View Full Version : OOTS #997 - The Discussion Thread
The Giant
2015-08-10, 05:55 AM
New comic is up.
Forikroder
2015-08-10, 05:58 AM
holy mother of snarl :smalleek:
but how does influencing this vote specifically help Hel though
danielmayer
2015-08-10, 06:00 AM
Vel smiling up to the balcony :)
Shale
2015-08-10, 06:00 AM
So they are in fact paying attention, then!
navpirx
2015-08-10, 06:01 AM
So our good Hel is actually trying to save the world. You can't turn said world into a miserable sinkhole if it doesn't exist in the first place.
greatscott
2015-08-10, 06:01 AM
Destroy the World!
Wow. Didn't see that one coming...
DaggerPen
2015-08-10, 06:02 AM
Oh.
Oh, that's bad.
... I'm kind of surprised to see this as mostly the Northern Pantheon, though, with only Veldrina as the dedicated Western + Elven Pantheon representative and no indication of any Southern one.
Wasn't plan B historically to run away? :o
Also, I adore the cleric in the kilt. There should be more kilts in the world.
Brendanicus
2015-08-10, 06:03 AM
Oooooooh boy. And after all of Wrecan's downplaying of the bureaucracy, I began downplaying the importance of the Godsmoot itself.
I feel foolish for trying to guess HPoH's game in the first place.
AdmiralCheez
2015-08-10, 06:03 AM
Well... that certainly would be one way to stop the snarl. A bit extreme, but if they've realized the gates are being destroyed, they might think this is their last option.
3SecondCultist
2015-08-10, 06:06 AM
Well. Well then. :smalleek:
DigoDragon
2015-08-10, 06:06 AM
No pressure on that vote, right? :smallbiggrin:
I vote Yay. It's more dramatic that way (and why should Xykon have all the fun?)
CoffeeIncluded
2015-08-10, 06:07 AM
Oh holy ****. I wasn't expecting that. I mean, I get their thinking--the gods know that the Snarl can Unmake creation and actually destroy all the souls of everyone on the planet, AND it can kill the gods. So in their mind, better to distort the world, send everyone to their destined afterlives where they still exist or some other pocket dimension or something and protect themselves ( and I bet the gods are concerned about the latter over the former but told their priests more about the former than the latter) than to have everyone unmade.
We're definitely going to have V or Roy speak and talk about the world in the rift. And oh man, Redcloak is going to be so pissed when he learns about the Godsmoot, if he wasn't invited.
Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent, I literally just got up.
Arrowstorm122
2015-08-10, 06:07 AM
So our good Hel is actually trying to save the world. You can't turn said world into a miserable sinkhole if it doesn't exist in the first place.
How do we know she wants to vote for saving the world? And with all the talk of driving Thor to his knees and the killing of all the Brothers and Sisters of the Creed, I bet there's more to it than as such. If the world gets destroyed, wouldn't people go to Hel instead of Asgard?
fox1212
2015-08-10, 06:07 AM
Is there a typo on panel 9? "panthrons" should be "pantheons", right?
Mystic Muse
2015-08-10, 06:08 AM
Well... that certainly would be one way to stop the snarl. A bit extreme, but if they've realized the gates are being destroyed, they might think this is their last option.
If the world were destroyed, wouldn't that potentially RELEASE the snarl?
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 06:09 AM
Why yes, Roy, you do have bigger problems than Belkar.
Belkar has bigger problems than Belkar.
Holy Range Safety Destruct Button, Batman!
HPoH left his two new friends outside and has his staff, so that line of speculation seems to have been nipped. I wonder what the two new friends are up to? Nothing good.
Longeye_Samurai
2015-08-10, 06:09 AM
So... does that mean that Durkon/ula gets 2 votes on the matter? :durkon::durkon:
Quebbster
2015-08-10, 06:10 AM
Is there a typo on panel 9? "panthrons" should be "pantheons", right?
Not necessarily. It could mean some sort of feline-themed Transformers or something.
...But yeah, probably a typo.
hroşila
2015-08-10, 06:12 AM
Well, at least the gods didn't just debate it among themselves but seem to want the input of their high priests. It's something!
Lheticus
2015-08-10, 06:13 AM
I have just one thing to say...
The ****?!
Nawaki
2015-08-10, 06:15 AM
Oh my...
didn't see that one coming...
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 06:15 AM
Well, I truly did not see that coming. :smalleek:
The gods are up to some wacky stuff, it seems...
sabremeister
2015-08-10, 06:15 AM
Roy you idiot, stop assuming anything NPCs say is irrelevant, and pay attention!
Caesar
2015-08-10, 06:17 AM
Oooops. "Initiate self-destruct sequence, world will un-be in exactly 3 minutes. There is no safe distance. Have a nice daaaay!"
hamishspence
2015-08-10, 06:19 AM
If the world were destroyed, wouldn't that potentially RELEASE the snarl?
I think it's a reference to what Shojo and V said here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html
about how the prison can be remade with no rifts - but the world has to be destroyed in order to remake the prison.
So...
comic 998 will present the arguments...
comic 999 will be the vote...
and comic 1000 can bring the story to an unexpected end. :smallamused:
I don't see the Giant being this cruel, but it would certainly be an interesting outcome. :smalltongue:
Nemeean_lion
2015-08-10, 06:21 AM
Wait a minute...
Is Hel actually trying to save the world here?
Maelstrom
2015-08-10, 06:21 AM
Well, that would certainly be *one* way to wrap up the comic at issue #1000... Rocks Fall on a global level...
Windscion
2015-08-10, 06:22 AM
Huh. Must be nice to have a way to escape the burning building. But I guess it kinda makes sense. By the time the last gate falls it'll be a bit late to do anything.
If the Gods do destroy the world, Xykon will be destroyed and Roy's father can go to his lawful-selfish reward. That's got to count for something, right?[/sarcasm]
Yeah, rocks falls, everyone dies.
Arrowstorm122
2015-08-10, 06:23 AM
So...
comic 998 will present the arguments...
comic 999 will be the vote...
and comic 1000 can bring the story to an unexpected end. :smallamused:
I don't see the Giant being this cruel, but it would certainly be an interesting outcome. :smalltongue:
One comic for all the arguments? Surely there's going to be quite a few who wishes to debate the fate of the world.
Grey Watcher
2015-08-10, 06:25 AM
Oh.
Oh, that's bad.
... I'm kind of surprised to see this as mostly the Northern Pantheon, though, with only Veldrina as the dedicated Western + Elven Pantheon representative and no indication of any Southern one.
One presumes that the other pantheons are having their own Godsmoots (or functional equivalents) and that's why the West and the Elves between them could only spare someone as low-ranking (in the church hiearchy, at least) as Veldrina.
As for the lack of Southerners, the person Veldrina was talking to when she looked up and waved at Wrecan looks pretty out of place, so he might be the Southern representative (obviously not from Azure City, but perhaps one of the countries where the Azurites sought refuge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html).
Also, I love the dirty look that one priestess is giving the HPoH.
I wonder if the wording of the vote will force the HPoH to reveal himself to Roy? (ie will the proper response be "I vote aye/nay" or "Hel votes aye/nay"?)
Silverionmox
2015-08-10, 06:27 AM
Vampirized Durkon should be announced as High Priest of Hell - and in any case he can't be Thor's, so he'll be unambiguously identified as at least a liar to Roy. So that charade seems to be certain to come to an end.
The leading cleric is Odin's, apparently :)
Grey Watcher
2015-08-10, 06:28 AM
Wasn't plan B historically to run away? :o
Also, I adore the cleric in the kilt. There should be more kilts in the world.
Technically, that's a bodyguard. (Although he might have levels in Cleric, for all we know.)
One comic for all the arguments? Surely there's going to be quite a few who wishes to debate the fate of the world.
Well, one update. We don't know how many pages there will be. :smalltongue:
ibgdude
2015-08-10, 06:32 AM
This might just be me, but the title "Plan B" makes me think of the morning-after pill.
Bulldog Psion
2015-08-10, 06:33 AM
Ah, Veldrina's grin. Priceless. :smallsmile:
And -- whoa, they're thinking of unmaking the entire world? I guess that's logical from their viewpoint.
And I don't think anyone predicted that in advance. Classic Burlew! :smallcool:
Silverionmox
2015-08-10, 06:33 AM
I wonder why the voting is necessary at all. Can't the gods have their own meeting to decide about that little issue? The clerics are apparently just relaying the opinion of their god anyway, so this seems like an unnecessary step.
Elenna
2015-08-10, 06:36 AM
Wow. That was... unexpected.
And the Giant has somehow managed to up the suspense from the last strip! :smalleek:
Kantaki
2015-08-10, 06:37 AM
Oh, That's what this meeting is about? Not good. I vote Nay. I like this world.
I wonder how our favorite follower of Hel will vote. Is Hel's plan related to world 2.0 or will she try to improve her position in version 3.0? I think it might be the latter.
Zwiebelchen
2015-08-10, 06:38 AM
I just registered to say the following:
How the heck does Mr. Burlew still manage to surprise me after almost a millenia of strips? :/
Like, seriously, after all the things I had in my mind how this could continue, this didn't come to my mind like... at all.
PS: The new art style kicks ass!
Bulldog Psion
2015-08-10, 06:44 AM
I wonder why the voting is necessary at all. Can't the gods have their own meeting to decide about that little issue? The clerics are apparently just relaying the opinion of their god anyway, so this seems like an unnecessary step.
Good point.
Maybe they're not on speaking terms? (I know, that's reaching.)
Grey Watcher
2015-08-10, 06:45 AM
I wonder why the voting is necessary at all. Can't the gods have their own meeting to decide about that little issue? The clerics are apparently just relaying the opinion of their god anyway, so this seems like an unnecessary step.
Well, since the mortals are the ones facing destruction, maybe the Gods want to hear what the mortals have to say? Or maybe the mortals ARE the ones making the decision, much like how legislators make decisions on behalf of their constituents?
Admittedly, either of those sounds a lot more understanding than the Gods have appeared to be so far, but still interesting.
BadAndyMk3
2015-08-10, 06:46 AM
Dun-Dun-Duuuuuuuuun!
JohnTheSavage
2015-08-10, 06:48 AM
http://www.egscomics.com/image/ohsnap.png
Odin's Eyepatch
2015-08-10, 06:51 AM
The leading cleric is Odin's, apparently :)
I agree: the eye-patch and the spear with two raven feathers give it away. Also, from what I remember from 'Deities & Demigods', all the clergy of the Church of Odin wear those eye-patches, even though they aren't usually required to poke their eye out.
Can't seem to guess the deities of any of the other clerics, though. Anybody else see any clues?
Also, what surprises me even more, is how little time the've got left: if the vote is Yea, the Gods will destroy the world at the end of the ceremony. They could be done in 30 minutes :smalleek:
Divayth Fyr
2015-08-10, 06:52 AM
Or maybe the mortals ARE the ones making the decision, much like how legislators make decisions on behalf of their constituents?
The priest said they're there to convey their patron's decision - so this is unlikely ;)
The Pilgrim
2015-08-10, 06:55 AM
Looks like The Snarl thing is definitely related to this Godsmoot. :smallbiggrin:
LuisDantas
2015-08-10, 06:57 AM
holy mother of snarl :smalleek:
but how does influencing this vote specifically help Hel though
By duplicating the Dark One's plan: blackmail the other Gods with the threat of the Snarl so that they give Hel increased privileges and influence, at least for the time being.
I now suspect that the Godsmoot rules allow for a loophole. The Stone Creed priests turned vampires are now technically Priests of Hel and will be allowed to vote in her stead, despite that having never been the intent.
... I'm kind of surprised to see this as mostly the Northern Pantheon, though, with only Veldrina as the dedicated Western + Elven Pantheon representative and no indication of any Southern one.
That Veldrina was the sole representative of two whole pantheons was a strong indication that there were only a very few guests from other pantheons. As in, probably only two at most.
We know from the Azure City arc that there used to be a living High Priest of the High Gods until recently; it is possible that his successor is attending, or that a representative of his is (as a guest and observer, no more), or perhaps there has been no time to make the necessary arrangements since his recent death.
hroşila
2015-08-10, 06:59 AM
The priest said they're there to convey their patron's decision - so this is unlikely ;)
The gods vote - doesn't mean they can't listen to what the kiddos have to say on the matter. Note that the vote will be preceded by, not a debate, but an exposition of different points of view, for and against, and there's no literal indication that those points of view will be exclusively divine.
However, when you take all the dialogue from the High Priestess of Odin, it surely sounds like they're just going to act as the gods' mouthpieces.
Maybe they don't want certain gods to learn about this? Are they not telling Loki, for example, to make sure he doesn't tell the Dark One?
Ted The Bug
2015-08-10, 06:59 AM
Uh, woah, wow. Alrighty then, no big deal or anything. Just setting that doomsday clock a couple hours forward, is all.
Ironically, the Order certainly wouldn't have ever made it there had Durkon not gotten vamped. I guess that means that Malack is finally the good guy all the forumites insisted he was!
But NOT a fan of a comic setting something this important up, so close to #1000. Be afraid.
Jay R
2015-08-10, 07:01 AM
Vampirized Durkon should be announced as High Priest of Hell - and in any case he can't be Thor's, so he'll be unambiguously identified as at least a liar to Roy. So that charade seems to be certain to come to an end.
Somehow, my reaction to this strip wasn't, "Oh no! The HPoH's deception might be exposed!"
I wonder why the voting is necessary at all. Can't the gods have their own meeting to decide about that little issue? The clerics are apparently just relaying the opinion of their god anyway, so this seems like an unnecessary step.
It's an unnecessary step if the gods' intent is to destroy the world. But it is an absolutely necessary step if the author's intent is to provide a situation for the heroes to deal with.
woweedd
2015-08-10, 07:02 AM
Well, I guess with 4 Gates broken, The Gods have decided that whatever-this-planet-is-called is a lost cause and are deciding whether or not, to use a computer analogy, to try one last time to fix the virus or just throw it away and buy a new computer.
Windscion
2015-08-10, 07:03 AM
re 453 -- the gods stay within their geographical confines.
Hence, godsmoots.
toapat
2015-08-10, 07:07 AM
Well... that certainly would be one way to stop the snarl. A bit extreme, but if they've realized the gates are being destroyed, they might think this is their last option.
No, its the fact that the gates themselves would have stretched and deformed the weakened space in order to form a proper cosmic abutment. The rift above Azure City was small enough to be sealed in a large gem, and its a cosmic scar that overwhelms the sun and stars. How large are the first 2 that were destroyed then? What the moot is about is essentially a few weeks of life. and risk to the gods themselves, with the actual distinction being based on who is more cocky and who is more cautious
3SecondCultist
2015-08-10, 07:07 AM
I think it's a reference to what Shojo and V said here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html
about how the prison can be remade with no rifts - but the world has to be destroyed in order to remake the prison.
Yes, I think you've got it exactly right, there. In order to reforge the perilously broken Snarl prison without any rifts whatsoever, the gods need to break this iteration of the world and start over. And it seems that at least a few of them think it's a perfectly acceptable margin of loss (assuming that not everybody has the resources to get to another plane, or even that all of the other planes will survive the destruction).
Oh, and I updated the Wham Episode / Nightmare Fuel pages for this comic as of this strip. The idea that the Good gods would consider this, let alone go through with it... :smalleek:
Toper
2015-08-10, 07:11 AM
Gontor, at least, presumably thought the nays would have it, given his desire to talk future politics. Unless he was referring to rules for the next world, I suppose.
I wonder how many new Hel priests there actually are. And why the Southern and Western pantheons only got to send single representatives to a binding referendum with an immediate effect (I imagine the blue-sashed guy Veldrina is chatting with is the Southern rep). Maybe the other pantheons voted already and the Northern pantheon is the third, deciding vote.
It's not clear which side Hel is on. She did want to bring this world to ruin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html), which could mean destruction. But I'm guessing her plan has an extra step or two somewhere.
woweedd
2015-08-10, 07:11 AM
Roy you idiot, stop assuming anything NPCs say is irrelevant, and pay attention!
Yeah, not listing to people seems to be Roy's main character flaw and he doesn't have many after most of them got fixed via Character Development in No Cure for the Paladin Blues. That flaw is actually what's been mainly keeping him from figuring out that Durkon's body is actually possessed, not helped by the fact that Durkon keeps hypnotizing anyone who could tell him and isn't spectacularly untrustworthy.
factotum
2015-08-10, 07:13 AM
Well, since the mortals are the ones facing destruction, maybe the Gods want to hear what the mortals have to say? Or maybe the mortals ARE the ones making the decision, much like how legislators make decisions on behalf of their constituents?
I suspect this all follows on from the agreement that we know exists between the Gods--namely, they aren't allowed to directly influence events on the world below, they have to do it via their clerics. Since that rule was instantiated in order to prevent divine conflict creating another Snarl, they are presumably leaving this decision to their clerics, as the agreement says they must.
The Pilgrim
2015-08-10, 07:22 AM
I wonder why the voting is necessary at all. Can't the gods have their own meeting to decide about that little issue? The clerics are apparently just relaying the opinion of their god anyway, so this seems like an unnecessary step.
That would imply that the Gods/Pantheons trust each other enough to gather together, and that they have some neutral, accepted by all, gathering ground.
I mean, we have already seen one of the High Priests playing foul in the Godsmoot. Just figure the level of treachery and backstabbing on a God-Level.
Add to the problem the fact that the Snarl could break free at any minute, and that it's plans when released can be resumed as:
1) Go to the closest God
2) Unmake it
3) Repeat while Gods > 0.
Gathering all Gods toghether so the Snarl can unmake all of them in one go isn't the most smart thing to do.
All in all, it makes perfect sense that the Gods prefer to gather their pawns, and speak through them.
IronicGentleman
2015-08-10, 07:24 AM
Whelp ... Th-that ... Th-th-that was unexpected! :smalleek:
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 07:24 AM
There may well be rules that keep the gods from meeting; Hel is not welcome in Valhalla, no one else wants to go to Hell. Hence, clerical intermediaries. Plus I'm thinking a face-to-face between Thor and Hel might not feature a whole lot of rational discourse.
Does Surtur get a priest?
allenw
2015-08-10, 07:28 AM
I can't say I'm very surprised.
It seemed really, really likely that the GodsMoot had to do with the Snarl. That being the case, I was pretty sure that someone would suggest destroying the world. I didn't expect that to be the *only* suggestion, though.
Speculation:
Debate, followed by impassioned speech by Roy. Which the gods ignore, and vote to destroy the world.
Just before the vote is finalized (after dusk), Durkula and his new minions (who built the temple) dispel the temple, crushing all the assembled clerics to paste, sparing Roy (but probably not Belkar) to go save the world.
foobar1969
2015-08-10, 07:28 AM
Well, that escalated quickly.
The discussion will bring up the destroyed gates. Good thing the destroyers are available to testify (whether the priests want it or not).
High Priest list (with info from Grey Pilgrim)
NORTHERN / ASGARD:
Odin: speaker with spear and eyepatch
Freya: blonde woman with circlet (probably)
Hel: Durkula
Hoder: blind woman with staff (985)
Thor: dwarf woman with metal cap & armor (probably, scowled at Durkula)
?: red haired man with blue robe (985)
?: horned helm with red tabard (985)
?: black beard with red vest & symbol
?: brown beard dwarf with hat
?: brown hair with gold hoop earring
WESTERN / BABLYON & ELVEN: Veldrina
SOUTHERN / TWELVE: white & blue robe guy with forehead stripes (probably)
HALFLING (maybe): stubbled halfling with cape
GOBLIN: Redcloak (not present)
p.s. In D&D sourcebooks, the norse gods (and associated symbols):
Odin, knowledge & war (eye/patch, spear, ravens)
Aegir, sea & storms (waves, greatclub)
Balder, beauty & poetry (chalice)
Forseti, justice & law (beard, sword)
Frey, fertility & sun (sword, boar & horse)
Freya, fertility & love (falcon)
Frigga, birth & fertility (cat)
Heimdall, watchfulness & loyalty (horn)
Hel, death & underworld (skull)
Hermod, luck (winged scroll)
Loki, thieves & trickery (flame, red & black)
Njord, sea & wind (gold coin)
Odur, light & the sun (sun)
Sif, war (upraised sword)
Skadi, earth & mountains (mountain)
Surtur, fire giants & war (flaming sword)
Thor, storms & thunder (hammer)
Thrym, fire giants & cold (axe)
Tyr, courage & strategy (sword, one hand)
Uller, hunting & winter (bow)
Zwiebelchen
2015-08-10, 07:29 AM
That flaw is actually [...] not helped by the fact that Durkon keeps hypnotizing anyone who could tell him and isn't spectacularly untrustworthy.
Heh, so that means Roy's biggest character flaw is actually insufficient spot checks. ;)
Stabbey
2015-08-10, 07:29 AM
Oh boy. I figured it was about the Snarl, but I didn't think that it would be about this.
Oh crap... I just thought of something Rich mentioned in the last book:
He said that Roy would face consequences for his actions. Well, at this point I'm certain that Roy will soon speak up and say that he's trying to stop Xykon and save the world. And then it will be revealed that the Snarl s breaking through the desert gate - which Roy destroyed.
Gwynfrid
2015-08-10, 07:29 AM
Wrecan and Roy frozen in conversation - priceless. Matches the readers' reaction, too :smalltongue:
Ted The Bug
2015-08-10, 07:34 AM
Oh crap... I just thought of something Rich mentioned in the last book:
He said that Roy would face consequences for his actions. Well, at this point I'm certain that Roy will soon speak up and say that he's trying to stop Xykon and save the world. And then it will be revealed that the Snarl s breaking through the desert gate - which Roy destroyed.
Yep, ever since reading that in the commentary and seeing Roy in a place with so many people likely "in the know", I was wondering when the shoe was going to drop.
Looks like very, very soon.
Roland Itiative
2015-08-10, 07:39 AM
As Elan would say (and probably actually said, even though he had no reason to know): Dun dun DUN.
tcrudisi
2015-08-10, 07:45 AM
Hel is wanting to save the world. Thor is wanting to destroy it.
Think about it - that would give Durkon some internal development. It would also put Hel in an interesting position over Thor, and that's what Hel really wants.
dancrilis
2015-08-10, 07:51 AM
The politics here could be funny.
God 1 - Wants to destroy the world.
God 2 - Wants to spare the world.
God 3 - Neutral on the destruction of the world.
The conversation where God 3 tries to get concessions from God 1 or God 2 could be interesting.
On Hel I assume she wants to destory the world that would not count as mortals dying in battle and so if the souls survive they would be Hel's.
Skiclub
2015-08-10, 07:52 AM
Wait, if the world is destroyed by the gods does that count an an honorable death for a dwarf? Would Hel have a claim on the soul of every dwarf if a yes vote goes through?
Breccia
2015-08-10, 07:53 AM
Hmm. So, Hel wants to bring Thor to his knees, and is using the Godsmoot to do it. Moving all the people to a new world doesn't seem to help Hel in any useful way. Flat-out blowing up the planet could load Hel down with a ton of followers, all at once. But would the rest of the gods of the north go for such a plan? Unmaking the world, and "erasing" all its inhabitants, would mean they didn't die, and therefore, Hel loses.
And I still don't know what HPoH's purpose actually is. He can't possibly overrule everyone else at once, even with a couple more vamped minions. Is this going to be a situation where the vote must be unanimous? Or is Durkula going to collapse the building, have the only vote left, and win?
And how would things be different if Redcloak knew about this meeting?
Man, I'm really hyped to see where this is going.
Calemyr
2015-08-10, 07:57 AM
Yeah, sure, why not? We can afford a brief detour into the mountains. I mean, this has the feel of a sidequest, after all, not anything important...
Wouldn't it be funny if, after everything that's happened, Hel simply wants to protest the raw amount of paperwork an end of the world solution would cause?
McNum
2015-08-10, 07:58 AM
...what?
I expected a lot of things could happen at the Godsmoot. This was not one of them.
Well played, Giant! Well played indeed. I look forward to seeing where this is going.
Deepbluediver
2015-08-10, 08:03 AM
... I'm kind of surprised to see this as mostly the Northern Pantheon, though, with only Veldrina as the dedicated Western + Elven Pantheon representative and no indication of any Southern one.
Maybe you just can't see all of them? I meant that guy with the strips on his head looks like he could be from another style of worship.
I originally thought this was supposed to be a godsmoot for representatives of ALL the deities anyway, but then someone pointed out to me that in another strips it says just clerics of the northern gods. I guess they expanded the invite list this year given the seriousness of the itinerary to be discussed.
Kilo24
2015-08-10, 08:07 AM
This strip just inspired a theory. If the gods have been preparing to possibly destroy the world, is the world inside the gates a replacement they've been working on? There's no detectable life on it; that might be the very thing that they need to destroy the current world to create.
zinycor
2015-08-10, 08:12 AM
I wonder why the voting is necessary at all. Can't the gods have their own meeting to decide about that little issue? The clerics are apparently just relaying the opinion of their god anyway, so this seems like an unnecessary step.
Probbly the gods need that the mortals do something on the mortal relm in order to destroy the world. I don't think destroying the whole world would be easy, not even to the gods.
Taffimai
2015-08-10, 08:12 AM
I am marking this moment as the time I remembered that Belkar is a follower of Banjo, which I dearly hope will come into play sometime soon during this meeting, either to save him or allow him to cast a vote. Because OOTS is awesome with little details like that.
Sorry if this has been debated to death already, I am often late to the party and don't keep up with this forum enough.
Vinyadan
2015-08-10, 08:16 AM
This is heavy, Doc!
greatscott
2015-08-10, 08:17 AM
I now suspect that the Godsmoot rules allow for a loophole. The Stone Creed priests turned vampires are now technically Priests of Hel and will be allowed to vote in her stead, despite that having never been the intent.
I would be very very surprised if it was 1 cleric, 1 vote. 1 God, 1 vote makes much more sense.
Perhaps some variant on votes proportional to followers (which would seriously limit Hel), but no way could you pack the Godsmoot with low level clerics and win the "vote"
Jay R
2015-08-10, 08:18 AM
..., they are presumably leaving this decision to their clerics, as the agreement says they must.
That's not what he said.
"attest to the wills of our respective deities"
"we shall convey our patron's Yea or Nay"
I assume after the discussion, the priests will get instructions from their gods.
Kaytara
2015-08-10, 08:28 AM
From 276 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html):
Shojo: "Right. [Soon & Co.] agreed it was best to not let things deteriorate to the point where the gods felt they had no choice but to destroy the world to rebuild the prison."
You know, time and again, I've seen foreshadowing in action in OotS.
But every time, it still blows my goddamn mind.
Grey_Wolf_c
2015-08-10, 08:31 AM
I'm guessing that the vote is to determine the will of the Northern gods, and that the representatives of other Pantheons are here only to observe the result. In the end, I suspect that each Pantheon gets one vote - and that narrative convenience means the other two pantheons already voted one in favour, the other against, and Northern Pantheon is the tie breaker vote. Indeed, I'd expect that Hell will be in a position to cast the deciding vote that no-one expected because she has never attended the meeting before.
Grey Wolf
kierthos
2015-08-10, 08:35 AM
As has already been said, this is neutral ground so the high priests may convey the will of their respective gods.
And that's kind of how it needs to play out, when you think about it.
I mean, okay, Odin knows how he's going to vote, right? And Thor knows how he's going to vote, assuming someone can get him to pay attention long enough. And so on through the Northern Gods. But Odin doesn't necessarily know how Thor is going to vote, and he almost certainly doesn't know how Loki is going to vote. And it's almost certainly going to be a surprise to a lot of people that there is a High Priest of Hel in attendance.
Now, multiply the problems of having one pantheon gather to try and sort this out by a factor of three. Three major pantheons, some of whom have the same sphere of influence as other Gods. Okay, for all we know, Adad the Thunderer and Thor will get along just fine. Buuuuut they might not.
Safer all around.
Now, here's one... was Malack the High Priest of Nergal? If he hadn't been destroyed, would he be at the Godsmoot?
Ivrytwr
2015-08-10, 08:36 AM
A call back to a previously seen cleric! Like the bodyguarding wearing a kilt!
Roy's powers of observation are still up to snuff.
Interesting ... the gods don't gather and decide for themselves to end the world? Leave it to the respective worldly-representatives?
Hmmm, I'm thinking ... I'm thinking ... hmmm
Has Team Evil already grabbed control of the last gate?
Thanks Giant.
HalfTangible
2015-08-10, 08:37 AM
...
Ya know
I figured the gates would come up at the godsmoot.
I figured that they'd probably even be the reason for it.
... But I did not expect that these guys would immediately vote on whether or not to blow up the world.
HandofShadows
2015-08-10, 08:39 AM
That's ONE way to get people's attention. :smalleek:
Vinsfeld
2015-08-10, 08:40 AM
*dun dun DUUUUUUUUUN*
ramakidin
2015-08-10, 08:45 AM
Outstanding, Belkar's death will go unnoticed while the entire world is unmade.
kierthos
2015-08-10, 08:49 AM
Outstanding, Belkar's death will go unnoticed while the entire world is unmade.
Did you find a body?
I'm sorry, so the last you saw him, he was "falling to his certain death" into a crevasse after being hurled out of a temple on top of a mountain.
Oh yes, he's dead.
We'll certainly never see Belkar again.
Bustamouse
2015-08-10, 08:50 AM
I don't think unmaking the world just sends everyone peacefully to the afterlife. I think unmaking the world involves no more afterlifes. Everyone, living and dead, will be wiped from existence.
I feel like the Gods have reached this point to save their own skins, they are willing to sacrifice all of creation so they don't have to worry about dying themselves. I don't think we're supposed to sympathize with the Gods here.
I still feel like the snarl is going to be revealed to not be this ultimate evil we have been led to believe and the Gods themselves seem rather corrupt and arbitrary. Maybe it's just my inner fight the power shining through.
Tiltowait
2015-08-10, 08:50 AM
It's interesting that HPOH, who knows Hel's plans, isn't acting like the world is ending. Taking time to "convert" a couple of clerics (i.e. inviting spirits from Hel's hall to come to the Material Plane and possess their corpses) doesn't make sense if you expect the world to disappear in half an hour. I wonder if Hel even knew about this world-destruction thing at all.
kierthos
2015-08-10, 08:51 AM
A call back to a previously seen cleric! Like the bodyguarding wearing a kilt!
Roy's powers of observation are still up to snuff.
Interesting ... the gods don't gather and decide for themselves to end the world? Leave it to the respective worldly-representatives?
Thanks Giant.
Er, no. According to the (presumed) High Priest of Odin, they are conveying the will of their respective Gods. I read that as HP of Odin will now say what Odin's decision is. Then the HP of Thor will say what Thor's decisions is, etc. (I would assume there's some deific mechanism in place, say an UBER-smite, if an HP decides, "Nah, screw what my God wants, Imma vote the other way.")
HendoJ
2015-08-10, 08:51 AM
Yep, ever since reading that in the commentary and seeing Roy in a place with so many people likely "in the know", I was wondering when the shoe was going to drop.
Looks like very, very soon.
The good thing being that Roy was perfectly aware of the potential consequences and the fact that he was balancing the unknown versus the known. The plan of HpoH may be to actually bring the responsible party to the moot to sway the decision in the 'favorable' manner.
Vectner
2015-08-10, 09:00 AM
Well that escalated quickly.
Sky_Schemer
2015-08-10, 09:06 AM
So. Does this make them the "ninth" side alluded to in #548 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html)?
_Jarlaxle_
2015-08-10, 09:12 AM
According to the (presumed) High Priest of Odin, they are conveying the will of their respective Gods. I read that as HP of Odin will now say what Odin's decision is. Then the HP of Thor will say what Thor's decisions is,
Yeah but why would the gods even do this in this complicated why through theirs priests instead of talking directly to each other?
FlumphPaladin
2015-08-10, 09:16 AM
Giant, how do you do it? This is fantastic.
EDIT: By "fantastic," I mean the storytelling and your bottomless capacity to blow my mind. The whole destroying-the-world thing, not so fantastic for the characters.
...Or is it? Is this another of your ingenious twists?
FlawedParadigm
2015-08-10, 09:21 AM
I should have seen this coming; if the Giant leave Belkar's fate ambiguous, like Thog's, then he can show up when least expected later. Although we may find out in a few strips anyhow, it may be more dramatic to leave it up in the air for awhile...just long enough for people to begin to think he is, in fact, dead offscreen.
Windscion
2015-08-10, 09:21 AM
Well, that escalated quickly.
The discussion will bring up the destroyed gates. Good thing the destroyers are available to testify (whether the priests want it or not).
High Priest list:
NORTHERN / ASGARD:
Odin: speaker with spear and eyepatch
Hoder: blind woman with staff
Freya: (probably blonde woman with circlet)
Thor: ?
Loki: ?
Hel: Durkula
For HP of Thor, I vote the female dwarf in armor and skullcap who gives Hippo the stink-eye. She would be the most likely to know and disapprove of his identity.
DavidBV
2015-08-10, 09:23 AM
Destroy the world would definitely solve all problems.
Except, no, in theory (in crayons), the world is the Snarl's prison.
Awesome strip, awesome arc, awesome awesomeness. Thanks Giant.
kierthos
2015-08-10, 09:27 AM
Yeah but why would the gods even do this in this complicated why through theirs priests instead of talking directly to each other?
Because some of the Gods don't like each other very much?
Let's just look at the Northern Pantheon.
Okay, can you have Odin and Thor in the same room without a fight breaking out between them. Probably.
But what about if Loki is in that same room? Or Hel? You have some diametrically opposed alignments (or at least diametrically opposed alignments of worshipers) in that mix.
Sure, some of the Gods might get along, but some of them probably don't. Then you have to throw in the fact that Thor, by all accounts in the comic, has ADHD, and it's hard to get anything done.
Now add in other pantheons.
Are Adad the Thunderer and Thor going to get along because they share a portfolio of storms? Or is it going to turn into a fight over who is the better storm god? Multiply that times every shared portfolio among the pantheons.
And where would you host such a meeting? Sure, if it was confined to just the Northern Pantheon making this decision, I'm sure Odin could set up a neutral meeting ground. But it's not confined to just them. All the major pantheons are in on this decision. And I'm pretty sure that the Southern Pantheon isn't going to feel like meeting in Asgard (as an example).
Finally, if the Snarl is actually breaking through into the world (as seen in the Western desert), then maybe hanging around the Prime Material Plane (or whatever it's called in the OotS-verse) isn't the smartest move for the various Gods. Hey, they have priests. Priests who do the will of the Gods. Yeah, that's the ticket! Let's call a meeting of High Priests to use as mouthpieces for this.
Problem "solved".
Arcuriel
2015-08-10, 09:28 AM
This strip just inspired a theory. If the gods have been preparing to possibly destroy the world, is the world inside the gates a replacement they've been working on? There's no detectable life on it; that might be the very thing that they need to destroy the current world to create.
That...
Actually makes a lot of sense.
ManuelSacha
2015-08-10, 09:30 AM
Why is everybody so certain that Durkula is turning the other priests?
So far, I saw him killing one, and... talking to the other one.
Granted, he had an ominous tone and everything, but we can't be sure he killed her, let alone turned her.
Am I missing something?
CarpeGuitarrem
2015-08-10, 09:35 AM
Welp. I guess that's what was at stake this entire time. Hel's gunning for Ragnarok.
kierthos
2015-08-10, 09:36 AM
Why is everybody so certain that Durkula is turning the other priests?
So far, I saw him killing one, and... talking to the other one.
Granted, he had an ominous tone and everything, but we can't be sure he killed her, let alone turned her.
Am I missing something?
Nope. We don't know for certain that he is turning the priests he's attacked into vampires, or if he was just feeling a bit peckish and following the dictates of his evil alignment and/or patron deity.
If he's not turning them into vampires/vampire spawn/whatever then he's definitely veering into Stupid Evil, IMO, because if he doesn't need to feed (which based on Roy's plan to sustain Durkula, he shouldn't need to), then he's deliberately antagonizing a gathering of priests for little apparent reason.
If he is turning them into vampires/vampire spawn to have backup after the meeting is over, then it's not Stupid Evil, possibly just stupid. (There's a huge difference between attacking a priest with no high level spells left, and attacking a priest with a lot of high level spells left.)
hroşila
2015-08-10, 09:39 AM
Why is everybody so certain that Durkula is turning the other priests?
So far, I saw him killing one, and... talking to the other one.
Granted, he had an ominous tone and everything, but we can't be sure he killed her, let alone turned her.
Am I missing something?
He killed that dude by draining all his blood. He's already vamped, it's just in the incubation period.
Gift Jeraff
2015-08-10, 09:40 AM
I think the high priestess glaring at Durkula is Thor's.
Martok
2015-08-10, 09:40 AM
Holy s***. Definitely did not see that coming at all. :smalleek: Well done, Giant!
Umbranar
2015-08-10, 09:41 AM
This strip just inspired a theory. If the gods have been preparing to possibly destroy the world, is the world inside the gates a replacement they've been working on? There's no detectable life on it; that might be the very thing that they need to destroy the current world to create.
THIS might be very true!
Svinary
2015-08-10, 09:43 AM
This strip just inspired a theory. If the gods have been preparing to possibly destroy the world, is the world inside the gates a replacement they've been working on? There's no detectable life on it; that might be the very thing that they need to destroy the current world to create.
We don't know much about the Snarl at all. There is presumably a planet beyond the gates: the whole unknown world. So the question is: which world is to be destroyed after the referendum?
(BTW: in #571 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) Oracle said, that he is to be raised on 26 march 1187. Does it mean that the world will still exist by then?).
Jaxzan Proditor
2015-08-10, 09:48 AM
Well, that could make resurrecting Durkon very difficult. :smalltongue: Seriously, though, did not see that one coming.
Also, for those curious as to why there are few representatives from other pantheons, I think Grey Wolf has it right in assuming the other pantheons had their own moots, possibly with observers like Veldrina.
foobar1969
2015-08-10, 09:54 AM
I agree with some others here. This is primarily a meeting of the Northern gods, with a single representative each from other pantheons.
Prediction: The other pantheons have already voted but are evenly split, leaving Asgard as the final tiebreaker. Veldrina is here to convey Yes (Wrecan: "WHAT‽‽‽‽") while the Southern guy brings a No.
Breccia
2015-08-10, 09:54 AM
This strip just inspired a theory. If the gods have been preparing to possibly destroy the world, is the world inside the gates a replacement they've been working on? There's no detectable life on it; that might be the very thing that they need to destroy the current world to create.
That seems to contradict what Redcloak said, if I remember correctly that is. I thought his deal was to give the gate/gates to the Dark One, so he could hold the world hostage in exchange for goblin-based demands. If the rest of the gods are interested in blowing open all the gates, I'm not sure that plan would work.
Course, maybe the Dark One doesn't know about the moot. Or a lot changed since Redcloak set this in motion. Either way, he wouldn't be happy to hear his time's been wasted.
Emperordaniel
2015-08-10, 09:57 AM
This is... dire.
Heksefatter
2015-08-10, 09:59 AM
And the Giant proves that he can still surprise me.
Giggling Ghast
2015-08-10, 09:59 AM
We learned back in 276 that the gods would need to destroy the world in order to remake the Snarl's prison.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 10:00 AM
Yeah but why would the gods even do this in this complicated why through theirs priests instead of talking directly to each other?
Because putting Thor and Hel (among other combinations) in the same "room" is not going to lead to amicable discussions.
kierthos
2015-08-10, 10:00 AM
That seems to contradict what Redcloak said, if I remember correctly that is. I thought his deal was to give the gate/gates to the Dark One, so he could hold the world hostage in exchange for goblin-based demands. If the rest of the gods are interested in blowing open all the gates, I'm not sure that plan would work.
Course, maybe the Dark One doesn't know about the moot. Or a lot changed since Redcloak set this in motion. Either way, he wouldn't be happy to hear his time's been wasted.
The Gods are under no obligation to keep the Dark One informed of what they are doing. I mean, they are pantheons that pre-date the current world, whereas the Dark One is a nouveau-Deity.
Or maybe they did tell the Dark One, and that was the whole point of the Dark One's message (via Jirix) of "Don't screw this up."
Kolhammer
2015-08-10, 10:03 AM
I wonder who the representative of Loki is.
Ellye
2015-08-10, 10:04 AM
Okay... that was unexpected.
And it makes perfect sense still.
Fantastic.
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 10:06 AM
I wonder who the representative of Loki is.
I vote for goatee guy from panel #3. Red holy symbol.
endur
2015-08-10, 10:12 AM
If the world is destroyed before the end of the year, Belkar's Last Breath prophesy will come true.
But Elan's happy ending prophesy will not come true.
Grey Pilgrim
2015-08-10, 10:12 AM
Wow, I never expected Odin to have a high priestess. Dunno why, but I instantly liked her.
As for the High Priest list, my tips are:
*original post*
NORTHERN / ASGARD:
Odinn: speaker with spear and eyepatch (pretty sure)
Hoddr: blind woman with staff (confirmed)
Hel: Durkula (duh)
Freya: probably blonde woman with circlet and bareback dress
Thor: maybe dwarf woman in full plate wearing metal cap
Loki: black beard dwarf with vest
Heimdallr: horned helm, dark skin, red tabard (seen in gnome city)
Bragi: red haired man with blue robe (as he has no weapon save staff and was travelling with presumed priests of Heimdallr and Hoddr)
?: brown beard dwarf with hat
?: brown haired halfling with five o'clock shade
Ellye
2015-08-10, 10:15 AM
Wat...
"(...) the gods of the three pantheons should immediatly thereupon destroy the world."
I have missed that "immediatly" there on my first read. Uh-oh, we might actually have something big for strip #1000.
ORione
2015-08-10, 10:19 AM
I am marking this moment as the time I remembered that Belkar is a follower of Banjo, which I dearly hope will come into play sometime soon during this meeting, either to save him or allow him to cast a vote. Because OOTS is awesome with little details like that.
Sorry if this has been debated to death already, I am often late to the party and don't keep up with this forum enough.
Belkar left the church of Banjo. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html)
Now, here's one... was Malack the High Priest of Nergal? If he hadn't been destroyed, would he be at the Godsmoot?
No, because Nergal is a Western deity, and Veldrina is representing the entire Western pantheon.
Hmm... if the speculation that the other pantheons already had moots is correct, maybe he was at the Western one. Although I bet that the moots were called after the fourth gate was destroyed, so maybe not.
137beth
2015-08-10, 10:20 AM
Well, that answers all the speculation as to whether the gods were taking notice of the rifts.
Anomander
2015-08-10, 10:20 AM
I've got to say that the structure of the strip was starting to annoy me - cutting back and forth so much from the cleric speaker to Roy.
And then POW!
The final reveal blew me away and made the whole cut-back-and-forth thing absolutely perfect!
Major kudos for a brilliantly designed flow of conversations and panels.
KABOOM!
Heenett
2015-08-10, 10:26 AM
I don't know if someone already said that, but I'm thinking of two things:
1) If someone saw Belkar falling, he could be saved if V used the orb of teleport to get to him. It is a live or die situation, after all.
2) It would make sense for Redcloak to be there. I mean, Xykon probably doesn't need any help going though Kraagor's gate, or at least it's first levels, and it could be important for him to go, he wants the world to remain intact, after all. And he can teleport.
I don't know what Hel wants, though. It makes sense for her to get the world destroyed, because the amount of dwarves that would die out of battle would be staggering, she could become pretty powerful. But I don't get her plan with the vampires and all.
NihhusHuotAliro
2015-08-10, 10:26 AM
:eek::eek::eek:I hope at least Veldrina will vote against the destruction of the world.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 10:27 AM
I've got to say that the structure of the strip was starting to annoy me - cutting back and forth so much from the cleric speaker to Roy.
And then POW!
The final reveal blew me away and made the whole cut-back-and-forth thing absolutely perfect!
Major kudos for a brilliantly designed flow of conversations and panels.
KABOOM!
Yeah, the Giant is a genius with the way he stages the panels and their layouts. Dude knows how to deliver a reveal, that's for sure.
ChillerInstinct
2015-08-10, 10:33 AM
I wondered if the gods might be willing to play THAT card with one gate in play and the Order's pretty laughable record in the whole "protect this thing" department. With Xykon at the final gate, the Snarl leaking out at least one of the broken Gates (side note: I have a feeling Gobbotopia is going to pay dearly for its proximity to the Azure City rift), and the fate of pretty much everything in the balance, pulling the trigger on the world definitely seems like a reasonable option... though narrative dictates it won't happen.
Presumably with the army of Vamps I'm predicting, Hel will be voting against. Then again, if death by world poofing counts as a dishonourable death and the souls of those on it still make it to an afterlife, it'd certainly cause her numbers to swell...
NihhusHuotAliro
2015-08-10, 10:35 AM
Third panel: High priest of Hoder.
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 10:36 AM
I wondered if the gods might be willing to play THAT card with one gate in play and the Order's pretty laughable record in the whole "protect this thing" department. With Xykon at the final gate, the Snarl leaking out at least one of the broken Gates (side note: I have a feeling Gobbotopia is going to pay dearly for its proximity to the Azure City rift), and the fate of pretty much everything in the balance, pulling the trigger on the world definitely seems like a reasonable option... though narrative dictates it won't happen.
Presumably with the army of Vamps I'm predicting, Hel will be voting against. Then again, if death by world poofing counts as a dishonourable death and the souls of those on it still make it to an afterlife, it'd certainly cause her numbers to swell...
Remember: the Snarl destroys souls. If the gods destroy the world, it may simply destroy the souls of those in proximity to the Snarl.
LuisDantas
2015-08-10, 10:47 AM
Does Surtur get a priest?
I don't think so. I'm fairly sure that there is no cult, no priests, no acknowledgement as a god for Surtur. He is basically a fire demon - a way for Thor and friends to earn XP. Basically a glorified goblin.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 10:52 AM
I don't know if someone already said that, but I'm thinking of two things:
2) It would make sense for Redcloak to be there. I mean, Xykon probably doesn't need any help going though Kraagor's gate, or at least it's first levels, and it could be important for him to go, he wants the world to remain intact, after all. And he can teleport.
While not impossible, I wouldn't expect Redcloak to be there. He has his own agenda, I don't imagine he cares too much what's going on with the Northern Pantheon, nor would I expect him to get an invite to the godsmoot. Also, I'm not sure Xykon would let Redcloak out of his sight--there's not a lot of trust between them right at this moment.
sotanaht
2015-08-10, 10:59 AM
Roy you idiot, stop assuming anything NPCs say is irrelevant, and pay attention!
I read that as "stop assuming anything NPCs say is relevant". It would probably be more accurate in the long run, but only on a meta level.
The Pilgrim
2015-08-10, 10:59 AM
So...
comic 998 will present the arguments...
comic 999 will be the vote...
and comic 1000 can bring the story to an unexpected end. :smallamused:
I don't see the Giant being this cruel, but it would certainly be an interesting outcome. :smalltongue:
It would certainly fulfill the Oracle's prophecy on Belkar. A bit of overkill, though.
luna the cat
2015-08-10, 11:01 AM
now is the time for the high priest of banjo to appear and make a rousing speech to move the gods themselves :P
JenBurdoo
2015-08-10, 11:05 AM
Wasn't plan B historically to run away? :o
Plan B can also mean "OK, sneaking/diplomacy/convoluted-plan has failed, let's just kill everyone."
And some players like to just skip to Plan B.
Lheticus
2015-08-10, 11:06 AM
What I want to know is, what does this revelation mean for the motive of the HPOH's actions to this point?
Kilo24
2015-08-10, 11:10 AM
That seems to contradict what Redcloak said, if I remember correctly that is. I thought his deal was to give the gate/gates to the Dark One, so he could hold the world hostage in exchange for goblin-based demands. If the rest of the gods are interested in blowing open all the gates, I'm not sure that plan would work.
Course, maybe the Dark One doesn't know about the moot. Or a lot changed since Redcloak set this in motion. Either way, he wouldn't be happy to hear his time's been wasted.
I don't think that the rest of the gods are necessarily interested in blowing open all of the gates even if they want to destroy the world. The desire to destroy the world immediately suggests that they're quite desperate to not have the last gate get destroyed too, or at least destroyed in a way that might release the Snarl. They might even need to rely on the last gate existing to safely make a new world and/or destroy this one.
In any case, I'm sure that the Dark One considers all the attention on the last gate to be a bad thing, as would the world getting destroyed before he could secure leverage. Redcloak is probably under a lot of pressure right now from more than Xykon.
We still don't know much. We didn't even know that the gods were aware of the gates' destruction until now. I presume that we're going to get a lot more information in the next few strips on what that means for the gods, as well as what Hel (and unlikely, but possibly the Dark One) intends to do about it. Maybe Hel is trying to seize control of the gate and defend it with her new vampire priesthood - something that suggests that she wants the world saved. Or maybe she's trying to end the world so that she can negotiate a better deal for her priests in the next one, and is either lying to her high priest about his upcoming position or she can keep him in the new world.
Killer Angel
2015-08-10, 11:13 AM
LOL.
some strip are priceless. :smallbiggrin:
Snails
2015-08-10, 11:16 AM
Plan B can also mean "OK, sneaking/diplomacy/convoluted-plan has failed, let's just kill everyone."
And some players like to just skip to Plan B.
Like, yes. But simply killing everyone would make the DM cry.
Myself and my fellow players refer to the violent route as "Plan A". Only we start with the less desired path as Plan B, with all that tedious talking. So when diplomacy breaks down, as is often does, we get gleeful calls of "Let's go with Plan A!"
Snails
2015-08-10, 11:18 AM
BTW, this was a completely awesome strip, with the build up and the reveal.
And quite logical. Simply destroying the world and starting over is a logical choice, rather than risk the wrong group getting ahold of the last Gate and possibly exploiting it. I just never imagined in a million years that exact wording coming out of the mouth of a HPoOdin, but in context it makes plenty of sense (it is not his proposal).
Windscion
2015-08-10, 11:23 AM
That seems to contradict what Redcloak said, if I remember correctly that is. I thought his deal was to give the gate/gates to the Dark One, so he could hold the world hostage in exchange for goblin-based demands. If the rest of the gods are interested in blowing open all the gates, I'm not sure that plan would work.
Course, maybe the Dark One doesn't know about the moot. Or a lot changed since Redcloak set this in motion. Either way, he wouldn't be happy to hear his time's been wasted.
In Start of Darkness Recloak notes that if the world is destroyed, a new world will be created. And the new world's design will include input from the Dark One, who will insist on a better deal for goblinoids. That would not make Redcloak's crusade a waste of time. Team Evil has precipitated this crisis. While not the original goal, this would still be a win (of sorts) for the Dark One.
Rogar Demonblud
2015-08-10, 11:25 AM
Okay, I did NOT see that coming. The look on my face matches Roy and Wrecan.
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 11:27 AM
now is the time for the high priest of banjo to appear and make a rousing speech to move the gods themselves :P
Elan's speechmaking abilities are not necessarily wonderful.
Flickerdart
2015-08-10, 11:28 AM
Prediction for next 3 strips: the clerics vote Yes, the world is undone, Order of the Stick ends at #1000. :smallamused:
joosy
2015-08-10, 11:30 AM
This is heavy, Doc!
There's that word again: "heavy." Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?
Keltest
2015-08-10, 11:30 AM
First, let me say that I approve of any and all kilts, and encourage Rich to further explore that culture, as it can only lead to good things.
Anyway...
Eek! I mean, it was kind of obvious in retrospect, but still. Eek!
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 11:36 AM
I'm gonna throw something out ...
Because I had a random thought which no one has raised yet ...
Does destroying the world necessarily mean destroying all the people?
The gods destroy the world but somehow translate the people to the new world - and the story continues in the new world as Xykon is still out there and still must be dealt with.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 11:41 AM
I'm gonna throw something out ...
Because I had a random thought which no one has raised yet ...
Does destroying the world necessarily mean destroying all the people?
The gods destroy the world but somehow translate the people to the new world - and the story continues in the new world as Xykon is still out there and still must be dealt with.
While I suppose it's somewhat possible, it seems that would lessen the decision's dramatic impact and, I'd think, kind of kill the momentum and urgency of the story (not to mention make all this build up a waste of time).
It'd be a serious anticlimax and seems extremely unlikely to me.
DungeonDelver
2015-08-10, 11:43 AM
I wonder though. People talk about the prophecies unveiled by the Oracle and how that might mean that it won't get destroyed, but the Oracle's divinations are revealed by his god. Said god may not be telling him everything, or his visions might only apply to the timeline of the current world. It's possible that either he wasn't told, or the timeline of his visions will get completely superseded by the destruction of the world.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 11:47 AM
I wonder though. People talk about the prophecies unveiled by the Oracle and how that might mean that it won't get destroyed, but the Oracle's divinations are revealed by his god. Said god may not be telling him everything, or his visions might only apply to the timeline of the current world. It's possible that either he wasn't told, or the timeline of his visions will get completely superseded by the destruction of the world.
But wouldn't that negate the point of using prophecy as a storytelling device?
Zaclock
2015-08-10, 11:49 AM
Some people say that the inside planet is possibly the replacement planet for the future. I haven't really followed planet theories, but I have another (that has probably been suggested by someone already).
What if the inside planet is actually the planet that the Snarl is said to having undone? The Gods might have "sacrificed" it to emprison the Snarl, as Shojo's story says, but added to the story that the Snarl had previously undone the planet in order to get their followers to agree with their action and not be repulsed by it. Based on the Snarl's origin, it would make sense that It would be more interested in killing the gods than killing the gods' creation.
The proposal debated at the Godsmoot would then be the equivalent of "weaving a new planet around the current one [and the Snarl]", as they already did once (if my theory is right). For the gods, and for the high priests who know about all this, such a decision might be synonymous with ending life on the current planet and thus "destroying the world".
DungeonDelver
2015-08-10, 11:50 AM
But wouldn't that negate the point of using prophecy as a storytelling device?
Yes and no, the prophecies have been a reliable storytelling device, and they've been fuel for a lot of the speculation the series has undergone. Unmaking those prophecies might feel a bit cheap, but there's a sensible explanation for why they would be voided now.
After all, if the gods knew about a plan to break the world, they wouldn't necessarily tell an Oracle about it. Or if they did, he might have been sworn to secrecy on the matter.
Malexia
2015-08-10, 11:51 AM
Hmm. I'm wondering if the Dark One's high priest will be invited to this moot.
FlumphPaladin
2015-08-10, 11:53 AM
So here's a prediction I'm weaving from the different strands in this thread. Belkar is not long for the world, as the Oracle said, and will draw his last breath thereon before the end of the year. He shall, therefore pass--alive--into the water world visible through the gate.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 12:00 PM
Yes and no, the prophecies have been a reliable storytelling device, and they've been fuel for a lot of the speculation the series has undergone. Unmaking those prophecies might feel a bit cheap, but there's a sensible explanation for why they would be voided now.
After all, if the gods knew about a plan to break the world, they wouldn't necessarily tell an Oracle about it. Or if they did, he might have been sworn to secrecy on the matter.
Still, though. From a narrative standpoint, what does the author gain by negating the prophecies yet to be fulfilled?
Especially since Rich is on the record as saying that Elan's prophecy was more or less meant as a comfort to the audience that even if things get pretty dark in the story, eventually, OotS will turn out okay (for him, at least :smalltongue:).
DungeonDelver
2015-08-10, 12:02 PM
Still, though. From a narrative standpoint, what does the author gain by negating the prophecies yet to be fulfilled?
Especially since Rich is on the record as saying that Elan's prophecy was more or less meant as a comfort to the audience that even if things get pretty dark in the story, eventually, OotS will turn out okay (for him, at least :smalltongue:).
Well, look at it this way. End of the world prophecies are a time-honored narrative tradition, what if a prophecy-filled series had a world-ending event that wasn't predicted? lol
Malfarian
2015-08-10, 12:07 PM
All my ideas were wrong ...
I've thought for awhile that
Belkar would become a vampire (hence no more breathing),
That the Oracle made money off retirement plans and didn't want to pay Belkar for an eternity ...
That baring being a vampire Belkar would be made into a construct of some sort, hence the reason for Grubwiggler's return to screen.
The Godsmoot would reveal Durkula's duplicity BUT assign the party the task of guarding the last gate with HPoH's help ... (could still happen)
Man this story is GREAT!
PS What determines the emoticon in the thread's title?
D.One
2015-08-10, 12:11 PM
... Belkar is not long for the world, as the Oracle said...
It seems, by the looks of it, that maybe it's the world that won't be long for Belkar...
Father Miles
2015-08-10, 12:11 PM
Well, that could make resurrecting Durkon very difficult. :smalltongue: Seriously, though, did not see that one coming.
Also, for those curious as to why there are few representatives from other pantheons, I think Grey Wolf has it right in assuming the other pantheons had their own moots, possibly with observers like Veldrina.
Veldrina seems to be taking in pretty lightly considering the subject matter. So I am guessing that the Western pantheon voted not to destroy while the Southern voted to destroy.
D.One
2015-08-10, 12:16 PM
On another note, Roy's and Wrecan's expressions in the last panel are priceless!
kenlund
2015-08-10, 12:18 PM
There should be a cut to Elan for a panel next comic. It seems like he should sense a dramatic plot development of this magnitude. Kind of like Obi wan feeling the death of Alderaan.
Anarion
2015-08-10, 12:18 PM
I'm strangely pleased to see that someone other than the Order of the Stick and their antagonists is paying attention to this whole Snarl/Gate thing (I assume. Unless they want to destroy the world for unrelated reasons. But that would be bad.)
Sniffnoy
2015-08-10, 12:19 PM
It's possible that Hel gets the deciding vote but merely intends to threaten to destroy the world, i.e., trade her vote for favors from the nay side. (Or the opposite!)
Euclidodese
2015-08-10, 12:22 PM
This is awesome!... This is just awesome!
This right here *Points to strip* ... ... It's awesome.
I wonder if Veldrina gets loads of proxy-votes for representing all those different gods.
Doug Lampert
2015-08-10, 12:24 PM
We don't know much about the Snarl at all. There is presumably a planet beyond the gates: the whole unknown world. So the question is: which world is to be destroyed after the referendum?
(BTW: in #571 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) Oracle said, that he is to be raised on 26 march 1187. Does it mean that the world will still exist by then?).
Elan also gets a happy ending.
[SPOILER]The world doesn't end here. Rich has said he has the current book and one more to go, this isn't the end[/SPOILER)
Oh drat, I goofed up the final bracket on the warning! Now everyone will know!
Snails
2015-08-10, 12:25 PM
Does destroying the world necessarily mean destroying all the people?
The gods destroy the world but somehow translate the people to the new world - and the story continues in the new world as Xykon is still out there and still must be dealt with.
If such were practical, why was it not done long ago?
It was implied by the Scribble Tale that the Scribblers pondered this question, and concluded that the gods, because of pity or self-interest, considered it impractical to demolish the existing world, presumably because of all those people living on it. Of course, even if you accept my statement here as correct, it is also implied that the gods considered the possibility of destroying the world in the past, and simply decided to avoid doing so, at least not until someone might actually point a godeating monster at their heads.
Crusher
2015-08-10, 12:26 PM
Well, that seems bad.
grandpheonix
2015-08-10, 12:28 PM
Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNN!!!!!
HalfTangible
2015-08-10, 12:28 PM
I'm strangely pleased to see that someone other than the Order of the Stick and their antagonists is paying attention to this whole Snarl/Gate thing (I assume. Unless they want to destroy the world for unrelated reasons. But that would be bad.)
Rule #2 of storytelling is to be economical with your plot lines and plot points. It's extremely unlikely that Rich is dropping a second 'world might end' plot on top of the first one and tie it into the order through Durkon, especially this late in the game.
Father Miles
2015-08-10, 12:29 PM
In 987, Veldrina said she cannot figure out why the moot was called on short notice. So is this a surprise topic, maybe she is supposed to commune at the moot to get direction?
Prowl
2015-08-10, 12:30 PM
Seems like an ideal setup for Roy and perhaps V and Blackwing to interrupt the arguments and provide some new information to the debate.
Veldrina seems to be taking in pretty lightly considering the subject matter. So I am guessing that the Western pantheon voted not to destroy while the Southern voted to destroy.
Veldrina also seems to be... not entirely in command of her mental faculties, at least in the normal sense of the the word. So I wouldn't base any logical assumptions on her behavior.
deimos3428
2015-08-10, 12:36 PM
That's ONE way to get people's attention. :smalleek:
It's possible, though unlikely, that the High Priest of Odin is just opening the moot with an attention-grabbing joke.
Crusher
2015-08-10, 12:37 PM
So, if Hel is the deciding gote to not destroy the world and Durkula is sent with the party to save the gate, I suppose Belkar will spend the next book secretly tracking the Order, waiting for his moment. Durkula will help the party, but occasionally create some spawn and wreak havoc when he can get away with it. Which is what, I think, happened with the earth priest. I dont think his death was part of Hel's plan, I think he was just a free target that Durkula got a chande to take out.
Sir_Leorik
2015-08-10, 12:42 PM
Wow. That was a surprise! :smalleek:
Hel and her High Priest have obviously known about this godsmoot in advance; could they have known about the subject matter? Veldrina obviously didn't know about it, despite representing all of the Western and Elven pantheons.
Now here's another hypothesis I had: did the IFCC members know that this would happen if Roy destroyed Girard's Gate? Was that why they removed V from play when they did?
Anyway, can't wait to see where things go next!
First, let me say that I approve of any and all kilts, and encourage Rich to further explore that culture, as it can only lead to good things.
Yes!
I've tried to steer the discussion into jubilation about the increased amount of kilts, but for some reason, these people seem to think things like plots and world-destroying is more important.
But it's a kilt!
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 12:53 PM
Yes!
I've tried to steer the discussion into jubilation about the increased amount of kilts, but for some reason, these people seem to think things like plots and world-destroying is more important.
But it's a kilt!
You know, I'll be honest--I've never understood the fondness some people have for kilts! That said, I'm very happy for you both that you have derived such joy from the sight of one ^^
Porthos
2015-08-10, 12:55 PM
Score one for Team "This About the Snarl" then. :smallamused:
...
Oh, yeah. Point scoring might not matter soon with the pronoucement. :smallwink:
Makes me wonder if the representatives of the other pantheons have already been briefed about their pantheon's wishes and/or they will commune with them to get their views on the matter.
Alex Warlorn
2015-08-10, 01:05 PM
All but one of the gates destroyed. The last one is besieged or taken over by a power mad rich and a cleric of a god who wants to use the Snarl for black mail.
The Snarl is another slithering into reality through at least one of them.
Wanting to have all the souls present DIE rather than OBLITERATED, and stopping the Snarl from rampaging across reality is looking more and more like the SANE option!
Ironically if the world is destroyed the Dark One gets what he wants and a hand in creating the NEW world.
Mandrake
2015-08-10, 01:06 PM
Wasn't plan B historically to run away? :o
Actually, it was to set stuff on fire.
And when you think about it, world = stuff. :smallsmile:
Keltest
2015-08-10, 01:08 PM
Rule #2 of storytelling is to be economical with your plot lines and plot points. It's extremely unlikely that Rich is dropping a second 'world might end' plot on top of the first one and tie it into the order through Durkon, especially this late in the game.
For all intents and purposes the "world-destruction" threat from Redcloak's plan has realistically always been this. It isn't a new plot, its the same one throwing us a curveball.
Ironically if the world is destroyed the Dark One gets what he wants and a hand in creating the NEW world.
That's not ironic, that's a deliberate part of the Plan. The whole point is that pushing for the gates leaves a variety of ways in which the Dark One gets what he wants. Pretty much the only way he doesn't come out on top is if the other gods all collectively punish him for trying to pull something like this.
You know, I'll be honest--I've never understood the fondness some people have for kilts! That said, I'm very happy for you both that you have derived such joy from the sight of one ^^
You have clearly never worn one.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 01:14 PM
You have clearly never worn one.
True, I haven't. Is it like wearing a skirt? Skirts are quite comfortable... I'm not sure why more men haven't adopted them for that reason, actually. I like 'em!
Is the fondness for kilts, then, just that they're similar to skirts that a fellow like me won't get beat up for wearing? I can get behind that!
FlumphPaladin
2015-08-10, 01:15 PM
It's possible, though unlikely, that the High Priest of Odin is just opening the moot with an attention-grabbing joke.
The first vote in every godsmoot since the first time the gods decided not to destroy the world! The opening ceremony actually consists of saying that you're dispensing with opening ceremonies!
ti'esar
2015-08-10, 01:16 PM
Um.
Yeah.
I'm pretty much feeling like Roy and Wrecan here.
Is that guy talking to Veldrina the delegate from the Southern Pantheon?
Malfarian
2015-08-10, 01:23 PM
Predictions ...
Roy will find Belkar's Daggers (which Belkar realized too late he'd dropped, you can see him trying to dig in with them) and piece together what happened, however he'll be unable to do anything about it.
Mal
PS The new rate of comics is wonderful and should this new rate simply be a way for the Giant to wrap up the strip and move onto other projects or areas of his life, I'll just say now, Thank you!
rewinn
2015-08-10, 01:24 PM
All but one of the gates destroyed. The last one is besieged or taken over by a power mad rich ....
...Is that any way to refer to the author ? :smallbiggrin:
Kobold-Bard
2015-08-10, 01:24 PM
Well then....wasn't expecting that.
Surely destroying the world would destroy the remaining gate though?
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 01:26 PM
Well then....wasn't expecting that.
Surely destroying the world would destroy the remaining gate though?
Sure, but then they can just remake the world anew like they did the last time. Maybe every thousand or so years they'll need to do this! Tear down the weakening world, then build a new one. It's not like the Snarl noticed them doing it before--well, not according to what Lord Shojo told us, though the accuracy of that story has certainly been called into question since those days :smalltongue:
Nosferatu
2015-08-10, 01:33 PM
Well, that escalated quickly...
And just in time for comic 1000!
blunk
2015-08-10, 01:38 PM
One presumes that the other pantheons are having their own Godsmoots (or functional equivalents)From the finality of the wording, my guess is that they've had their meetings and are tied 1-1.
I wonder why the voting is necessary at all. Can't the gods have their own meeting to decide about that little issue? The clerics are apparently just relaying the opinion of their god anyway, so this seems like an unnecessary step.Maybe voting is limited to gods with High Priests (and thus some proven amount of interest in/from the world).
(I would assume there's some deific mechanism in place, say an UBER-smite, if an HP decides, "Nah, screw what my God wants, Imma vote the other way.")I think the gods just jabber on the Internet for a couple days about doing away with the Electoral College and then go back to watching cat videos.
Lizard Lord
2015-08-10, 01:49 PM
So...since we have one person representing two whole Pantheons does that mean the decision will be pretty much up to her or does she only get one vote? :smallconfused:
Also funny how Redcloak wasn't invited. :smallamused:
Also should have seen this coming seeing as how they are now down to just one gate.
Keltest
2015-08-10, 01:51 PM
So...since we have one person representing two whole Pantheons does that mean the decision will be pretty much up to here or does she only get one vote? :smallconfused:
Also funny how Redcloak wasn't invited. :smallamused:
I agree with whoever said its likely that the West/elven and Southern pantheons already voted, and came up tied. She probably doesn't get a vote at all.
Malfarian
2015-08-10, 01:54 PM
So...since we have one person representing two whole Pantheons does that mean the decision will be pretty much up to her or does she only get one vote? :smallconfused:
Also funny how Redcloak wasn't invited. :smallamused:
Also should have seen this coming seeing as how they are now down to just one gate.
It's dangerous to assume Red Cloak wasn't invited, we've only seen a few of the attendees and he could still show up in a dramatic moment to cast the Dark One's vote.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 01:58 PM
I agree with whoever said its likely that the West/elven and Southern pantheons already voted, and came up tied. She probably doesn't get a vote at all.
Which makes sense, until she expressed surprised that the whole thing was convened on such short notice. Which might imply that she wasn't aware of what the moot was about. I suppose it'll all be clear within an update or two!
Mad Humanist
2015-08-10, 02:00 PM
I agree with whoever said its likely that the West/elven and Southern pantheons already voted, and came up tied. She probably doesn't get a vote at all.
I am more inclined to imagine that all three pantheons must agree and that the other two already have agreed. Veldrina will announce her pantheon's destroy decision with glee saying how exciting it is to be making history. Wrecan will be shoked. Durkon will interrupt the Northern vote to assert that there needs to be discussion, and that unless some adjstments are made, hel will vote destroy. Roy will be shocked.
Lord Raziere
2015-08-10, 02:04 PM
YES! I love lines like that that just change everything and blast you out of your comfort zone and into a world of "OH NO"
and suddenly, OOTS, Team Evil, and The High Priest of Hel all have good reason to team up. Unfortunately, Team Evil seems to be unaware of this proclamation. Unless Redcloak decides to make a surprise appearance.....wouldn't make sense for him not to do so to try and influence things here, since destruction of the world would interfere with his grand plan if he knew, and he is a high-level cleric, he should know bout the Godsmoot and what it does, and why would The Dark One not let Redcloak know that this kind of thing would happen if he goes through with the plan? The Dark One knows that if he can't move the Gate before the world is destroyed, he won't be able to threaten the gods.
but then again, considering that Redcloak's plan also includes what would happen if the world was destroyed and that The Dark One would have more of a say in how the new world would have more equality for goblins, they might both not care either way.
Porthos
2015-08-10, 02:05 PM
BTW, Roy has learned absolutely nothing from Elan. :smalltongue:
:roy: There is nothing anyone can say that will stop me from-
<High Priest of Odin?>: Destroy the world.
:elan: Well, come on Roy. What did you expect would happen when you say something like that?
pentagram
2015-08-10, 02:05 PM
"We seem to be tied, my fellow representatives, and so the fate of the world will be decided by a drawing of lots"
*CRASH*
"The Sexy Shoeless God of War says NAY!"
Well, one can dream....
HalfTangible
2015-08-10, 02:16 PM
It's dangerous to assume Red Cloak wasn't invited, we've only seen a few of the attendees and he could still show up in a dramatic moment to cast the Dark One's vote.
...
Why is everyone assuming that Xykon would let Redcloak go to this meeting even if he'd been invited? :smallwink:
TuringTest
2015-08-10, 02:18 PM
Um.
Yeah.
I'm pretty much feeling like Roy and Wrecan here.
The stakes, they are high!
Spoomeister
2015-08-10, 02:23 PM
It's dangerous to assume Red Cloak wasn't invited, we've only seen a few of the attendees and he could still show up in a dramatic moment to cast the Dark One's vote.
I thought the Dark One was specifically shunned by all the other gods. Hence his plan to take a gate to blackmail the gods into providing for all goblinkind. So I don't think Redcloak would even know about this because the Dark One wouldn't be invited.
I'm not as good with the lore of OOTS as most everyone else here, so someone can probably find the strip(s) that can prove me wrong here.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 02:28 PM
I think people presume that Redcloak has more autonomy than he really does.
I truly don't believe The Plan would be well served by him leaving Xykon to scoot off to a meeting for a few days. Xykon's patience with Redcloak is already pretty thin. Even if, somehow, Redcloak did get an invitation there, I don't believe Xykon would let him go.
D.One
2015-08-10, 02:32 PM
"We seem to be tied, my fellow representatives, and so the fate of the world will be decided by a drawing of lots"
*CRASH*
:belkar:"The Sexy Shoeless God of War says NAY!"
:elan: Banjo also says NAY!
L0rv-
2015-08-10, 02:35 PM
I think people presume that Redcloak has more autonomy than he really does.
I truly don't believe The Plan would be well served by him leaving Xykon to scoot off to a meeting for a few days. Xykon's patience with Redcloak is already pretty thin. Even if, somehow, Redcloak did get an invitation there, I don't believe Xykon would let him go.
Only way he'd show up is with permission from Xykon.
"Hey, Xykon. The Gods are trying to end the world, which means you can't rule it."
"Friggin Gods. You promise it's only a pit stop? I've got things to explode and people to kill."
ti'esar
2015-08-10, 02:39 PM
I don't know whether it's a compliment to the Giant's writing or not that some people here seem to think the comic is actually going to end with the world being destroyed in three strips.
I think the gods just jabber on the Internet for a couple days about doing away with the Electoral College and then go back to watching cat videos.
Can I sig this?
Spoomeister
2015-08-10, 02:41 PM
Let me also say right now that I would respect the hell out of Rich if this is just about it. I.e. if as has been some speculation about already, this is engineered to bring the entire story to a close at #1000 after 3 double- or triple-sized updates.
Some sort of climactic battle at the final gate, after X and R might have had ample time to fortify it given that they went straight there almost a book's worth ago, is looking more and more like the easy way out and/or obvious conclusion. In keeping with telling a different story, and the larger themes Rich might want to touch on, perhaps a straightforward showdown at the final gate just feels too cliche.
A massive reset of the world, as metacommentary on long-running campaigns that sometimes need to begin anew, could be done very well. And all the various characters, plotlines, prophecies and possibilities we've seen for hundreds of strips and so many years, become part of what made the main story so engrossing. I.e. it's a living and breathing world with characters that have lives and motivations of their own, and aren't simply there to make Our Heroes(tm) look better. In that sense, there's nothing 'wrong', 'unfinished' or even unsatisfying about e.g. never coming back to V's Soul Splice or similar plot lines ever again.
What better way to demonstrate that it's not all about the OOTS, and never was, than by having larger events around them intervene?
And in a non-story sense...
...it gives Rich the flexibility to wrap up what he needs to from the Kickstarter, take the Dragon magazine strips where he wants them to go. And he can basically revisit OOTS at any time, since the planet-within-the-rift might be where the whole of creation migrates to, as has been speculated here. He can essentially do a gritty-reboot / sequel of his own story, on his own terms and timeline. Or perhaps it's not as final as that, and strip 1000 is where the gods rend the planet asunder in one spectacular splash panel... with the simple, modest end panel of "The Order of the Stick Will Return in 2016".
Of course who knows what's in store. I didn't see this coming so I'm sure Rich has a pretty cool direction here, even if this is not as I'm framing it here and OOTS end up resuming the journey to the final gate after the Godsmoot does what it's going to do. I mean, we don't know what all the factions or voting blocks are.
...the other gods see what Hel is trying to do and will take their chances with the last gate and the Snarl, preferring oblivion to ceding ground to Hel (or setting up a migration that Hel can sabotage somehow). This entire plot line may also be the resolution of Durkula/Durkon's arc too, and by the time they leave things aren't too different goals-wise than when they were heading through here, just minus one vampire and possibly minus one ranger.
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 02:44 PM
Only way he'd show up is with permission from Xykon.
"Hey, Xykon. The Gods are trying to end the world, which means you can't rule it."
"Friggin Gods. You promise it's only a pit stop? I've got things to explode and people to kill."
You've convinced me. He's there. :smalltongue:
blunk
2015-08-10, 02:45 PM
Can I sig this?Yes, flattered :smallsmile:
kivzirrum
2015-08-10, 02:50 PM
Let me also say right now that I would respect the hell out of Rich if this is just about it. I.e. if as has been some speculation about already, this is engineered to bring the entire story to a close at #1000 after 3 double- or triple-sized updates.
Some sort of climactic battle at the final gate, after X and R might have had ample time to fortify it given that they went straight there almost a book's worth ago, is looking more and more like the easy way out and/or obvious conclusion. In keeping with telling a different story, and the larger themes Rich might want to touch on, perhaps a straightforward showdown at the final gate just feels too cliche.
A massive reset of the world, as metacommentary on long-running campaigns that sometimes need to begin anew, could be done very well. And all the various characters, plotlines, prophecies and possibilities we've seen for hundreds of strips and so many years, become part of what made the main story so engrossing. I.e. it's a living and breathing world with characters that have lives and motivations of their own, and aren't simply there to make Our Heroes(tm) look better. In that sense, there's nothing 'wrong', 'unfinished' or even unsatisfying about e.g. never coming back to V's Soul Splice or similar plot lines ever again.
What better way to demonstrate that it's not all about the OOTS, and never was, than by having larger events around them intervene?
And in a non-story sense...
...it gives Rich the flexibility to wrap up what he needs to from the Kickstarter, take the Dragon magazine strips where he wants them to go. And he can basically revisit OOTS at any time, since the planet-within-the-rift might be where the whole of creation migrates to, as has been speculated here. He can essentially do a gritty-reboot / sequel of his own story, on his own terms and timeline. Or perhaps it's not as final as that, and strip 1000 is where the gods rend the planet asunder in one spectacular splash panel... with the simple, modest end panel of "The Order of the Stick Will Return in 2016".
Of course who knows what's in store. I didn't see this coming so I'm sure Rich has a pretty cool direction here, even if this is not as I'm framing it here and OOTS end up resuming the journey to the final gate after the Godsmoot does what it's going to do. I mean, we don't know what all the factions or voting blocks are.
...the other gods see what Hel is trying to do and will take their chances with the last gate and the Snarl, preferring oblivion to ceding ground to Hel (or setting up a migration that Hel can sabotage somehow). This entire plot line may also be the resolution of Durkula/Durkon's arc too, and by the time they leave things aren't too different goals-wise than when they were heading through here, just minus one vampire and possibly minus one ranger.
Really? You think cheating the audience like that would be a good thing?
Well, to each their own. :smallconfused: Can't say I consider that even a small possibility, though, nor would I ever want it to be. I think I'd burn all my OotS books if that were the case, not to mention rescind everything I've ever said about Rich being a good writer.
Bulldog Psion
2015-08-10, 02:58 PM
It's just got to end up a tie vote, with Hel's vote being the tie-breaker. :smallsmile:
You know, it would be a sort of bitter irony if Durkon being turned into Lurky Corpsewhiskers was the one thing that ended up saving the world.
Of course, Hel might want to hit the reset button. :smalleek:
P.S. I'm not one who's big on questioning authorial decisions, usually. But if Mr. Burlew really did end the story at strip 1,000 with the erasure of the world and all the characters, I would probably literally burst in indignation.
HalfTangible
2015-08-10, 02:59 PM
Only way he'd show up is with permission from Xykon.
"Hey, Xykon. The Gods are trying to end the world, which means you can't rule it."
"Friggin Gods. You promise it's only a pit stop? I've got things to explode and people to kill."
Redcloak has expressed in the past that if the world is destroyed, the Dark One can make lives better for the goblin race the next time around. He's fine with it.
XicoFelipe
2015-08-10, 03:04 PM
I don't think the world will be destroyed. Remember Elan's profecy is that he will have a happy ending.
Porthos
2015-08-10, 03:06 PM
What better way to demonstrate that it's not all about the OOTS, and never was, than by having larger events around them intervene?
Considering this goes directly against his stated intents about the comic (there are a few other comments along these lines as well), I don't think this is very likely.
Nor should it be. :smallwink:
So the Snarl's secret is out.
Pyron
2015-08-10, 03:18 PM
I think the gods might be voting to destroy this world (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html).
mouser9169
2015-08-10, 03:23 PM
Consider this: Destroying the world would not be viewed by the clerics as a necessarily Bad Thing(tm).
They live in a world with a known certainty of an earned afterlife. Sure, if the gods destroy the world a lot of lives will be cut short, but everyone dies anyway, and this just speeds them on to their reward. Viewed through the lens of the "Needs of the many", destroying the world is certainly the 'Lawful' thing to do, and quite possible the 'Good' thing as well.
LordRahl6
2015-08-10, 03:26 PM
So the Snarl's secret is out.
I must say INDEED!:smalleek:
Unless they mean to destroy it for some other reason.:smalltongue:
Tobimaro
2015-08-10, 03:38 PM
And the Giant surprises us once again. :smalleek:
Shining Wrath
2015-08-10, 03:40 PM
I think the gods might be voting to destroy this world (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html).
A worthwhile suggestion, but that would mean that the HPoOdin spoke rather ... ambiguously.
hroşila
2015-08-10, 03:53 PM
I don't expect Redcloak or even a representative to be here, but on the other hand, I do expect the OotS to find out a bit more about the Plan, and more importantly about the plight of the Goblinoid races, before the story ends. Now might be a good time for that.
Jasdoif
2015-08-10, 03:54 PM
It's just got to end up a tie vote, with Hel's vote being the tie-breaker. :smallsmile:
You know, it would be a sort of bitter irony if Durkon being turned into Lurky Corpsewhiskers was the one thing that ended up saving the world.I don't think the Snarl goes back to sleep if the Godsmoot decides not to destroy the world.
Which is really the big question I have here. In order for there to be any productive point for the meeting, there need to be alternatives to "destroy the world" other than "do nothing and ignore the scenario that led us to consider destroying the world in the first place". Admittedly there could be a different sort of point to the gods ("We were going to destroy the world regardless, but we figured it wouldn't feel so awkward if you agreed to it")....
Peelee
2015-08-10, 04:02 PM
I don't think the Snarl goes back to sleep if the Godsmoot decides not to destroy the world.
Which is really the big question I have here. In order for there to be any productive point for the meeting, there need to be alternatives to "destroy the world" other than "do nothing and ignore the scenario that led us to consider destroying the world in the first place". Admittedly there could be a different sort of point to the gods ("We were going to destroy the world regardless, but we figured it wouldn't feel so awkward if you agreed to it")....
Indeed; the only point of having a vote in the first place is to decide whether or not an alternative plan has a good chance of success. If it doesn't, or if there is no alternative plan, then why have a vote at all? The reset button would need to be hit regardless. I like the poster who likened it to "deciding whether to try one last time to fix the virus instead of host chucking it out and getting a new computer." That is pretty much the best analogy we have. We just don't know what the proposed fix is yet.
Andrew Markham
2015-08-10, 04:04 PM
Two things- As to getting Belkar back on the scene, he still has his Ring of Jumping +20. I can easily see him clinging to the cliff, then leaping back up to the temple in time to intervene. I hope he does.
Other thing is- what does Durkon's intervention mean here in terms of Odin's prophecy about Durkon in Book 0? Just a thought for people :smallsmile:
hroşila
2015-08-10, 04:05 PM
It's entirely possible that the alternative is "Hope the last Gate doesn't get blown up like the others". Or, depending on how quickly the gods can react to destroy the world (and the dialogue here implies they can do it pretty much immediately), "Wait a little bit longer, at least until the situation at the last Gate gets a lot more dangerous".
Then again, for all we know, that's exactly what has already happened at the last Gate.
Mad Humanist
2015-08-10, 04:06 PM
The best thing about the expression on Roy's face is wondering how it will cope when he learns the secret of Durkon's posession.
Basement Cat
2015-08-10, 04:09 PM
For the record---I totally saw this coming. :smallcool:
>.>
<.<
>.>
*crickets chirping*
...ahem...
Wrecan said he's been to a few Godmoots before and given his expression in the last panel I doubt that the topic of destroying the world comes up regularly.
I suspect that Roy's going to be wearing that shocked expression again when "Durkon" throws in his two cents. :smallwink:
runeghost
2015-08-10, 04:23 PM
Did you find a body?
I'm sorry, so the last you saw him, he was "falling to his certain death" into a crevasse after being hurled out of a temple on top of a mountain.
Oh yes, he's dead.
We'll certainly never see Belkar again.
I'm not nearly so certain. Things I'd try or hope for if I were roleplaying Belkar:
-is V or blackwing flying around?
-are there any nearby birds Belkar can talk into arresting his fall? (Halfling, light weight).
-Did he ever get his ring of jumping back from Roy?
-Just what is the terminal velocity on a halfling anyway? And how does the Square-cube law relate to falling damage for someone who weighs only weighs around 30 lbs?
-For that matter, given that he does only weight 30lbs, can he use his cloak as a parachute?
Ralanr
2015-08-10, 04:26 PM
The very fact that they're even having this discussion with so many cracks in the prison is amazing. Either there are a lot of gods who like this world or a lot of gods who have some faith in the heroes stopping it.
Just one more break and it's game over for them. Snarl probably won't fall for the same trick twice and the gods won't get to reroll themselves.
Frankly I'm surprised that some god or gods haven't just played it safe and destroyed the world. Whatever punishment the rest of the gods could inflict could not possibly be worse than death for an immortal being.
Does anyone else think Redcloak or another representative of the Dark One should be present?
BannedInSchool
2015-08-10, 04:36 PM
/me waves back at Veldrina :smallbiggrin:
Spoomeister
2015-08-10, 04:37 PM
Really? You think cheating the audience like that would be a good thing?
Well, to each their own. :smallconfused: Can't say I consider that even a small possibility, though, nor would I ever want it to be. I think I'd burn all my OotS books if that were the case, not to mention rescind everything I've ever said about Rich being a good writer.
Oh very much to each their own, I can see how some readers would be livid and I respect that.
I personally don't think it'd be cheating the audience at all, any more or less than spending an entire super-sized book on Elan's Dad Issues and relatively speaking almost nothing on the Xykon / snarl / gate plotline is a cheat or diversion.
All depends on what story Rich wants to tell. He hasn't shied away from playing with or commenting on classic narrative structure before. (Again, he just spent an entire book on it...)
Ted The Bug
2015-08-10, 04:38 PM
Thought related to the final gate: I wonder what Xykon looks like in the new art style? I feel like the greater details might lead to a REALLY badass looking skull, complete with moving eyebrow bones to broadcast that extra bit of malice.
Spoomeister
2015-08-10, 04:46 PM
Considering this goes directly against his stated intents about the comic (there are a few other comments along these lines as well), I don't think this is very likely.
Nor should it be. :smallwink:
Ah, thanks! Didn't know about that. It's possible his approach or goals for the story have changed in the intervening couple of years, but for now, ok.
I return to #1000 possibly being a cliffhanger at the least, if not the end. It'd be a hell of a stopping point...
Ghost Nappa
2015-08-10, 04:46 PM
:smalleek:
:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:
What? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakingBadNewsGently)
Aisper
2015-08-10, 04:52 PM
I'm kind of curious about the reason for this decision and the Godsmoot surrounding it. The most likely reason seems to be that the Snarl is breaking free and they want to remake its prison before it does, but maybe it's something else: the secret world that we know little about, some kind of knowledge that the Snarl possesses, or even that Xykon and Redcloak are closer than ever (except for their first attempt in Dorukan's dungeon) to enacting their plan and this is the best way to stop the Dark One (since the Order and the Scribbers and everyone else have been failing).
In any event, I hope that in the next strip Windstriker bursts through the window and says "On behalf of all paladin mounts, I vote Neiiiighhh"
jafar
2015-08-10, 04:54 PM
I rarely reply to posts, but I have to say: awesome and queue the REM song.
The gods can always make new followers, but making a new god? That's difficult. Just ask Elan.
There is one escape hatch though. I remember seeing another world though that gate.
Actually, if the gods destroy the outer world, will the Snarl's inner world be all that is left? Will it take its place leaving the Snarl to rule over all, wiping out the gods 1 minute after they unmake creation?
Food for thought. Or not.
Doug Lampert
2015-08-10, 04:55 PM
I thought the Dark One was specifically shunned by all the other gods. Hence his plan to take a gate to blackmail the gods into providing for all goblinkind. So I don't think Redcloak would even know about this because the Dark One wouldn't be invited.
I'm not as good with the lore of OOTS as most everyone else here, so someone can probably find the strip(s) that can prove me wrong here.
He's not shunned by all of them, the Dark One got the snarl story from various of the other Evil gods, and there are Evil gods in the various pantheons.
I don't know whether it's a compliment to the Giant's writing or not that some people here seem to think the comic is actually going to end with the world being destroyed in three strips.
It's a compliment, he's managed to build suspense around a "problem" he's already specifically told us won't have that effect because he's managed to be unpredictable enough while still telling a good story that people think there's a real chance he's going to blow it all up in a puff of non-story.
Dramatic tension, where sanely you wouldn't think there'd be any, that takes mastery.
rewinn
2015-08-10, 05:00 PM
I don't think the world will be destroyed. Remember Elan's profecy is that he will have a happy ending.
Unless ...
... OOTS is sent, Earendil-like, to confer with the gods on the fate of the mortal realm - thus the party survives the remaking of the world and, in the process, persuade the gods that the new world needs MORE BANJOS! BANJOS FOR EVERYONE!!!
So now instead of earning XPs by slaying goblinoids, adventurers earn XPs by playing concerts.
:elan: Yay happy ending!
gerryq
2015-08-10, 05:07 PM
#1000 may end with a dramatic yes vote, for all I know - though I doubt it. But destruction of the world ain't going to happen.
Ralanr
2015-08-10, 05:18 PM
#1000 may end with a dramatic yes vote, for all I know - though I doubt it. But destruction of the world ain't going to happen.
#1000 will end with a cliff hanger that saves the results for #1001.
Come on people, what makes you all think the reveal will happen on an even number? Its never happened on those.
Snails
2015-08-10, 05:44 PM
Consider this: Destroying the world would not be viewed by the clerics as a necessarily Bad Thing(tm).
They live in a world with a known certainty of an earned afterlife. Sure, if the gods destroy the world a lot of lives will be cut short, but everyone dies anyway, and this just speeds them on to their reward. Viewed through the lens of the "Needs of the many", destroying the world is certainly the 'Lawful' thing to do, and quite possible the 'Good' thing as well.
Well, your point sort of makes sense, but your argument is weak.
Logically speaking, a Good god might be desperate enough to vote for the destruction of the world for the specific reason that the gods could arrange a controlled apocalypse that would allow all the souls to reach their correct destiny. If the Snarl is unleashed in a sudden cataclysm, many souls might be outright annihilated.
So, it is not at all "needs of the many" that allows this argument to make sense. Rather, it is that saving your souls from utter annihilation is so important that sacrificing your lives may be acceptable, under these extremely extreme circumstances.
Remember that if the Dark One or Xykon or Hel or <fill in the blank> grab hold of the Gate, it is not a sure thing than any soul in the entire multiverse is safe, even those sequestered away in the outer planes. Presumably, all three pantheons working together could prevent such a complete catastrophe, which is the reason for a godsmoot addressing this question.
Gift Jeraff
2015-08-10, 05:50 PM
Thought related to the final gate: I wonder what Xykon looks like in the new art style? I feel like the greater details might lead to a REALLY badass looking skull, complete with moving eyebrow bones to broadcast that extra bit of malice.
The 2015 calendar shows several characters in the new style, including Xykon.
Donald
2015-08-10, 05:52 PM
They can't destroy the world! That's where I keep all my stuff!
shylocxs
2015-08-10, 05:54 PM
#998. #999. #1000!
Only 3 more to go! (or is the 2, darn cardinal numbers)
I'm very excited!
Eireannx
2015-08-10, 05:56 PM
So...
comic 998 will present the arguments...
comic 999 will be the vote...
and comic 1000 can bring the story to an unexpected end. :smallamused:
I don't see the Giant being this cruel, but it would certainly be an interesting outcome. :smalltongue:
1000 will need to have the Belkar 'I survived' moment before the comic fades to black.
Ralanr
2015-08-10, 06:08 PM
1000 will need to have the Belkar 'I survived' moment before the comic fades to black.
Hell yes, the shoeless God of war shall live!
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