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lacesmcawesome
2007-05-06, 04:00 PM
Hi, this is my first attempt at anything home brewed at all. Please be gentle. I'm pretty sure that this class is overpowered a bit, and in need of level adjustment. Keep in mind that it's my first attempt, and at the time of its creation, I only had the PHB available.

Onwards, then:
The Pillaging Warrior

The barbaric warriors of the sea are drawn to their lifestyle for the power, wealth, and excitement. They are the terror of all seaside village inhabitants.

Adventures: Pillaging warriors tend to adventure to hone their skills, and they love destroying and raiding small villages to keep such skills sharp. they have no interest in large cities, though, due to the heavy presence of government officials who would like to execute the pillagers. However, some pillagers may travel to the cities to exact revenge of a brother, fallen at the hands of some soldier.

Characteristics: Pillaging Warriors are almost always the aggressors in a conflict. They have low-tolerance for learned members of society. Modern technology tends to frighten them, and they are known for destroying that which they fear.

Alignment: Chaotic evil

Religion: Most pillagers have no religion, as they pride themselves in their individual abilites, and have no use for Gods. Those who do choose a religion tend to worship Erythnul (God of Slaughter), as they can relate him to themselves.

Background: Most pillagers come from long families of seafaring warriors. Their traditional mode of travel and attack is by sea, indicating that most hail from islands or seaside towns.

Races: Most pillagers tend to be either half-orcs or humans.

Role: A pillager's role in a party could be as a main striker. They love to fight, and do well in the point position, though in that position they may start many more conflicts than needed, attacking random strangers for a look they deem disrespectful. Pillagers are bad diplomats and thinkers. Still, any party traveling with a pillager may get more cooperation, fear, or even gifts from a person or village, due to the fear of the large pillager.

Pillaging Warrior
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+2| Fast movement, Quickstrike

2nd|
+3|
+3|
+0|
+2| bloodlust 1/day

3rd|
+3|
+4|
+0|
+3|Bloodlust 1/day for 2 rounds

4th|
+4|
+4|
+0|
+3|Rally Minions

5th|
+5|
+5|
+1|
+4|Damage Reduction 1/-

6th|
+7/+0|
+6|
+2|
+4|bonus feat

7th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+2|
+4|Rally Minions +1 minion

8th|
+8/+4|
+9|
+3|
+5|exotic weapon proficiency feat

9th|
+8/+6|
+9|
+3|
+5|Damage Reduction 3/-

10th|
+10/+8|
+10|
+3|
+5|

11th|
+10/+9/+0|
+12|
+3|
+5|Bloodlust 2/day 2 rounds

12th|
+11/+10/+4|
+12|
+4|
+6|Rally Minions 4 rounds

13th|
+13/+10/+5|
+12|
+4|
+6|

14th|
+14/+10/+6|
+12|
+5|
+7|

15th|
+15/+11/+7/+1|
+12|
+5|
+7|Damage Reduction 5/-

16th|
+16/+11/+7/+2|
+12|
+5|
+7|Terrorize

17th|
+17/+12/+9/+2|
+13|
+5|
+7|Damage reduction 6/-

18th|
+18/+12/+11/+3|
+13|
+5|
+7|

19th|
+18/+13/+13/+4|
+13|
+5|
+8|Rally Minions 5 rounds

20th|
+18/+15/+14/+6|
+13|
+5|
+8|
[/table]

Abilities: Strenth and consititution are the most important skills for pillaging warriors, sine they rely so heavily on heir brute strengt, and they have great determination.

Alignment: chaotic evil

Hit die: d10

Class skills: climb, handle animal, hide, intimidate, jump, listen, ride, survival, swim
Skill points at 1st level: (5 + INT modifier) X 4
Skill points at each additional level: 4 + INT modifier

Class Features:
Weapon Proficiency: Pillagers are proficient with simple and martial weapons, light armor, meadium armor, heavy armor, and shileds (except tower shields)

Fast movement: A Pillaging Warrior has faster speed than his races normal speed. His speed is increased by 10 feat. This is only applied when wearing light or medium armor, and when he carries no shield or medium load.

Quickstrike: since pillagers are normally always the aggressors, they gain a +5 initiative bonus. B

Bloodlust: Starting at level 2, a pillager is able to acuire bloodlust, which adds +1 to his damage. bloodlust can be used 1/day at first, and only lasts 1 round. When in a state of bloodlust, he loses control, and any attack roll 10 and under deals 1d4+1(per level) damage to himself.

Rally Minions: At 4th level, a pillaging warrior can roll a diplomacy check (DC10- CHA modifier) and rally minions to help in battle. The number of minions is the same as the character's charisma modifier. Minons have the same stats as NPC warriors and are only level 1. This can only be used when there are NPCs in a 1-mile radius. Minions last for 3 rounds, and can't be called again for 24 hours. If they move 100 feet away from the PC, they are no longer under his control.

Exotic weapon proficiency: At 8th level, a pillaging warrior gains the feat Exotic weapon proficiency.

Terrorize: At 16th level, a pillaging warrior can terrorize his enemies. Their AC is lowered by 3, unless they succeed in a will save against a pillager's intimidate check.



A few other notes.
I originally created this class to be an enemy at level 1, and a BBEG at level 4. I really liked the class, and decided it would be a pretty cool player class. I realize it's heavily overpowered, but it was meant to be a huge challenge for my players.

I'm thinking an LA +2 maybe? Maybe even higher.

Please be gentle.

Hazkali
2007-05-06, 04:20 PM
Okay, I'm not qutie sure why you considered this to be overpowered. It is anything but!!!

Some points:


Bloodlust is much less powerful than Barbarian's rage. Much, much less powerful.
Having an odd number of skill points per level (and a difference between those gained at 1st level and at further levels) are things that aren't normally done in D+D. I would change it to (4 + int)x4 at 1st level.
Rally minions is equally underpowered. By 6th level, the fact that you're summoning 1st level warriors is almost negligable compared to the challenges you will face. By 20th level, it is pointless.
Damage Reduction- Okay, but the progression might be a bit too powerful, starting at 5th level. Again, check out the barbarian for inspiration.
Terrorise is similar to intimidating opponents in combat, for which there are already rules (and which can be done starting at 1st level)
You also haven't stated which abilities are extrodinary, supernatural or spell-like, or their respective activation times.

Okay, that's a loooong list of negative stuff. How can it be improved?

Bloodlust is similar to rage. If you want something different to the Barbarian's rage mechanic, then maybe make it a bonus that applies in certain circumstances, e.g. the Pillager deals +2 damage for each full 20% of his hit points that are reduced.
Rally Minions is a good idea, but where do they come from? If they're just assorted hangers-on, the Leadership feat (DMG) is a better option. However, it could be that the pillaging warrior is able to call planar minions, say d4 +2 of his (Pillager Level -3) that last for a number of rounds similar to a summoning spell of an appropriate level?

It's not brilliant, but then nobody's first attempts at homebrewing are.
Good luck! :smallbiggrin:

If you'e just after something quickly, then maybe try the Mercenary class I designed. It's supposed to represent the sort of brutal warrior you're after. [/shameless plug]

lacesmcawesome
2007-05-06, 04:26 PM
Good points, I forgot about their poor specials. I remember now that once I took a look at the first draft, it *was* really overpowered (I had included some abilities that would make him a super warrior and stuff) Then I changed a few things, lowered some bonuses, and gave him sub-par specials to even it out a bit. I still had the mindset that he was too powerful, I guess.

Tengu
2007-05-06, 04:27 PM
Sorry, but I really see no reason at all why wouldn't a barbarian with specific feats chosen work instead of this class.

Also, you have the BAB, saves and skill points wrong.

Innis Cabal
2007-05-06, 04:32 PM
same as Tengu....nice class but i could make it better with one of the class's arlready out there

lacesmcawesome
2007-05-06, 04:32 PM
Sorry, but I really see no reason at all why wouldn't a barbarian with specific feats chosen work instead of this class.

Also, you have the BAB, saves and skill points wrong.

I didn't want this class instead of a barbarian. I just wanted to expand on some of the enemies from a campaign I wrote. I liked the enemies that I had created, so decided to give them a bigger description.

Hazkali
2007-05-06, 04:38 PM
Also, you have the BAB, saves and skill points wrong.

I'm afraid Tengu's right- I just skip over those things normally.

When designing a class, you have to make sure the Base Attack Bonus and Base Save Bonusses follow the charts presented at the start of section in the Player's handbook for classes. This is basically to keep a standard system and so that classes can be easily comapared.

In this instance, the "Good" base attack bonus is best for this class. That gives a BAB of +1 per level, i.e. a nice progression of BAB = Level. Saves are harder to work out, but in this instance it would be best if Fortitude had a "good" save and the other two "poor", in line with other martially orientated character classes (Note in this case, 'Good' doesn't mean +1 per level).



Sorry, but I really see no reason at all why wouldn't a barbarian with specific feats chosen work instead of this class.
Tengu's wording is a little harsh, but he does have a fair point. The class you're after seems very close to the archetype that the Barbarian class is supposed to represent. However, in the background you make mention to their seafaring abilities (Vikings, anyone?) so this is something you could emphasise in a revision.

lacesmcawesome
2007-05-06, 04:42 PM
When designing a class, you have to make sure the Base Attack Bonus and Base Save Bonusses follow the charts presented at the start of section in the Player's handbook for classes. This is basically to keep a standard system and so that classes can be easily comapared.


Oh...

woops. I actually had never read that part. :smalleek: Should have looked at that more closely. Sorry guys. I'll definitely keep that in mind in the future, and next time I'll do a lot more reading before trying to make my own class.

brian c
2007-05-06, 04:54 PM
Hm... okay, just nitpicky stuff first:

Whats up with your BAB? Did you do it like that on purpose? The "high" base attack progression is
+1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6/+1
+7/+2
+8/+3
...
+11/+6/+1
etc.

The save progressions are off too; look at the Guide to Homebrewing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313) for general information on stuff like that. A "good" save progression is 2 + level/2, and a "poor" save progression is level/3. Good saves are +12 at level 20, poor saves are +6. It seems from the fluff that these guys should have Good Fort, and Poor Ref and Will saves.

Also, as Hazkali said, skill points is generally an even number, so 4+Int would be the norm (although melee-oriented classes can generally ge tby with 2+Int)

I like the idea that you have, don't get me wrong, just your mechanics need to be sorted out a little. It's pretty much a viking- a more badass version of the barbarian.

About your specific abilities:

Fast movement is fine; just like the barbarian ability, works well for this class too.

Quickstrike: Usually bonuses like this are even numbers; my suggestion is either give them Improved Initiative as a bonus feat at first level (+4 initiative, and lets them qualify for other feats) or make it a scaling bonus. Say at 1st level they get +2 initiative, at 6th level it goes up to +4, at 11th it goes up to +6 or something like that.

Bloodlust is, as mentioned, very underpowered compared to Rage, especially in the duration. It might be easier to just use Rage or Frenzy, but if you really want it to be a different ability then the duration needs to be longer (perhaps linked to Con like Rage is) and the benefit needs to be greater. +1 to damage isn't very much at all- an interesting idea would be that his weapon gets the Wounding property (anyone hit by it continues to take damage from bleeding), but that might be difficult to balance.

Rally Minions: sorry, but this seems rather useless. Level 1 warriors do absolutely nothing, especially since you can't use this ability until 4th level. I'm thinking that you could replace this with some sort of battle cry maybe? The pillager gives a ferocious yell and his allies gain a +2 morale bous to attack rolls and damage rolls for the next (Cha mod + 2) rounds. Just a suggestion though; rally minions could still be workable if the minions scaled in level.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency: In what weapon? Any weapon they choose? You should specify this.

Terrorize: as Hazkali said, there are already rules for intimidating your opponent to make them shaken (-1 to all rolls). Maybe Terrorize lets you make an Intimidate check as a free action (it's normally a move action, so you can't intimidate and then full-attack), and then at a higher level Greater Terrorize lets you Intimidate multiple foes or gives you a bonus to Intimidate checks.

Damage Reduction: It's a bit strong, and I'd like to mention here that your ability progressions seem a bit random. You have DR increasing at levels 5, 9,15 and 17, and you go right from 1/- to 3/-. I'd suggest that it increases at levels 5,10,15,20 from 1/- up to 4/-. That's good, but it's not unbalanced.

Bonus feat: You only give them one bonus feat, and don't specify what feats can be chosen. If you look at existing classes, Fighters get a lot of bonus feats that they can choose from the Fighter Bonus Feat list (ie any Feat that says "A fighter can choose this as a bonus feat"). Monks gain bonus feats at levels 1,2, and 6, each time given a choice between two different feats. Try to use one of those models for the Pillaging Warrior.


That covers pretty much everything. I'm sorry if I said a lot, don't take it the wrong way: I really like the class, but since it's your first time home-brewing you haven't quite gotten the hang of the way abilities progress and things like that yet. Also, you mention level adjustment: LA is for races and templates, not classes. For example, a Half-Ogre has a level adjustment of +2, and would make a very good Pillaging Warrior. A Half-Ogre with 1 level in Pillaging Warrior has LA +2, meaning that it's ECL (effective character level) is 1+2=3, it's about as strong as a 3rd level character should be.

Hazkali
2007-05-06, 04:58 PM
No worries. I mean, it just keeps the symmetry of the game together. It is never explicitly written Thou Shalt Only Use Standard Base Attack Bonuses (to my knowledge) but that is how it's just always done.

What is important is that you've tried your hand at homebrewing! An estimated 73.4% of gamers* have never tried making their own stuff, just relying on the stuff printed by WotC. Making your own stuff is a joy and a challenge and can be really great for flavouring (or spicing...) up a campaign.



*63.5% of all statistics are made up

lacesmcawesome
2007-05-06, 04:59 PM
No worries. I mean, it just keeps the symmetry of the game together. It is never explicitly written Thou Shalt Only Use Standard Base Attack Bonuses (to my knowledge) but that is how it's just always done.

What is important is that you've tried your hand at homebrewing! An estimated 73.4% of gamers* have never tried making their own stuff, just relying on the stuff printed by WotC. Making your own stuff is a joy and a challenge and can be really great for flavouring (or spicing...) up a campaign.



*63.5% of all statistics are made up

Hah, thanks man.
Is there a difference between flavouring and spicing up a campaign?

Hazkali
2007-05-06, 05:01 PM
When you spice up a campaign, you make your players sweat....

:smallbiggrin:

Spiryt
2007-05-06, 05:36 PM
Here are my suggestions:

- with all respect, Rally minions is complete crap. It's rather uselles and also
quite dumb. Where they came from? Why they should be there? 1mile-
how he rally them? Telepathy? Mobile phone?
I will give him some nice bonuses when he is charging/attacking together
with someone else instead
- Does fast movement stack with barbarian one ? Anyway I will remove fast mov. and quickstrike from 1rst level and put it on higher ones. Otherwise it would be perfect class to take one level in.
- Bloodlust: + 1 to damage is not much. Trow away this strange "damage to himself" and give it longer duration. Maybe even whole ecounter? It looks like state which will end only its all over.

Maybe this class should be more general : "brigant", "marauder". You could add some stuff that improves suprise attacks. It will fit well.
I like the class but, like others said it need work.:smallwink:

Wardog
2007-05-07, 02:08 PM
I apologise in advance, because this will probably seem to be mostly criticism, and I know it can be downheartening when you put effort into an idea only for it to be criticised.

But the thing is, I don't really see much point to this class. It just seems to be a slightly modified barbarian, and as such, you could achieve the same effect by just creating a few new barbarian feats. (And/or possibly tweaking the barbarian rules).

Don't think I'm picking on you, though, as I think there are a lot of other classes and PrC out there that have the same problem, including several official ones. E.g. the samurai ("Its like a fighter, but instead of bonus feats, it gets several substandard versions of feats a fighter could take anyway, and a couple of things like Staredown that there's no obvious reason that only a samurai could do them. And it has to Role-play a certain code of conduct.")