Spellfire?

[Kesnit]

I am aware of Spellfire, the Spellfire Wielder feat, and the Spellfire Channeler PrC. Is there somewhere else in 3.0/3.5 where Spellfire is discussed? I ask because I have a player doing something strange, and I want to make sure I know what I am talking about before I confront him.

The PC is a ninja. We had our first game session last weekend, and the player used the "spellfire" ability as a ranged touch attack to do damage. During the game, I didn't think anything of it, thinking he had taken the Spellfire Wielder feat. (I hadn't approved it, but I've played with this player before and he knows I'm flexible in what I allow.) During the game, he mentioned he could use spellfire a certain number of times per day. That sounded wrong, since I thought Spellfire could be used as many times as the PC wants, so long as they still have store spell energy. But I admitted to myself that it had been a while since I read about Spellfire, so thought I was remembering wrong. After the game, it hit me that I had no idea how he was refilling his Spellfire. (The only caster in the party wasn't fueling him.)

I just went and reread the sections on Spellfire in Magic of Faerun, and it turns out I was right on what I thought. But I admit to not knowing everything about 3.X, so want to make sure there isn't an update somewhere that I am unfamiliar with. It's also possible there is something that works like Spellfire that he is mistakenly calling "Spellfire." According to him, it's usable 4 (or 6) times a day, and he is rolling 5 (or 6, I didn't count) d6 when he uses it. The party is 4th level.

[RolkFlameraven]

I'm away from books right now, but the only other place that talks about spellfire is the 'Silver fire' of the chosen of Mystra and, I think, the Magister. This is sometimes referred too as 'lesser spellfire'.

This sounds more like one of the Ki blast powers from a dragon mag, though that seems like a lot of D6's for one of those, although he might have been using sudden strike on it to up the number of dice right?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This is why the DM should hang onto all the character sheets, so you can look at his and see what feats, etc. are written down. You also may need to occasionally audit their number of skill points spent, etc., and it keeps them from changing things on their sheet between sessions.

He may be adding 2d6 sudden strike to its damage, be sure he's only using that against flat-footed opponents.

It doesn't look like there's anything official on it apart from what's found in Magic of Faerun, so he's most likely either grossly misunderstood the rules, or he's calling something else by the wrong name, or he's cheating. In any case, you should ask him about it before the next game starts to clear this up.

[5ColouredWalker]

Yea, that sounds wrong.

I've recently been looking at it, Spellfire works based on having absorbed spells directed at you. See Magic of Faerûn, p. 23 for the Spellfire Wielder feat, Spellfire in General should be near there.

[True believer]

well this sounds like hellfire , it can be gained by the hellfire warlock prestige class.

[Kesnit]

I'm away from books right now, but the only other place that talks about spellfire is the 'Silver fire' of the chosen of Mystra and, I think, the Magister. This is sometimes referred too as 'lesser spellfire'.

I looked it up, but it is nothing like what he is doing. Most of the effects of Silver Fire are passive, and the one attack power is 4d12 (DC 23 REF for half), which is not what he is rolling. Also, being a Chosen of Mystra seems to be a plot device, and not something a player could choose as a feat.


This sounds more like one of the Ki blast powers from a dragon mag, though that seems like a lot of D6's for one of those, although he might have been using sudden strike on it to up the number of dice right?

The feat requires BAB +8. The PC in question is a LVL 3 Ninja with a LA+1 race. And he is using it against enemies that are not flat-footed.


This is why the DM should hang onto all the character sheets, so you can look at his and see what feats, etc. are written down.

Hindsight is 20/20.


It doesn't look like there's anything official on it apart from what's found in Magic of Faerun, so he's most likely either grossly misunderstood the rules, or he's calling something else by the wrong name, or he's cheating. In any case, you should ask him about it before the next game starts to clear this up.

I suspect "grossly misunderstood the rules." He's a long-time player (though not all that time with me), but I have caught him in mistakes of the rules a few times.


well this sounds like hellfire , it can be gained by the hellfire warlock prestige class.

He's a Ninja 3 with no Warlock levels. And he specifically says his use of the ability is limited, which a hellfire blast is not.

[True believer]

He's a Ninja 3 with no Warlock levels. And he specifically says his use of the ability is limited, which a hellfire blast is not.

by the class it is actually limited without ignoring the fact that you can work around it. i pointed out in case there are other ways to gain hellfire since it is pretty close to what you describe.


There is also the Magic devotion feat that grunts a similar effect with no requirements but i don't remember his mechanics

[Kesnit]

i pointed out in case there are other ways to gain hellfire since it is pretty close to what you describe.

I didn't find a way to get access to it without the Hellfire Warlock class. But, again, I am far from an expert, so there may be a way I haven't found. Does anyone know of a way?


There is also the Magic devotion feat that grunts a similar effect with no requirements but i don't remember his mechanics

It does 1d6/2 character levels and is useable 1/day. (More if the PC powers it with Turn Undead, but that is a moot point here). Even if he was adding Sudden Strike, he is rolling too many dice. (Nice find, though.)

[Urpriest]

What did he say he was using when you asked? Which book did he reference?

[Kesnit]

What did he say he was using when you asked? Which book did he reference?

I haven't had the chance to ask him. Game was Saturday, and I didn't think of the issues until after game. We won't play again until a week from Saturday. (Normally we play every week, but I'll be out of town this weekend.) I can text him (or rather, have my wife text him since she has his number and I don't), but won't be able to do that until this evening.

[Sagetim]

I am aware of Spellfire, the Spellfire Wielder feat, and the Spellfire Channeler PrC. Is there somewhere else in 3.0/3.5 where Spellfire is discussed? I ask because I have a player doing something strange, and I want to make sure I know what I am talking about before I confront him.

The PC is a ninja. We had our first game session last weekend, and the player used the "spellfire" ability as a ranged touch attack to do damage. During the game, I didn't think anything of it, thinking he had taken the Spellfire Wielder feat. (I hadn't approved it, but I've played with this player before and he knows I'm flexible in what I allow.) During the game, he mentioned he could use spellfire a certain number of times per day. That sounded wrong, since I thought Spellfire could be used as many times as the PC wants, so long as they still have store spell energy. But I admitted to myself that it had been a while since I read about Spellfire, so thought I was remembering wrong. After the game, it hit me that I had no idea how he was refilling his Spellfire. (The only caster in the party wasn't fueling him.)

I just went and reread the sections on Spellfire in Magic of Faerun, and it turns out I was right on what I thought. But I admit to not knowing everything about 3.X, so want to make sure there isn't an update somewhere that I am unfamiliar with. It's also possible there is something that works like Spellfire that he is mistakenly calling "Spellfire." According to him, it's usable 4 (or 6) times a day, and he is rolling 5 (or 6, I didn't count) d6 when he uses it. The party is 4th level.


You're right, that's just not how spellfire works. There's also the epic level prestige class Spellfire Heirophant, which I felt is worth mentioning since it is a thing that exists with regards to spellfire, but it has no real bearing on this situation.

Spellfire Wielder (which I picked up on my truenamer as one of his first level feats with GM permission) is capable of being very potent. Because we're playing a little hard and fast with the rules, I've gotten away with having my character absorb entire fireballs that were being lobbed at his area. However, I'm fairly sure the actual interpretation is that you can only absorb things as a rod of absorption (which, as I recall, requires something that targets you specifically, rather than area of effects). You are also limited to your con score in stored spell energy (excess is, as I recall, expended randomly as explosions nearby). And when you attack with spellfire, you determine how many levels of spell energy you're expending to do that number of d6's of half fire damage half raw magical damage with a reflex save based on....something.

But you've mentioned that you have already looked the rules up. Other than the epic level prestige class you didn't mention, I think you've got all the sources for spellfire wielding. Even if you look up spellfire articles in ye olde wizards archive, you're not going to find anything that gives someone limited use per day blasts of spellfire.

In any case, you do need to talk with that player. If they're using something else and mistaking it for Spellfire, that would make sense. If they're using Spellfire, they need to follow the rules as enforced (which is the rules you use for spellfire. In this case, it looks like the rules as written are the ones you would use, so...yeah.) In either case, it's only been one session, so if a character needs a rebuild or reworking, now would probably be the best time to do so.

On a whim, I decided to look up Spellfire on the DND wiki to see if your player might have looked there and found misinformation. I found...incorrect information, as I was expecting. However, I didn't find the right kind of wrong information, because the spellfire wielder feat in there doesn't work on a per day basis.

[True believer]

plz inform us about the specifics when you talk to your player ,i am really curious :P :D

[Kesnit]

plz inform us about the specifics when you talk to your player ,i am really curious :P :D

Finally got to talk to the player about this.

He was trying to use Spellfire from Magic of Faerun. (Except I'm not sure he had the feat since the discussion went in a different direction.) When I asked him how he was powering it, he said he was using his ki. I told him it doesn't work that way and he has to be powered by spells or a spell-like ability. He told me he'd played with a previous DM who had allowed Spellfire to work that way.* I said that was nice, but I wasn't going to do that. He also tried to argue that since the Spellfire Wielder feat says the PC "can" ready an action to absorb magic, it doesn't mean the PC "has to" ready the action to absorb magic. I told him no, that only means the PC can do something other than ready an action to absorb on his turn (i.e. attack, cast a spell, etc.), but if he doesn't ready the action, he doesn't absorb any spells. The player then goes digging through his books and papers to find another feat that would allow him to blast, that he "knows he has seen and works, but can't find right now." (If I had to guess, I would assume the Ki Blast feat from PHB II, which requires Fiery Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, DEX 13, WIS 13, and BAB +8. He has the DEX and WIS, but none of the other requirements.)

In the end, I told him he could not use the "Spellfire" ability until he showed me the feat/ability/whatever that he was using. He grumbled that I was "nerfing" his character and play began.


* I suspect he did not know any better, to be honest. As I said before, he's played a lot, but is not really as up on the rules as I would expect. I'm guessing the previous DM said this is how Spellfire works, and he just took the DM at his word.

[Sagetim]

Thanks for the update....and yeah, he was probably told 'this is how x works' and just ran with it. I've encountered a number of players recently who say they have been playing for years but don't seem to be well read on how the rules are written. I blame the prevalence of house ruling for this. Not that house rules are a bad thing...but if you don't start from a basis of the rules as written, you can wind up confused when operating in a new group.

[Melcar]

Finally got to talk to the player about this.

He was trying to use Spellfire from Magic of Faerun. (Except I'm not sure he had the feat since the discussion went in a different direction.) When I asked him how he was powering it, he said he was using his ki. I told him it doesn't work that way and he has to be powered by spells or a spell-like ability. He told me he'd played with a previous DM who had allowed Spellfire to work that way.* I said that was nice, but I wasn't going to do that. He also tried to argue that since the Spellfire Wielder feat says the PC "can" ready an action to absorb magic, it doesn't mean the PC "has to" ready the action to absorb magic. I told him no, that only means the PC can do something other than ready an action to absorb on his turn (i.e. attack, cast a spell, etc.), but if he doesn't ready the action, he doesn't absorb any spells. The player then goes digging through his books and papers to find another feat that would allow him to blast, that he "knows he has seen and works, but can't find right now." (If I had to guess, I would assume the Ki Blast feat from PHB II, which requires Fiery Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, DEX 13, WIS 13, and BAB +8. He has the DEX and WIS, but none of the other requirements.)

In the end, I told him he could not use the "Spellfire" ability until he showed me the feat/ability/whatever that he was using. He grumbled that I was "nerfing" his character and play began.


* I suspect he did not know any better, to be honest. As I said before, he's played a lot, but is not really as up on the rules as I would expect. I'm guessing the previous DM said this is how Spellfire works, and he just took the DM at his word.

I want to point out, that since the absorption functions identically to a rod of absorption, which in 3.5 does not need a readied action, some interpret that as meaning that spellfire does not either, thus making the absorption automatic unless actively suppressed for healing or other beneficial purposes.

This has been quite debated and since the spellfire wielder feat explicitly says that a readied action is needed, one can assume just that, but its because the function of a rod of absorption changed from 3.0 to 3.5 edition.

One could perhaps let the character train hard, spending a homebrew feat to (Improved Spellfire Wielder) to get it to function without the readied action???

My personal experience, (I have it on my level 31 Wizard) is that its really underpowered. I have used it only about a dozen times in 10 real world years and mostly for roleplaying situations. But then again, I was not allowed to fuel myself, and I was the only caster in the party.
It is cool though when you can absorb magic traps or a spell engine or something like that, but combat wise I find it below par!