The White Mage, or making a better Healer (3.5 Prestige Classes; Please PEACH)

[INoKnowNames]

Prestige Class: White Mage -- Savant of Life

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qrCp-6grUmg/VYsthaPNw6I/AAAAAAAAQaY/ilP3DNdZe-Q/w800-h800/jBVG5Ey.jpg

"Damn it all." Kayla curses her predicament. As the wounded warrior lay bleeding out, the skeleton knight raises a blood stained greataxe, intent to snuff out another flame of creation. Before the final attack can be landed, a ray of searing white energy flies past her head and directly strikes the skeleton, incinerating it. The still glowing hand of the white mage who cast the spell then comes to rest on his companions shoulder, filling her with life energy. "Thanks for the save, Alexander!" the proud fighter exclaims, feeling better than ever as magic courses through her. The white mage only replies with a nod and smile before continuing.

Positive Energy is one of the elemental forces that shape all of existence. It is one of the common tools used by good against the forces of evil, particularly the undead. However, a certain sect of hero, the White Mage, actively studies the relationship between the body, the spirit, and the spark of creation that connects the two. White Mages master the power of positive energy, greatly increasing its effectiveness, to protect the living and combat undeath. Be it by bolstering the energies of their partners or ensuring the destruction of evil necromancers, White Mages are powerful forces of justice.

Becoming a White Mage

Above all else, a White Mage is a spellcaster with extensive magical prowess and control over positive energy. The majority of White Mages are normally Clerics or Healers dedicated to righteous ideals or good aligned gods. Adepts and certain variants of Bards may also pursue this training, though they are significantly rarer than normal practitioners. Though Paladins typically manipulate positive energy, they cannot normally access the depth of spellcasting to become a White Mage. While Druids have the magical talent, their power is centered over nature and the primal elements, barring them from the training required in most cases.

As a White Mage is still a spellcaster first and foremost, his spellcasting stat is still his most vital ability score. In order to continue to survive in the crusade against evil, Constitution and Dexterity are both important to improve resilience. Intelligence is also beneficial to meet the skill point qualification for the class. Charisma is also useful, spellcasting or not, due to additional class features that are improved by this stat.

Hit Dice: d4

Entry Requirements
Alignment: Any Good
Skills: Heal 8 Ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 6 Ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 6 Ranks, Spellcraft 6 Ranks
Feats: Skill Focus [Heal, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Religion), or Knowledge (The Planes)], Maximize Spell, Mastery of Day and Night.
Spellcasting: Must have a spell list with access to Cure Critical Wounds and Raise Dead.
Special: The character must never cast a necromancy spell designed to cripple, injure, or kill the living, and must never animate, create, or otherwise produce undead. Beings sustained by negative energy are also unable to qualify.

Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Reflex Will Special Spellcasting
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Angelic Combat, Gentle Breeze, Flickering Embers -
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Exalted Healing, Aura of Dawn +1 Spellcasting Level
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Resplendent Techniques +1 Spellcasting Level
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Benediction +1 Spellcasting Level
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Angelic Force, Rekindled Flames +1 Spellcasting Level
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Light Manipulation +1 Spellcasting Level
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Salvation +1 Spellcasting Level
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Illuminated Aurora, Divine Intervention +1 Spellcasting Level
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Positive Soul, Rain of Nirvana +1 Spellcasting Level
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Absolution, Heavenly Power +1 Spellcasting Level


Class Skills
The White Mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features: All of the following are class features of the White Mage prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: White Mages gain no weapon or armor proficiency.

Spellcasting (Su): At each level except first, a White Mage gains new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast the required spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a White Mage, the player must decide which class to assign each level of White Mage for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.

Angelic Combat (Ex): Due to extensive knowledge over the living, White Mages may engage in combat without resorting to bloodshed. A White Mage may inflict non-lethal damage using any weapon without suffering a penalty to attack rolls. He may also use the Coup de Grace action to incapacitate rather than slay, setting the target's nonlethal damage to 1.5 times its maximum hit points. Finally, he may modify any spell he casts that deal hit point damage to instead deal nonlethal damage; this decision is made during casting and affects all targets the same way.

Gentle Breeze (Su): A White Mage can manipulate the positive energy of the world to cast his Cure Spells as a ray with a range of 5 ft. per Class Level, rather than at Touch. He must succeed on a ranged touch attack to affect an unwilling target; such targets may still make Will Saves to take half damage.

Flickering Embers (Ex): If a White Mage has the ability to Turn Undead by way of another class, his White Mage Levels stack with those class levels. He does not gain the ability if he did not already have it, however. If he could somehow Rebuke Undead, he loses that ability.

Aura of Dawn (Su): At 2nd level, a White Mage is forever affected by a Sanctuary effect, as the spell except as noted. The Difficulty Check to resist it is 10 + the White Mage's class level + his Charisma Modifier. Should he make an action that would break it, it returns after 2d4 rounds, after the last action that would have broken it has ceased.

If an enemy fails its saving throw, they are unable to attack the White Mage for a number of rounds equal to the White Mage's character level. Undead that are vulnerable to positive energy gain a bonus to their Will Save equal to the White Mage's character level, and are unable to attack for 1 round. If an enemy succeeds on it's saving throw, they are immune to this aura for 24 hours.

As an added benefit, White Mages are immune to the effects of a Major Positive-Dominant Plane; merely gaining fast healing.

Exalted Healing (Su): At 2th level, when a Cure Spell heals a target up to his maximum hit points, the excess amount healed becomes temporary hit points. Any target may store a number of temporary hit points equal to three times the target's hit dice. This healing lasts for a number of minutes equal to the class level of the White Mage before harmlessly dissipating, and is depleted first whenever its recipient takes damage.

Resplendent Techniques (Su): At 3nd level, the skill of the White Mage is able to be used directly in the application of his signature spells. He may add 1/4th his Heal Skill modifier to his Caster Level for the amount of damage healed by his Cure Spells, and may raise the Caster Level limit of those spells by 1/4th his Knowledge (Religion) Skill modifier (allowing him to apply more of his regular caster level to lower level spells). He may also add 1/4th his Knowledge (The Planes) Skill modifier to the Difficulty Checks of his Cure Spells, and 1/4th his Spellcraft Skill Modifier to attempts to overcome Spell Resistance.

Benediction (Su): At 4th Level, a being healed by a White Mage's Cure Spell gains a bonus on all saving throws equal to half the base spell level of the spell for a number of rounds equal to the White Mage's Charisma Modifier. Additionally, for half that time, the healed may choose to expend this blessing as a free action to immediately reroll a saving throw, even if they have already failed it, so long as the being is still alive. The recipient may use this option to attempt to recover from a condition currently affecting them, so long as that condition has a related saving throw. A White Mage may not benefit from this ability if he heals himself.

Angelic Force (Su): At 5th level, whenever a White Mage casts a Cure Spell from his spell slots, the spell is automatically affected as though by the Empower Spell feat. This does not use up a higher level slot or increased casting time. This ability stacks with Mastery of Day and Night. Class features that add to the numerical amount healed by Cure Spells, such as Resplendent Techniques, are also affected by this ability. Additionally, the White Mage now treats any immunity to Positive Energy as Spell Resistance equal to double the hit dice of the creature possessing it, regardless of source. Finally, the range of the range of any Cure Spell the White Mage casts becomes Close, and the range of any Mass Cure Spell he casts becomes Medium, rather than Close. The distance between any individual target of his Mass Cure Spells increases to 60 ft.

Rekindled Flames (Ex): At 5th level, if the White Mage could not Turn Undead, he gains that ability, based on his White Mage class level. If he already could Turn Undead, he gains Extra Turning as a bonus feat.

Light Manipulation (Su): At 6rd level, by spending a Turn Undead attempt, a White Mage may attempt to enhance his Cure Spells with Enlarge Spell, Chain Spell, Quicken Spell, Still Spell, or Silent Spell, without increasing the spell level or casting time, even if he does not possess the metamagic feat in question. However, he must follow all other rules regarding the implementation of the spells, and he must succeed on a Turning Check equal to thrice the modified spell level. Should he fail the check, both the spell and the Turn Undead attempt are expended, as are the actions such spells would have used.

Salvation (Su): At 7th level, when casting Raise Dead, Resurrection, or True Resurrection, a White Mage may modify the spell in several ways by spending a turn undead attempt. First, merely by invoking this magic, the White Mage may prevent the target from losing a hit dice or constitution points, and in the process gain a temporary negative level. This negative level may never be permanent, and disappears after a number of days equal to the hit dice of the target minus the white mage's class level (minimum 1).

Additionally, by succeeding on a Turning Check equal to twice the hit dice of the target, he may reduce the casting time of the spell from whatever it may have been to one full round. Finally, regardless of the previous result, he may still make a Turning Damage Roll, and subtract the amount of diamonds needed by the result of the roll times 500 gp. If this number is greater than the amount required of the spell, then the spell requires no material component, the White Mage's holy symbol sufficing as a focus.

Illuminated Aurora (Su): At 8th level, a White Mage is forever surrounded by an effect similar to an altar-less Consecrate spell. Allies within this aura share the White Mage's immunity to the effects of a Major Positive-Dominant environment, merely gaining fast healing. Additionally, the power of this aura can be increased. For a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier, the White Mage may gain the effect of a Hallow spell. He may not add a spell to the area, though all other benefits stack with those granted by his Consecrate aura. This may be done a number of times a day equal to half his character level. He does not need to provide the material component for either state of his aura.

Divine Intervention (Su): At 8th level, a White Mage may spend a Turn Undead attempt to cast a Cure Spell as an Immediate Action, even during the middle of an enemy's attack. This ability is as Light Manipulation, but treat the modified spell level for using it as 6. This ability may only be used once per round. If used to heal a target as it takes damage, this effectively prevents the damage.

Positive Soul (Su): At 9th level, the White Mage's soul generates an additional amount of positive energy equal to 1 + his Charisma Modifier (minimum 1). He may use this energy to fuel his class features. If he uses this energy for Light Manipulation, he need only succeed on a Turning Check equal to twice the modified spell level. If he invokes it for Salvation, he need only succeed on a Turning Check equal to 1.5 times the hit dice of the target (rounded up), and he subtracts his Turning Damage times 750 gp from the cost of the spells. He may use this energy as a cost for Illuminated Aurora, if he is out of daily uses of that ability.

He may also use this energy to bolster his companions. As a standard action touch attack, or as a free action when affecting an ally with a Cure Spell (only if he is not using the energy for Light Manipulation), he may fill this ally with Positive Energy by making a Turning Damage Check. The ally gains a sacred bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, saving throws, skill checks, and caster level bonuses equal to one third the amount that the Turning Damage Check exceeds the target's hit dice, up to an amount equal to the target's Constitution Modifier (minimum 1).

This energy has a debilitating effect on undead, causing them a penalty to their attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, saving throws, skill checks, and caster level bonus equal to one third of the Turning Damage Check, and . This penalty is halved with a successful Will Save (separate from a save against a Cure Spell if this ability is invoked alongside one) equal to 20 + the White Mage's Character Level + his Charisma. However, this penalty stacks with itself, and if the overall penalty exceeds the hit dice of the undead, the undead is instantly destroyed with no save.

Every time he invokes this ability, he must make a Fortitude Save equal to 20 + 5 times the number of times he has used this ability in a single day. Failure means he is stunned for 1d4 rounds after the ability, and further fatigued for 1 hour. Success means he is fatigued for 1 minute. The bonuses and penalties granted by this ability last for 24 hours. He may not use this ability on himself.

Rain of Nirvana (Su): At 9th Level, the White Mage may modify his Mass Cure Spells with Chain Spell, even though he would not normally be able to do so. This ability is as Light Manipulation, but treat the modified spell level for using Chain Spell as 6, rather than 3. Each target affected by the initial spell is healed the full amount of the spell, while each secondary target is healed half that amount. Each secondary target must also be within 30 feet of an appropriate primary target. Regardless, no target may be healed more than once.

Absolution (Su): At 10th level, through a difficult ritual all but lost to the ages, a White Mage may reverse death itself.

The White Mage must first secure part of the remains of a subject, and infuse it with enough positive energy such that it can be restored to its natural state. This process need not be completed in a single day, nor by the White Mage alone, though the White Mage must take heed of decomposition. A dead subject is counted at being at -10 hp, minus 10 for every day it remained dead. If the subject would require a Raise Dead, the White Mage must use enough spells to return it to at least -9 hit points or greater. If the subject would require a Resurrection, the White Mage must use enough spells to return it to its maximum normal hit points.

Finally, the White Mage must imbue the remains with life, be it from a Turn Attempt or his Positive Soul. He must succeed on a turning check equal to thrice the number of hit dice of the diseased. If he invokes Positive Soul, it becomes merely twice the hit dice. If the body has been properly prepared and the attempt is successful, then the ritual succeeds; the body is restored to appropriate condition, and the soul returns to its body. The being loses no constitution or experience as a result of being raised this way.

This ritual may not be used on those who have died of old age, who are unwilling, or who have no remains, even ash or dust, to use as a focus.

Heavenly Power (Su): The maximum power of a White Mage's positive energy has few rivals. At 10th level, whenever a White Mage casts a Cure Spell from his spell slots, the spell is automatically affected as though by the Twinned Spell feat. This ability works as, and stacks with, Angelic Force. Additionally, his Cure Spells now have a range of Medium, rather than Close. Finally, his Mass Cure Spells now have a range of Long, rather than Medium, and the distance between targets increases up to 90 feet. If he uses Rain of Nirvana, each secondary target may be within 60 feet of an appropriate primary target.

Ex White Mages: White Mages are forbidden from using the power of death, both out of purpose and practice; the darkness disrupts both his mind and body. A White Mage who utilize negative energy through spells or abilities, or who use necromancy with intent to cause undue suffering against the living loses all spellcasting and class features and may advance no father as a White Mage until he atones for his action.

[INoKnowNames]

I've actually decided to give this it's own thread. Asking for people to devote their attention to 2 incredibly large classes on one thread might be a bit much reading to go through, but putting each one on their own thread might be a bit more fair, to both the classes and the readers. It'll also make more sense when I design more classes based on using Negative Energy for Good, Positive Energy for Evil, and using Both for whatever the hell you want.

I'll link it here once I fix it up a bit more. The White Mage comes first, just because it was the first one posted.

[INoKnowNames]

Wow, that was way longer than I thought it would look.

In any case, I appreciate any suggestions given. Especially since this is my first homebrew ever, and since, for Reasons, I'd greatly benefit from 5 people checking these classes and approving them for play. Mostly on the mechanical end, if anything.

[qwertyu63]

First comment: Paragraphs are your friend. I have broken the longer class features into paragraphs; I advise you do the same.

Second comment: Having written this, I will say: my approval has not been gained.

Let's take this point by point:


Entry Requirements
Alignment: Any Good
Skills: Heal 8 Ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 6 Ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 6 Ranks, Spellcraft 6 Ranks
Feats: Skill Focus [Heal, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Religion), or Knowledge (The Planes)], Maximize Spell, Mastery of Day and Night.
Spellcasting: Must have a spell list with access to Cure Critical Wounds and Raise Dead.
Special: The character must never cast a necromancy spell designed to cripple, injure, or kill the living, and must never animate, create, or otherwise aid undead.

Oh, hell no. 4 skills, 3 feats and an extremely strict Special requirement (I personally hate special requirements at all, but that's a personal thing). Dial this back.

I also hate the constant connection D&D puts between positive energy and Good. But the game does it, so the alignment requirement is fine (I guess).


HD: D4

Level Bab Fortitude Reflex Will Special Spellcasting
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Angelic Combat, Gentle Breeze -
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Resplendent Techniques, Aura of Dawn +1 Spellcasting Level
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Turn Undead, Light Manipulation +1 Spellcasting Level
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Benediction, Divine Intervention +1 Spellcasting Level
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Angelic Force +1 Spellcasting Level
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Exalted Healing +1 Spellcasting Level
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Salvation +1 Spellcasting Level
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Illuminated Aurora +1 Spellcasting Level
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Positive Soul +1 Spellcasting Level
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Absolution, Heavenly Power +1 Spellcasting Level

d4 HD, 1/2 BAB, Good Will, Poor Fort and Ref. Solid.


Class Skills
The White Mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Decent skill list. I'd bump the points per level up to 4+Int, but that's because I never use 2+Int. Your call.


Class Features: All of the following are class features of the White Mage prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: White Mages gain no weapon or armor proficiencies.

Spellcasting (Su): At each level except first, a White Mage gains new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast the required spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a White Mage, the player must decide which class to assign each level of White Mage for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.

9/10 Spellcasting. Again, solid.


Angelic Combat (Ex): Due to extensive knowledge over the body, White Mages may engage in combat against the living without resorting to bloodshed. A White Mage may inflict non-lethal damage on a living target without suffering any penalty to attack rolls, no matter what weapon he may use.

Additionally, he may use the Coup de Grace action to incapacitate, rather than slay a target. By choosing to take this option, a White Mage may set the defender's nonlethal damage to twice the defender's maximum hitpoints. This damage is healed normally. Finally, a White Mage may modify any spell they cast that deals hitpoint damage to instead deal nonlethal damage. This decision is made during casting, and affects all targets the same way.

Going for a pacifist? It works.


Gentle Breeze (Su): A White Mage can manipulate the positive energy of the world to cast his Cure Spells as a ray with a range of Close, rather than at Touch.

Healing from a distance. Mandatory for a healing class.


Resplendent Techniques (Su): The extensive knowledge of the White Mage is able to be used directly in the application of his signature spells. At second level, a White Mage may augment his Cure Spells by the power of his skills. He may apply half of his Heal modifier to the effective caster level when casting a Cure Spell, and may raise that caster level by an amount equal to half his Knowledge (Religion) modifier. He may also increase the Difficulty Check of any Saving Throw to resist his Cure Spells by half his Knowledge (The Planes) modifier, and any check to penetrate a target's spell resistance by half his Spellcraft modifier.

Useful, but not enough. Boosting CL doesn't do enough on healing spells (due to the maximum CL on the spells).


Aura of Dawn (Su): The benevolent nature of the White Mage can be felt within the tranquility of the air itself. At 2nd level, a White Mage is forever affected by a Sanctuary effect, as the spell except as noted. The difficulty check to resist it is 10 + the White Mage's class level + his Charisma Modifier. Should he make an action that would break the effect, it returns after 2d4 rounds, assuming he does not continue to take actions that would break the effect. If an enemy fails the saving throw to attack the White Mage, they are unable to do so for a number of minutes equal to the White Mage's class level.

Due to the nature of the White Mage as their antithesis, Undead that are vulnerable to positive energy gain a bonus to their Will Save equal to twice the White Mage's character level, and are unable to attack for only a number of rounds equal to the White Mage's class level. As an added benefit, White Mages are immune to the effects of a Major Positive-Dominant Plane.

A built-in Sanctuary effect. I'm not a huge fan of this effect, but it works.


Turn Undead (Su): White Mages may use their spiritual energy to repel the undead. At 3rd Level, the White Mage gains the ability to Turn Undead just as a cleric of his class level. If a White Mage has this ability from another class, at 3rd level his levels stack to determine his effective turning-level. If a White Mage somehow had the ability to rebuke undead, he loses that ability.

Turn Undead. Alright.


Light Manipulation (Su): As they gain the ability to repulse undead, White Mages also acquire the talent to manipulate the positive energy within themselves to augment their spellcasting. At 3rd level, by spending a Turn Undead attempt, a White Mage may attempt to enhance his Cure Spells with Enlarge Spell, Chain Spell, Quicken Spell, Still Spell, or Silent Spell, without increasing the spell level or casting time, even if he does not possess the metamagic feat in question.

However, he must succeed on a Turning Check equal to triple the adjusted spell level of the spell combined with the metamagic. Should he fail the check, both the spell and the Turn Undead attempt are expended, as are the actions such spells would have used.

For example, a Cleric 5 / White Mage 3 may cast a Chained Cure Moderate Wounds by succeeding on a DC 15 Turning Check, and then may cast a Quickened Enlarged Cure Critical Wounds by succeeding on a DC 27 Turning Check. If he rolls a 14 and 28 respectively, his standard action is wasted, and both the spell and turning check are expended. However, his swift action still occurs as normal, allowing him to quickly heal a target at a far distance.

This is the most powerful class feature in this class so far. Free metamagic based on turn undead. Might want to limit it to one free feat per spell.


Benediction (Su): The purity of the light produced by a White Mage is above that other priests of a similar strength. At 4th level, anyone he heals gains a few additional benefits. Anyone who is healed by a Cure Spell gains a bonus on all saving throws equal to the spell level for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier.

Additionally, during that time the recipient of this blessing may expend it to immediately reroll a saving throw with a bonus equal to the White Mage's class level. The recipient may also use this additional option to attempt to recover from a condition currently affecting them, such as being poisoned or a negative level.

For example, an ally healed by a 4th level White Mage's Cure Light Wounds after being scratched by a Wight may apply this benefit to immediately attempt to throw off the negative level with a +4 bonus, or maintain the +1 bonus to all saves for a limited time.

Big saving throw bonuses. The expending bonus might be too big.


Divine Intervention (Su): Those who remain in battle continuously sharpen their reflexes, and White Mages are swift to respond to the maladies of others. At 4th level, a White Mage may spend a Turn Undead attempt to cast a Cure Spell as an immediate action, even during the middle of an enemy's attack. This ability is as Light Manipulation, but treat the modified spell level for using it as 6. This ability may only be used once per round.

This works. That said, templating aid here (I've written this ability many times): "if cast immediately after the target takes damage, the healing effectively prevents the damage."


Angelic Force (Su): The power surging within the White Mage is comparable to that of an angel. At 5th level, whenever a White Mage casts a Cure Spell from his spell slots, the spell is automatically affected as though by the Empower Spell feat. This does not use up a higher level slot or increased casting time. This ability stacks with Mastery of Day and Night.

This is a useful boost. No real comment here.


Exalted Healing (Su): A White Mage reaches a new threshold in his skills with positive energy, utilizing excess healing magic to protect his charges. At 6th level, when a Cure Spell heals a target up to his maximum hitpoints, the excess amount healed becomes temporary hitpoints. Any target may store a number of temporary hitpoints equal to three times the target's hitdice. This healing lasts for a number of minutes equal to the class level of the White Mage before harmlessly dissipating, and is depleted first whenever its recipient takes damage.

Very important ability. This should be earlier in the class.


Salvation (Su): Through a modification of the requisite ritual, a White Mage may reduce the strain and toil needed to bring the dead back to life. At 7th level, when casting Raise Dead, Resurrection, or True Resurrection, a White Mage may modify the spell in several ways by spending a turn undead attempt.

First, by succeeding on a turning check equal to twice the hitdice of the target, he may reduce the casting time of the spell from whatever it may have been to one full round.

In addition, regardless of the previous result, he may still make a Turning Damage Roll, and subtract the amount of diamonds needed by the result of the roll times 500 gp. If this number is greater than the amount required of the spell, then the spell requires no material component.

Lastly, by using his own life force, the White Mage may prevent the target from losing a hitdice or constitution, and in the process gain a temporary negative level; this negative level may never be permanent, and disappears after a number of days equal to the hitdice of the target minus his white mage level (minimum 1).

Alright. Buff to raising dead. Cool


Illuminated Aurora (Su): The aura around a White Mage becomes even more splendid, gaining a holy quality. At 8th level, a White Mage is forever surrounded by an effect similar to an alter-less Consecrate spell. Allies within this aura share the White Mage's immunity to the effects of a Major Positive-Dominant environment.

Additionally, the power of this aura can be increased. For a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier, the White Mage may apply the benefits of a Hallow spell instead, though without the option to add a spell to the area. This may be done a number of times a day equal to half his class level. He does not need to provide the material component for either state of his aura.

Cool.


Positive Soul (Su): It is more difficult to create than destroy; yet the more arduous path may also be the more beneficial. At 9th level, the White Mage may imbue part of his life force within another, granting them Positive Levels at the cost of his own life energy.

Each Positive Level granted reduces the White Mage's maximum hitpoints by 5. Positive Levels grant the recipient a +1 untyped bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, skill checks, saving throws, and caster level bonuses, and one bonus temporary hitdice equal to their largest hitdice per positive level.

These hitpoints are lost after other sources of temporary hitpoints, but before actual hitpoints. These bonuses, and the sacrifice made of the White Mage, all last until the White Mage rests for spells, at which point the temporary hitpoints (if not expended before hand) and the bonuses vanish automatically, and the White Mage's maximum hitpoints return to normal, though he is not automatically healed of the lost hipoints.

A White Mage may grant a single positive level via touch as a Standard Action, or as a Free Action when casting a Cure Spell on a target. He may also grant as many levels as he wishes as a Full Round Action, though only if the target is willing. The White Mage uses his own life energy to grant Positive Levels, and thus may not benefit from them himself. Multiple Positive Levels stack, though a recipient may only contain a number of positive levels equal to its Consitution Modifier.

Positive Levels affect Undead the way Negative Levels affect the living; the Undead may may a Fortitude save equal to 10+the White Mage's Class Level + the White Mage's Charisma Modifier to resist it if made the victim of a Cure Spell, and must repeat the save after 24 hours or permanently lose a level (or hitdice) per each Positive Level they suffer from.

New most powerful feature. Broken as a core only druid.

This is way too good. You are giving way too much for way too little. I love the idea of positive levels to death (I've tangled with it several times), but they are very good; you need to charge a lot for them.

Hit this with the nerf bat. Very hard.


Absolution (Su): A White Mage of this skill may snatch the recently deceased directly and immediately from the jaws of death. At tenth level, through a special ritual, the White Mage may bring one who has recently died.

First, the body must be infused with enough positive energy that it can be restored to its normal state. If enough of the deceased was left behind such that he would be susceptible to Raise Dead, the White Mage must use enough cure spells or otherwise repair the body so that, if the deceased was still alive, it would have positive hitpoints (treat those who died due to a death effect as being at negative ten hitpoints per level of the effect that killed them).

If the body could only have been restored by Resurrection, what little remains must be infused with enough positive energy so that, if the deceased was still alive, it would be at its maximum normal hitpoints. (Unlike True Resurrection, at least part of the deceased must exist, even as ash, to use as the focus of this ritual.)

After attempting to ready the body, the White Mage must then expend a turn attempt as a full round action, trying to succeed on a turning check equal to the hitdice of the deceased plus the number of rounds the deceased has been dead. If the body is ready and the turning check is successful, the ritual is successful: the body is restored to appropriate condition, and the soul returns to its body. The character loses no constitution or experience as a result of being raised in this way.

A raise dead type effect that burns spell slots instead of money. This works.


Heavenly Power (Su): The maximum power of a White Mage's positive energy has few rivals. At 10th level, whenever a White Mage casts a Cure Spell from his spell slots, the spell is automatically affected as though by the Twinned Spell feat. This does not use up a higher level slot or increased casting time. This ability stacks with Angelic Force.

Very nice. I approve.


Ex White Mages: White Mages are forbidden from using the power of death, both out of purpose and practice; the darkness disrupts both his mind and body. A White Mage who utilize negative energy through spells or abilities, or who use necromancy with intent to cause undo suffering against the living loses all spellcasting and class features and may advance no father as a White Mage until he atones for his action.

And we are back to this. This clause's presence on the healer is one of the major reasons I set off to make my own healer. However, if you are maintaining a link between Good and Positive energy, then this works.

All in all, the buffs you have provided to cure spells work. However, other issues force me to withhold my stamp of approval.

I will also note that I have not read the Black Mage's class features. However, reading its requirement (which also needs dialed back) and ex-member sections leave me hating it on a fluff level.

[INoKnowNames]

Thanks for the feedback, qwerty. I'll try to act on some of it a little later. :smallsmile:


First comment: Paragraphs are your friend. I have broken the longer class features into paragraphs; I advise you do the same.

Yeah, I definitely need to work on the sorting and format, as well as the editing a bit. Maybe tonight, I'll be able to do so.


Oh, hell no. 4 skills, 3 feats and an extremely strict Special requirement (I personally hate special requirements at all, but that's a personal thing). Dial this back.

Two of the feats are absolutely mandatory, given that they are directly built upon through the class. (I might actually rename some of the ability to reflect this, actually). If enough people call out the Skill Focus, then I'll more reasonably consider dropping it, but it functions as a free 1 level heighten spell, spell penetration, or just a direct bonus to healing, depending on which version of it you take, and because the skill focus is variable, it helps enable it functions well with other classes that also want skill focus or provide it, so I actually didn't think it was that bad.

As for the skills, given that they get a solid bonus out of them, I figure it's better than most prestige classes where the skills are somewhat related but not particularly relevant.


Decent skill list. I'd bump the points per level up to 4+Int, but that's because I never use 2+Int. Your call.

I figure putting an emphasis on casters needing a little extra upstairs would be nice, given that the earliest entry possible would require an Int of 14 (or 12+Human, or 10+Human+Nymph's Kiss). Though if more people comment on it, I don't mind changing it back; it was 4+Int in some of the early stages of the planning.


Useful, but not enough. Boosting CL doesn't do enough on healing spells (due to the maximum CL on the spells).

I must not have made it clear that it's the maximum caster level that Knowledge-(Religion) modifies, allowing you to use your full caster level (along with the bonus provided by the Heal Skill) for your spells. I will need to fix this.


This is the most powerful class feature in this class so far. Free metamagic based on turn undead. Might want to limit it to one free feat per spell.

Well, it is limited to Cure Spells (which doesn't even include Heal), in addition to having a -VERY- steep cost if you happen to fail the check (such as if the dice-roller is being a jerk or you just happen to do poorly). Were it for all spells, or a skill check (which is much easier to influence and upgrade), then I'd absolutely agree, since it would effectively be a rival to Divine Metamagic, but between the much more limited focus of use and the price to pay if you screw up, I think it's balanced.


Big saving throw bonuses. The expending bonus might be too big.

You think so? One wouldn't gain access to the highest level of that bonus until 15th level, if I recall right. I can't think of how to reduce it without the option of just carrying around the lower spell level to be the more effective option overtime... though then again, Mass Cures are also a thing... maybe I hadn't thought enough about this one...


This works. That said, templating aid here (I've written this ability many times): "if cast immediately after the target takes damage, the healing effectively prevents the damage."

If you don't mind me asking, why is this needed to be added? I don't see the trouble in doing so, but I'm just not sure what the alternative seems to be; it seems like this would be more or less unspoken...


Very important ability. This should be earlier in the class.

Can't give away too many of the good abilities too early. I wanted the entire class to seem attractive, at least mechanically, from start until finish. :smalltongue:


New most powerful feature. Broken as a core only druid.

This is way too good. You are giving way too much for way too little. I love the idea of positive levels to death (I've tangled with it several times), but they are very good; you need to charge a lot for them.

Hit this with the nerf bat. Very hard.

Well, let's do a little math. A 10th Level Cleric / 10th Level White Mage with average health per level would have, what, 64 HP, give or take? Probably higher with Consitution boosting items, though they'll also need decent Int, Wisdom, and Charisma to maintain the class well. Losing 5 hitpoints per Positive Level makes it rather difficult to spam or anything. Without a constitution boosting item, you'd only be able to give out 12 of such levels, be it in powering up allies or crippling an undead, before your stuck at just 1 hitpoint a day, which is a terrifying aspect at high levels.

If I hadn't made it clear I'll go back and do so; this isn't damage. The HP is part of your Maximum Hitpoints, which means for each bit you make someone else stronger, you weaken yourself a bit as well; a very risky prospect when enemies and spells do lots of damage by the time you get the ability.

I'm not closed to reconsidering the nerfs I had in mind for it: hitpoints a level and 24 hours duration, to make it match Negative Levels better and to ensure that the granting of Positive Levels more significant and lastly. And at least it's not as bad as the MM3 version, which only costs 5 damage and grants genuine hitdice for all the shenanigans. But I didn't think my version was that broken, especially considering it requires a save on enemies that most relevant foes should be able to make, and that is wasted on lesser creatures. And while powering up allies is the main focus of this feature, it also makes the target on your back even more accessible.


All in all, the buffs you have provided to cure spells work. However, other issues force me to withhold my stamp of approval.

I will also note that I have not read the Black Mage's class features. However, reading its ex-member sections leave me hating it on a fluff level.

Fluff can be changed if a Dm, player, or group prefers. I'm mostly looking to make sure the class is playable, and for my purposes I'm more concerned about the mechanics than I am the fluff. I was just to ensure I provide at least a level of fluff to go with them.

That said, I have been interested in designing the opposites of each of these classes; a Good aligned user of Negative Energy and Darkness, and an Evil aligned manipulator of Light and Positive Energy... as well as a sort of Yin-Yang bomb sort of being that masters both; maybe a 5th level add on to either of the before mentioned classes.

I personally have no problem acknowledging that Positive Energy and Negative Energy have no more inherent personality or alignment than Fire or Water. Merely that these classes do. The only focus here is making Healing worth it (the White Mage) and using the inverse to create a fairly decent Necromancer (the Black Mage). I figure between making healing more accessible, less wasteful, more powerful and more useful, I hope I did a decent job at the former. And as for the latter, I hope that making Inflict capable of functioning as Blasting, along with adding a few debuff abilities and make summoning undead easier, means that I did fairly well there, too.

[qwertyu63]

Two of the feats are absolutely mandatory, given that they are directly built upon through the class. (I might actually rename some of the ability to reflect this, actually). If enough people call out the Skill Focus, then I'll more reasonably consider dropping it, but it functions as a free 1 level heighten spell, spell penetration, or just a direct bonus to healing, depending on which version of it you take, and because the skill focus is variable, it helps enable it functions well with other classes that also want skill focus or provide it, so I actually didn't think it was that bad.

As for the skills, given that they get a solid bonus out of them, I figure it's better than most prestige classes where the skills are somewhat related but not particularly relevant.

Requiring more than *1* feat or 2 skills is too much in my opinion. If you are building on several feats, consider giving one away for free in the class. If you are building on several skills, the player will invest in it as needed without prompting.


I figure putting an emphasis on casters needing a little extra upstairs would be nice, given that the earliest entry possible would require an Int of 14 (or 12+Human, or 10+Human+Nymph's Kiss). Though if more people comment on it, I don't mind changing it back; it was 4+Int in some of the early stages of the planning.

I only say anything because I think no class should EVER have 2+Int. WotC made a bad call there.


I must not have made it clear that it's the maximum caster level that Knowledge-(Religion) modifies, allowing you to use your full caster level (along with the bonus provided by the Heal Skill) for your spells. I will need to fix this.

Ah, that works better.


Well, it is limited to Cure Spells (which doesn't even include Heal), in addition to having a -VERY- steep cost if you happen to fail the check (such as if the dice-roller is being a jerk or you just happen to do poorly). Were it for all spells, or a skill check (which is much easier to influence and upgrade), then I'd absolutely agree, since it would effectively be a rival to Divine Metamagic, but between the much more limited focus of use and the price to pay if you screw up, I think it's balanced.

For this class, it is a rival for Divine Metamagic. It is less reliable, but that steps it down from "broken" to "powerful". The feature works; I'm just always wary regarding free metamagic.


You think so? One wouldn't gain access to the highest level of that bonus until 15th level, if I recall right. I can't think of how to reduce it without the option of just carrying around the lower spell level to be the more effective option overtime... though then again, Mass Cures are also a thing... maybe I hadn't thought enough about this one...

Good rule of thumb: If you are giving more than a +5 or so bonus to any saving throw, consider the balance carefully. It amounts to a "get of of saving throw free" card.


If you don't mind me asking, why is this needed to be added? I don't see the trouble in doing so, but I'm just not sure what the alternative seems to be; it seems like this would be more or less unspoken...

That is just the templating the game always uses when healing out of turn. I've never seen an offical source not include something like that.


Can't give away too many of the good abilities too early. I wanted the entire class to seem attractive, at least mechanically, from start until finish. :smalltongue:

As in, this feature enables healers to be proactive which is exactly what they need to work in combat. I'd consider moving this to level 2 or even 1. Without this, healers are left trying to react to damage... in a world of rocket tag.


Well, let's do a little math. A 10th Level Cleric / 10th Level White Mage with average health per level would have, what, 64 HP, give or take? Probably higher with Consitution boosting items, though they'll also need decent Int, Wisdom, and Charisma to maintain the class well. Losing 5 hitpoints per Positive Level makes it rather difficult to spam or anything. Without a constitution boosting item, you'd only be able to give out 12 of such levels, be it in powering up allies or crippling an undead, before your stuck at just 1 hitpoint a day, which is a terrifying aspect at high levels.

If I hadn't made it clear I'll go back and do so; this isn't damage. The HP is part of your Maximum Hitpoints, which means for each bit you make someone else stronger, you weaken yourself a bit as well; a very risky prospect when enemies and spells do lots of damage by the time you get the ability.

I'm not closed to reconsidering the nerfs I had in mind for it: hitpoints a level and 24 hours duration, to make it match Negative Levels better and to ensure that the granting of Positive Levels more significant and lastly. And at least it's not as bad as the MM3 version, which only costs 5 damage and grants genuine hitdice for all the shenanigans. But I didn't think my version was that broken, especially considering it requires a save on enemies that most relevant foes should be able to make, and that is wasted on lesser creatures. And while powering up allies is the main focus of this feature, it also makes the target on your back even more accessible.

Charging hit points isn't enough no matter how many you charge; positive levels are that good. I'd consider charging *negative levels* at a 1-to-1 ratio at least.


I personally have no problem acknowledging that Positive Energy and Negative Energy have no more inherent personality or alignment than Fire or Water. Merely that these classes do. The only focus here is making Healing worth it (the White Mage) and using the inverse to create a fairly decent Necromancer (the Black Mage). I figure between making healing more accessible, less wasteful, more powerful and more useful, I hope I did a decent job at the former. And as for the latter, I hope that making Inflict capable of functioning as Blasting, along with adding a few debuff abilities and make summoning undead easier, means that I did fairly well there, too.

On the healing front, you've done well. Other features in there have issues.

Regarding necromacy, I've no idea.

[asdflove]

I've already gone over both of them before you posted them, but I'll give them another once over.



Entry Requirements
Alignment: Any Good
Skills: Heal 8 Ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 6 Ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 6 Ranks, Spellcraft 6 Ranks
Feats: Skill Focus [Heal, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Religion), or Knowledge (The Planes)], Maximize Spell, Mastery of Day and Night.
Spellcasting: Must have a spell list with access to Cure Critical Wounds and Raise Dead.
Special: The character must never cast a necromancy spell designed to cripple, injure, or kill the living, and must never animate, create, or otherwise produce undead.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: 3 feats is a bit too much of a tax, especially when one of those is skill focus. I know that the class uses those skills but NEVER is skill focus worth the feat slot.
It's not a big deal, and certainly won't stop me from approving the class, but it's still a bit much.



Class Skills
The White Mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
You know, when I said that most spellcasters only have 2 skill points, that wasn't telling you to take it from 4 to 2. :smalltongue:



Spellcasting (Su): At each level except first, a White Mage gains new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast the required spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a White Mage, the player must decide which class to assign each level of White Mage for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.
Well, nothing to say on this because you already fixed what I had to say on this. :smalltongue:



Resplendent Techniques (Su): The incredible skill of the White Mage is able to be used directly in the application of his signature spells. At 2nd level, a White Mage may add half his Heal modifier to the caster level of his Cure Spells, and may raise the maximum caster level by half his Knowledge (Religion) modifier. He may also add half his Knowledge (The Planes) modifier to the Difficulty Checks of his Cure Spells, and half his Spellcraft modifier to attempts to pierce Spell Resistance.
An excellent feature, but I must wonder why you felt the need to split this with two separate skills?



Light Manipulation (Su): As they gain the ability to fight undead, White Mages also acquire the talent to manipulate the positive energy within themselves to augment their spellcasting. At 3rd level, by spending a Turn Undead attempt, a White Mage may attempt to enhance his Cure Spells with Enlarge Spell, Chain Spell, Quicken Spell, Still Spell, or Silent Spell, without increasing the spell level or casting time, even if he does not possess the metamagic feat in question. However, he must succeed on a Turning Check equal to triple the adjusted spell level of the spell combined with the metamagic. Should he fail the check, both the spell and the Turn Undead attempt are expended, as are the actions such spells would have used.

For example, a Cleric 5 / White Mage 3 may cast a Chained Cure Moderate Wounds by succeeding on a DC 15 Turning Check, and then may cast a Quickened Enlarged Cure Critical Wounds by succeeding on a DC 27 Turning Check. If he rolls a 14 and 28 respectively, his standard action is wasted, and both the spell and turning check are expended. However, his swift action still occurs as normal, allowing him to quickly heal a target at a far distance.

I know you didn't see the issue before, but I am really glad you fixed the wording on this. :smallsmile:



Exalted Healing (Su): A White Mage reaches a new threshold in his skills with positive energy, utilizing excess healing magic to protect his charges. At 6th level, when a Cure Spell heals a target up to his maximum hitpoints, the excess amount healed becomes temporary hitpoints. Any target may store a number of temporary hitpoints equal to three times the target's hitdice. This healing lasts for a number of minutes equal to the class level of the White Mage before harmlessly dissipating, and is depleted first whenever its recipient takes damage.
I'm actually with qwerty on this one. It should probably be a little earlier in the class (though it's fine where it is).



Positive Soul (Su): It is more difficult to create than destroy; yet the more arduous path may also be the more beneficial. At 9th level, the White Mage may imbue part of his life force within another, granting them Positive Levels at the cost of his own life energy. Each Positive Level granted reduces the White Mage's maximum hitpoints by 5. This cost, as well as the benefits of Positive Levels, lasts for 24 hours, at which point the White Mage's maximum hitpoints returns to normal (but not his current hitpoints), and the bonuses are lost.

Positive Levels grant the recipient a +1 untyped bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, skill checks, saving throws, and caster level bonuses, and temporary hitpoints equal to their largest hitdice per positive level. These hitpoints are lost after other sources of temporary hitpoints, but before actual hitpoints. A White Mage may grant a single positive level via touch as a Standard Action, or as a Free Action when casting a Cure Spell on a target. He may also grant as many levels as he wishes as a Full Round Action, though only if the target is willing. The White Mage may not grant himself positive levels. Multiple Positive Levels stack, though a living recipient may only contain a number of positive levels equal to its Constitution Modifier.

Positive Levels affect Undead the way Negative Levels affect the living; the Undead may may a Fortitude save equal to 10+the White Mage's Class Level + the White Mage's Charisma Modifier to rest it if made the victim of a Cure Spell, and must repeat the save after 24 hours or permanently lose a level (or hitdice) per each Positive Level they suffer from.
Given qwerty's problem with this I should probably give this a thorough reread...

It seems fine to me, but maybe make it a sacred bonus instead of untyped so it doesn't stack? Just to weaken it a little?



Heavenly Power (Su): The maximum power of a White Mage's positive energy has few rivals. At 10th level, whenever a White Mage casts a Cure Spell from his spell slots, the spell is automatically affected as though by the Twinned Spell feat. This does not use up a higher level slot or increased casting time. This ability stacks with Angelic Force. Additionally, the White Mage's Cure Spells now have a range of Long.
Aaand it finishes with a nice capstone.


The White Mage has my stamp of approval.


On mirrored things, assume my previous comments apply.



Corruption (Su): A Black Mage has intimate control over the energy used to turn remains into monsters, for that same energy supplies the fuel to her signature spells as well. A Black Mage can use this energy to accomplish both ends at once. A target slain by the inflict spell of a 4th level Black Mage must succeed on an additional saving throw equal to that of the Inflict Spell that killed it, or automatically begins rising? from the dead, as per the spell animate dead. The process takes up to one hour and one minute, minus six minutes per Black Mage level.
Stiiill seems powerful, but I don't know. >.<



Profane Damage: As her powers continue to magnify, her dark magic becomes even more deadly to the living. At 6th level, when someone is damaged by the Inflict Spell of a Black Mage, the victim must save again or suffer additional Profane Damage equal to the Black Mage's class level. This damage can not be healed over time, through rest, fast healing, regeneration, or the Heal skill, unless within the boundaries of a Hallowed or Consecrated area. This damage is also the last to be healed under any circumstance.
Still mechanically sound, but I stiiiill don't like it.



Desecration: A Black Mage's link to undeath continues to rise, as she begins capable of pouring her darkness into the fallen, producing even more foul creatures. When someone is in the process of being turned into an Undead due to the Corruption ability of a 7th level Black Mage, she may spend a Rebuke Undead attempt to transform them into a more powerful undead. She must succeed on a Rebuking Check equal to twice the hitdice of the victim. If she succeeds, she may cause the creature to turn into a more powerful undead as Create Undead, using half the result of her Rebuking Damage in place of her caster level, and without material component, though the deceased must have hitdice at least equal to that of the Undead to be created.
This (IIRC) is much better than before.

Corruption may still be a bit powerful, but the class seems fine to me.


The Black Mage has my stamp of approval.

[Snowbluff]

Positive Soul (Su): It is more difficult to create than destroy; yet the more arduous path may also be the more beneficial. At 9th level, the White Mage may imbue part of his life force within another, granting them Positive Levels at the cost of his own life energy. Each Positive Level granted reduces the White Mage's maximum hitpoints by 5. This cost, as well as the benefits of Positive Levels, lasts for 24 hours, at which point the White Mage's maximum hitpoints returns to normal (but not his current hitpoints), and the bonuses are lost.

Positive Levels grant the recipient a +1 untyped bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, skill checks, saving throws, and caster level bonuses, and temporary hitpoints equal to their largest hitdice per positive level. These hitpoints are lost after other sources of temporary hitpoints, but before actual hitpoints. A White Mage may grant a single positive level via touch as a Standard Action, or as a Free Action when casting a Cure Spell on a target. He may also grant as many levels as he wishes as a Full Round Action, though only if the target is willing. The White Mage may not grant himself positive levels. Multiple Positive Levels stack, though a living recipient may only contain a number of positive levels equal to its Constitution Modifier.

Positive Levels affect Undead the way Negative Levels affect the living; the Undead may may a Fortitude save equal to 10+the White Mage's Class Level + the White Mage's Charisma Modifier to rest it if made the victim of a Cure Spell, and must repeat the save after 24 hours or permanently lose a level (or hitdice) per each Positive Level they suffer from.


There should probably be a stronger limitation on the number the White mage can have out at once. Like, +6 on a friend is a pretty good buff.

Other than that, I approve.

[Vixsor Lumin]

The only thing that I can think of is there is no defenition of "recently died" in the absolution class ability for the white mage, and I think the black mage should get some boost to amount of hit die of undead controlled, similar to the dread necro. Or you could possibly cause the to be controlled without limit, but the undead crumble to ash after 1 min/class level.

[noob]

Positive soul makes you loose only max hp and grants tons of different boosts on your target in fact two white mages spending nearly all their max life to boost each other would be just ridiculous before you start maxing the constitution(+6 belt and a shape of a monster with high con and then increase your size or just use mind jar on the most filled of hp thing you know(like a Tarrasque)).

[INoKnowNames]

So, life happened, and I wasn't able to get this done nearly as soon as I'd liked.

But I've been tinkering with it, and taking into account most everything mentioned here.

And now I shamelessly bump this because we've gone from version 4.4 to version 6.2 in terms of upgrades, changes, and fixes. I almost want a new picture now.

But yeah, please comment, go yay, go boo, etc. Would really help!

[Nyt]

In the last paragraph; "Ex-White Mages", you wrote "cause undo suffering", when it should be "undue suffering". So far, that's the only thing I've noticed.

It looks cool, flavorful, and not unbalanced as far as I can tell.

[qwertyu63]

Well, I've been told the class has been updated. Let's see.


(Everything before 'Class Features')
My opinions are the same as before: The requirements are super BS and need scaled back a ton (the special requirement needs to be cut with extreme prejudice), the chassis is solid, the skill list is fine, skills points should be 4+Int.


Angelic Combat (Ex): Due to extensive knowledge over the living, White Mages may engage in combat without resorting to bloodshed. A White Mage may inflict non-lethal damage using any weapon without suffering a penalty to attack rolls.

He may also use the Coup de Grace action to incapacitate rather than slay, setting the target's nonlethal damage to 1.5 times its maximum hit points. Finally, he may modify any spell he casts that deal hit point damage to instead deal nonlethal damage; this decision is made during casting and affects all targets the same way.

Still just as good, with cleaner wording. *****/5


Gentle Breeze (Su): A White Mage can manipulate the positive energy of the world to cast his Cure Spells as a ray with a range of 5 ft. per Class Level, rather than at Touch. He must succeed on a ranged touch attack to affect an unwilling target; such targets may still make Will Saves to take half damage.

As above, so below. *****/5


Flickering Embers (Ex): If a White Mage has the ability to Turn Undead by way of another class, his White Mage Levels stack with those class levels. He does not gain the ability if he did not already have it, however. If he could somehow Rebuke Undead, he loses that ability.

That last sentence needs to die in the fires of hell. Other than that, just fine.


Aura of Dawn (Su): At 2nd level, a White Mage is forever affected by a Sanctuary effect, as the spell except as noted. The Difficulty Check to resist it is 10 + the White Mage's class level + his Charisma Modifier. Should he make an action that would break it, it returns after 2d4 rounds, after the last action that would have broken it has ceased. The White Mage may perform nonlethal attacks without breaking this aura.

If an enemy fails its saving throw, they are unable to attack the White Mage for a number of rounds equal to the White Mage's character level. Undead that are vulnerable to positive energy gain a bonus to their Will Save equal to the White Mage's character level, and are unable to attack for 1 round. If an enemy succeeds on it's saving throw, they are immune to this aura for 24 hours.

As an added benefit, White Mages are immune to the effects of a Major Positive-Dominant Plane; merely gaining fast healing.

I almost let this one go as the "not-really-needed-can't-shoot-the-healer" effect until I noticed the line I have underlined. That one line takes it from fine to "veto-the-class-for-this-alone". Cut the line and it's fine.


Exalted Healing (Su): At 2th level, when a Cure Spell heals a target up to his maximum hit points, the excess amount healed becomes temporary hit points. Any target may store a number of temporary hit points equal to three times the target's hit dice. This healing lasts for a number of minutes equal to the class level of the White Mage before harmlessly dissipating, and is depleted first whenever its recipient takes damage.

I see my advice to place this earlier was heard. Premptive healing is important for healing focused classes. *****/5


Resplendent Techniques (Su): At 3nd level, the skill of the White Mage is able to be used directly in the application of his signature spells. He may add half his Heal Skill modifier to the damage healed by his Cure Spells, and may raise the Caster Level cap of those spells by half his Knowledge (Religion) Skill modifier (allowing him to apply more of his regular caster level to lower level spells).

He may also add half his Knowledge (The Planes) Skill modifier to the Difficulty Checks of his Cure Spells, and half his Spellcraft Skill Modifier to attempts to pierce Spell Resistance.

Now you've got it. By raising the CL caps on those spells, adding your caster level is good enough. *****/5


Benediction (Su): At 4th Level, a being healed by a White Mage's Cure Spell gains a bonus on all saving throws equal to half the base spell level of the spell for a number of rounds equal to the White Mage's Charisma Modifier.
Additionally, for half that time, the healed may choose to expend this blessing as a free action to immediately reroll a saving throw, even if they have already failed it, so long as the being is still alive. The recipient may use this option to attempt to recover from a condition currently affecting them, so long as that condition has a related saving throw. A White May may not benefit from this ability if he heals himself.

As before, the bonuses are a bit big, but they work. The removal of the massive expend bonus knocked this one into line. *****/5

Side note: There is a typo. Check the underlined text closely.


Angelic Force (Su): At 5th level, whenever a White Mage casts a Cure Spell from his spell slots, the spell is automatically affected as though by the Empower Spell feat. This does not use up a higher level slot or increased casting time. This ability stacks with Mastery of Day and Night. Class features that add to the numerical amount healed by Cure Spells, such as Resplendent Techniques, are also affected by this ability.

Additionally, the White Mage now treats any immunity to Positive Energy as Spell Resistance equal to double the hit dice of the creature possessing it, regardless of source.

Finally, the range of the range of any Cure Spell the White Mage casts becomes Close, and the range of any Mass Cure Spell he casts becomes Medium, rather than Close. The distance between any individual target of his Mass Cure Spells increases to 60 ft.

This is three perfectly good class features. Why, by Thor's might, are they listed as one class feature? They have nothing to do with each other. *****/5


Rekindled Flames (Ex): At 5th level, if the White Mage could not Turn Undead, he gains that ability, based on his White Mage class level. If he already could Turn Undead, he gains Extra Turning as a bonus feat.

Psst... You're allowed to just give them the class feature Turn Undead.


Light Manipulation (Su): At 6rd level, by spending a Turn Undead attempt, a White Mage may attempt to enhance his Cure Spells with Enlarge Spell, Chain Spell, Quicken Spell, Still Spell, or Silent Spell, without increasing the spell level or casting time, even if he does not possess the metamagic feat in question.

However, he must follow all other rules regarding the implementation of the spells, and he must succeed on a Turning Check equal to thrice the modified spell level. Should he fail the check, both the spell and the Turn Undead attempt are expended, as are the actions such spells would have used.

I'm not sure if you applied my advice of one free feat per spell. It looks like it could go either way based on the GM's reading of the text. If you did, *****/5.


Salvation (Su): At 7th level, when casting Raise Dead, Resurrection, or True Resurrection, a White Mage may modify the spell in several ways by spending a turn undead attempt. First, merely by invoking this magic, the White Mage may prevent the target from losing a hit dice or constitution points, and in the process gain a temporary negative level. This negative level may never be permanent, and disappears after a number of days equal to the hit dice of the target minus the white mage's class level (minimum 1).

Additionally, by succeeding on a Turning Check equal to twice the hit dice of the target, he may reduce the casting time of the spell from whatever it may have been to one full round. Finally, regardless of the previous result, he may still make a Turning Damage Roll, and reduce the amount of diamonds needed by the result of the roll times 500 gp. If this number is greater than the amount required of the spell, then the spell requires no material component, the White Mage's holy symbol sufficing as a focus.[quote]

Solid. I have changed one word just to make it sound better; I advise you do the same.

[quote]Illuminated Aurora (Su): At 8th level, a White Mage is forever surrounded by an effect similar to an altar-less Consecrate spell. Allies within this aura share the White Mage's immunity to the effects of a Major Positive-Dominant environment, merely gaining fast healing.

Additionally, the power of this aura can be increased. For a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier, the White Mage may gain the effect of a Hallow spell. He may not add a spell to the area, though all other benefits stack with those granted by his Consecrate aura. This may be done a number of times a day equal to half his character level. He does not need to provide the material component for either state of his aura.

Just as cool as last time.


Divine Intervention (Su): At 8th level, a White Mage may spend a Turn Undead attempt to cast a Cure Spell as an Immediate Action, even during the middle of an enemy's attack. This ability is as Light Manipulation, but treat the modified spell level for using it as 6. This ability may only be used once per round. If used to heal a target as it takes damage, this effectively prevents the damage.

This works. You departed slightly from my phrasing, but your phrasing works.


Positive Soul (Su): At 9th level, the White Mage's soul generates an additional amount of positive energy equal to 1 + his Charisma Modifier (minimum 1). He may use this energy to fuel his class features. If he uses this energy for Light Manipulation, he need only succeed on a Turning Check equal to twice the modified spell level. If he invokes it for Salvation, he need only succeed on a Turning Check equal to 1.5 times the hit dice of the target (rounded up), and he subtracts his Turning Damage times 750 gp from the cost of the spells. He may use this energy as a cost for Illuminated Aurora, if he is out of daily uses of that ability.

He may also use this energy to bolster his companions. As a standard action touch attack, or as a free action when affecting an ally with a Cure Spell (only if he is not using the energy for Light Manipulation), he may fill this ally with Positive Energy by making a Turning Damage Check. The ally gains a sacred bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, saving throws, skill checks, and caster level bonuses equal to one third the amount that the Turning Damage Check exceeds the target's hit dice, up to an amount equal to the target's Constitution Modifier (minimum 1).

This energy has a debilitating effect on undead, causing them a penalty to their attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, saving throws, skill checks, and caster level bonus equal to one third of the Turning Damage Check, and . This penalty is halved with a successful Will Save (separate from a save against a Cure Spell if this ability is invoked alongside one) equal to 20 + the White Mage's Character Level + his Charisma. However, this penalty stacks with itself, and if the overall penalty exceeds the hit dice of the undead, the undead is instantly destroyed with no save.

Every time he invokes this ability, he must make a Fortitude Save equal to 20 + 5 times the number of times he has used this ability in a single day. Failure means he is stunned for 1d4 rounds after the ability, and further fatigued for 1 hour. Success means he is fatigued for 1 minute. The bonuses and penalties granted by this ability last for 24 hours. He may not use this ability on himself.

Alright, last time I looked over this class, I called this "broken as a core only druid". Now... it's fine. The buffing function has been brought to a reasonable power level.


Rain of Nirvana (Su): At 9th Level, the White Mage may modify his Mass Cure Spells with Chain Spell, even though he would not normally be able to do so. This ability is as Light Manipulation, but treat the modified spell level for using Chain Spell as 6, rather than 3. Each target affected by the initial spell is healed the full amount of the spell, while each secondary target is healed half that amount. Each secondary target must also be within 30 feet of an appropriate primary target. Regardless, no target may be healed more than once.[quote]

Ok. Nothing much to say here, other than "Heal all the things!".

[quote]Absolution (Su): At 10th level, through a difficult ritual all but lost to the ages, a White Mage may reverse death itself.

The White Mage must first secure part of the remains of a subject, and infuse it with enough positive energy such that it can be restored to its natural state. This process need not be completed in a single day, nor by the White Mage alone, though the White Mage must take heed of decomposition. A dead subject is counted at being at -10 hp, minus 10 for every day it remained dead. If the subject would require a Raise Dead, the White Mage must use enough spells to return it to at least -9 hit points or greater. If the subject would require a Resurrection, the White Mage must use enough spells to return it to its maximum normal hit points.

Finally, the White Mage must imbue the remains with life, be it from a Turn Attempt or his Positive Soul. He must succeed on a turning check equal to thrice the number of hit dice of the diseased. If he invokes Positive Soul, it becomes merely twice the hit dice. If the body has been properly prepared and the attempt is successful, then the ritual succeeds; the body is restored to appropriate condition, and the soul returns to its body. The being loses no constitution or experience as a result of being raised this way.

This ritual may not be used on those who have died of old age, who are unwilling, or who have no remains, even ash or dust, to use as a focus.

As before, as now; this works.


Heavenly Power (Su): The maximum power of a White Mage's positive energy has few rivals. At 10th level, whenever a White Mage casts a Cure Spell from his spell slots, the spell is automatically affected as though by the Twinned Spell feat. This ability works as, and stacks with, Angelic Force.

Additionally, his Cure Spells now have a range of Medium, rather than Close. Finally, his Mass Cure Spells now have a range of Long, rather than Medium, and the distance between targets increases up to 90 feet. If he uses Rain of Nirvana, each secondary target may be within 60 feet of an appropriate primary target.[quote]

Alright. Bring out all your healing. It's a capstone; a little bit of crazy is good here.

[quote]Ex White Mages: White Mages are forbidden from using the power of death, both out of purpose and practice; the darkness disrupts both his mind and body. A White Mage who utilize negative energy through spells or abilities, or who use necromancy with intent to cause undue suffering against the living loses all spellcasting and class features and may advance no father as a White Mage until he atones for his action.

And we return to this once again... I still hate it with every fiber of my being and think it should die in a fire, but it's your fluff.

In the end, it comes down to this:

* The prereqs need cut heavily.
* Aura of Dawn needs fixing.
* Light Manipulation needs the limit noted, assuming you intend it.
** If you don't intend it, you really should.

Everything else is minor nitpicking or me not liking the fluff.

[noob]

"Ex White Mages: White Mages are forbidden from using the power of death, both out of purpose and practice; the darkness disrupts both his mind and body. A White Mage who utilize negative energy through spells or abilities, or who use necromancy with intent to cause undue suffering against the living loses all spellcasting and class features and may advance no father as a White Mage until he atones for his action."
Do being an undead makes you become immediately an Ex White Mage when you take the class?
You use the power of dead unwillingly but you did put "both out of purpose and practice" and if being an undead makes you loose immediately your class features you should put a restriction to be not undead when taking this class
Also the fast healing instead of the regular overflow healing while in a positive energy plane is an huge nerf to undead since undead simply can gain indefinitely HP while in the positive energy plane.(an effect harms undead only when it is said to do that and so since the positive energy plane is not said to harm undead it heals them and undead are not vulnerable to the energy overflow explosion)
and if you made that the positive energy plane damage undeads it suddenly makes an white mage undead (or an ally undead near a white mage)regenerate instead of taking damage.

[tsj]

I like the concepts of white and black Mages but dislike that it does not grant full caster levels and spells...
Specially when the HD is a D4...

Most of the abilities are solid and would also work as feats that could be taken by clerics

[noob]

Most of the abilities are solid and would also work as feats that could be taken by clerics
for example the over heal ability of this class is less good than the feat allowing to heal people to up to two times their max HP with healing spells.
but you get one ability per level.
Which is balanced back by the loss of one precious caster level.
If there was not this loss it would have approximately the power of an incatatrix.

[INoKnowNames]

In the last paragraph; "Ex-White Mages", you wrote "cause undo suffering", when it should be "undue suffering". So far, that's the only thing I've noticed.

It looks cool, flavorful, and not unbalanced as far as I can tell.

I still need to keep working on a few things brought to my attention, but I will try to run through this again with a good eye for mistakes like that. Grammar and Spell-check only go so far.

I've actually been noted that I might need to be concerned about the amount of additional healing is provided, and I can see why the idea of adding around 50 or so points of healing to a 0th level spell by 20th level (and through this class alone, let alone other features capable of being added) is probably something worth fixing. However, I'm not sure the best way to limit the amount of healing added on per spell level. It could be worth going back and making it so that the free Empower and Free Twin only affect the base healing of the spell itself, if only to avoid invalidating HP in that it becomes -too- difficult to kill someone under a White Mage's protection.


Do being an undead makes you become immediately an Ex White Mage when you take the class?

This is actually the exact kind of Fridge Logic I'm happy to hear. In my mind, I never expected the idea of a White Mage getting Durkula'd. I should put a prevision in there about that. I'm torn between preventing White Mages from even being able to be zombified at all, or having the become some type of Deathless instead, even when affected by Create Greater Undead or the like.

Thanks for that catch!


(an effect harms undead only when it is said to do that and so since the positive energy plane is not said to harm undead it heals them and undead are not vulnerable to the energy overflow explosion)

My response isn't worth quoting, and this is definitely neither here nor there, but I operate under the assumption that Undead were not meant to be able to dwell on the PEP. "Undead are almost impossible to find on this plane.", after all. RAW may allow it, but reasonable RAI seems that they should pretty much burst into flames if they set a single foot on the plane, and that's usually how I take it myself.


I like the concepts of white and black Mages but dislike that it does not grant full caster levels and spells...
Specially when the HD is a D4...

The one thing that, from a rational standpoint, I hate about most prestige classes is that they don't give up anything. Wizards, Clerics, and Sorcerers in particular, but other casters as well, usually sacrifice very little if at all to get into classes, most of which are a lateral shift at worse and a full upgrade at best. As a player, particularly one who enjoys his characters strong, I'm usually fine with this, but I think it's terrible design for a prestige class to not require some sort of downside in exchange for additional options or increased abilities. And I wanted to affect any and all classes that would be capable of entering this class while giving them definitive reasons for sticking it out to the very end.


Most of the abilities are solid and would also work as feats that could be taken by clerics

They are actually several feats and abilities that this class uses modified versions of.


If there was not this loss it would have approximately the power of an incatatrix.

Funny story; during my initial brain-storming process, I'd been looking -at- the Incantatrix. One of, if not the most broken class I think has ever been written, but occasionally gets some play when its abilities are used for purposes that aren't considered as overpowered (at least at that table). Normally, people don't comment as much on it if it's used for dealing damage, if only because there's 101 ways to deal damage. Additionally, one of the biggest cited flaws of healing is that it doesn't usually do enough to even justify the turn spent wasting the spell. It was that mindset that shaped some of the initial features that kept persisting through each rewrite.

I very much indeed wanted the class to be strong, but I also wanted it to be balanced by what it lost. I tried to think "at what point does this become -the- go-to option for Healing" and "how much can I take a way and still leave this at least viable, if not decent". I want the class to be good, but not too good. If there's no other option for pursuing a certain path that's as good as the stand-out, then either the stand-out needs nerfing, or other options need buffing.


Well, I've been told the class has been updated. Let's see.

This should be fun.



The requirements are super BS and need scaled back a ton

It's only because of the requirements and the lost level that this isn't broken in the first place. There isn't much room to loosen up without cutting out features. I hope this isn't a breaking point for your approval, because unless there's a divine burst of inspiration, I can safely say this is a dead-end line of conversation.


I almost let this one go as the "not-really-needed-can't-shoot-the-healer" effect until I noticed the line I have underlined. That one line takes it from fine to "veto-the-class-for-this-alone". Cut the line and it's fine.

I'd been on the fence about that since it was recommended. I will cut it the next set of revisions I make.


Now you've got it. By raising the CL caps on those spells, adding your caster level is good enough.

That was how it was the last time I modified the class from what I remember. The wording must not have been clear enough.


Side note: There is a typo. Check the underlined text closely.

Gah.


This is three perfectly good class features. Why, by Thor's might, are they listed as one class feature? They have nothing to do with each other. *****/5

Because they would have taken up a lot of ugly looking room had they been seperated. I could take the final bit and its larger version later and squeeze them into the 1st level reach ability, but I think it's better to have them spaced out and listed at the levels earned. Not a problem, I assume.


Psst... You're allowed to just give them the class feature Turn Undead.

I wondered if enabling a 10th free feat would get you off my back about the feat requirements. Trying to reach you half way here, qwerty; my arm's getting numb here.


I'm not sure if you applied my advice of one free feat per spell. It looks like it could go either way based on the GM's reading of the text. If you did, *****/5.

I did not, actually. The ability remains entirely unchanged (possibly in need of rewording to make that clear). Considering how you spend the Turn Attempt, Spell, and Action regardless of whether or not you succeed or fail, and if you fail absolutely nothing happens, attempting to stack too many modifiers is enough of a risk to justify allowing multiple.


Solid. I have changed one word just to make it sound better; I advise you do the same.

Hm... I dunno; subtract sounds more appropriate when dealing with money amounts. I'll check in with my editing department and get back on that.


Alright, last time I looked over this class, I called this "broken as a core only druid". Now... it's fine. The buffing function has been brought to a reasonable power level.

Ironically I'm still tinkering with it a bit. Might make it easier to use offensively while lessening it's abilities. At least I'm on a better track with it now.


Rain of Nirvana (Su): At 9th Level, the White Mage may modify his Mass Cure Spells with Chain Spell, even though he would not normally be able to do so. This ability is as Light Manipulation, but treat the modified spell level for using Chain Spell as 6, rather than 3. Each target affected by the initial spell is healed the full amount of the spell, while each secondary target is healed half that amount. Each secondary target must also be within 30 feet of an appropriate primary target. Regardless, no target may be healed more than once.[quote]

[QUOTE=qwertyu63;20249000]Ok. Nothing much to say here, other than "Heal all the things!".

It was something I wanted to put into the early version, but was afraid the class had enough. Considering the requirements are apparently harder than competing at EVO, I decided to include it this time.


Alright. Bring out all your healing. It's a capstone; a little bit of crazy is good here.

Apparently not crazy enough if it's still impossible to enter. :smalltongue:


* The prereqs need cut heavily.

Answer me this, qwerty. If I cut the prereqs, can you name other options that are comparable to this class in terms of what it can do? If you can come up with a couple of other non-brew prestige classes that can keep up with this one in terms of healing, then I'll remove the skill focus and reduce the skill points required to enter. I ask because if you can name a few other classes out of the thousand+ that exist, then that shows that the abilities offered by this class aren't as exclusive or unknown as once feared, which means making entering it somewhat restrictive as a balance would more limit its viability than check its power.

If -as dreaded from being able to heal around 50 points off of a Cantrip by 20th, or being able to affect literally an entire battlefield worth of lives in an instant, or being able to bring back nearly any being that has ever existed who has died- this class is too powerful, then being able enter it easier while I'm struggling with balancing it is the last thing I intend to do. If, on the other hand, it lacks the monopoly on healing I feared it might have, then while I work on keeping it clean and fixing the problems I still see about it, I can also make it less restrictive.


* Aura of Dawn needs fixing.

Deal.


* Light Manipulation needs the limit noted, assuming you intend it.
**If you don't intend it, you really should.

Already explained why I think it's fine as it stands. Hope that's not a deal-breaker either. If it is, I guess I just can't count on your approval. :smallsigh:


Everything else is minor nitpicking or me not liking the fluff.

It's kinda funny; I like to appreciate fluff used in a class, even if I rarely ever go by the basic fluff. Like, evar.

[noob]

I rather spoke of when an good undead guy decide to become a white mage not of a white mage becoming undead.
undead can fill all the requisite to start the prestige class.
But right after he took his first level in white mage because of the code he instantly loose his powers.
It is unfair for that poor good aligned undead taking his first level in this class to get none of the powers of this class.

[INoKnowNames]

I rather spoke of when an good undead guy decide to become a white mage not of a white mage becoming undead.
undead can fill all the requisite to start the prestige class.

Actually, at least in core, Undead are hit with the "Always X Evil" tag, which means by RAW (and in this case RAI, since the idea of someone joining a cause dedicated to destroying them, and that uses power anathema to their own existence sounds silly), undead do not fulfill all requirements to start the class. Outside of core, there are Deathless, who are themselves supported via positive energy, so those could join fine, but in core, standard undead guys are hosed in the alignment department. Which in and of itself means that if your dm let you play an undead who was good rather than evil, he'd probably allow you to find some means to allow you to take the class anyway, which makes this concern moot.

[noob]

Always X Evil

That is the falsest thing ever:
Undead does not have the alignment evil by default it is just that they record as evil for detect evil but their alignment is often not evil.
Zombies are neutral Skeletons are neutral necropolitans are of the alignment of the base creature(and even the base necropolitan example is neutral rather than evil)
ghosts are of any alignement and so on.
There is countless undeads witch can be good and even in core there is undead that can be good(the creators of the manuals of monsters wanted so much to insist that ghosts could have any alignment that the ghost fighter in the example of the template is so much of any alignment that there is written in the alignment line "any").
Each time someone says that all undead are evil I think that it is someone who simply does not understand necromancy at all.
Even Core outright says no to you.
The spell detect evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm) always detect undead as evil not because they are evil but because they are animated by evil energies.
Being detected as evil is not being evil since ghosts can have a good alignment.
The only viable way to know the alignment of an undead are spells like holy smite since they only take into account the alignment of the creature and not its type

[JBPuffin]

*snip* Undead don't have to be evil!

You're not wrong, but here's the thing - undead are imbued, fueled, and physically empowered by negative energy. This negative energy is anathema to a White Mage's positive energy manipulation. And as INoKnowNames notes, if you really want to play an undead positive energy master for some reason, the DM can just say, "Alright, fine, ignore the fluff restriction." That's it. It's not because they're evil, it's because they're made of the polar opposite of positive energy.

Also, INoKnowNames, if you don't think undead should take the class you need to put a note in the requirements, otherwise this debate is 100% moot.

[INoKnowNames]

You're not wrong, but here's the thing - undead are imbued, fueled, and physically empowered by negative energy. This negative energy is anathema to a White Mage's positive energy manipulation. And as INoKnowNames notes, if you really want to play an undead positive energy master for some reason, the DM can just say, "Alright, fine, ignore the fluff restriction." That's it. It's not because they're evil, it's because they're made of the polar opposite of positive energy.

Someone gets a cookie for getting it in 1. (http://bluestreak.moxleycarmichael.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cat-head1.jpg)


Also, INoKnowNames, if you don't think undead should take the class you need to put a note in the requirements, otherwise this debate is 100% moot.

The thing is, I'm not entirely against Undead taking the class, even if in most cases it's an oxymoron. As mentioned, outside Core, there are things like Deathless who would be perfect matches for it, and while I admit I missed Mummies and Ghosts (to be fair, Ghost didn't show up on the monster filter, so I blame the SRD for it), one could potentially see either taking that path, forsaking their own dark abilities in light of new power, possibly as guardians for holy locations, much like our friendly neighborhood Succubus Paladin holds back her own powerful demonic energies because of the redemption she gained from love.

Just that most undead, being fueled by negative energy, have this road barred from them.

... should I feel bad that I find myself entertained by the energetic-ness of his response? I hadn't realized I'd been so offensive. Is this how Tsukiko would respond to me?

As an aside, since you had such a good eye to get the point of my response so quickly, I'm curious if you have any other commentary about the class itself, Puffin.


That is the falsest thing ever:

Ahem. From the SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20monsterfilter/)

The Allip? Always Neutral Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm)
Bodaks? Always Chaotic Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bodak.htm)
Devourers? Always Neutral Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devourer.htm)
Ghouls, Ghasts, and Lacedons? Always Chaotic Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghoul.htm)
Mohrgs? Always Chaotic Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mohrg.htm)
Nightcrawlers/walkers/wings? Always Chaotic Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightshade.htm#nightcrawler)
Shadows? Always Chaotic Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm)
Skeletons? Always Neutral Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm)
Spectre? Always Lawful Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/spectre.htm)
Vampire? Always Any Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm#vampireSpawn)
Wight? Always Lawful Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm)
Wraiths? Always Lawful Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wraith.htm#dreadWraith)
And Zombies? Always Neutral Evil. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm)

I believe my comment was that, "At least in Core, Undead are hit with the 'Always Evil' tag.", and while I'm willing to admit that my search missed a few (notably, Mummys are only "Usually Lawful Evil", which means if they find some way to sustain themselves without Negative Energy, they're fine if they can meet the rest of the requirements), the majority still seem to apply more than "falsest thing ever" would suggest. And I believe I did in fact mention a few non-core undead not animated by negative energy and who aren't evil, who would thus be perfect creatures for Undead White Mages.

As for the necropolitan, (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/necropolitan.shtml)"Necropolitans are humanoids who renounce life and embrace undeath in a special ritual called the Ritual of Crucimigration." Qpparently to become one involves a written plea to be tortured to death for 24 hours, and upon your last breaths taken, "the ritual leader calls forth the names of evil powers and gods to forge a link with the Negative Energy Plane, and then impales the petitioner. Dying, the petitioner is reborn as a necropolitan, dead but animate." Sounds a little against the White Mage MO. Unless you're refering to different necropolitan template. I won't pretend I haven't been wrong before.

While the idea of, at least in most cases, an Undead White Mage makes about as much sense as an Underwater Fire Elemental, I choose not to bar all undead for a reason. Just the evil ones, or the ones using negative energy, since either type run entirely opposite to the design of the White Mage. I fully acknowledge that there are undead who aren't evil, and undead who are more than just negative energy conduits. I also acknowledge that there are those that are both, and I acknowledge that not every game holds fast to -any- of this. If you wanna use the class and completely ignore this, it's not like I can reach through the screen and stop you.

[JBPuffin]

Someone gets a cookie for getting it in 1. (http://bluestreak.moxleycarmichael.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cat-head1.jpg)

Yay! Cookies are delicious.


The thing is, I'm not entirely against Undead taking the class, even if in most cases it's an oxymoron. As mentioned, outside Core, there are things like Deathless who would be perfect matches for it, and while I admit I missed Mummies and Ghosts (to be fair, Ghost didn't show up on the monster filter, so I blame the SRD for it), one could potentially see either taking that path, forsaking their own dark abilities in light of new power, possibly as guardians for holy locations, much like our friendly neighborhood Succubus Paladin holds back her own powerful demonic energies because of the redemption she gained from love.

Just that most undead, being fueled by negative energy, have this road barred from them.

The "beings sustained by negative energy" definitely helps. Maybe a sidebar as to what that means for those who don't know? It'd certainly would help me, as I'm not fully aware what creatures have ties to negative energy.


As an aside, since you had such a good eye to get the point of my response so quickly, I'm curious if you have any other commentary about the class itself, Puffin.


3.5 isn't my strong suite - heck, I'm not much of a balancer for any system, more an idea guy - but let's see here.



Listing Maximize Spell separately is rather odd to me - Chaos Shuffle shenanigans aside, Mastery of Day and Night requires it and 6 Spellcraft ranks already. Is this standard practice?
I have trouble seeing Clerics taking this class, honestly. They lose hit points, BAB, and Fort save (aka, the reasons Clerics are borked BESIDES divine spellcasting) for some admittedly unique healing and nonlethal combat options, but...is the durability loss worth it for them? Healers instead lose some of their skill points, their Fort save bonus, and some of their class features, although I'm not sure how critical they are, really.
Does the Turn Undead from White Mage automatically stack with that from Cleric? If not, it should, methinks - clerics might be broken already, but not losing turning makes this class a bit more inviting.
Having to make Fort saves when the White Mage is no doubt losing some of their potential bonus is...well, it seems like injury to insult. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Make Positive Soul more explicit as to the whole point system. Does a White Mage only spend one point for each ability? How much can they spend in one go? Also, is the Fort save for the ally filling or any use of Positive Soul? Is the undead hoser a separate thing, and what's the range on it? This ability is really murky for me.
Resplendent Techniques is...wonky. It just looks fricken bizarre.


That's my take, at least. I really have no idea how balanced this Prestige Class is, nor how necessary, but I do love the source material the name is from so I do want it to succeed. Best wishes, and I'll come back to respond to your response.

[Fizban]

I have an interest in healers, but I can't say I'd be interested in playing this class. Focusing on Cure spells does cut down on the confusion of how to adjudicate the other objectively better healing spells, but the limitation irks me on general principle. At a glance, it has a ton of over-complicated roundabout class features and while it does exceed the capability of a normal build I can still mimic everything important with feats and spells. The only difficult things I see it doing are: Raise Dead without level loss, immediate action heals better than Close Wounds, and Twinning Cure spells at high levels so they stay relevant enough to bother casting instead of Heal. I'll also say right now that fluffy names really make it difficult to talk about and evaluate stuff, so they're all gonna get knocked.

Prerequisistes: five feats? I can do the entire class except the three above abilities in five feats. Divine Ward is range, Initiate of Lathander lets you over-heal with all day duration, Dragon Prophisier and Prophecy's Shaper if you must have Empower (and it works with every spell you cast), or just Augment Healing and Imbued Healing, or all six. Though you may be aware of all those based on your calibrations, I feel it should be stated.

Non-lethal combat: fluff ability, no issues.

Gentle Breeze: takes forever to reach a usable range, when I've got multiple methods of gaining longer range heals at varying strengths.

Flickering Embers/Rekindled flames: needlessly flashy names for continue turning/get turning. There's no reason to delay getting turning unless you intend to have the turning fueled abilities be blocked off from non-clerics for a while, since you're granting it before then there's no reason not to just put "gain+continue turning" at 1st level.

Aura of Dawn: ability has nothing to do with renewal or light effects or anything, name is obtuse. Running off charisma rather than casting stat is a deliberate choice but not a problem. Usefulness of ability varies: getting foes to attack the healer is often the safest course of action, since the healer is the hardest of all to kill.

Exalted Healing: if Book of Exalted Deeds is in play this name needs changing, otherwise it's not too bad. Restating how temporary hit points work will only lead to confusion, they're in the basic rules so make people learn it. "These temporary hit points last for X", and if you must then add a (temporary hit points are always lost first, and when granted from different sources do not stack). For the ability itself, that's a pitiful duration for that many hit points wasted. It's not a way to conserve leftover hp, it's an overbuff that you use right before the first blow lands.

Resplendent Techniques: another fancy name, a bland and complicated ability. First consider that there are countless ways to get bonuses to skills so actually estimating what this is worth is shaky at best. Second, so I guess this class assumes you use Cure spells frequently as anti-undead weapons? Anyway, increasing the cl cap on low level Cures is nice, but since there's no way to tell how much it's worth and I'd rather cast not-Cure spells anyway. A general caster level bonus would be nice for beating cursed wounds, but is not present.

Benediction: I'd point out that this spell is on my proto-ban list for being ridiculously too good. Slapping this on every Cure spell (or: every spell you cast) means players will roll twice on every save and probably not fail them ever again. I suppose that's good if you actually run your higher level games like rocket tag, but at ECL 9 that's shouldn't be a problem yet.

Angelic Force: name don't mean a thing. First problem: you've got an ability here at 5th level that flat changes all Cure ranges to Close, when you had an ability back at 1st level which gave them a different range and implied a different progression. Since you specified ranged touch before, you should specify here that it's no longer ranged touch and simply Target, unless it's not supposed to be. Then we've got a weird SR calculation that you'll probably never fail on thanks to the wacky spell penetration bonus based on skill modifiers, so why not just ignore it instead? It's not exactly a common ability.

Light Manipulation: this is where things start getting really complicated. You've got some Incantatrix level stuff here, tons of free metamagic without even needing to know the feats but requiring lots of rolls you'll probably make anyway. . or will you? I guess that's why there's so many tax feats in the requirements, but really I think that should be an indication that something's gone wrong. But then you take a look at the numbers again and find that those charisma checks are kinda ridiculously high to do anything useful. Also has nothing to do with Light.

Salvation: poor wording makes it difficult to tell who's receiving the negative level. No reason to involve turning attempts aside from everything at level 6 on involving turning attempts. Turning check vs twice the target's hit die makes this not so useful on PCs, but I have always wanted to go around raising bystanders for free (I can do that with a feat too).

Illuminated Aurora: nothing to do with light. Phrasing on the immunity to exploding from positive energy makes it sound like you're gaining a fast healing aura or something. This is an ability that would make sense to involve turning attempts, since Consecrate and Hallow directly involve turning already. Action for activating Hallow mode is not specified so it defaults to Standard.

Divine Intervention: a bit flashy but not too bad, if it weren't surrounded by other grandiose names it'd work well. So hey, this'l let me get immediate action healing better than Close Wounds, nice. Well except in order to do an immediate Cure Light I'd need to roll a charisma check of 21 reliably. For a Cure Crit that's a modified Charisma check of 30, which isn't so much divine intervention as divine failure. So what all exotic turning check boosters are expected to be in use here? I'm sure I could make a build that could hit some occasionally without using a faerie or something, but not in any way useful that I'd want to play.

Positive Soul: okay, so now on top of a bunch of class features combining the already complicated turning rules with completely unrelated spellcasting and extra multipliers, we now get Extra Turning but only fueling that and with a different set of multipliers that are easier. But three paragraphs down there's a massive stun penalty every time you use it, and that's not counting the extraneous uses in-between. So I guess the power gamer use is finding a way to boost your turning damage (2d6+cha is the relevant remainder here) so you can give your allies all day flat number buffs? I think I would rather just add Divine Metamagic: Persist to my normal healer build, and I hate that cheese.

Rain of Nirvana: so assuming you can even make the DC 33 minimum turning (again, charisma plus a few other modifiers that'll cap at +10 or 15 if you're cheesy), you can. . . Mass Cure Light over a wider area? I admit this is not something I can replicate offhand, and there is a possible place where it might be useful (a mass battle with a large number of allies who have enough hp to survive until healed), but I just don't care. The DM would have to specifically engineer a situation where this would be useful, at which point I would call bs and use 14th level spellcasting to change that situation into a different one. Or invent an extra wide area healing spell, or metamagic my way into something similar, or buy a scroll of Miracle, or really anything else.

Absolution: absolution has to do with sin, not being dead and in pieces. There's no big ritual here, all you need to say is "You can heal people back to life without specialized magic! Cast healing spells at their corpse until it reaches one of these thresholds and then give it a kick!" And then it involves the massive turning checks again so it's only useful on mooks, which while interesting is just not worth all the complication.

Heavenly Power: free Twinning and another range increase. Simple, useful, good. Let's see, twinned maximized empowered cure crit, call it cl20, I'm getting 142 (4d8+20 maxed=52, 2d8+10=19, (52+19)*2=142). So congratulations, your Cure Crit is now almost as good as Heal without removing all the status conditions. Cure Crit+Mass are both 2 levels lower than Heal+Mass, so you've got some extra ammo.
Well that got even more negative real fast.

So basically the big fancy abilities are useless even if you get through the complexity, the static abilities range from meh to game punishingly strong, and the whole thing is wrapped up in fanciful language that obfuscates the issue instead of adequately describing class abilities. Incantatrix is hideously broken because it relies on a skill check that can be boosted with ease. The metamagic abilities of this class are instead based on a flat charisma check that benefits only from obscure bonuses, making it even harder to estimate and broken in the other direction. Finally there's the basic catch-22 of healer builds where once you're good enough that the party can't die, there's no longer any point in playing the game: with cheap mass healing that also massively boosts and rerolls saves, there really isn't anything that can harm you outside of DM fiat so what's the point?

I salute your dedication (you have clearly spent a lot of time on this after all, and creating things is time well spent), but my judgement is: nope, back to the drawing board. Gonna need to tear it down and start over again. I think most people have been evaluating based on "eh, cure spells with free metamagic, not gonna kill monsters faster so it's fine," but even if you agree with that sentiment half of everything here is dysfunctional as all get out and even if by some chance a player asked me I wouldn't allow it. Build them a version that works, sure, but not this as it's written now.

[INoKnowNames]

The "beings sustained by negative energy" definitely helps. Maybe a sidebar as to what that means for those who don't know? It'd certainly would help me, as I'm not fully aware what creatures have ties to negative energy.

I'll have to work on that. I'd had it initially pegged as "Beings created via Animate Dead, Create Undead, Create Greater Undead, or similar effects (including the ritual of Crucimigration and the process of becoming a Lich)", but without adding an adendum to that, in core alone it ignores Allips, Bodaks, Nightshades, Vampires, and Wights -none of which seem appropriate for the class.


3.5 isn't my strong suite - heck, I'm not much of a balancer for any system, more an idea guy - but let's see here.
Eh, I'm appreciating looks. Something might fly under the weather at first until someone points it out for the first time.



Listing Maximize Spell separately is rather odd to me - Chaos Shuffle shenanigans aside, Mastery of Day and Night requires it and 6 Spellcraft ranks already. Is this standard practice?
I've just been annoyed but having had some classes list a feat, only to look it up and see it has 2-3 additional required feats of it.


I have trouble seeing Clerics taking this class, honestly. They lose hit points, BAB, and Fort save (aka, the reasons Clerics are borked BESIDES divine spellcasting) for some admittedly unique healing and nonlethal combat options, but...is the durability loss worth it for them? Healers instead lose some of their skill points, their Fort save bonus, and some of their class features, although I'm not sure how critical they are, really.
It's meant to be a more specialized option, trading some things and losing others. Though, I was thinking about increasing the HD to 6 and the skill points to 4. Not as sure on the Fort, though.



Does the Turn Undead from White Mage automatically stack with that from Cleric? If not, it should, methinks - clerics might be broken already, but not losing turning makes this class a bit more inviting.
I must not have made that as clear as I'd liked. Those who do not have Turn Undead gain it half way through. Those who -do- have Turn Undead start stacking from 1st level, and gain Extra Turning half way through.


Positive Soul Complaints
I'd not been fully satisfied with that since the second set of rewrites. I don't want to cut it, since the opposite class is going to be able to inflict Negative Levels at will at the same point, but at the same time I'm looking to edit it very soon.


Resplendent Techniques is...wonky. It just looks fricken bizarre.
It does? I'm not sure why. Admittedly, the value in it probably was more apparent when the bonuses were higher, but I was made aware of how they could be potentially too high. Regardless, in certain situations you get to add your skill mod to the situation to help you out.


That's my take, at least. I really have no idea how balanced this Prestige Class is, nor how necessary, but I do love the source material the name is from so I do want it to succeed. Best wishes, and I'll come back to respond to your response.
Preciate it. Hope to see your response once I can apply some more tweaking to it.


I have an interest in healers, but I can't say I'd be interested in playing this class.
Fair, and I appreciate you for having a good follow post to this point.


Focusing on Cure spells does cut down on the confusion of how to adjudicate the other objectively better healing spells, but the limitation irks me on general principle.
Hopefully that doesn't affect your view on the class. Objective Criticism is fine, but no need for anything to be too personal. Not that I'm saying you are -and I know you aren't because I've gotten quite a bit of usable feedback from you, but I've met people who would veto an idea on principle alone, rather than practicality, and I've always hated that mindset. At least acknowledge a good idea when you see it, even if you don't like it! Also be sure to do the opposite: feel free to like something, but don't pretend it isn't garbage if it is.


I'll also say right now that fluffy names really make it difficult to talk about and evaluate stuff, so they're all gonna get knocked.
Entirely fair criticism. I wanted to avoid the name not being at all interesting, but I'm more than wiling to look over replacements. I'm bad with names... hence my username.



Prerequisistes: five feats? I can do the entire class except the three above abilities in five feats. Divine Ward is range, Initiate of Lathander lets you over-heal with all day duration, Dragon Prophisier and Prophecy's Shaper if you must have Empower (and it works with every spell you cast), or just Augment Healing and Imbued Healing, or all six. Though you may be aware of all those based on your calibrations, I feel it should be stated.
I was indeed aware of several of the feets useful to a Healing based build. I buffed/nerfed several to form some of this class' abilities, actually. Had I had my way, more feats that should have been class features would simply be class features, but that's the price to pay for a system so customizable.

It's only 3 feats, not 5. Divine Ward is more limited in its range, targets and usage (though offset by the ability to use more than just one select set of spells). I also believe you are refering to the Initiate of Ilmater, not Lathander; Lathander just lets you spontaneously cast light based spells. Also, the duration, while admittedly longer, isn't all day; just an hour. Didn't want to invalidate -every- feat, even if it essentially gains several of them. While I wouldn't say that Augment Healing quite matches the similar feature in this class, you can still take it, and Imbued Healing, to further improve your abilities.

One thing not stated is that I'm about 70% sure that most of the above feats are also very limited to Clerics without some optimization. The class, while admittedly still favoring Clerics, is meant to be a bit more open in terms of who can get into it. Healers, Adepts, and Divine Bards get a little more love this way.


Gentle Breeze: takes forever to reach a usable range, when I've got multiple methods of gaining longer range heals at varying strengths.
Mildly curious how many other methods you know of beyond Divine Ward. I know there are several, but just to compare the differences between them.


There's no reason to delay getting turning unless you intend to have the turning fueled abilities be blocked off from non-clerics for a while, since you're granting it before then there's no reason not to just put "gain+continue turning" at 1st level.
As an optimizer, I'm fine with low level classes granting abilities easily dipped for. From a design standpoint, I think that's ugly looking. So that's why it doesn't outright grant Turning to classes that don't already have it, but continues it if the class does.


Aura of Dawn: Usefulness of ability varies: getting foes to attack the healer is often the safest course of action, since the healer is the hardest of all to kill.
I wouldn't put that to law or anything, particularly in my own experiences. Though at this point I wouldn't put much to law. That said, admittedly this ability was an early level Consecrate before, with the later ability being just straight Hallow, but for some reason I thought that was imbalanced back when. Now, I'm not so sure.


Exalted Healing: if Book of Exalted Deeds is in play this name needs changing, otherwise it's not too bad.
I had it in mind when working on this class, as I had the Book of Vile Darkness in mind when writing its opposite. Many abilities that might look oddly placed in a vaccum might look a little better once I fix imbalances, post the evil twin alongside it, and people go "Oh, so that's why those are there". I fully acknowledge that's probably only slightly better than "make a purposefully imbalanced class and screw all the rules so long as you win" in terms of "Bad class design", but it gave me a direction to work with when first drafting them.


Restating how temporary hit points work will only lead to confusion, they're in the basic rules so make people learn it. "These temporary hit points last for X", and if you must then add a (temporary hit points are always lost first, and when granted from different sources do not stack).
I'd seen so many features add a phrase similar to that that I thought it was customary to add.


For the ability itself, that's a pitiful duration for that many hit points wasted. It's not a way to conserve leftover hp, it's an overbuff that you use right before the first blow lands.
Potentially 600 rounds seems too short? This was another case of wanting to avoid outright eclipsing the feats and spells used in the design, while allowing the feature to still be useful. Though, to be honest, I don't think I could tell you what finally got it down to 1 minute per level I'd written this feature so long ago. At time of writing this, I'm suddenly thinking 5 minutes a level should let it be useful without being too much longer than most spells or abilities would allow, but I won't pretend to be more than a little out of touch.


Resplendent Techniques: a bland and complicated ability.
... isn't that an oxymoron? I don't mind if it's not considered good, or if you think it's either one or the other, but don't those two contrast each other a bit?


First consider that there are countless ways to get bonuses to skills so actually estimating what this is worth is shaky at best.
It'd actually come to my attention that even at a 1/2 bonus, this was too strong, and was more acceptable in its current setting.


Second, so I guess this class assumes you use Cure spells frequently as anti-undead weapons?
Meant to become a usable option, depending on the power level of the table in question, yeah.


I'd rather cast not-Cure spells anyway.
Seems like a personal preference, if you don't mind me saying.


A general caster level bonus would be nice for beating cursed wounds, but is not present.
.... I actually have to laugh here. Do you know in the past, what, 5 years of playing 3.5, I've -NEVER- encountered a Clay Golem before? I've never even so much as crossed it in the Monster Manual; I actually had to google that to find out what you were refering to. That made my morning... In any case, I'll be adding that in, probably... under the K-Religion Bonus.


Benediction: I'd point out that this spell is on my proto-ban list for being ridiculously too good. Slapping this on every Cure spell (or: every spell you cast) means players will roll twice on every save and probably not fail them ever again. I suppose that's good if you actually run your higher level games like rocket tag, but at ECL 9 that's shouldn't be a problem yet.
First of all, this made me laugh a second time. Let me tell you, I entirely forgot that this ability was named after the spell of a similar nature, and had to look around to find out what spell it had imitated! I was like "What? This is a class feature, not a spell. Wait, there are some spells that do offer rerolls... -google search-. Ooooh. Pfffbt."

Second, this was actually meant to be a way to protect against status effects, not an automatic "ignore every save in the game" effect. For some reason, even though I was wanting it to be that, when I was picking between Benediction, Panacea, and ... I think it may have been Invigorating Spell, in terms of what to use as a baseline, for some reason I'd decided to pick Benediction. That said,while I'm not unwilling to rethink, nerf, or even rewrite this ability entirely, note it's not "every spell you cast", and the chance to reroll isn't for a much shorter duration. It's strong, yes, but not quite that strong.

As an aside, the base spell being referenced comes in at ECL 3, so it's already kind of a thing. This effect, while coming in at ECL 9-10 on the average build, shouldn't be that out of place, particularly since it's attached to a set of spells that, in your own opinion from what I am aware (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), aren't much worth casting in the first place. Also, isn't the mid level range (ie 9-10th level) when the more dangerous save-or-suck/die spells start becoming even more common than they already are?


Angelic Force: First problem: you've got an ability here at 5th level that flat changes all Cure ranges to Close, when you had an ability back at 1st level which gave them a different range and implied a different progression. Since you specified ranged touch before, you should specify here that it's no longer ranged touch and simply Target, unless it's not supposed to be.
I might need to go back and look at how the ranges are calculated and intersect. Something inbetween the notes I made and the latest posting may have bleed out without me catching it. It was supposed to be an increased progression that gains a jump here, and then gets an additional jump later on. It's still meant to stay a Ranged Touch; that range should merely increase.


Then we've got a weird SR calculation that you'll probably never fail on thanks to the wacky spell penetration bonus based on skill modifiers, so why not just ignore it instead? It's not exactly a common ability.
Do you mean this ability is uncommon? Or that the ability to completely shutdown Positive Energy effects is uncommon? If the later, it's at least as common as a single 4th level spell, and having a 4th level spell shut down an entire class seems like terrible design (in a system admittedly already riddled with bad design, but still). If the former, I while is question how much a non-Incantatrix (or non-Epic) is willing to "Spellcraft-mance", to claim one is entirely unable to fail spellcraft checks from that point on isn't something I'm entirely sure about. Admittedly, that -is- something I'd like to be able to test.


Light Manipulation: this is where things start getting really complicated. You've got some Incantatrix level stuff here, tons of free metamagic without even needing to know the feats but requiring lots of rolls you'll probably make anyway. . or will you? -snip- But then you take a look at the numbers again and find that those charisma checks are kinda ridiculously high to do anything useful.

It's meant to be a way to cast a spell in an emergency, assuming an appropriate amount of skill on the part of the caster, but without being too advantageous about it or allowing for too many uses, and yet without being too difficult, either. As a general response to the later abilities gained that require making a Turn Undead Attempt to activate, I'll probably take another look at how this was calculated and see if it still sits right with me.


I guess that's why there's so many tax feats in the requirements, but really I think that should be an indication that something's gone wrong.
While there are couple of abilities that would be lost if I did so, I'd actually be willing to remove all Turn Undead based abilities and -still- leave most of the requirements as is, at least off of the top of my head. I'd probably try to find a way to fill in some of the voids lost, or other interesting abilities that would make play enjoyable, but it still had nothing to do with the requirements. I'd always intended the class to require investment to get in, and hopefully receieve an equal amount of reward back for the opportunity cost. I feel like that's decent design, though whether or not I've made that point may be in the eye of the beholder. That was not an intentional D&D pun.


Salvation: poor wording makes it difficult to tell who's receiving the negative level.
You deserve a cookie, too. Holy crap I did not notice how bad that was before.


No reason to involve turning attempts aside from everything at level 6 on involving turning attempts.
I'm not too satisfied with that, either, but apparently it looks better this way. I'd had the Turn Undead based abilities gained at a lower level, and some of the additional adjustments spread out over other levels, in exchange for some of the earlier features gained later. Yet one of the few responses here noted that to be not good enough. Heh, try to please one set of responses and the second they seem placated in that regard, someone else becomes unsatisfied.


Turning check vs twice the target's hit die makes this not so useful on PCs
Again, something I'm not entirely sure about, and would prefer to be able to test or recalculate. Though that's just the casting speed of the effect, and not the entire spell itself.


but I have always wanted to go around raising bystanders for free (I can do that with a feat too).
Curious what feat allows for that. Care to share with the rest of the class?


Illuminated Aurora: Phrasing on the immunity to exploding from positive energy makes it sound like you're gaining a fast healing aura or something.
It's meant to do that, at least within the Positive Energy Plane or such locations that -would- cause the exploding.


This is an ability that would make sense to involve turning attempts, since Consecrate and Hallow directly involve turning already.
Another response caused from former problems still causing regrets. I wanted to leave the Hallow effect in place, but still wanted the Consecrate effect to remain. It looked more reasonable before, when the Turning abilities were more spread out and the Consecrate base was gained at a lower level, and thus would make using the Turning Abilities slightly easier. I'm still rethinking wondering about whether or not having the early level Consecrate is too much more unacceptable than the at will Sanctuary...


Action for activating Hallow mode is not specified so it defaults to Standard.
I'll denote that as a free action, assuming the above doesn't go into effect. Another good catch!


Positive Soul
I'll re-read this after I've taken a hammer and chisel to this ability. I've already been looking at it more and more with distaste for a bit. The overall feel I actually enjoy, but a few things, including that save, I'm no longer comfortable with.


Rain of Nirvana: -snip- but I just don't care. -snip-
I don't mind criticism. I really don't; you've actually given me several good ideas to think about in the process of all of your response, and I quite appreciate it. It's the thinly-veiled vitrol that I don't like. I apologize if reading this class and working on your responses has been akin to drinking Niquil without being sick (and that's honestly not a bite back at you; my writing sucks and I won't pretend my balance is too much better), but does it really upset you that badly, and is there any point in being rude if so?


Absolution: There's no big ritual here, all you need to say is "You can heal people back to life without specialized magic! Cast healing spells at their corpse until it reaches one of these thresholds and then give it a kick!"
I acknowledge needing to work on the rewrite of quite a few of these. I'd seen so many effects and classes that include additional fluff right before crunch even after the intro, for some reason I'd felt like continuing to do so in this class.

Funny story: For a while, the Capstone would have allowed a Healer to be able to bring to life an undead who is defeated by his Cure Spell, provided that undead had once been a living being. Like a reverse Fell-Animate. I wonder if that would be a better choice.


And then it involves the massive turning checks again so it's only useful on mooks, which while interesting is just not worth all the complication.
Honestly, at this point, while I'm still thinking about needing to rejigger the calculation for these checks, I find myself wondering how many times you've seen or heard someone making as much use of a feature or ability score as possible. Maybe I've seen, heard, and admittdly done it enough that -from a designer, not a player- standpoint, I'm a bit warry on letting it be too easy, rather than too hard.


Well that got even more negative real fast.
A bit surprisingly so, actually.


So basically -snip-
I would have quoted the entire bit, but I left this spot only because it's the thought behind it, and not the actual remark, that I felt like responding to. And my response is that I hope that I addressed most of that in the commentary above.


Finally there's the basic catch-22 of healer builds where once you're good enough that the party can't die, there's no longer any point in playing the game: with cheap mass healing that also massively boosts and rerolls saves, there really isn't anything that can harm you outside of DM fiat so what's the point?
That's actually a problem I realized a bit ago that I admittedly still have little answer to, even taking in account some of the responses to both your post and previous posts. Ultimately, I suppose it's up to the table as a whole to decide what is and isn't acceptable in terms of how much is too much, though that applies to a lot of things, doesn't it? Once someone gets too much attack power, or becomes too hard to hit, or can solve too many encounters of a certain kind with their abilities... though I don't pretend that excuses this class of its faults.


I salute your dedication (you have clearly spent a lot of time on this after all, and creating things is time well spent), but my judgement is: nope, back to the drawing board. Gonna need to tear it down and start over again. I think most people have been evaluating based on "eh, cure spells with free metamagic, not gonna kill monsters faster so it's fine," but even if you agree with that sentiment half of everything here is dysfunctional as all get out and even if by some chance a player asked me I wouldn't allow it. Build them a version that works, sure, but not this as it's written now.
While hopefully I won't need to 'tear it down and start over again', I do appreciate your critique and find your judgement... a little harsh, but overall respectable. A 1-eyebrow raiser, followed by a nod and a shrug. Hopefully that stance isn't set in concrete; I'd like to see your response after I continue working on edits.

[Fizban]

I've met people who would veto an idea on principle alone, rather than practicality, and I've always hated that mindset. At least acknowledge a good idea when you see it, even if you don't like it! Also be sure to do the opposite: feel free to like something, but don't pretend it isn't garbage if it is.
Well there's practicality to it too. Close Wounds and Stabilize are already immediate/swift actions, Insignia of Healing does Mass Cure Light (friends) 2 levels sooner, Channeled Divine Health has a pretty good built in range, and Darts of Life is generally considered the best healing spell (though that depends on how your DM rules it interacts with Augment Healing et all.) Cure spells are useful for being spontaneous and give a bit more hp than the ranged options, but boosting Cures only means you have to choose between getting your class bonuses and using spells that are innately better at the other jobs.

Entirely fair criticism. I wanted to avoid the name not being at all interesting, but I'm more than wiling to look over replacements. I'm bad with names... hence my username.
*Looks at username* Hehe, hehehe, well played.


Initiate of Ilmater, not Lathander; Lathander just lets you spontaneously cast light based spells.Also, the duration, while admittedly longer, isn't all day; just an hour. Didn't want to invalidate -every- feat, even if it essentially gains several of them. While I wouldn't say that Augment Healing quite matches the similar feature in this class, you can still take it, and Imbued Healing, to further improve your abilities.
One thing not stated is that I'm about 70% sure that most of the above feats are also very limited to Clerics without some optimization. The class, while admittedly still favoring Clerics, is meant to be a bit more open in terms of who can get into it. Healers, Adepts, and Divine Bards get a little more love this way.
Mildly curious how many other methods you know of beyond Divine Ward. I know there are several, but just to compare the differences between them.
D'oh, yeah I mix up the names all the time. The initiate feat's temp hp last for an hour per caster level, so minimum 7 hours. Augment+Imbue provide enough bonus healing/temp hp to do the job in my experience (healer build ran from 5th to 11th or so, I built it for the party and was only able to kill them when they royally messed up, never when they were being actively healed). Divine Ward and Initiate of Ilmater are the only cleric restricted feats, but cleric does of course have the advantage.

Ranged healing: Divine Ward, Reach Spell+reducers of choice, items: Unicorn Horn, Metamagic Rods, spells; Close Wounds, Stabilize, Insignia of Healing, Channeled Divine Health, Greater Status (channels touches up to 2nd), Darts of Life. Pretty sure you could pull some shenanigans to get into War Weaver and make your heals hit the whole party, but eh.

As an optimizer, I'm fine with low level classes granting abilities easily dipped for. From a design standpoint, I think that's ugly looking. So that's why it doesn't outright grant Turning to classes that don't already have it, but continues it if the class does.
The lost caster level at 1st ought to pay for it, unless you just mean table symmetry.

I wouldn't put that to law or anything, particularly in my own experiences. Though at this point I wouldn't put much to law. That said, admittedly this ability was an early level Consecrate before, with the later ability being just straight Hallow, but for some reason I thought that was imbalanced back when. Now, I'm not so sure.
Fair enough. Captain Awesome (cleric of himself, can't claim to be the best at names either and he had Pride for survivability) was built tanky after all. Consecrate aura isn't so notable except for the turning bonus, which now that I look it up is probably what's supposed to make the below turning checks useable, we'll see when I get there. Against actual undead it's not much and the scariest already have their own Desecrate aura that you'll just get to cancel out.

I'd seen so many features add a phrase similar to that that I thought it was customary to add.
True, many classes are written that way. As long as you keep the phrasing identical to the main rules it should be okay, I think that's what I got in the parenthesis but I did it from memory.

Potentially 600 rounds seems too short? This was another case of wanting to avoid outright eclipsing the feats and spells used in the design, while allowing the feature to still be useful. Though, to be honest, I don't think I could tell you what finally got it down to 1 minute per level I'd written this feature so long ago. At time of writing this, I'm suddenly thinking 5 minutes a level should let it be useful without being too much longer than most spells or abilities would allow, but I won't pretend to be more than a little out of touch.
Searching a room takes a good few minutes, espeically if you want to take 20 on anything important. 10 minutes is okay if you bum rush as fast as you can, but that also leads to being overextended and being surrounded.

[Regarding Resplendant Techniques]... isn't that an oxymoron? I don't mind if it's not considered good, or if you think it's either one or the other, but don't those two contrast each other a bit?
It'd actually come to my attention that even at a 1/2 bonus, this was too strong, and was more acceptable in its current setting.
[offense]Meant to become a usable option, depending on the power level of the table in question, yeah.
The resulting effect is just a flat numerical bonus that applies all the time, pretty bland. Determining the value of the bonus is more complicated and can change on the fly, kinda annoying. 1/4 bonus may be low enough it's not too strong, my biggest issue is that it's just too unpredictable due to the many and varied sources of skill bonuses, though I also wouldn't usually allow turning skill bonus into other bonus anyway. I'd take whatever thresholds you'd find at your expected level of optimization, and then just use those directly rather than hoping it works out.

.... I actually have to laugh here. Do you know in the past, what, 5 years of playing 3.5, I've -NEVER- encountered a Clay Golem before? I've never even so much as crossed it in the Monster Manual; I actually had to google that to find out what you were refering to. That made my morning... In any case, I'll be adding that in, probably... under the K-Religion Bonus.
Heh, while I may have used the general term "cursed wounds" that the clay golem has, I was more referring to say, Mummies (mummy rot blocks healing), spells (I think it's Greymantle, blocks healing), and certain Demons or Devils. It's not common by any means but it is one of the only reasons I'd usually care about a cl bonus on healing spells.

[Benediction]First of all, this made me laugh a second time. Let me tell you, I entirely forgot that this ability was named after the spell of a similar nature, and had to look around to find out what spell it had imitated! I was like "What? This is a class feature, not a spell. Wait, there are some spells that do offer rerolls... -google search-. Ooooh. Pfffbt."

Second, this was actually meant to be a way to protect against status effects, not an automatic "ignore every save in the game" effect. For some reason, even though I was wanting it to be that, when I was picking between Benediction, Panacea, and ... I think it may have been Invigorating Spell, in terms of what to use as a baseline, for some reason I'd decided to pick Benediction. That said,while I'm not unwilling to rethink, nerf, or even rewrite this ability entirely, note it's not "every spell you cast", and the chance to reroll isn't for a much shorter duration. It's strong, yes, but not quite that strong.

As an aside, the base spell being referenced comes in at ECL 3, so it's already kind of a thing. This effect, while coming in at ECL 9-10 on the average build, shouldn't be that out of place, particularly since it's attached to a set of spells that, in your own opinion from what I am aware (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), aren't much worth casting in the first place. Also, isn't the mid level range (ie 9-10th level) when the more dangerous save-or-suck/die spells start becoming even more common than they already are?
Compared to other heals below Heal, Cures are worth casting when someone has enough damage the hp won't be wasted and you don't need range (and have the time to cast a standard action spell, but if you're a healer your priorities have shifted). I mentioned that I have Benediction on my ban list because it's overpowered, but if you disagree then consider that you're adding a free 2nd level spell to every Cure, and a Mass version worth at least a 4th or 5th slot to every Mass Cure. I say it's all the spells you'd cast because that's what specialists do? At ECL 9-10 it might just be one save per fight, but at high levels when you can spam Mass Cure Light just to keep the rerolls active even if you're saving your Mass Crits it's pretty huge. Save or die spells just barely come on at 5th (unless the DM is using a couple restricted 4th level spells), and most non-gaze attack monsters have a limited supply of save or dies, which become significantly less threatening when the party's covered in rerolls. I must admit I haven't actually played anything at that level and I generally reject the whole "rocket tag" assumption because it's fallacious (the game will only go that way if you want it to), but I have read testimony from a guy who played a reroll-based build and according to him it was pretty boring as he just succeeded at everything. This class feature is the only one I've ever seen to give out rerolls this easily, beating any others by miles.

[converting postive immunity to SR]Do you mean this ability is uncommon? Or that the ability to completely shutdown Positive Energy effects is uncommon? If the later, it's at least as common as a single 4th level spell, and having a 4th level spell shut down an entire class seems like terrible design (in a system admittedly already riddled with bad design, but still). If the former, I while is question how much a non-Incantatrix (or non-Epic) is willing to "Spellcraft-mance", to claim one is entirely unable to fail spellcraft checks from that point on isn't something I'm entirely sure about. Admittedly, that -is- something I'd like to be able to test.
A 4th level spell sure, which needs to be cast by a 7th level caster. The only creatures harmed by positive energy are undead, and the vast majority of undead are not 7th level casters. For anything else, well if neither of us has a list of creatures with positive immunity ready then we can hardly evaluate weather it's a good idea or not can we? That's why I'd go with something simple to start, like ignoring half or just ignoring all of it period, so it's easier to evaluate. If it was only meant to break through the spell you could use a dispel check, but I'm sure you want it to work on the rare innate creature ability as well.

It's meant to be a way to cast a spell in an emergency, assuming an appropriate amount of skill on the part of the caster, but without being too advantageous about it or allowing for too many uses, and yet without being too difficult, either. As a general response to the later abilities gained that require making a Turn Undead Attempt to activate, I'll probably take another look at how this was calculated and see if it still sits right with me.
While there are couple of abilities that would be lost if I did so, I'd actually be willing to remove all Turn Undead based abilities and -still- leave most of the requirements as is, at least off of the top of my head. I'd probably try to find a way to fill in some of the voids lost, or other interesting abilities that would make play enjoyable, but it still had nothing to do with the requirements. I'd always intended the class to require investment to get in, and hopefully receieve an equal amount of reward back for the opportunity cost. I feel like that's decent design, though whether or not I've made that point may be in the eye of the beholder. That was not an intentional D&D pun.
I hate so-called "emergency" abilities that have a chance of failure. Emergency abilities have high costs or are useable extremely infrequently, but will absolutely save you in an emergency, that's the whole point. An unreliable ability is something you should never ever use in an emergency. This forces you to go all-or-nothing based on chance and is usable many times per day, it's a high stakes gamble, the exact opposite of an emergency ability. Having to use this in an emergency is basically saying "oh, so you had some unlucky rolls, well how about you make some more rolls and see if things get better?," the same as expecting basic combat to just turn around and even out based on luck. Gotta pick one or the other: highly limited metamagic meant for emergencies, or a gamble the player tries to weight in their favor for free metamagic all the time.
The class would indeed still have more than enough power without the turning stuff, just based on the ranged metamagicked healing+benediction spam alone.

[turning stuff after level 6] I'm not too satisfied with that, either, but apparently it looks better this way. I'd had the Turn Undead based abilities gained at a lower level, and some of the additional adjustments spread out over other levels, in exchange for some of the earlier features gained later. Yet one of the few responses here noted that to be not good enough. Heh, try to please one set of responses and the second they seem placated in that regard, someone else becomes unsatisfied.
Might have been due to the charisma checks involved, which are easier to optimize at higher levels and when you have Consecrate+Hallow on tap, but I imagine it was more a need to bring the continuous effects earlier than a need to delay the turning.

[salvation turning check]Again, something I'm not entirely sure about, and would prefer to be able to test or recalculate. Though that's just the casting speed of the effect, and not the entire spell itself.
Screw casting speed, I was referring to removing the gp cost. The DC for PCs is obvious, twice your own level because the PCs should all be the same level. Expected player's charisma check bonus, well now that's just like the positive energy immunity above. You've put in a mechanic without fully understanding how it's going to work, not such good idea. Could probably google up a turn undead handbook for a full list but I'll put what I can think of below.

Curious what feat allows for that [raising everyone for free]. Care to share with the rest of the class?
Hehe, it's one of my favorite finds, but I did point out that the class features here do it better. The feat is Touchstone, from Sandstorm, and the Touchstone you want is the Healing Waters of Abu-Ima. An EL6 encounter site with mostly melee beasts on the table, it's higher order ability is Raise Dead as a spell-like ability and thus with no gp cost, usable 1/week with two charges, but requiring Turn Undead and a trip to the pool to recharge. So you get turning on whatever character you want, get some teleportation, and now you can Raise one person per week until the DM decides to nuke the site. It's the lowest character cost I've found. Buy some Unguent of Timelessness early on (it's only 150gp for multiple uses) and preserve any bystanders who die on your watch, come back and Raise 'em later.

It's meant to do that, at least within the Positive Energy Plane or such locations that -would- cause the exploding.
But you're not gaining a fast healing aura, on the positive on any other plane. You're just suppressing the lethal effects of the natural fast healing on the positive plane, so there's no reason to imply that the character is giving off a major new ability. And I see that you've already changed the wording to match.

Another response caused from former problems still causing regrets. I wanted to leave the Hallow effect in place, but still wanted the Consecrate effect to remain. It looked more reasonable before, when the Turning abilities were more spread out and the Consecrate base was gained at a lower level, and thus would make using the Turning Abilities slightly easier. I'm still rethinking wondering about whether or not having the early level Consecrate is too much more unacceptable than the at will Sanctuary...
Eh, Sanctuary is only so helpful and Consecrate doesn't do much on it's own. I'd say the improved Sanctuary effect is worth more than the Consecrate.

I don't mind criticism. I really don't; you've actually given me several good ideas to think about in the process of all of your response, and I quite appreciate it. It's the thinly-veiled vitrol that I don't like. I apologize if reading this class and working on your responses has been akin to drinking Niquil without being sick (and that's honestly not a bite back at you; my writing sucks and I won't pretend my balance is too much better), but does it really upset you that badly, and is there any point in being rude if so?
I was getting pretty tired by this point, which is basically why it's there: to show that having gone through all the mechanics up to that point, chained Mass Cure was just not worth caring about. I tried to think of a situation where it'd be useful, figure out how hard it was to replicate, but I just didn't have the energy left to bother when I knew it wasn't something I'd need and there were easier ways to go about it. Having so many complex abilities packed into one place makes the cost for reading and understanding them all high enough that they stop mattering, gotta conserve detail.

Funny story: For a while, the Capstone would have allowed a Healer to be able to bring to life an undead who is defeated by his Cure Spell, provided that undead had once been a living being. Like a reverse Fell-Animate. I wonder if that would be a better choice.
That is awesome. The same kind of "screw it, we're 15th+" attitude from some other homebrew I was critiquing a while back. While it potentially creates all sorts of problems where you finish off a boss monster and it either joins your team or hates you for re-lifeing and and you have to fight all over again, by this level the DM probably has to take a lot of character unique stuff into account so it should be more cool than game-destroying. This is what should be getting details.

[turning checks]Honestly, at this point, while I'm still thinking about needing to rejigger the calculation for these checks, I find myself wondering how many times you've seen or heard someone making as much use of a feature or ability score as possible. Maybe I've seen, heard, and admittdly done it enough that -from a designer, not a player- standpoint, I'm a bit warry on letting it be too easy, rather than too hard.
Of course, you have to make every ability assuming it will be used to the fullest (hence why I assume that once you have Benediction attached to every Cure spell, it's gonna always be active on everyone). Aiming high to make sure it's not easily abused is good, but if the gap's too large then it becomes unusable for most people. You can't decide on a DC without knowing what modifiers the PC will have.

[party unkillable due to healing]That's actually a problem I realized a bit ago that I admittedly still have little answer to, even taking in account some of the responses to both your post and previous posts. Ultimately, I suppose it's up to the table as a whole to decide what is and isn't acceptable in terms of how much is too much, though that applies to a lot of things, doesn't it? Once someone gets too much attack power, or becomes too hard to hit, or can solve too many encounters of a certain kind with their abilities... though I don't pretend that excuses this class of its faults.
The only solution I'd have is to just not make dedicated healer classes at all. An optimized healer puts a pretty huge dent in threat for a lot of the game without any special tricks, so unless the class has built in limits it's only going to make the dent bigger. As you say, it's just like any other aspect where the table will have to agree on how much is too much.

While hopefully I won't need to 'tear it down and start over again', I do appreciate your critique and find your judgement... a little harsh, but overall respectable. A 1-eyebrow raiser, followed by a nod and a shrug. Hopefully that stance isn't set in concrete; I'd like to see your response after I continue working on edits.
Well you did postulate removing all the turning attempt stuff up above and having the class still be strong enough: gutting half your class features is pretty much tearing it down, that's what I was getting at. It's like how they declare a car "totaled" if it's above some percentage of wrecked, which I'm told is actually a rather low fraction of the actual cost.


Okay, so optimizing turning checks.
Charisma bonus
Know: religion synergy +2
Glory Domain: +2/+1d6 turning damage
Affiliation: +2 (Complete Champion, Pelor or Healing Domain)
Light of Faith: +5 sacred (Complete Champion, 2nd level swift action spell caps at cl10)
Circlet of Persuasion: +3 competence (DMG, 4,500gp)

Consecrate: +3 sacred, +6 with altar
Hallow: +4 sacred
White mage consecrate+hallow aura: +7 (since you say they specifically stack)

Heighten Turning feat +X (Ghostwalk, up to +cleric level, may only work when actually Turning or Rebuking Undead)
Combine Turning feat: +4 check and damage per extra use spent (Ghostwalk WE, is worded so it can apply to any "attempt")

Moment of Prescience: +17 insight or more (available through Luck domain, scrolls, etc)

So with a charisma of 14, we've got 2+2+2+2+5+3=+16, +14 if we use Consecrate instead of Light of Faith, +18 if we use White Mage's stacking auras, +20 if we add a +4 charisma item, available pretty much all the time. Moment of Prescience and similar effects can be obtained with just a couple extra steps, cross-class UMD if nothing else, or use the Ghostwalk feats. Reactive Mass Cure Crit is within reach (DC 42, use Moment of Prescience or Combine Turning with 3-4 uses). But that's for full optimization. For someone who isn't maxing it, +2 synergy, +3 circlet (it's cheap), +7 double aura, +12 total, which isn't even enough to reliably cast a Reactive Cure Light to match Close Wounds, the definition of emergency healing. The optimized +14-20 is enough to boost 1-4th level spells by varying amount pretty reliably.

DC of modified spell level*3 is probably fine, but I still say that making it that complex in the first place is a mistake. It's unique and allows lots of optimization room by borrowing all the turning check optimizations, but a number or pool of variable uses is easier to understand and keep under control. Reading a ton of alternate turning uses that only work if you max optimize it is tiring and distracts from the other fully reliable features of the class. If it must tie into turning you can let them convert turn shots into the pool, or make it charisma based the same as turning is supposed to be. You could also try putting the cure-cantatrixing in it's own section at the bottom, where it can be ignored until desired instead of gumming up the works.