Wrecan and Vel: Long-term characters?

[AstralFire]

I haven't seen anyone bring this up, and I did a quick search for their names, but I haven't been around much -- so I apologize if I missed a major discussion somewhere.

Does anyone think that Not-Durkon and Belkar are about to leave the party for the rest of the "campaign" and be replaced with these two?

- They're fairly high level, of similar classes and capabilities.
- Favored Souls are easier to write around than Clerics; they are much weaker. I know Mr. Burlew only considers the mechanics a teensy bit, but that seems like a likely reason Veldrina was made a Favored Soul rather than a Cleric that was just too low level to cast resurrection.
- Mid-campaign character replacement is something that happens in long-running games. Again, the comic's not about D&D jokes anymore, but we still get them now and then.
- Not-Durkon's latest moves are anything but subtle, and I don't see him staying long-term at this point. Things will just look too suspicious for Roy as it stands.
- Veldrina would make Hayley no longer the only female member of the party.
- Wrecan's grumpy enough and Veldrina's intelligent-but-not-all-there personality would make for good dynamics with the rest of the party long-term.

The biggest reason that I'm not sure about it is that Wrecan is pretty similar to Roy in concept -- intelligent fighter -- but I get the impression that he's a bit older, so there's room for more differentiation in personality down the road.

[NerdyKris]

Veldrina is someone else's character, so the odds of her being a major part of the story are low. The creator of her bought a walk on cameo, which Rich expanded to a more major role since she could fill that slot without hurting the story. For her to stick around, the creator would have to be handing over complete creative control to Rich.

On top of that, Rich has had the story planned out since Dorukon's dungeon. It's impossible for him to have planned for a character that would show up due to a pledge drive eight years later.

[AstralFire]

Veldrina is someone else's character, so the odds of her being a major part of the story are low. The creator of her bought a walk on cameo, which Rich expanded to a more major role since she could fill that slot without hurting the story. For her to stick around, the creator would have to be handing over complete creative control to Rich.

On top of that, Rich has had the story planned out since Dorukon's dungeon. It's impossible for him to have planned for a character that would show up due to a pledge drive eight years later.

Oh, I was not aware. Shame; I really like them both.

[hroþila]

On top of that, Rich has had the story planned out since Dorukon's dungeon. It's impossible for him to have planned for a character that would show up due to a pledge drive eight years later.
Not that I think Veldrina will join the Order, but it should be noted that she's currently fulfilling a pre-existing (sketched) role for which the Giant would have created a character eventually if Veldrina hadn't come along.

[BaronOfHell]

It's impossible for him to have planned for a character that would show up due to a pledge drive eight years later.

I think you underestimate how cunning giants can be.

[Shining Wrath]

Rich may well have planned for Durkon to be replaced by someone at this point in the story, and given the fan response to Veldrina, she's a good candidate. That is, a divine caster was going to be added here, and by blind luck, the Kickstarter winner wanted a divine caster.

Rich is good enough to weave that in and make it look like he planned it

As for Belkar - I haven't seen X-eyed SSGoW yet.

[NerdyKris]

The original character was not planned out. Rich said as much when people asked about Veldrina that he only knew he had to get them to the Godsmoot, and didn't have the how planned out, and that's why Veldrina fit. A regular vanilla cleric capable of matching Durkon would have been able to raise him back at the town.

And I highly doubt Rich is going to have someone else's character stick around as a member of the team. How much money would that creator get for their character? Does he refund the Kickstarter reward since he's now paying them for the character? What percentage of the profits from various merchandise do they get? What happens if the creator doesn't like something the character does?

[hroþila]

The original character was not planned out. Rich said as much when people asked about Veldrina that he only knew he had to get them to the Godsmoot, and didn't have the how planned out, and that's why Veldrina fit. A regular vanilla cleric capable of matching Durkon would have been able to raise him back at the town.
Well, I did say "sketched". Anyway, I seriously doubt Rich would have come here to say "oh and that same divine caster was also going to join the Order later after Durkon left" if that's what he had planned before Veldrina came along.

[woweedd]

I haven't seen anyone bring this up, and I did a quick search for their names, but I haven't been around much -- so I apologize if I missed a major discussion somewhere.

Does anyone think that Not-Durkon and Belkar are about to leave the party for the rest of the "campaign" and be replaced with these two?

- They're fairly high level, of similar classes and capabilities.
- Favored Souls are easier to write around than Clerics; they are much weaker. I know Mr. Burlew only considers the mechanics a teensy bit, but that seems like a likely reason Veldrina was made a Favored Soul rather than a Cleric that was just too low level to cast resurrection.
- Mid-campaign character replacement is something that happens in long-running games. Again, the comic's not about D&D jokes anymore, but we still get them now and then.
- Not-Durkon's latest moves are anything but subtle, and I don't see him staying long-term at this point. Things will just look too suspicious for Roy as it stands.
- Veldrina would make Hayley no longer the only female member of the party.
- Wrecan's grumpy enough and Veldrina's intelligent-but-not-all-there personality would make for good dynamics with the rest of the party long-term.

The biggest reason that I'm not sure about it is that Wrecan is pretty similar to Roy in concept -- intelligent fighter -- but I get the impression that he's a bit older, so there's room for more differentiation in personality down the road.
None of those seem like particularly good reasons. In order;
- This is completely irrelevant. This story is character-focused.
- I doubt the thought has ever crossed Rich's mind.
- Yes, we've had the occasional D&D joke but I doubt we're going to have major plot developments for which the only justification is that that's the way it happens in D&D. Last time I checked. Rich doesn't use die rolls to determine the story either.
-Why would Durkon leave the Party? I doubt HPOH will last through the end of this book but i'm pretty sure he'll stay in the party throughout. After all, this seems o be shaping up to be "Durkon's Book' in the same way Book 5 was "Elan's Book". He's just started getting tons of character developments.
I'm not even touching the last two , mainly because I can't really argue against them. However, overall, I think the team dynamics of the OOTS are too well-solidified by this point to have any permanent replacements. I could see Veldrina and Wrecan becoming "temporary party members", so to speak, like Miko in the first half of Book 2 or Celia with Harley in Book 4 but presently, No way. Not to mention, while Vledrina was just slotted into an existing role, I doubt The Giant could have predicted Wrecan's untimely demise, may he rest in peace.

[Gift Jeraff]

I doubt it. One's a paid-for cameo and the other is a tribute.

[Onyavar]

Replacement characters for one/two of the order? Never. Durkon may be temporarily out of the group, but he will certainly be replaced by Hippo until he comes back.

Regarding Vel and Wre: I like them both, and hope they wil stay a while longer... but I doubt they will play a hugely more important role than, say, Bandana and Julio. Or Geoff and Ian. Or Kubota and Therkla. Or Thanh and Niu. Or Daigo and Kasumi. Or... (will I stop pointing out nicely characterized B-listener characters to the story and finish my post? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html) Oh, right.

At a certain point in the story, it is time to say goodbye. If we're lucky we might get one or two callbacks later.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think we may see them again, but I doubt that they will be joining the Order or be sticking with them after this part ends.

[Ebon_Drake]

I doubt Wrecan will be around long-term. I'm happy that Rich has given him a small role in the comic as a tribute, but I'd find it quite uncomfortable if he was then getting put through the kinds of emotional story arcs that the other characters go through. I think that would verge on being disrespectful and I expect a lot of other posters would feel the same way. I'm expecting him to last through the current plotline, get a decent goodbye scene and maybe have the odd cameo here and there.


And I highly doubt Rich is going to have someone else's character stick around as a member of the team. How much money would that creator get for their character? Does he refund the Kickstarter reward since he's now paying them for the character? What percentage of the profits from various merchandise do they get? What happens if the creator doesn't like something the character does?

I suspect a lot of that would depend on how exactly any contract behind the Kickstarter reward was worded. Presumably Rich would've had to take things like that into account anyway since it was clear from the start that the character would end up being featured in a for-profit book. If I was in Rich's position, I'd have been very clear that the backer was signing over all the rights to the character as part of the deal (or at least once it became clear that her role would be bigger than just a cameo). I'm not a lawyer though, I'd genuinely be interested to know what the legalities around that are.

[NerdyKris]

Given that the reward was for a walk on cameo, not to become a recurring character in the comic, regardless of how the contract was worded or the legalities, it would be extremely unethical for Rich to just take the character and make her a major part of the team, because that's not what the donor was agreeing to when they bought it. And accepting money for someone else to create a character for you instead of paying them for it is entering Marvel/DC levels of shenanigans that I would hope Rich is above.

For an example of what happens when you use a character past the point the creator thought you were going to, see Neil Gaiman's Angela, which he just got the rights to back from Mcfarlene.

[Ebon_Drake]

Oh, absolutely. I was thinking more about what Rich could do rather than what I think he would do. I'm not expecting him to start pulling Bob Kane-style shenanigans with Veldrina, just as I'm sure he'll be very sensitive in handling Wrecan's role. However, I'd have thought he's already had to consider questions around having to pay for her use etc so if he did decide to use her again at some point in the future, he should be clear on what the implications would be. If not, he probably should give it some thought - and that probably would drastically reduce her chances of becoming a recurring character.

[Lanrezac]

Deleted because Astral Fire said it first and better.