Need help with scroll and potion costs!

[Kalegkos]

Hello there fellow giants! How are ya? I come here to seek aid once again, like a baby cub goes to it's mother when is scared or need something. Anyhow :smalltongue:

I am playing a Kender Sorcereress, this has nothing to do with our problem though, in a 5e campaign and i was looking to get some scrolls from a place.

There was a problem. Me and my DM couldn't find anywhere in the books the exact cost of the scrolls (per spell level). Huge problem. I need 'em, i crave them! Also i am not sure the potion list was clear enough about that.

Anyone care to help the shorty get it's scrolls so i can *BOOM* *SPLASH* *POW* my enemies, or friends...?

Thanx a lot in advance lads, or lasses!

[dropbear8mybaby]

You can't buy magical items in 5e.

If you want to, you'll have to make a price list up for your own game.

[Kalegkos]

@dropbear8mybaby Really now? You can't buy scrolls?

[Kryx]

By RAW you cannot buy magic items besides the ones in the PHB.

That said some of us have created costs for them. Here is my version (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YHRf4dvJ369qWN5iVm-vMTzt985Sd6Shx1QespxRrIs/edit#gid=0) based on PF's valuation and revaluing to 5e.

Saidoro also has Sane Magic Item Prices (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424243-Sane-Magic-Item-Prices). Though I disagree with a fair amount of his pricing. His potions of a 3rd level spell (water breathing) cost 180g while a scroll of the same spell is 200g. If anything scrolls should cost cheaper.

[Kalegkos]

@Kryx Your answer has been more than satisfying. I've kept both of the links and i will share them with the world! Our world needs to know that there are still good people who create for the others... Thank you :smallbiggrin:

I really can't get the whole point of not be able to find magical items, scrolls etc. What if you play a high magical campaign or something? What if you are in a main city, a Metropolis or in another plane...

[dropbear8mybaby]

@Kryx Your answer has been more than satisfying. I've kept both of the links and i will share them with the world! Our world needs to know that there are still good people who create for the others... Thank you :smallbiggrin:

I really can't get the whole point of not be able to find magical items, scrolls etc. What if you play a high magical campaign or something? What if you are in a main city, a Metropolis or in another plane...

Finding them is different to buying them. You can create them. They are in treasure tables. And if you want to create prices to buy them, then that's your prerogative. It's simply that the default for the system is that you can't buy them as buying them upsets the balance of the system and in so doing, needs to be compensated for which requires more work for the DM, and more book space which the designers didn't have.

Maybe one day there will be official rules for it but as of now, the default is not being able to so that material is not in any source book.

[SharkForce]

lots of people didn't like how 3.x and 4e were basically built around the assumption that you were going to get certain magic items that were built into the math of the system.

as a result, we now have an edition where supposedly magic items are so precious that nobody would ever even dream of selling them. except that there are rules for selling magic items right in the core books. and rules about how much it costs to buy magic items, too (note: the rules in the book on magic item costs are absolute trash, and i would highly recommend sticking with the two links you got instead. they only have costs per category of rarity, with no cost associated with the usefulness of the item; sovereign clue costs dramatically more than a broom of flying, for example).

in any event, basically because people didn't like the feature everyone is busy pretending that magic shops are not supposed to have been a thing ever in spite of the fact that every single edition of D&D i've ever seen has published setting material and/or adventures that explicitly have magic shops, often making them not even particularly uncommon.

[Elbeyon]

the rules in the book on magic item costs are absolute trashBehold the majesty of 5e's magic item costs!

Scrolls
Cantrip & 1st: 50-100 gp
2nd & 3rd: 101-500 gp
4th & 5th: 501-5,000 gp
6th, 7th, 8th: 5,001-50,000 gp
9th: 50,001+

You can fly 4 hours a day, no activation time, & in one minute increments, or you can have a scroll of fly for the exact same cost! Adamantine full-plate cost 101-500 gold (Cheaper than full plate's normal cost of 1.5k), but some glue cost 50k+

[Fighting_Ferret]

The material costs of adamantium is the material cost, not the cost of the item with the material enhancement... thus adding the 500gp to the 1500 gp for the full plate armor for 2000 gp. In order to learn a scroll you have to buy it, and then spend 50gp per level of the scroll to inscribe it into your book.

[Shining Wrath]

I'm using 50 GP for first level spells and 100 GP for second.

Above that, it's going to start becoming hard to find them at any price. Special merchants found only in big cities, et cetera.

[Fighting_Ferret]

I'd go with 50 gp for cantrip scrolls and 100 gp for level 1 scrolls. level 2 scrolls I'd probably go for 200-250 gp per scroll. I agree that short of the lowest level spells, they shouldn't be available to purchase.

[Elbeyon]

I prefer the sword discount. Kill a wizard and you could double your spells. Anything else is a waste of gold.


The material costs of adamantium is the material cost, not the cost of the item with the material enhancement... thus adding the 500gp to the 1500 gp for the full plate armor for 2000 gp.That is incorrect. The dmg treats adamantine armor like a magic item. The item they list is adamantine armor (with its crit immunity), not the material components to make it. Using those rules adamantine armor can be cheaper than its normal counterparts.

[mephnick]

Saidoro also has Sane Magic Item Prices (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424243-Sane-Magic-Item-Prices). Though I disagree with a fair amount of his pricing. His potions of a 3rd level spell (water breathing) cost 180g while a scroll of the same spell is 200g. If anything scrolls should cost cheaper.

Off topic, but Cloak of Displacement for 60k? Man, my price seems way too low now.

Kryx (or anyone else), what would you value it at? I have a player looking for a merchant to turn her displacer beast skin into one.

[Fighting_Ferret]

I prefer the sword discount. Kill a wizard and you could double your spells. Anything else is a waste of gold.

That is incorrect. The dmg treats adamantine armor like a magic item. The item they list is adamantine armor (with its crit immunity), not the material components to make it. Using those rules adamantine armor can be cheaper than its normal counterparts.

Why would they give you armor at 1/3 of the cost with a bonus effect... it may not be specified, but It is certainly implied. Please don't advocate a loophole mentality because the developers couldn't clarify 100%. The BHB covers silvered weapons, why would armor act any differently?

[Elbeyon]

Why would they give you armor at 1/3 of the cost with a bonus effect... it may not be specified, but It is certainly implied. Please don't advocate a loophole mentality because the developers couldn't clarify 100%. The BHB covers silvered weapons, why would armor act any differently?That's a good question. I don't even think that it's implied. In fact, adamatine armor being armor seems pretty explicit.


Armor (medium or heavy, but not hide), uncommon
This suit of armor is reinforced with adamantine, one of the hardest substances in existence. While you're wearing it, any critical hit against you becomes a normal hit.

[Fighting_Ferret]

Ok I am AFB right now and couldn't look up the actual definition for adamantine, so I apologize for the "loophole mentality" comment. A lot of the magic item prices are a bit off, but I think it's because the default option is they aren't buy-able or sell-able. It just seems like the special materials are meant to be an upgrade over normal armor, but not magical in nature. Kind of funny how they have a great example of silver in the PHB and miss so poorly on the armor side.

[SharkForce]

Ok I am AFB right now and couldn't look up the actual definition for adamantine, so I apologize for the "loophole mentality" comment. A lot of the magic item prices are a bit off, but I think it's because the default option is they aren't buy-able or sell-able. It just seems like the special materials are meant to be an upgrade over normal armor, but not magical in nature. Kind of funny how they have a great example of silver in the PHB and miss so poorly on the armor side.

what's kind of funny is that they insist you can't buy or sell items, then include (really bad) rules for buying and selling them.

like I said, their item costs are trash. don't use them. imagine that they don't even exist, because pulling a number out of your hind end is likely to produce a better result.

[Kryx]

Off topic, but Cloak of Displacement for 60k? Man, my price seems way too low now.

Kryx (or anyone else), what would you value it at? I have a player looking for a merchant to turn her displacer beast skin into one.
60k sounds about right. Disadvantage is similar to 20% miss chance that PF had. It cost 50k there.

Though I didn't price any magic items - only consumables.

[Vogonjeltz]

There was a problem. Me and my DM couldn't find anywhere in the books the exact cost of the scrolls (per spell level). Huge problem. I need 'em, i crave them! Also i am not sure the potion list was clear enough about that.

Anyone care to help the shorty get it's scrolls so i can *BOOM* *SPLASH* *POW* my enemies, or friends...?

Thanx a lot in advance lads, or lasses!

I'll assume from your collaboration with the DM that they approve in advance your being able to purchase such things.

To help you avoid misleading information, here's some guidelines:

1) Prices for crafting are on 129 and rarity values of magic items are listed on 135. It's important to note that those are only suggestions to help the DM set prices.
2) Consumable value is suggested as 1/2 that of permanent items of the same rarity, so scrolls being one-offs are basically 1/2 cost.
3) If you want to craft a scroll/potion you must know the spell and have a spell slot to cast it. So anyone you are buying these items from either A) Found it. B) Got/Bought/Stole it from someone else, or C) Is capable of whatever you're trying to buy. Anything sold is probably marked up to take into consideration the cost of creation...otherwise why would they spend all those hours of labor?

Oh and adamantine is a property applied to a suit of armor, so rarity cost would be in addition to the base cost of the type of armor, not in lieu of it.

Steps:
1) Look up rarity value of the spell level you want on the scroll (page 200)
2) Look up cost of crafting that rarity value of item (page 129)
3) Add X% markup value to pay for the labor.

Also of note, if you don't have the spell on your list then the scroll is gibberish to you. This could also make the finding of a legendary scroll (i.e. 9th level spell scroll) a seriously epic quest.

Say, if your character were the chosen one of prophecy, the only living sorcerer (the last having died decades or centuries ago) who can read The Scroll of Destiny (Scroll of Wish, for example) and undo the dark pact of blah blah blah...you get the idea.

I figure high level scrolls are really quest items because it would be insane to spend the amount of time scribing that it would require (although a cabal of powerful characters could contribute to writing such a scroll as a group...but it's not clear why they would do that unless they knew the scroll would be needed at a time they could not exist, etc...).

[SharkForce]

or, alternately, the rules they included are stupid. like, really, really, really stupid. and should be ignored. that's an alternate interpretation.