Letting Hunter Ranger have a Pet

[Ramshack]

So I had a new player want to join a campaign but he had never played DnD before. He always plays a bow wielding, pet class in every RPG so naturally I tell him about the ranger. He is disappointed in the Beastmaster class after reading it with him and he reluctantly decides to play the hunter archetype. I explain he could still purchase a pet such as a riding dog and use the animal handling skill etc but it would take his action. Long story short he makes some good discussion points about why would it take an action to verbally give a command to your pet.

I thought about it and decided he he could play his Hunter Ranger, and buy a pet, and use his Bonus action to command it. He bought a wolf, and the gameplay worked out fine. I kept the part about adding proficiency bonuses and the HP scaling as well.He had to make real choices about commanding his pet or casting spells, etc. He damage output was good, but not better then our Barbarian and I felt it added some real flavor to his character.

Though I told him, we may have to play with the rules if it's over powered, I feel it has worked fine in my campaign I was just wondering how others felt about this, or if there were other solutions people have play tested.

[Sigreid]

I do think the beastmaster is under rated since the pet can do more than attack (i.e. helper action for combat, and perception rolls). While I know the pet takes ranger actions in the pursuit of balance, I can see a reasoning behind it. I think anyone who's fought in team matches recognizes that fighting together takes practice in order for you to not get in each other's way. It sounds like you basically gave him both sub-classes. I think where your problem is going to come in is giving the pet the beastmaster power increases. Early levels it's no big deal. Later on, that is going to be a really powerful wolf.

[Naanomi]

He will have 4 attacks (two wolf, one his, horde breaker) way before a fighter will, and spells on top of it

[NotVeryBatman]

How would the wolf get two attacks?

[MadGrady]

How would the wolf get two attacks?

AFB at the moment, but I believe wolves have multiattack (claw and bite)

[Naanomi]

No they don't but beast masters eventually get 2-for-1 on attacks for their pets

[NotVeryBatman]

Hence, my question: how can any Hunter Ranger progression grant two attacks to a pet? Bestial Fury's unique to Beast Masters.

[Naanomi]

I assumed since they were allowing hp and proficiency bonus they were getting other beadtmaster abilities but...

Since they *are* letting it be controlled with a bonus action (better than beastmaster) they end up with 4 attacks anyways

[Crusher]

I do think the beastmaster is under rated since the pet can do more than attack (i.e. helper action for combat, and perception rolls). While I know the pet takes ranger actions in the pursuit of balance, I can see a reasoning behind it. I think anyone who's fought in team matches recognizes that fighting together takes practice in order for you to not get in each other's way. It sounds like you basically gave him both sub-classes. I think where your problem is going to come in is giving the pet the beastmaster power increases. Early levels it's no big deal. Later on, that is going to be a really powerful wolf.

The hard answer is that no, I don't think this combination makes a Hunter Ranger OP relative to other classes. However, it makes Beastmaster Hunters even weaker than they already are (and they're probably narrowly ahead of Thief as the weakest arch-type in the game right now). Honestly, I'd consider making hunters just have a single path at level 3 and have it include both sets of abilities. That would probably make them about about right.

[Sigreid]

The hard answer is that no, I don't think this combination makes a Hunter Ranger OP relative to other classes. However, it makes Beastmaster Hunters even weaker than they already are (and they're probably narrowly ahead of Thief as the weakest arch-type in the game right now). Honestly, I'd consider making hunters just have a single path at level 3 and have it include both sets of abilities. That would probably make them about about right.

The only real problem I see with beastmaster is that when you start encountering opponents with damage resistance with some regularity they can no longer really hurt them.

[LordBlades]

He will have 4 attacks (two wolf, one his, horde breaker) way before a fighter will, and spells on top of it

At level 11 he would have 4 attacks (2 ranger, 2 animal), 5 if Horde Breaker comes into play, which is not a guarantee.

Animal attacks are however pretty weak unless the DM works with you to make stuff like Belt of GiantbStrength wearable by it.

Take the aforementioned wolf: for a 11th level ranger it attacks twice at +8 for 2d4+6 damage (average 11).
Now take a fighter with a +1 greatsword and 20 Str. Attacks at +10 for 2d6+6 damage (average 13), except this attack can be further augmented by fighter class abilities and/or feats.

Regarding ranger gets spells, Eldritch knigjt fighter gets them too, and is it not considered one of the weaker fighter paths?

Wow, ranger is way worse than I had imagined if by combining both paths and removing action restrictions from the animal you end up with something at best marginally better than a fighter...

[Ramshack]

At level 11 he would have 4 attacks (2 ranger, 2 animal), 5 if Horde Breaker comes into play, which is not a guarantee.

Animal attacks are however pretty weak unless the DM works with you to make stuff like Belt of GiantbStrength wearable by it.

Take the aforementioned wolf: for a 11th level ranger it attacks twice at +8 for 2d4+6 damage (average 11).
Now take a fighter with a +1 greatsword and 20 Str. Attacks at +10 for 2d6+6 damage (average 13), except this attack can be further augmented by fighter class abilities and/or feats.

Regarding ranger gets spells, Eldritch knigjt fighter gets them too, and is it not considered one of the weaker fighter paths?

Wow, ranger is way worse than I had imagined if by combining both paths and removing action restrictions from the animal you end up with something at best marginally better than a fighter...

I wasn't giving any other bonuses from beast master to the player. Simply helping his wolf stay competitive with the proficiency bonuses and scalable HP and then allowing him to command it as a bonus action.

Though combining the action bonuses isn't too bad either

[djreynolds]

Give him a little goblin henchmen or one-armed gnome, probably better than a wolf pet.

But seriously, have him drop some coin an hire a mercenary if his level is high enough and the DM allows it.

[PoeticDwarf]

So I had a new player want to join a campaign but he had never played DnD before. He always plays a bow wielding, pet class in every RPG so naturally I tell him about the ranger. He is disappointed in the Beastmaster class after reading it with him and he reluctantly decides to play the hunter archetype. I explain he could still purchase a pet such as a riding dog and use the animal handling skill etc but it would take his action. Long story short he makes some good discussion points about why would it take an action to verbally give a command to your pet.

I thought about it and decided he he could play his Hunter Ranger, and buy a pet, and use his Bonus action to command it. He bought a wolf, and the gameplay worked out fine. I kept the part about adding proficiency bonuses and the HP scaling as well.He had to make real choices about commanding his pet or casting spells, etc. He damage output was good, but not better then our Barbarian and I felt it added some real flavor to his character.

Though I told him, we may have to play with the rules if it's over powered, I feel it has worked fine in my campaign I was just wondering how others felt about this, or if there were other solutions people have play tested.
BM is strong, a flying snake deals way more damage (especially from level 11) than you could do with a bow. Help as bonus action gives you good sharpshooter damage and to hit from level 7+. I prefer BM far above hunter...

[LordBlades]

BM is strong, a flying snake deals way more damage (especially from level 11) than you could do with a bow. Help as bonus action gives you good sharpshooter damage and to hit from level 7+. I prefer BM far above hunter...

It's still not that much damage compared to pretty much any other damage focused character.