I want rider effects! I want the game to lag when I punch a monster.

[pwcsponson]

Hello fellow playgrounders. I've got a silly idea, nothing concrete yet. I want to build a character that, when he attacks a monster, forces tons of checks.

So far I've been thinking of a Half-Minotaur Water-Orc Monk/Barbarian/Swordsage, probably around ECL9, with feats and ACFs such as Power Attack, Knockdown, Imp Trip, Knockback, and Stunning Fist.

He'd have the Necklace of Natural Attacks with Brutal Surge, Dispelling, and Stunning Surge.

So on a single punch I roll a trip, two bullrushes, a dispel, and force two saves. With maneuvers like Stone Vise and Clever positioning I force another save. Maybe I could somehow poison my fists for a total of four saves?

I know Cleave Asunder and Improved Sunder can generate an attack, but it's not really an opposed check or save.
What other rider effects can you guys give me?

[gooddragon1]

Hello fellow playgrounders. I've got a silly idea, nothing concrete yet. I want to build a character that, when he attacks a monster, forces tons of checks.

So far I've been thinking of a Half-Minotaur Water-Orc Monk/Barbarian/Swordsage, probably around ECL9, with feats and ACFs such as Power Attack, Knockdown, Imp Trip, Knockback, and Stunning Fist.

He'd have the Necklace of Natural Attacks with Brutal Surge, Dispelling, and Stunning Surge.

So on a single punch I roll a trip, two bullrushes, a dispel, and force two saves. With maneuvers like Stone Vise and Clever positioning I force another save. Maybe I could somehow poison my fists for a total of four saves?

I know Cleave Asunder and Improved Sunder can generate an attack, but it's not really an opposed check or save.
What other rider effects can you guys give me?

Well, if you're willing to be evil...

The pestilence domain from spell compendium grants this:
You gain immunity to the effects of all diseases, though you can still carry infectious diseases.

There are 4 injury diseases and 3 contact diseases just in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#disease).

That's 7 fortitude saves.

[Telonius]

Make sure it does some Strength damage along with that, so the DM has to quickly recalculate its attacks and damage. Can you somehow get Spell-Storing on a natural weapon, to use a Reduce Person or Reduce Animal? Kensai might be able to do that.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Necklace of Natural weapons should get you spell storing.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Touch of Golden Ice will force evil creatures to save or be affected by the ravage Golden Ice.

It's an Exalted feat, so it requires you to be good.

[Darrin]

What other rider effects can you guys give me?

From Not called GREAT Club for nothing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?49522):

Three Mountains Style (Complete Warrior, maybe with the Adaptive property from ToB)
Brutal Strike (PHBII)

Also:
Crushing Strike (PHBII)
Staggering Strike (Complete Adventurer)

[pwcsponson]

Make sure it does some Strength damage along with that, so the DM has to quickly recalculate its attacks and damage. Can you somehow get Spell-Storing on a natural weapon, to use a Reduce Person or Reduce Animal? Kensai might be able to do that.

Maybe I could take one level in Sorcerer to get Fell Drain Sonic Snaps to put in the fists. Its another fort save vs Deafened and then recalculating negative levels.



Three Mountains Style (Complete Warrior, maybe with the Adaptive property from ToB)
Brutal Strike (PHBII)

Also:
Crushing Strike (PHBII)
Staggering Strike (Complete Adventurer)

Brutal Strike seems great, and Three Mountains with Adaptive Style seems really good, too.

Crushing Strike seems really really bad. It adds cumulative +1s... requiring a tons of feats and BaB 14?


Well, if you're willing to be evil...

The pestilence domain from spell compendium grants this:
You gain immunity to the effects of all diseases, though you can still carry infectious diseases.

There are 4 injury diseases and 3 contact diseases just in the SRD.

That's 7 fortitude saves.
That's amazing! I'll have to give that a look.

[DarkSonic1337]

Does anyone know what happens when you activate a wand of a touch spell that grants multiple touch attacks (like chill touch)?

For example, use a wand of chill touch at caster level 20. Do you get your 20 uses of chill touch? If so, get one of those and hold the charge all day for one more fort save vs str damage (get parching touch for fort save vs con damage too!).

[Jowgen]

If you get bracers of striking (MoF) as well as the Amulet of Natural Attacks, then you get more space for WSA on your punches.

I say, add the Assassination (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a) WSA to the amulet or bracers, so that a) your "striking surface" becomes "jet black", b) you get Sneak Attack, and thus access to Staggering Strike, without need for rogue levels and c) your body turns into a poison sponge of sorts without danger of you poisoning yourself.

After that, get some weapon capsule retainers and make sure your punches/kicks/whatever are always nicely coated in poison. Ideally, poisons with frequent and very difficult to handle effects. Bonus points if they cripple saves for the purposes of combing with the host of diseases and the golden ice you're probably already carrying.

Oh, on the topic of diseases, via the Touchstone feat and the Catalogue's of enlightenment, you can pick up the granted power of the pestilence domain gooddragon1 mentioned. +1 to that idea btw.

Also, bring cookies or something to keep your DM happy as you subject him to this torture. :smallwink:

[OldTrees1]

I say, add the Assassination (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a) WSA to the amulet or bracers, so that a) your "striking surface" becomes "jet black", b) you get Sneak Attack, and thus access to Staggering Strike, without need for rogue levels and c) your body turns into a poison sponge of sorts without danger of you poisoning yourself.

WotC forgot to call the damage from Assassination Sneak Attack. Thus I don't think it qualifies you for Staggering Strike itself. However that is fixed by buying Assassin's Stance from the magic items in ToB.

[pwcsponson]

On the topic of diseases... the effects aren't immediate, so they're just forcing saves for no real reason right? I mean, they incubate for a day and then come into effect but I've killed the monster already.

Edit:
So far he's ECL 9, with one level adjustment buy off.
Half-Minotaur Human Monk1/Sorc1/Barb2/Warblade5

Necklace of Natural Attacks: +1, Spell Storing, Assassination

The first attack roll applies:
Knockdown - Opposed Trip (Applies to all attacks until opponent is tripped)
Initiator Maneuver - Rider Effect (Only applies to one attack a round)
Brutal Strike - Fort Save vs Nausea (Only applies to one attack a round)
Spell Storing - Sonic Snap - Fort Save vs Deafened (Only applies to one attack until recast)
Spell Storing - Sonic Snap - No Save vs Negative Level (Only applies to one attack until recast)
Stunning Fist - Fort Save vs Stun (Can apply to every attack, up to 3/day)
Injury Poison - Fort Save vs Poison (Money/Obtainment issues, but generally can apply to every attack)
Knockback - Opposed Bullrush (Must do this last, and only once, or else lose extra attacks from Imp Trip)
Improved Grab - Opposed Grapple Check (Apples to all attacks until opponent is grappled, then force more grapple checks)

That's a lot of Fort saves, anything that targets will or reflex?

[Jowgen]

WotC forgot to call the damage from Assassination Sneak Attack. Thus I don't think it qualifies you for Staggering Strike itself. However that is fixed by buying Assassin's Stance from the magic items in ToB.

Whatever do you mean? I think it's pretty clearly called out as SA damage. Not even just precision, proper SA.


If the wielder deals sneak attack damage from other sources, such as levels in the rogue class, the extra damage stacks


On the topic of diseases... the effects aren't immediate, so they're just forcing saves for no real reason right? I mean, they incubate for a day and then come into effect but I've killed the monster already.

There is bound to be some supernatural diseases of terror hidden away somewhere that kick the incubation conventions square in the teeth, right?

[OldTrees1]

Whatever do you mean? I think it's pretty clearly called out as SA damage. Not even just precision, proper SA.

I missed the "from other sources" part. The damage was not labeled as SA prior to that. Thanks for the find(and the correction)!

[Jowgen]

Thanks for the find(and the correction)!

Don't mention it. It's what I do. :smallcool:


For the general topic, found another fun WSA you might want to add on: Silent Strike, from Dragon 330 p. 67. It's a +1 and every hit forces a DC 15 Will save against being Silenced for 4 Rounds. :smallsmile:

[StreamOfTheSky]

I like the way the OP thinks! :smallbiggrin:

A lot of the best options have been mentioned already. There's also Intimidating Strike for a demoralize when you hit, can be combined with Imperious Command to cower the foe and Never Outnumbered skill trick to cower a whole area. You're probably better off just getting Fearsome property on your armor to intimidate as a move action, though.

Stunning Fist is a good way to add an effect to an attack. Pain Touch will add nauseated on the following round after the stun. Pharaoh's Fist will turn Stunning Fist into an area attack. And if you want to use an actual weapon since it's easier to add properties to, you can get a Ki Focus Scorpion Kama.

Aside from Staggering Strike (which doesn't fall into this category, actually), one of my favorite feats... There's the whole Ambush feat category to reduce sneak attack damage to inflict various effects. Most are subpar, though. Hamstring is decent to drop the foe's speed.

I think the next step to having lots of effects on your attacks is to get Combat Reflexes and enhance the number of times you're making these attacks. Supernatural Instincts and Mage Slayer are good for vastly expanding when you can take AoOs...Hold the Line to a lesser extent...

[erok0809]

There is bound to be some supernatural diseases of terror hidden away somewhere that kick the incubation conventions square in the teeth, right?

BoVD has Warp Touch, which is always fun. If you fail the DC 20 Fort Save, you roll on a d100 table and figure out what happens. Some percentage is just death, some are bad, some are fluff, and some are actually even buffs. All of the fluff is negative, but some of the effects are actually mechanical benefits. It's super fun to use against PCs, because its incurable; it's an instantaneous effect, so the magic is gone as soon as you fail the save and the effect happens. Cure Disease and the like do nothing.

Also, yeah, I made a Monk/Cancer Mage/Kensai once with every injury/contact disease I could find, and also had his fists coated in a poison. Without even any effort beyond that, it was like 13 fort saves if he did damage, or 6 or 7 if he touched you (a house rule made that possible). If he got a full attack where he could flurry, there was potential for like 40 or 50 or so saves needed on that turn if he hit you with all his attacks.

[Telok]

From the Magic Item Compendium
BANISHING, Price: +2 bonus, banish that creature back to its home plane (Will DC 20 negates)

DISLOCATOR, Price: +1 bonus, teleported up to 10 feet in any direction you choose (Will DC 17 negates)

DISPELLING, Price: +1 bonus, targeted dispel magic effect (as the spell)

DOMINEERING, Price: +2 bonus, shaken for 1 minute (Will DC 16 negates)

HEAVENLY BURST, Price: +1 bonus, critical hitDC 14 Fortitude save negates the blindness

KNOCKBACK, Price: +1 bonus, DC 19 Fortitude save or be pushed back 5 feet

MINDCRUSHER, Price: +2 bonus, any nonpsionic creature, must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or take 1 point of Wisdom damage

PARALYTIC BURST, Price: +2 bonus, critical hit DC 17 Will save or be paralyzed

PRISMATIC BURST, Price: +30,000 gp, Whenever you score a successful critical hit with this weapon, multicolored light springs from the gems and cascades along its blade or head, subjecting the target to a prismatic spray effect (save DC 20; see spell description, PH 264). This effect activates even if the target is not normally subject to extra damage from critical hits.

SHATTERMANTLE, Price: +1 bonus, Each time the weapon strikes a foe that has spell resistance, the value of that spell resistance is reduced by 2 for 1 round. The penalties for multiple hits during the same round stack

SLOW BURST, Price: +5,000 gp, critical hit with this weapon, the target is slowed (as the slow spell) for 3 rounds (Will DC 14 negates)

STUNNING [SYNERGY], Price: +1 bonus, on a successful critical hit with a stunning weapon, the target must succeed on a DC 17 Fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round.

STUNNING SURGE, Price: +1 bonus, Fortitude save (DC 10 +1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier), it is stunned for 1 round.

VENOMOUS, Price: +1 bonus, injury poison (Fort DC 14, 1d4 Str/1d4 Str), which lasts for 1 minute or until your next successful attack

WEAKENING, Price: +1 bonus, critical hit with a weakening weapon, the target takes a - 4 penalty to its Strength score (to a minimum score of 1) for 10 minutes