Iron and Steel in D&D

[Jergmo]

Hello, Playgrounders. From what I have been led to understand, most of the weapons and armor listed in Core are made with steel; like steel spear tips, steel swords, steel plate mail, etc.

What I'm wondering is, if they were made from iron instead of steel, what do you figure the price difference would be? :smallconfused:

[Abithrios]

From what I understand, there is not really a difference as far as the game is concerned. The developers didn't want to get into the details of medieval to late renaissance metallurgy, and are probably not experts in the subject.

If you want to make a distinction, one way to do it is to declare that normal weapons and armor are lower quality iron, while masterwork versions are of better steel.

I think it is in the rules that masterwork equipment is made from better materials, so it is not much of a stretch.

[rockdeworld]

Twice as much as their normal counterparts. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#ironCold) Although steel is also cold iron, so it should be the same.

[Ashtagon]

First up, this is essentially a question about technology levels in D&D (or progress levels as the d20 Modern SRD calls them). D&D's "cold iron" is entirely irrelevant to the question.

The earliest examples of steel data back to 1800 BC. This is more or less simultaneous (give or take 200 years) with the first iron weapons. Beads and other rough jewellery made from meteoric iron have been discovered dating back a further 2000 years, although these were hammered into shape rather than forged. There's a very narrow historical band in which you woudl see iron weapons but not steel ones.

That said, D&D actually does have rules for iron weapons. Dragon Magazine #319 had rules for it in a Dark Sun setting article. According to that article, iron weapons function identically to steel weapons in every respect.

GURPS (3e) says iron weapons use bronze weapon prices and stats, except for being considered superior to bronze for weapon breakage rules (something that tends not to happen in D&D). If GURPS (4e) says anything about iron weapons, I can't find it.

[Sian]

Twice as much as their normal counterparts. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#ironCold) Although steel is also cold iron, so it should be the same.

Question was on Iron, not Cold Iron which is very different.

From what i know about ancient weaponry, there is no major difference between iron weapons and Bronze weapons, unless you temper the iron into primitive steel-like alloy (Damascus steel is merely the most recognized) which renders the argument moot. The primary reason (although prehaps not the only reason) why humanity changed from bronze to iron, was that bronzeworking needed much more expensive materials (copper and tin was only very rarely able to be found within several hundreds of miles from each other), and that Iron while prehaps slightly more difficult to process was near-infinitely easier to access and gain in bulk.

If I were to make a call i would look at the rules for bronze weaponry and go from there, aiming at a point between that and standard steel

[ekarney]

If you want a simple, not 100% historically accurate distinction.

I'd go with, assume the weapons and armour are currently steel.

Low quality iron armour would be heavier, cheaper and impose a higher skill check penalty. Maybe a -1 to Max dex.
Low quality iron weapons would also be heavier and cheaper, however iron weapons would be easier to sunder and not be able to be used to sunder, anything better than iron.


You could do all sorts of +1s and -1s here and there but I'm assuming you'd want to keep it simple. That's probably the simplest it could be without getting too weird.

[marphod]

Not iron, but as for bronze:

DMG 144
Bronze weapons have -1 attack and Damage penalties (Minimum 1), shields are the same, and breastplate has -1 AC but +1 max Dex. (So would, presumably, other plate armors, but not listed). Bronze also has slightly lower hardness/HP.

I'd probably lower the Hardness/HP for Iron a little, but short term, the damage and armor differences don't make much sense -- iron will break down faster, but I don't believe it should do less damage. (In fact, as I understand it, over time, blunt weapons may cold-forge themselves into having a steel striking surface.) I'm also unaware of significant differences in middle-age era steal and iron in shock-response. If you want to represent that iron is weaker, maybe increase the weight by 10%?

[rockdeworld]

Question was on Iron, not Cold Iron which is very different.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/cardfight/images/1/16/OBJECTION_by_Phoenix_is_Wright.png/revision/latest?cb=20150107170635

Cold iron is a poetic and archaic term for iron.

Other sources talk about "cold iron" meaning any weapon, and fey having an aversion to steel just like they do to iron, hence the rest of my post.

But anyway, except where the rules talk about the specific material in the weapon/armor (leather, wooden shield, etc), you can fluff it to be whatever you like.

[AmberVael]

Other sources talk about "cold iron" meaning any weapon, and fey having an aversion to steel just like they do to iron, hence the rest of my post.

Yeah, but the special material cold iron talks about something very specific and difficult to use.



This iron, mined deep underground, known for its effectiveness against fey creatures, is forged at a lower temperature to preserve its delicate properties. Weapons made of cold iron cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts.
Mined in a special place, forged in a different manner, extra expensive. Not normal iron.

[Sagetim]

Hello, Playgrounders. From what I have been led to understand, most of the weapons and armor listed in Core are made with steel; like steel spear tips, steel swords, steel plate mail, etc.

What I'm wondering is, if they were made from iron instead of steel, what do you figure the price difference would be? :smallconfused:

price specifically: Cheap and terrible. This is where you can get some 5 copper swords to arm your hirelings with.

I would have it work something like:

Cheapest- lowest quality, rusted, iron longsword runs a few copper if the person buying it bothers to assess the quality. It would have 6 hardness, snap in two on a nat 1 (and become a short sword), and have a -1 to hit and damage just for being a piece of crap. It would also weigh 6 lb instead of 4.

Cheap- fair quality, iron - it would run a silver or two, have normal hardness for iron (8?), and would still suffer a -1 to hit and weigh 6 pounds. It would be prone to rusting (if not properly protected from moisture, it would degrade into the sword listed above).

average- fair quality, steel- your normal player's handbook longsword. While it's the standard by which adventurers operate, it doesn't have to be the standard by which most people or armies operate.

expensive- masterwork steel and up. While I suppose it would be possible to make a masterwork iron longsword, I don't imagine many smiths would bother.

Cold Iron, in this case, would count as a separate material with unique properties. Though, in games I've played with my group we have house ruled that cast iron/pig iron items like skillets are made of cold iron. This generally only came up in d20 modern games. And if you're wondering, yes, some things Did die to the skillet.

[johnbragg]

Cold Iron, in this case, would count as a separate material with unique properties. Though, in games I've played with my group we have house ruled that cast iron/pig iron items like skillets are made of cold iron. This generally only came up in d20 modern games. And if you're wondering, yes, some things Did die to the skillet.

Terry Pratchett's young Tiffany Aching gets some pretty impressive results out of a cast iron frying pan vs fey.

[Yogibear41]

IMO Iron weapons should have the same stats as Steel weapons, except it should be easier to break and maybe have a small weight difference, but I am far from an expert.

On the discussion of Iron vs Cold Iron and such. In lots of fantasies supernatural creatures (fey, ghosts, etc.) have an aversion to Iron. In the DMG it says that cold iron is "mined deep underground". After a very quick read over of "Iron" on wikipedia, it talks about the different types of mined Iron and the %s of other metals that they are made up of. Perhaps DnD's Cold Iron which is mined deep underground is of a higher % of Iron, or it has a large amount of another particular metal or a specific percentage of multiple metals that in fact give it its special properties. The low-temperature forging of "cold iron" is likely to prevent this specific arrangement from breaking down. So basically Cold Iron is normal Iron, with just a slight bit of difference. :smallsmile:

[Ashtagon]

IMO Iron weapons should have the same stats as Steel weapons, except it should be easier to break and maybe have a small weight difference, but I am far from an expert.

On the discussion of Iron vs Cold Iron and such. In lots of fantasies supernatural creatures (fey, ghosts, etc.) have an aversion to Iron. In the DMG it says that cold iron is "mined deep underground". After a very quick read over of "Iron" on wikipedia, it talks about the different types of mined Iron and the %s of other metals that they are made up of. Perhaps DnD's Cold Iron which is mined deep underground is of a higher % of Iron, or it has a large amount of another particular metal or a specific percentage of multiple metals that in fact give it its special properties. The low-temperature forging of "cold iron" is likely to prevent this specific arrangement from breaking down. So basically Cold Iron is normal Iron, with just a slight bit of difference. :smallsmile:

Many catgirls died in the making of this post :smalleek: