resilient: N/A. No changes

Ritual Caster: Increase Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1, to a maximum of 20. Must match the class chosen to learn spells from.

Savage Attacker: Increase Strength or Dexterity by 1, to a maximum of 20

Sentinel: Increase Strength by 2, Constitution by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

Sharpshooter: Increase Dexterity by 1, to a maximum of 20

Shield Master: Increase Dexterity or Constitution by 1, to a maximum of 20

Skilled: Increase any chosen ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20

Skulker: Increase Dexterity by 1, to a maximum of 20

Spell Sniper: Increase Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Tavern Brawler: Increase Strength by 2, Constitution by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

Tough: Increase Constitution by 2, to a maximum of 20

War Caster: Increase any chosen ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20

Weapon Master: Increase Strength by 2, Dexterity by 2, or both by 1, to a maximum of 20

[silverkyo]

((Reserved for new feats))

[Malifice]

Rather than just some kind of complex new system, why not simply implement the following:

Whenever your class would normally grant an ASI, you instead gain +1 to an ability score of choice, and must also select a feat.

Solves both your problems and gets you both your objectives in one single line of text.

[silverkyo]

Rather than just some kind of complex new system, why not simply implement the following:

Whenever your class would normally grant an ASI, you instead gain +1 to an ability score of choice, and must also select a feat.

Solves both your problems and gets you both your objectives in one single line of text.

I'd thought about doing this at first, but I found that it actually usually left people lacking in stats they'd otherwise normally have, and I didn't want my players to feel like I'd gimped their characters because take feats. While I bumped almost every feat across the board, I found some didn't need a bump, and others could use a bigger bump to make them less terrible.

I'd thought about making it optional, of when you choose a feat you also gain the +1 ASI or you can just gain the +2 ASI, but this seemed to fall back on the old "5% stat bump"

But, if this does end up too much or too cumbersome or too confusing, then I might go with this rule instead. Saves me on a lot of work lol.

EDIT: Also, because in crunching numbers more, a lot of the feats are martial focused so your real can really punish casters. I could change this with a couple of the custom feat ideas I have, but even so, it still hurts them a little unnecessarily. Also some feats are so strong there are a reason a player might pick them up over a stat increase in general, and some builds say they should, so I'm not sure how many free +1s I want to give to those.

[Daishain]

You're talking about a major power boost here, especially for the fighter and rogue. I hope you're prepared to deal with that.

I actually did something somewhat similar, but with a minimal increase in power. Someone else had the basic idea first, but I can't find the post to credit it. In essence, whenever an ASI pops up, players could gain 2 ASIs, 1 ASI and 1 minor feat, 2 minor feats, or 1 major feat. The minor feats mostly consisted of those that added to an ability score (but had been stripped of that attribute), but also included in their number a few others that had been deemed too weak to ever be optimal. The major feats were, well, everything else.

I saw a notable increase in the picking of feats that were fun rather than just mechanically powerful (like Keen Mind), because they could more easily be snuck in without compromising too much.

[tieren]

EDIT: Also, because in crunching numbers more, a lot of the feats are martial focused so your real can really punish casters. I could change this with a couple of the custom feat ideas I have, but even so, it still hurts them a little unnecessarily. Also some feats are so strong there are a reason a player might pick them up over a stat increase in general, and some builds say they should, so I'm not sure how many free +1s I want to give to those.

I think this is by design, but not to punish casters so much as to give martials some interesting new options. Casters have tons of interesting options, on their spell lists. Giving fighters the options to charge or dual wield or tank or whatever is opposed to their other option, hit it again.

[Giant2005]

This will make your players significantly more powerful so your encounters will need to compensate for that unless you want the players to just power through everything with trivial effort. As long as you are taking that into consideration, everything should be fine - as long as the rules are consistent with all of your players then there shouldn't be an issue.
Having said that, I really don't think you should be pigeon-holing feats into giving bonuses to specific stats. Instead of having Alert increase Wisdom by 2, have it increase any ability of choice by 2. By limiting it in such a way, you are reducing player options and turning everything into cookie-cutter-crap. A Fighter that wants the Alert feat is essentially punished for doing so by having to waste his ability increases on an ability that he doesn't care one bit about - the same is true of Mounted Combatant which is particularly cruel considering that feat was designed with Martial characters in mind.

[Ketiara]

As you said yourself, the ASI only gives a 5% increase, so why not just leave them be as is, and players can choose extra options or ASI. It makes for harder choices for the player and imo its more fun to have your hard choice pay off afterwards.

You could just give them 3x16's to place where they want that would allow them to choose feats instead of ASI

[silverkyo]

This will make your players significantly more powerful so your encounters will need to compensate for that unless you want the players to just power through everything with trivial effort. As long as you are taking that into consideration, everything should be fine - as long as the rules are consistent with all of your players then there shouldn't be an issue.
Having said that, I really don't think you should be pigeon-holing feats into giving bonuses to specific stats. Instead of having Alert increase Wisdom by 2, have it increase any ability of choice by 2. By limiting it in such a way, you are reducing player options and turning everything into cookie-cutter-crap. A Fighter that wants the Alert feat is essentially punished for doing so by having to waste his ability increases on an ability that he doesn't care one bit about - the same is true of Mounted Combatant which is particularly cruel considering that feat was designed with Martial characters in mind.

That's a good point I hadn't really considered.

When the idea came to me, the stat specific options where there to keep with the flavor of the feat such as the Dex increase on Mobile because it's described as "You move really fast", but perhaps that will be too limiting to players. What if I did what someone else had mentioned above with allowing the +1 to any stat and a feat as a choice option, do you think that would balance it out?

[silverkyo]

You're talking about a major power boost here, especially for the fighter and rogue. I hope you're prepared to deal with that.

I actually did something somewhat similar, but with a minimal increase in power. Someone else had the basic idea first, but I can't find the post to credit it. In essence, whenever an ASI pops up, players could gain 2 ASIs, 1 ASI and 1 minor feat, 2 minor feats, or 1 major feat. The minor feats mostly consisted of those that added to an ability score (but had been stripped of that attribute), but also included in their number a few others that had been deemed too weak to ever be optimal. The major feats were, well, everything else.

I saw a notable increase in the picking of feats that were fun rather than just mechanically powerful (like Keen Mind), because they could more easily be snuck in without compromising too much.

I'm okay with the power increase in general to be honest. I'd need to get a feel for it, so the first few encounters might fluctuate between too easy and too hard, but after a couple sessions I don't think it would be an issue. That being said, the system you're describing really intrigues me, I'd be interested to see exactly which ones they classified as a minor feat and how they balanced the numbers. I'm aware there is a lot of baked in power for strength and dexterity here so I'm still working on that balance.

[Giant2005]

What if I did what someone else had mentioned above with allowing the +1 to any stat and a feat as a choice option, do you think that would balance it out?

The suggested way is far simpler and easier to implement for those that don't want to have to put the effort in but you have already put the effort in and your way is better. The difference between your way and a generic rule like that is that doing it your way added the ability to re-balance the feats.
You have already done the work, so I suggest keeping the work you have done, but instead of adding +2, or +1 or + whatever to a particular ability, just give the feats the same number of ASIs that you have already worked out, and let them put them wherever they like.