Black Dracolich Sorcerer Final Boss + DM tips

[Archaos]

Hello everyone. I need some help calculating a Black Dracolich Sorcerer's stats as the final boss.

This will be my first time DMing with Pathfinder rules, custom setting and any general (about DMing etc) or specific tips about the questions below would be most welcome.

The campaign would be short, only 1 week at best but each day would be a session and an automatic level up.
So if they start at level 8, they will end at level 15 with an appropriate final boss challenge.

I have already laid out the backstory and story and fleshening out stuff here and there.
It's going to be story-heavy (so no sandbox craziness or experimental stuff/parties), which means that it's going to be railroaded to a point.

The party would be a Human Paladin (noble born). Simple stuff but I will be enforcing a proper Paladin or he would become Fallen. (I'm going to give him warnings and remind him of his alignment and Code of Conduct).

A Human Summoner with the Celestial Commander archetype, brother of the Paladin and his Eidolon would be his deceased Paladin mother that he can summon as a Celestial (angelic) Outsider with some rebalanced mental stats.
His Domain would be the Healing Domain with the Resurrection sub-domain, so he can function as a backup healer.

A Rogue and Ranger that might or might not join us, total newbies to DnD in general from what I understood.

No optimization or min/maxing tips please. I'll already be generous with the auto-level up thing, loot, gold (but no overkill) and stat rolls. :smalltongue:
Even planned a Deus Ex Machina if things turned really bad.

Though general tips are welcome.
Basically it's going to be a fun mini-campaign to pass the time while we're on vacation.

It's also going to include lots of undead and demons but also evil mages, priests, assassins, fighters etc.
Various other monsters as well but don't want to go too wild or exotic with them.
It might or might not take place largely in a big city, with sewers and sublevels to it.

I want the final boss to be a Black Dracolich Sorcerer (unsure about bloodline, thematic suggestions are welcome) that basically runs the whole show behind the scenes like a puppet master (hence the big Charisma score, influential, deceiving etc).
Imagine a very "nerfed" Daurgothoth from FR.

Questions:

1) What time of age/type should the Dracolich have for a ~15 level party of 4? Might also throw some summoned demons in there.

2) Would the Sorcerer levels on top of an undead Dragon be too much? If not, how high could I go? (Not a "Batman" Sorcerer, if that's even possible, but more of an acid/evil/necromancy/demon-summoner spell type of Sorcerer)

3) I cannot for the life of me understand how a monster with class levels work. Sub-questions:
Its BAB, skills etc are those of a Sorcerer right? With the exception of the HDs which are d8 + CHA mod (undead)?
Does it get the extra spells of a Black Dragon of it's type on top of Sorcerer spells?
Does it advance its Acid Breath and DC as well as other abilities of a Black Dragon?
What about its stats? I take the ones from an Adult Black Dragon, for example, then add these: "+4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 ", as I wish and then the Lich template on top?
Would its CR perhaps get too high?

Thank you for your patience of reading through all that (if you did) and would appreciate any tips. :smallsmile:

[(Un)Inspired]

Wouldn't the answers to your questions be optimization tips?

Aren't you trying to optimize you BBEG for a specific purpose (to challenge but not overwhelm your party I assume)?

If the advice you're seeking isn't optimization tips then what are you looking for? Actively detrimental information? Random garbled data?

[Geddy2112]

First off, a paladin in a campaign with a lot of evil and undead is going to really shine-and if they can swing at the BBEG, they can easily kill them. It is how the Paladin do. Just make sure the rest of the party feels useful when the pally is one man army against the horde of evil.

Second, Celestial Commanders don't get eidolons. That is good, because if they had one they would be even more broken than they already are. Minomancy is going to really favor the PC's in almost every combat. If you only have 2 players, then the party might need it. As is, your rogue and ranger are going to be second fiddle. They can handle skills, and the ranger will have favored enemies against the usual evil suspects, but be wary of the power of Minomancy.

As for your BBEG, the Abyssal bloodline is exactly what you want. Your dracolich will get fire damage on their claws, resistance to electricity and poison, extra strength, and a lot of boosts to their summons.At level 15 summons will come with one extra, and have DR7/good. You will get good use out of power attack and augment summoning, and the spell list is mostly buffs. Start the fight with the dracolich already buffed up with things like bulls strength and stoneskin. Throw some summons out to draw out the party resources, while using dismissal to stop minomancy.When the lich runs low on good spells then hulk out with rage/transformation and go pound the face of the enemies with your claws/neg energy. It will make for a seriously epic fight.

The whole encounter should be around a CR17-18. A CR15 encounter to a CR 15 party will only drain 25% of their daily resources. You have to push 2-3 levels higher, factoring in party gear, optimization, terrain whathaveyou. Shoot for a CR18 encounter, you can always summon more or less monsters on the fly. I would just go with an Ancient black dragon, apply the sorcerer bloodline and spell levels of a Level 15 sorcerer, then slap on the lich template and call it a day.

Normally, monsters take class levels and add to their CR/hit dice. You would add BAB, saves etc to the already established monster. In which case, just use the black dragon basics and advance them to the correct age. Claws, breath, SLA's etc. On the sorcerer chassis. Then throw the lich on top. Having a CR16 dragon with 15 levels in sorcerer is going to be a god and murder the party. A level 15 sorcerer with a black dragon lich body(adjusting powers for level and age) is more appropriate.

[Arutema]

For simplicity in monster-building, what I would do is;

Start with an Ancient Black Dragon. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/chromatic-black/ancient-black-dragon)
Adjust his sorcerer spells known to be more focused on necromancy and summoning.
Add the Ravener (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/ravener-CR-2) template, Pathfinder's version of the dracolich.
This comes out to a CR 18 encounter, which is a boss-level encounter for a level 15 party of 4.

If you end up with only a party of only 2, you might want to give free cohorts to the PCs to fill out any missing niches.

[Archaos]

Wouldn't the answers to your questions be optimization tips?

Aren't you trying to optimize you BBEG for a specific purpose (to challenge but not overwhelm your party I assume)?

What I meant is not optimization about the party (super feats, archetypes, PrCs, spells, items etc).
They will already be quite strong with the out-of-the-box stuff and items I will throw at them.

And yes to the latter. I want a challenging BBEG that they won't steamroll and won't be destroyed in the first round.
They might fight the Dracolich one time and then he might come back one final time with some help.


First off, a paladin in a campaign with a lot of evil and undead is going to really shine-and if they can swing at the BBEG, they can easily kill them. It is how the Paladin do. Just make sure the rest of the party feels useful when the pally is one man army against the horde of evil.

Yes, it's why I'm going to include evil and undead but I plan on giving the others holy/disruption/undead-bane weapons or scrolls to survive. Though I'll need to be careful and not overdo it.



Second, Celestial Commanders don't get eidolons. That is good, because if they had one they would be even more broken than they already are.

Ah crap, I knew the CC was too good to be true and apparently I noticed all the good stuff but was too tired to notice the "don't get Eidolons" part.

Would you recommend going with the Unchained Summoner instead and get the Angel subtype Eidolon?
If I'm not mistaken, the Unchained classes are generally improved to their original ones.



The whole encounter should be around a CR17-18. I would just go with an Ancient black dragon, apply the sorcerer bloodline and spell levels of a Level 15 sorcerer, then slap on the lich template and call it a day.

A level 15 sorcerer with a black dragon lich body(adjusting powers for level and age) is more appropriate.

Could I alternatively get an Ancient Black Dragon (CR 16) or Wyrm (CR 17) and slap the Lich template on it (CR +2) for a CR 18/19 and call it a day instead?
It's innate spellcasting counts for all intents and purposes for the Lich template, right?

Would this be a quicker and dirtier solution while keeping the challenge up?


For simplicity in monster-building, what I would do is;

Start with an Ancient Black Dragon. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/chromatic-black/ancient-black-dragon)
Adjust his sorcerer spells known to be more focused on necromancy and summoning.
Add the Ravener (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/ravener-CR-2) template, Pathfinder's version of the dracolich.
This comes out to a CR 18 encounter, which is a boss-level encounter for a level 15 party of 4.

If you end up with only a party of only 2, you might want to give free cohorts to the PCs to fill out any missing niches.

As above. While the Ravener looks great, I like the Phylactery part of the Lich. I have already planned on what it's phylactery would be and where it would be, protected from Detect Evil/divination etc at first.

Would a Wyrm Black Dracolich (CR 19 total) with no class levels but adjusted spells, be enough? Overkill?
Reminder: the Paladin, the Angelic Eidolon (biped humanoid with a Greatsword) and the Ranger/Rogue would have anti-evil/undead stuff to counter it to a point.

Also if we're short on players, I planned that the Paladin would get a Cleric cohort that he or I (DM PC) would control to balance things out.

The Deus Ex Machina I planned, if all goes wrong and ends in a TPK would be that the angelic Eidolon draws all its celestial energy and transforms into her true form, which is Planetar but cannot be resummoned for some weeks/month/years (if the campaign ends with the BBEG destroyed).

I also drew some inspiration from OotS, since the High Priest (Lawful Evil high level Cleric) would be serving the undead dracolich (Chaotic Evil Ancient/Wyrm).

[Geddy2112]

Ah crap, I knew the CC was too good to be true and apparently I noticed all the good stuff but was too tired to notice the "don't get Eidolons" part.

Would you recommend going with the Unchained Summoner instead and get the Angel subtype Eidolon?
If I'm not mistaken, the Unchained classes are generally improved to their original ones.
The Unchained Summoner is actually a bit less powerful than the base summoner, which was pretty powerful. It does balance out the class and having the angel subtype eidolon would fit fantastic for the concept your Summoner is looking for.



Could I alternatively get an Ancient Black Dragon (CR 16) or Wyrm (CR 17) and slap the Lich template on it (CR +2) for a CR 18/19 and call it a day instead?
It's innate spellcasting counts for all intents and purposes for the Lich template, right?

Would this be a quicker and dirtier solution while keeping the challenge up?

Would a Wyrm Black Dracolich (CR 19 total) with no class levels but adjusted spells, be enough? Overkill?
Reminder: the Paladin, the Angelic Eidolon (biped humanoid with a Greatsword) and the Ranger/Rogue would have anti-evil/undead stuff to counter it to a point.


That would also work;a CR 19 would be tough but not unbeatable, although it would be better to have the CR be slightly lower and add in more baddies. If you have summoned demons or whatever the encounter is going to be too brutal. If the party has anti undead/evil stuff and is tailored for the fight, a single BBEG should be pretty easy.

[Archaos]

The Unchained Summoner is actually a bit less powerful than the base summoner, which was pretty powerful. It does balance out the class and having the angel subtype eidolon would fit fantastic for the concept your Summoner is looking for.

The Unchained Summoner is a bit less powerful because it forces Eidolon types instead of allowing complete freedom in what you can make, right?



That would also work;a CR 19 would be tough but not unbeatable, although it would be better to have the CR be slightly lower and add in more baddies. If you have summoned demons or whatever the encounter is going to be too brutal. If the party has anti undead/evil stuff and is tailored for the fight, a single BBEG should be pretty easy.

So with anti-undead/evil stuff (Paladin's Bonded Weapon, Eidolon's Holy Greatsword +x, undead-bane holy arrows/bolts etc), the Wyrm Black Dracolich and a couple summoned demons (thinking Mariliths or other undead servants) would be a good challenge?

Basically what I want to do:

1) Going through it's lair and its guardians and fighting it alone at the end, with its horde (which are more anti-undead weapons it kept/stole to protect itself from adventurers that could beat it).

2) Then, the party would think its over and get the anti-evil/anti-undead loot from its horde. Using its Phylactery, it would come back and prepare with some more company (demons/undead minions) for the final battle, finally destroying it and its phylactery once and for all.

[Geddy2112]

Yes, the unchained summoner also has a more balanced spell list.

Sounds like a pretty solid challenge. Since you are going to be throwing a lot of anti evil/anti undead stuff at the party, you can really juice the CR of the overall encounter. Also, try to drop not so subtle hints for your ranger to pick up favored enemies like undead, evil outsiders, dragons etc.

[Nibbens]

Action economy, action economy, action economy. And read this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nx-o8VAjhUwh3nnfzDQT-JA5eFLnN_BZJiBitGjBMDg/edit?pli=1). If you've never read it before it will change the way you see boss battles in D&D.

That is all. :)

[Archaos]

Something else, since I'm a "noob" to DMing and there are various formulas here and there with all matters of math/calculations/theories/arguments with CR etc, I need a quick and dirty noob-friendly way to design encounters/battles.
Like a cheat-sheet.

For example:
I have a group of four level 8 PCs (Paladin, Summoner + humanoid Eidolon, Rogue and Ranger).
They get into a fight of average difficulty with guards (Fighters or NPC Warriors?).
What level should the guards be? Like, four level 6 guards? More? Less?

Then that level 8 party encounters a vanilla Vampire Sorcerer (CR 9). Should I instead throw two of them to make them challenging (CR +2 = total CR 11)? Or three? (CR 12)

Basically, CR stands for average difficulty for a four-people party of equal level? Or I missed the mark completely?


And read this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nx-o8VAjhUwh3nnfzDQT-JA5eFLnN_BZJiBitGjBMDg/edit?pli=1). If you've never read it before it will change the way you see boss battles in D&D.

In short, this?: "This means that if a character has all PC class levels and is equipped appropriately for a PC of its level, its CR equals its class level."

(Yes, first-time DM that needs to learn EVERYTHING quickly about DMing and challenges :smalltongue:)