Getting back into D&D

[KevlarTheD]

Hi everyone,

I've been away from D&D for a couple years now. A bunch of residents in my building have put together a gaming group and we're going to start a campaign this Sunday. It's been in the works for a couple months, and I've been reading up and learning 5e, right up to creating a few PC builds/characters to play with. Got an email the other day - we'll be running 3.5e. Uh oh. Between my time away from the game and filling my head with the new rules/classes/characters, I'm a little concerned as to my ability to build a 3.5e character that doesn't totally suck.

I have a couple of half-decent character ideas, point to the one which makes the most sense mechanically or appeals to you as a character to play. Hooks and ideas and mechanical advice are encouraged! Not going for game-breaking optimization here, as far as I know the group will contain some beginners and will start off limited to the PHB, but I'd like to have a realistically playable character. Thanks in advance for any input!


1. A LG or LN character who believes in discipline and following the rules. A path has been laid before each of us by the Gods, and deviating from it can only lead to misfortune. They also have a predilection for gambling with dice, the reason for their expulsion from their home monastery. As they explore the world and become more convinced of the truth of their way, their ideology takes a religious bent and their travels become a spiritual quest to help others find the path to peace and community.

I'm thinking a two-level dip in Monk will net me WIS to AC, evasion, and some minor handy stuff like improved grapple before going full Cleric for levels 3-onward.


2. A CG or CN character who is a Sorcerer passing themselves off as a Bard. In their home town, magic is taboo due to past incidents with wild magic. This particular character discovered inborn sorcerous powers and either hid them successfully or was outed, either way they were required to leave their village. Knowing how they would be treated if they were honest, they began to imitate the only kind of wanderer they saw who were welcomed with open arms - Bards. They took up an instrument (poorly) and fake travelling-minstrel-status when they come upon a new town, preferably leaving before their lack of Bardic talent is revealed.

This character was built in 5e, where Bards are more potent casters (can try and pass off more actual magic as 'bardic tricks') and wild magic effects can be built into the sorcerer's fluff. I suppose in 3.5e this would be mainly for backstory purposes. In 5e, I had this one down as Rogue1/Sorc19 with the Charlatan backstory. I think the build would still work. Rogue at 1 for the skills into bluff, disguise, perform, etc and sorc from there on out. Their initial sorcerous awakening need not be mechanically reflected from the outset, as they're still developing what will later amount to useful applications of their power.

It is appealing to me, conceptually, that this character never actually takes a level in Bard. That would make them an actual Bard. This character merely pretends to be one. But at what point does the illusion become the reality? They wander, playing music, and occasionally using secret magic tricks to help get themselves out of trouble. But not a Bard.

[Theodred theOld]

Gotta say I love the idea of posing as a bard. I may steal this for a character sometime.

[Flickerdart]

I would avoid both of the characters you mention, out of concern for the newbies:


The monk is frequently thought by newbies to be a powerful class, and dipping looks to the untrained eye to be an evil munchkin trick.
New players might be confused by a character not actually being the class that they appear to be.

[ComaVision]

Both look like they'd work fine in a low to mid op group. I like the monk character concept more than the bard.

[Jay R]

English words often have more than one meaning, especially used as jargon. Anybody who stands up and performs is a bard, but that usage has nothing to do with the Bard class, which could just as easily be renamed "Class 8".

Similarly, I had a 2E thief who never stole anything. The Thief class determined his abilities, but he was not a thief.

[marphod]

The monk is frequently thought by newbies to be a powerful class, and dipping looks to the untrained eye to be an evil munchkin trick.
New players might be confused by a character not actually being the class that they appear to be.


For the Monk/Cleric, talk the DM first and get their opinion on multiclassing characters and level dips. And the power level of the Monk class. If any of those are a concern, skip.

For the Rogue/Sorc, is the secret supposed to be from the other players or just IC? If IC, I'd no concerns. If you're trying to fool the players as well, that's going to be really hard.

[Jay R]

If you're trying to fool the players as well, that's going to be really hard.

It's not that hard, but it won't be permanent. The revelation to the party can be the most fun part of it. Just make it a joke they become part of, rather than a joke on them.

In an Old West game, I announced that I was going to build a character based on a TV western. I showed up with Cali Yang, a martial artist clearly patterned after Kwai-Chang Cain of *Kung Fu*. I had fun inventing eastern-style proverbs while fighting hand-to-hand.

Until about four sessions in, when he washed off the makeup and revealed himself as Cal Young, federal agent, patterned on the disguise artist Artemus Gordon from *Wild, Wild West*.

[KevlarTheD]

For the Rogue/Sorc, is the secret supposed to be from the other players or just IC? If IC, I'd no concerns. If you're trying to fool the players as well, that's going to be really hard.

Not gonna lie, the pretending-to-be-a-bard character idea is my favourite. Backstory for the group: I live in a condo and this is the first ever session of a D&D group that started with a note in the lobby. I have not actually met the DM or the other characters. As this is my first time playing with a group that isn't comprised of friends, I relish the idea of being able to successfully maintain the charade for a level or three. I prefer to think that the DM will go along with my deception - worst-case scenario, it's purely in-character & an entirely inconsequential backstory as to how I ended up in the local tavern where I meet the other wandering adventurers. In the most extremely opposite version, nobody will figure out I'm not a Bard-with-a-capital-B until... well, ever.
I realize in retrospect that fake-bard may have been influenced by Sir Bearington, but let's keep that secret for now.

As to the Lawful character, I'm not sure what Flickerdart means re: munchkin (?). I thought the monk was a fairly underpowered class - I'll be sitting at BAB +1 and very few spells at third level after taking Cleric 1, and would limit/delay my super-high-level spells by dipping out of cleric at all. I would like this character to be persistent, and the monk levels give me a bit of added survivability without having to RP donning and doffing armour, plus a good hook for my backstory. I'd like to play a cleric who increases in power as they find their faith and connection to the deity, and I think starting off in a different class would be more interesting than going cleric from the outset. What else besides monk do you think would work?
The Paladin in 3.5 seems a bit lame and the Fighter blasé. Ranger? Druid? (don't want to bother with all that animal stuff). Surely not Rogue?

[Kol Korran]

Heya, some nice ideas. Two small notes though:
1. Most monk abilities if I remember, dont' work whiel wearign armor or carryign heavy load or such, if I rememebr correctl. Which means that as a cleric they'll be useless while wearign armor, which you will most likely be doing. (Wis to AC, Evasion and so on).
2. Dipping with casters means that you level up in spell use later. Sorcerers allready get delayed a level, which means bot hte cleric and sorcerer will get 2nd level at 5th level, and the cleric at 4th, or two whole levels late. This is usually considered bad, since you're quite less effective, which can lead to your furstration, compared to the challenges. Some peopel like this though, for the challenge (Both caster classes are quite powerful.

A note about the sorcerer: Not sure how much you need the rogue level for. Sure, Sorcerers are skill starved, but with a decent int, human race and a few other stuff you can get by. You mostly need the bluff skill, which is allready a sorcerer skill. Disguise you can easily get either with a spell or a hat of disguise (Which you will probably be able to afford by 3-4the level), and perform? I suggest just takign one rank in it to seem passable, (And trained) and that's it. No need for more. Your "treu performance" can be doen with wild tales of bluffing and so on. Go more for the "You won't believe it when you hear it!" Kinda tales. The rogue level will hurt you quite a lot on the way I think, and may lead to great frustration.

[Andezzar]

For the Monk/Cleric, talk the DM first and get their opinion on multiclassing characters and level dips. And the power level of the Monk class. If any of those are a concern, skip.
If they are not a concern, ask if the DM follows the rule that text trumps table and go Sacred Fist.

[Sagetim]

English words often have more than one meaning, especially used as jargon. Anybody who stands up and performs is a bard, but that usage has nothing to do with the Bard class, which could just as easily be renamed "Class 8".

Similarly, I had a 2E thief who never stole anything. The Thief class determined his abilities, but he was not a thief.

Then I assume you never got a potential mountain of bonus xp for stealing things? (at a 1 for 1 ratio for the gp value of stolen goods...just, damn, that could build up).

As for monk/priest vs totallyabard sorcerer....Either of these could be fun concepts to play. Since you've expressed an interest in going with sorcerer, I would suggest going sorcerer and just sorcerer. A rogue level is going to stagnate your ability to cast spells a lot. Not having a third level spell until level 7 would just Hurt. As mentioned in an earlier post: Bluff is going to be your friend. You can probably swing some perform too, just from charisma modifier and a few cross class ranks if nothing else. Between a good charisma mod of +3 or more, a masterwork instrument for +2 more, and 2 or 3 ranks of perform as cross class skills, you could swing a nice, near professional +8. That means scraping by on a 2 or better with perform. Mix in some prestidigitation for stage magic tricks and you could have an act that you could take on the road and make a very crap living with. If you really want to go full force into performing however, you would need permission to get feats that aren't in the player's handbook. There's a number out there that would let you add perform, or even bluff (I think) to your class skill list. Skill Focus could help too, but it would definitely be a case of building for form over (combat) function.

If you're limited to player's handbook only, you aren't going to have access to sacred fist anyway (which was complete divine if I recall correctly). Or even any prestige classes (the first ones were in the DMG). But a Sorcerer with Skill Focus, a Masterwork Instrument, 3 cross class ranks of Perform, and a charisma modifier of, say, +2 or better is going to have a +10 (or better) perform modifier. And that's enough to Always make Some cash, and enough to consistently make more money than an unskilled laborer, and enough to regularly make at least 3 times as much as an unskilled laborer. With a lucky roll you'll even make a sizable chunk of gold.

[Mrs Kat]

I think that you should ask your DM about prestige classes. You said that you're starting with only PHB allowed, but maybe your DM would be open to prestige classes once you're level 5 or so.

Rogue/Sorc into spellwarp sniper (complete scoundrel) or arcane trickster (DMG) are both solid choices. I have played Rogue/Sorcerer->spellwarp previously, and while you lag a whole spell level behind Wizard, you do very respectable damage and make a decent scout with proper investment in Hide. If you're not allowed prestige classes, go for a full sorcerer with some cross-class skills.

Monk/Cleric I'm less sure about. Particularly as you're PHB only, and so feats that would help you play as an unarmoured cleric (ascetic priest, law devotion, zen archery) are few and far between. If you go for this, go for a frontline cleric with righteous might, greater magic vestment on his clothes, greater magic weapon on his fists and a monk's belt to scale his unarmed damage. Also, ask about stacking the 3/4 base attack from both classes so you don't lose a point. You won't be optimal, but you will look cool. And that's the important thing.

[DrMartin]

if you want to go as the totallyabard option, you could consider taking your first level as human paragon, and picking perform as your adaptable skill. pick your second character level as a sorcerer, then go back to human paragon for those sweet sweet 2nd and 3rd level.

nevermind, haven't seen the only phb clause