You get to be evil and a gnome, but what class?

[killem2]

So i'm prepping character ideas for the new evil ap from paizo.

I've yet to really dig into what gnomes do well in Pathfinder, what would be your suggestions?

[Geddy2112]

Statwise, gnomes make good bards and sorcerers, but also decent illusionist wizards, cavaliers and paladins. I personally like alchemist gnomes, using the sabatuer subtype for the "evil guy who blows everything up" trope.

[NomGarret]

Pretty good summoners, too. Especially evil if the eidolon occasionally whispers "help me."

[Amphetryon]

Cross-Blooded Sorcerer, Arcane & Shadow.

[Urpriest]

Don't gnomes also have a really broken insult-based feat, for Ninjas? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

[killem2]

Statwise, gnomes make good bards and sorcerers, but also decent illusionist wizards, cavaliers and paladins. I personally like alchemist gnomes, using the sabatuer subtype for the "evil guy who blows everything up" trope.

After looking up that trope, I'm wondering how many constructs we'll be put up agaist. It is interesting though. Illusionust looks really fun. Paladin and Cavalier though? Aren't those melee? I'm not doubting you, I just thought melee and small classes were a no no.


Pretty good summoners, too. Especially evil if the eidolon occasionally whispers "help me."

I'm not sure I understand. I tried digging into this and found nothing that links gnomes to summoners.


Cross-Blooded Sorcerer, Arcane & Shadow.

Getting stealth as a sorcerer huh? That's pretty sweet. I can see where that is going. Really lets me play a decent class, but also lets me be a gnome for any and all RP stuff.


Don't gnomes also have a really broken insult-based feat, for Ninjas? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

I couldn't tell ya, I haven't dug into gnomes much. :\

[ericgrau]

Statwise, gnomes make good bards and sorcerers, but also decent illusionist wizards, cavaliers and paladins. I personally like alchemist gnomes, using the sabatuer subtype for the "evil guy who blows everything up" trope.

Good oracles too IIRC.

[Doorhandle]

Don't gnomes also have a really broken insult-based feat, for Ninjas? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

Yep: it works for monks too.


Have to succeed on a bluff check according to errata, but that's probably pretty easy... (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/bewildering-koan-general)

[Brova]

Pathfinder is backwards compatible with 3.5, right? Just go Shadowcraft Mage. You get all the random goodies Pathfinder gives Wizards, and you get to do obscene things with Shadow Illusion major creation.

[killem2]

How about necromancy? Is that still a decent school in pathfinder?

[ericgrau]

Animate dead is still the same, and they even added a lesser version to give you something to do a spell level sooner. One of my favorite spells ray of enfeeblement got nerfed. Finger of death got nerfed so I'm guessing other SoDs may have been too. Enervation is the same. Dunno about feat options.

[Geddy2112]

Paladin and Cavalier though? Aren't those melee? I'm not doubting you, I just thought melee and small classes were a no no.

On paper, yes small classes don't like to be frontliners, but Gnomes are small and therefore can get medium sized mounts. Having a bonus to constitution and a +1 to AC for size helps you rush in and tank. You won't do as much damage, but a lancer of either is going to do a lot on the charge. The charisma bonus helps paladins more than cavaliers here, but you have to wait for your mount till level 5. That said, the divine bond is much better than a standard mount.


Yep: it works for monks too.


Have to succeed on a bluff check according to errata, but that's probably pretty easy... (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/bewildering-koan-general)
It is better for ninja-they have bluff as a class skill, and use charisma instead of wanting to dump it down a well like a monk. Still a good feat for either.

[Spore]

A friend of mine made a very intimidating Halfing but his concept is easily ported to a gnome. But his backstory is linked to the afterlife of said campaign. If you die you will slowly but surely fade into some sort of river of souls (similar to the Wall in Faerun). You can port this to any setting if your character doesnt worship any god.

Basically he was an egotistical (arcane) sorcerer that led a band of mercenaries who help a half fiend red dragon into ruling the entire continent. He died once and was forgotten for years until he was forcefully ripped from the river of souls. His mind melded with thousands of other souls, different people struggling to control his body, thousand voices in his head, a million memories fading before his eye. This drove him mad and towards necromancy. He also possesses an artifact that never lets him die (possibly cursed so he cant remove it).

He is caught in eternal torment on this realm, is obviously mad and only bringing others down to his level and the feeling of killing people makes him a bit happier. We use a homebrew system of blood magic as well (I think Paizo or at least Wizards had something very similar) that allows the player to sacrifice Con points of victims instead of gold for spells like Wish or Greater Planar Ally. A few dozen captives easily pay for a CR 15+ demon assisting him.

[dysike]

I played an evil gnome cleric of a god of death once.

He was an entertaining character, I used the method of roleplaying him of; when unsure which path to take, take the one which allows me to kill the most people.

Since no one in the group was willing to take charge the other players saw me always making quick decisions and assumed I knew what I was doing, I didn't but they followed after me.

[Ssalarn]

Gnome cavaliers can be really nasty. Sure, you lose 2 points of damage, but it's generally more then made up for by the fact that your Medium mount doesn't run into the maneuverability issues that Large mounts sometimes do. Antipaladin also works, and could give you a reason to use Channel Smite.

Gnomes make really solid Summoners as well. Getting bonuses to Con and Cha means that they have bonuses to their primary casting stat and are naturally tougher, which combined with their bonus to AC from being Small means that it's harder to play "ignore the eidolon and kill the squishy guy with the matching tattoo". If you wanted to, you can turn your eidolon into a flying mount at relatively low levels since you don't have to wait for it to get a size increase, then you have your gnome sit up on top of it with a longspear and do the mounted combat thing, which can be very effective and helps protect both the Summoner and Eidolon.

[Spore]

Gnomes make really solid Summoners as well.

I have always liked the idea of the ubercharging summoner riding his mount. Even with a onehanded lance and a shield you can deal significant damage and because you are near your eidolon at all times and your spell list contains the best AC buffs there are you can do an AC of 40+ at 10th level easily. Get ranks in Ride and the feat that allows you to block two hits on your mount with a Ride check and be nearly immune to physical harm.

Buffing your saves with levels of Antipaladin and your elemental resistance with your other summoner spells makes you a quick flying fortress.

[killem2]

So after some long consideration, I am going to go summoner. I am also probably just going to go human unless I can find a really convincing reason to go gnome. The summoner is such a feat starved class that it seems like getting that extra feat is going to go a long way.

Master Summoner of course, I want to have minions galore as well as focus on having my Eidolon using UMD. :smallredface:

[Psyren]

Yep: it works for monks too.


Have to succeed on a bluff check according to errata, but that's probably pretty easy... (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/bewildering-koan-general)

Note that a possible interpretation of the "bluff check" line is that the other restrictions of bluff apply - e.g. the target has to be intelligent and able to understand you etc.

[Jergmo]

What about an evil gnomish Beguiler?

You utilize the gnomish racial for Illusions and you can use Enchantment to get minions!

[sovin_ndore]

I would go melee. There are a huge number of 'giant slayer' feats across 3.5 and the Blade Bravo PrC is AMAZING (Basically look through Races of Stone). The best part is that most of these abilities apply to medium sized creatures if you can go down a size category or so (reduce person?)... So much potential.

The tiny evil mastermind; the sword bearing protagonist; there are so many beautiful archetypes fulfilled with this premise.

[tadkins]

Had an idea for a fey-bloodline gnomish sorceress that I'd love to play in an evil game one day. Would be totally based around charming and battlefield control.

[Myou]

Garden....

[Spore]

So after some long consideration, I am going to go summoner. I am also probably just going to go human unless I can find a really convincing reason to go gnome. The summoner is such a feat starved class that it seems like getting that extra feat is going to go a long way.

Weirdly enough I haven't seen how Summoners are feat starved. There is not one necessary feat to make your class WORK. It works fine in its entirety all alone.

A Bow Ranger is feat starved because he doesn't deal damage without feats.
An ubercharger is feat starved because his mount is killed easily without the right feats or his maneuverability is too poor.

But a Summoner feat starved? Sure there are a lot of nice options for feats but a pure casting/summoning focussed summoner is entirely fine with Superior Summoning and Augment Summoning (one of which the Master Summoner gets for free plus omitting the useful but too expensive Spell focus Conjuration).

[enderlord99]

Garden....

That is not a class. That is a subrace.