Do Drow Get Sunburn?

[ekarney]

I'm DMing a Drow-heavy campaign and for realism purposes I'm wondering if Drow can get sunburn? If so, does their skin still go red?

Also, living underground their entire lives, how do they make up for vitamin D deficiency?

[Troacctid]

I'm DMing a Drow-heavy campaign and for realism purposes I'm wondering if Drow can get sunburn? If so, does their skin still go red?
Per Sandstorm, characters with naturally dark skin pigmentation are resistant to sunburn. It takes 6 hours for them to become mildly sunburned, and 12 hours for them to become heavily sunburned.


Also, living underground their entire lives, how do they make up for vitamin D deficiency?
Fortified milk.

[Enran]

I think you're mixing something up here. Realism doesn't matter in an RPG, verisimilitude does. From an actual scientific perspective, they probably don't get sunburns... Because sunburns are actually a response the body has developed to overexposure to the radiation of sunlight in order to avoid far worse things happening, and an underground race wouldn't have evolved to have this response. Thus, a drow in the sun would be super duper extremely susceptible to cancer and stuff, using "realism."

The "realism" answers would be "probably not for above reasons," and either "food sources high in vitamin D" or "their bodies aren't nearly as metabolically dependent upon vitamin D as human bodies." The fantasy verisimilitude answers, however, are most likely (though not necessarily, as the question "which things maintain verisimilitude?" is literally the highest possible end of the "your setting will vary" spectrum) "probably, that sounds sort of like what should happen to people who are never in the sun" and "this is a fantasy world and vitamins probably fall under the parts of science that don't fully apply."

[Mehangel]

Also, living underground their entire lives, how do they make up for vitamin D deficiency?

You do realize that mushrooms have been known to be high in Vitamin D. Thus it is plausible that denizens of the underdark to gain such nutrients from such fungi.

[Sagetim]

I'm DMing a Drow-heavy campaign and for realism purposes I'm wondering if Drow can get sunburn? If so, does their skin still go red?

Also, living underground their entire lives, how do they make up for vitamin D deficiency?

They don't suffer from a vitamin d deficiency because nutrition isn't a thing in dnd. You don't have profession (nutritionist) and you don't have knowledge (biology). The system was not made to model little details like that. Even if there are rules in 3.5 for starvation based on malnutirition and the effects thereof, those are the kind of rules that aren't going to be fun for most players to play with.

So, sunburns? maybe. You don't need to use a real world explanation for things. This is dnd, a game system where a bunch of elves got cursed by this, that, or the other god for being so evil that they just didn't want them on the surface anymore*. So if the elven sun god doesn't like drow, then it would make sense in a 'god did it' sort of way for drow to get sun burns super easily for daring to show their faces on the surface. By that same logic, normal elves would probably be immune to sun burns (though some of them would probably tan super well to make them more attractive because the elven sun god likes them).

*not true for all settings, but when I think Drow I tend to think Faerun type situation.

If you wanted, you could introduce a lot of little elements like that to a game to drive home the point that the game world does not operate by all the same rules as the real world. Thus, using real world logic isn't going to work in all situations, and trying to abuse the rules to make a peasant railgun may not work as they intend it to. As long as the game world has it's own consistent logic, everything should be fine with this approach.

[marphod]

How do they get Vitamin D?

This is your concern?

Not 'why does a race that lives underground have dark skin tones, when underground creatures usually are pasty-white in the real world'? Or 'How do they survive if they have a diet that does not include complete proteins?' Or 'What's with dual-wielding scimitars?'

---

Despite being called a Vitamin, Vitamin D is is a hormone that can be naturally produced by humans. In general, it is synthesized in the skin with exposure to UV B radiation, but some small amount is created independently. Vitamin D is not a Vitamin for all mammals, so even if the Underdark Radiation is insufficient to cause natural synthesis, it is entirely possible Drow use other means of synthesis within their metabolism.

[Sagetim]

How do they get Vitamin D?

This is your concern?

Not 'why does a race that lives underground have dark skin tones, when underground creatures usually are pasty-white in the real world'? Or 'How do they survive if they have a diet that does not include complete proteins?' Or 'What's with dual-wielding scimitars?'

---

Despite being called a Vitamin, Vitamin D is is a hormone that can be naturally produced by humans. In general, it is synthesized in the skin with exposure to UV B radiation, but some small amount is created independently. Vitamin D is not a Vitamin for all mammals, so even if the Underdark Radiation is insufficient to cause natural synthesis, it is entirely possible Drow use other means of synthesis within their metabolism.

To be fair this is still assuming that vitamin D is a thing that exists in DND. It doesn't have to. It could be that anything that falls into the category of food counts as good enough for the heroic metabolisms of beings in a dnd setting, that a manly diet of just steaks won't kill you in dnd because you will be getting all that you need from having eaten 'food'.

Now, I figure that most of the authors for dnd books (like the dragonlance series) wanted to have a level of realism in their books and have people suffer from malnutrition and poor diets and so on. But I don't recall anything in the player's handbook or DMG requiring things to work this way. I know that the players will assume that things work just like they do in real life. But in a dnd game, there are people who can say a word and kill you. There are people who can shake their money make for the amusement of a god and make the dead rise back to life because of it. There are people who can play songs that warp reality. I don't think we need to worry about Drow getting Vitamin D. :P

[ekarney]

How do they get Vitamin D?

This is your concern?

Not 'why does a race that lives underground have dark skin tones, when underground creatures usually are pasty-white in the real world'? Or 'How do they survive if they have a diet that does not include complete proteins?' Or 'What's with dual-wielding scimitars?'

---

Despite being called a Vitamin, Vitamin D is is a hormone that can be naturally produced by humans. In general, it is synthesized in the skin with exposure to UV B radiation, but some small amount is created independently. Vitamin D is not a Vitamin for all mammals, so even if the Underdark Radiation is insufficient to cause natural synthesis, it is entirely possible Drow use other means of synthesis within their metabolism.

It's just nice to know these things, I assumed the skin was either an evolution thing to help them blend in with their surroundings better or that it was a result of the curse, similar to the Dunmer in TES.

I assumed Vitamin D was one of those that exists in D&D but it's not ruled on, like a lot of physics things that whilst it's there, it doesn't have many/any relevant rules for the sake of not having more bookkeeping than you can shake a scimitar at. For example, in a poorer town I'll still tell my players the citizens look malnourished and sickly, despite there not being that many rules for malnourished commoners.

So if I could say "You see two sunburned Drow" the players could assume the Drow had been out in the sun for some time without protection from it.

Vitamin D was just a curiosity really, plus the image of a High Priestess of Lolth tending to her mushroom garden witth one hand and stabbing a noble with the other is quite amusing to me.

[Elandris Kajar]

the image of a High Priestess of Lolth tending to her mushroom garden witth one hand and stabbing a noble with the other is quite amusing to me.

This is hilarious.

[Sian]

more likely, the priestess would whip a slave into tending the mushroom garden faster while stabbing someone

[Keltest]

more likely, the priestess would whip a slave into tending the mushroom garden faster while stabbing someone

I think they would cut out the middleperson and just stab someone while letting someone else whip the slaves. Matrons and priestesses have better things to do than micromanage the labor. Like stab people.

[Red Fel]

Matrons and priestesses have better things to do than micromanage the labor. Like stab people.

And a relaxing Thursday afternoon was had by all.

[Psyren]

Whatever else they became, they're still elves. This means flawless hair, perfect teeth and no such thing as "vitamin deficiencies."

For the sunburn thing I'd assume a very dark red. Ironically, Drow are actually less susceptible to sunburn than other elves by RAW. Sandstorm:


Characters or creatures with naturally dark (or tanned) skin pigmentation are naturally resistant to sunburn. Such individuals can remain in the sun unprotected for 6 hours before becoming mildly sunburned, and for 12 hours before becoming severely sunburned.

They are however more susceptible to glare.

[The Viscount]

If we're assuming that whatever pigment makes the drow black works like melanin, then yes we would expect them to be highly resistant to sunburn as the above rules. You might extend it more considering how dark they are.

As for drow being dark despite living in caves, it actually is still biologically sound. Normally in caves, no animals can see, so pale coloration offers no disadvantage. However, the Underdark is different in that respect. Most denizens of the Underdark have darkvision, which is black and white. As such any pale creature would be at a strong disadvantage due to high visibility. Selection would thus push for colors that blend with the surrounding dark rock.

As for vitamin D, mild deficiency seems to be part of life for species without light exposure, so natural synthesis may be running at some baseline all the time, sufficient enough to get along. Other dietary sources include liver and eggs, but I don't know how available those things are for drow.

[Giggling Ghast]

Also, living underground their entire lives, how do they make up for vitamin D deficiency?

Spider milk.

Don't ... don't ask which spiders give milk, or how. The answer to that question has driven more than one surfacer insane.

[Sapreaver]

Spider milk.

Don't ... don't ask which spiders give milk, or how. The answer to that question has driven more than one surfacer insane.

...They are a matriarchal society....

[Telonius]

So the D is for Drow? :smalleek:

Driven insane, indeed.

[atemu1234]

I think the mushroom coupled with natural synthesis is a sound interpretation. As sound as I'm willing to go with this, anyways.

[SinsI]

I think you're mixing something up here. Realism doesn't matter in an RPG, verisimilitude does. From an actual scientific perspective, they probably don't get sunburns... Because sunburns are actually a response the body has developed to overexposure to the radiation of sunlight in order to avoid far worse things happening, and an underground race wouldn't have evolved to have this response. Thus, a drow in the sun would be super duper extremely susceptible to cancer and stuff, using "realism."

The "realism" answers would be "probably not for above reasons," and either "food sources high in vitamin D" or "their bodies aren't nearly as metabolically dependent upon vitamin D as human bodies." The fantasy verisimilitude answers, however, are most likely (though not necessarily, as the question "which things maintain verisimilitude?" is literally the highest possible end of the "your setting will vary" spectrum) "probably, that sounds sort of like what should happen to people who are never in the sun" and "this is a fantasy world and vitamins probably fall under the parts of science that don't fully apply."
Underdark is full of (magical) radiation, so their skin color might be a response to that.

[ekarney]

Spider milk.

Don't ... don't ask which spiders give milk, or how. The answer to that question has driven more than one surfacer insane.

Don't the Kuo-Toa have a tidal calendar that's apparently so lucid that people who try to read it are driven insane?

I think that combined with iirc, the fact that drow very rarely rest due to not measuring time, and are near mad from sleep deprivation and stimulants.


Yeah, I don't wanna know, now more than ever.

[Darrin]

I'm DMing a Drow-heavy campaign and for realism purposes I'm wondering if Drow can get sunburn?

No, due mostly to Iron Heart Surge.

[Yogibear41]

You assume that because Humans need Vitamin D that Drow or even elves in general do as well?

[Drelua]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading something about drow falling asleep on the surface with skin exposed to the sun while they were on raids and waking up with such terrible sunburns that they basically had to be sent home. I'm pretty sure it was a Drizzt book (don't judge me), and therefore somewhat canonical for Faerun, but there's a small chance it may have been bad internet fanfic (okay fine, you can judge me).

[atemu1234]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading something about drow falling asleep on the surface with skin exposed to the sun while they were on raids and waking up with such terrible sunburns that they basically had to be sent home. I'm pretty sure it was a Drizzt book (don't judge me), and therefore somewhat canonical for Faerun, but there's a small chance it may have been bad internet fanfic (okay fine, you can judge me).

No judgement. Just curiosity.

[ericgrau]

Go with verisimilitude, which is realistic-ish.

Sunburn is from UV damaging the skin, so yes they get sunburned. They have dark skin pigment which absorbs some, reducing the damage. They probably don't get tanned that much if at all, because that's a defense against UV. They aren't in the sun much and aren't made to handle it well. But they do go outside so they aren't super vulnerable to UV either. Basically they are ok at handling sunburns but can't acclimate as well as other races to long periods of time in the sun by developing a base tan.

The real world has creatures that don't see the light too. Deep sea fish are incapable of making vitamin D from sunlight, since they are never exposed to it, and instead get it from their diet. Drow might require mushrooms or meat that was exposed to the sun or some such. They may enjoy eating liver.

The Egyptian fruit bat doesn't get sun exposure and seems to get almost no vitamin D from its diet. It handles this by being very efficient with the very little vitamin D that it does get: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/10628750_Vitamin_D_metabolism_in_a_frugivorous_noc turnal_mammal_the_Egyptian_fruit_bat_%28Rousettus_ aegyptiacus%29
If drow have trouble getting vitamin D from their diet then they could handle it the same way.

tldr: They probably won't get many sunburns unless spending long periods in the sun. They probably don't like the desert areas and cloak themselves heavily in those areas, but are otherwise usually fine. Don't worry about vitamin D at all, they'll manage ok there.

[Giggling Ghast]

...They are a matriarchal society....

This ain't your kinky fanfic, Sapreaver!

*Thinks about drow society*

no wait, maybe it is

[Threadnaught]

I'm DMing a Drow-heavy campaign and for realism purposes I'm wondering if Drow can get sunburn?

Don't be like Itok, this game is not real nor is it a simulation of reality, which is why realism is the last thing you should be looking for.
Verisimilitude, yes they do because nearly everything does. Especially Vampires.

[nedz]

Also, living underground their entire lives, how do they make up for vitamin D deficiency?

D is for Dwarf:

A Dwarf a day keeps the Doctor away.

[LoyalPaladin]

Spider milk.

Don't ... don't ask which spiders give milk, or how. The answer to that question has driven more than one surfacer insane.
Suddenly, I don't feel well.


D is for Dwarf:

A Dwarf a day keeps the Doctor away.
Suddenly, I feel even worse.

[Tiri]

Suddenly, I feel even worse.

Trying to eat a whole dwarf would probably make many people feel a bit ill.

[atemu1234]

Trying to eat a whole dwarf would probably make many people feel a bit ill.

Hey, pickled dwarf liver (otherwise known as dwarf liver) is a delicious meal! Just make sure you get it from a Good-Aligned dwarf, because otherwise it just spoils the flavor. And don't forget the fava beans and a nice chianti.