PAO Shenanigans

[Cerefel]

Can anyone help me find a 3.5 monster that has 19+ int, fewer than 20 HD, and preferably enough in common with a playable race that it qualifies for a permanent duration of Polymorph Any Object? This is mainly a theoretical exercise, but I think it could have interesting story implications for something like a BBEG

[rockdeworld]

Sarrukh has 16 14 HD and 30 int and is humanoid (thus same kingdom), medium (same size). Related if and only if you are a reptilian race (created to creator).

I hear Assume Supernatural Ability is a feat you might want if you choose that race.

If it helps, you can use PAO twice to get permanent duration. The second casting uses your new form for comparison. If you decide to do that, a Black Ethergaunt has 31 Int.

(Sarrukh are found in Serpent Kingdoms)

[Cerefel]

Thank you! I don't have a ton of book access so this is really helpful. Also, I didn't realize the polymorph line of spells actually gave the creature type for the new form.

[Sagetim]

Sarrukh has 16 14 HD and 30 int and is humanoid (thus same kingdom), medium (same size). Related if and only if you are a reptilian race (created to creator).

I hear Assume Supernatural Ability is a feat you might want if you choose that race.

If it helps, you can use PAO twice to get permanent duration. The second casting uses your new form for comparison. If you decide to do that, a Black Ethergaunt has 31 Int.

(Sarrukh are found in Serpent Kingdoms)

Wouldn't the second spell unravel when the duration of the first spell expires, since the second spell is predicated on the notion of being whatever creature type the first casting made you?

[Cerefel]

Polymorph Any Object changes the subject's creature type, so the first casting expiring after the fact is made moot by the fact that the second casting changed the creature type permanently. It's sort of a DM call, but to be safe one could possibly find something else to use as an in-between step that is similar enough to both forms that both castings are permanent

[Sagetim]

Well, it's kind of like building a house, then taking the walls and supports out and expecting the roof to stay up despite a lack of support structure because you already built the walls. I know magic can work that way, but I know that as a DM I wouldn't let someone get away with that. Each one that you've built on would have to be permanent for the last one to stick.

Continuing that logic, because the duration is permanent all the stacks of PAO would be dispellable, and if you had multiple ones stacked up in a chain to keep you permanently as some thing, breaking one of them in the chain would break the ones further in the chain.

So, for example, if you wanted to go from human to dragon, you could go from human to medium sized dragon of the type you want with a +5 for same kingdom (animal), +2 for same size, and +2 for same or lower intelligence. Then you would stack the second PAO on that with +5 same kingdom, +2 same class +2 related for whatever larger size category of dragon you wanted to go for. One of the problems here is that if your intelligence drops below that of the smaller dragon form (such as from int damage or drain), wouldn't the +2 for the duration factor disappear and reduce the duration of the first PAO to 1 week? Then again, if that were a problem, the 'same size' factor would probably have been eliminated with the casting of the second PAO, resulting in the same drop in duration for the first PAO down to 1 week. And...hm. Stacking PAO seems like something of a mess.

[Cerefel]

Stacking PAO seems like something of a mess.

Agreed, but it also seems to largely be a DM issue. Now wanna try to figure out how to make PAO impossible to dispel? :smalltongue:

My main ideas are caster level boosting to the point of a practically unbeatable check, or for targeted dispels some kind of full-body covering to break line of effect

[Sagetim]

Well, circle magic can help with that, but if you do so you're going to be putting yourself in a pinch if you go up against a truenamer with spell rebirth. One truenaming check later and your highest level spell is eliminated. No opposed caster checks, just...bam, gone.

Spell resistance would help, as would having other buffs in place to take hits for your PAO's. If I recall correctly, dispels tend to target highest caster level spells first, so you might want to have some higher caster level spells stuck in place to take the hit first. I can't recall the name of it, but I'm fairly certain that 3.5 has a spell that specifically acts as a buffer between an incoming dispel and the rest of your active spells and buffs. It might be called Dispelling Buffer, even. So if you're going to do high level spell shenanigans, start with that. I think you can only have one copy of the spell running at once, but if you were particularly paranoid, you could have a quickened one up your sleeve to put it back up at a moment's notice. You might be able to shenanigan your way into somehow casting the quickened one as an immediate action/reaction. I Think you could prepare your swift action to recast it on the condition that it gets dispelled/shut down, but I may be wrong about how prepared actions work.

Whatever the case, wearing a necklace of adaptation and a ring of feather fall would probably be handy. Because if you're underwater or high in the air when someone kills your PAO, you don't want to be SOL.

[DarkSonic1337]

Cast PaO as a supernatural ability with Dweomerkeeper. Now it cannot be dispelled,

[Cerefel]

Cast PaO as a supernatural ability with Dweomerkeeper. Now it cannot be dispelled,

Excellent idea! Now I'm thinking of some character having transformed into a sarrukh via double PAO wearing a Hat of Disguise to look like their pre-transformation self so nobody is the wiser. If the character walks into an AMF nothing appears to change (assuming the hat isn't disguised as a different kind of headwear, although it would be hilarious to just see a character walking along when suddenly their hat changes... into a different kind of hat!)