the Orrery - a Handbook to the Spheres of Power

[stack]

It was a big project, but I made a general handbook to the Spheres of Power (http://paizo.com/products/btpy96pr?Spheres-of-Power) system by Drop Dead Studios (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/). I hope to refine and expand it as time goes on. I will admit that my practical experience is not what I would like to be undertaking such a project, but I hope that others will chime in and correct me where I go astray.

LINK (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19KpjX40WqPy8cDqKxQuBwk9c73eMiwIXJXsI7IPF3Uk/edit)

[Mithril Leaf]

How does Insanity work in your book, because in mine it applies only to Confusion Charms.

When applying a confusion charm to a target, you may spend
an additional spell point to change this charm into an instan-
taneous effect. The charm has no duration and cannot be dis-
pelled. This cannot be removed except through the Restore
Mind and Body advanced Life talent or through a similar effect
such as a greater restoration spell.

[stack]

How does Insanity work in your book, because in mine it applies only to Confusion Charms.

D'oh! Will fix it. Thought that seemed wrong.

[Mithril Leaf]

D'oh! Will fix it. Thought that seemed wrong.

It would be somewhat too strong if you allowed it to apply to say, Enthrall. I might be able to toss together some info on Dipping, as it's a paradise of Dips.

Sorcerer gets a separate but still quite excellent +1 to CL for a specific Sphere from the Wizard and Incanter.

EDIT: Also spellcraft yourself up a free Life Restore for Fatigue as a full round action in order to get the most from the Overcharge Boon.

EDIT 2: On the other hand, you could Spellcraft yourself up an Alteration and Mind Spell, that you spend absolutely absurd amounts of Spell Points on that gives you permanent minions.

[Mehangel]

One thing that I appreciate with how you classified spheres is that you did not just apply color to it based on cost, or when comparing it to another sphere. Instead, you classified the talents while comparing them to other talents in the same sphere or general use (or atleast it appeared to be). I know that there have been some who feel that spheres able to be used at-will without concentration or expending spell points means that they are automatically 'more powerful' but I disagree, and I appreciate that you did not seem to encourage such thoughts outright. I also like how you gave classifications on spheres based on how much investment one should put into it and how much should be invested aswell, etc.

I apologize if I am not correlating my thoughts very cleanly. I cannot think straight at the moment.

[Endless Rain]

The link is broken, I can't access it.

[Mithril Leaf]

The link is broken, I can't access it.

Works fine for me, try this one (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19KpjX40WqPy8cDqKxQuBwk9c73eMiwIXJXsI7IPF3Uk/mobilebasic).

EDIT: You are also missing the Anthropomorphic Transformation. Fantastic for Necromancers as it gets your undead feats. Meh for everyone else.

[EldritchWeaver]

EDIT: You are also missing the Anthropomorphic Transformation. Fantastic for Necromancers as it gets your undead feats. Meh for everyone else.

Where is it written that having no intelligence score means no feats as well? I can't find it myself.

[Mithril Leaf]

Where is it written that having no intelligence score means no feats as well? I can't find it myself.


Most vermin, however, are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
It's mentioned there and every monster without an Int score in the bestiary only possesses bonus feats. Not sure where it's explicitly called out as I'm on mobile.

[stack]

Might be a good point for the ask me anything thread.

[Mithril Leaf]

I believe you are underestimating Ranged Summoning. There's nothing stopping you from applying it to all day companions.

Picture it this way:
You are ambushed at a party that your companion didn't fit in at. You go second or third in the turn order. Your Barbarian charges first. You then spawn your Quick Roguish Asura companion on the other side of the enemy and it gets a flanking full attack off with all it's arms.

[Ironsides]

I know you rated Summon Spirit blue for the guide but I do not think you realize all the things you can do with this powerful talent, Permanent Undeath and Expanded Necromancy/Empowered Reanimate. Here is a question I posted on DDS's message boards asking Adam Meyers about what I could do with these talents. (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/forum/#/20150502/summon-spirit-advanced-talent-and-pcs-4747447/)

Here is what I posted.

I am going to be playing a fairly deadly campaign soon and I have some sphere-related rules questions about bringing back dead party members at a low-ish level using necromancy. The Summon Spirit advanced talent says that I can summon a spirit (like a dead PC) and use their spirit to make an undead creature. I wonder if my other talents can be used to augment them in the following ways:

Use Empowered Reanimate to give them a +4 Enhancement to Str and Dex.
Can I give them the bloody skeleton template with Expanded Necromancy talent so they don’t get die permanently when they inevitably die (again)?
Can I use the desecrate from my Voidstick to give them +1 HP per hit dice.
Also could I (I probably wouldn't do this even if given the opportunity) raise them as a higher HD creature? It seems that if you do this you subtract 1 hit-dice from the creature base for every class level available. So A 10 HD Minotaur and a lvl 5 PC ends up being lvl 5 PC and 5 bloody skeleton templated Minotaur HD.



Am I looking at the rules correctly? Summon Spirit seems rather good to me at 5th level.


Here is Adam Meyer's reply.

You are reading things correctly, yes. We wanted to give people the option to really play with undead, if they so wanted to build in that direction.

[stack]

It would be somewhat too strong if you allowed it to apply to say, Enthrall. I might be able to toss together some info on Dipping, as it's a paradise of Dips.

Sorcerer gets a separate but still quite excellent +1 to CL for a specific Sphere from the Wizard and Incanter.

EDIT: Also spellcraft yourself up a free Life Restore for Fatigue as a full round action in order to get the most from the Overcharge Boon.

EDIT 2: On the other hand, you could Spellcraft yourself up an Alteration and Mind Spell, that you spend absolutely absurd amounts of Spell Points on that gives you permanent minions.
1. Absolutely insanity would be too powerful with other charms. I can't believe I missed the limiting bit.

2. Sorcerer's plus one would work in place of menhir savant druid's limit +1 CL and free up a level, as well as being more likely to be allowed. I will update. Three levels of geomancer would also net +2 CL if you were using nature sphere but prevent you from having room for specialization on top of forbidden lore, so I guess there are a few ways to get there.

3. Free restore would be great to spellcraft, if allowed. I can see many DMs balking at free restores for any casting time though, same with heals.

4. Yeah, there's a reason spellcrafting explicitly requires permission and approval. Permanent minions is high on the list.


I believe you are underestimating Ranged Summoning. There's nothing stopping you from applying it to all day companions.

Picture it this way:
You are ambushed at a party that your companion didn't fit in at. You go second or third in the turn order. Your Barbarian charges first. You then spawn your Quick Roguish Asura companion on the other side of the enemy and it gets a flanking full attack off with all it's arms.

Fair point. Though in any situation that you have your companion summoned, you would probably be better served with the warp sphere. I'll make a mention and think about the rating.


I know you rated Summon Spirit blue for the guide but I do not think you realize all the things you can do with this powerful talent, Permanent Undeath and Expanded Necromancy/Empowered Reanimate. Here is a question I posted on DDS's message boards asking Adam Meyers about what I could do with these talents. (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/forum/#/20150502/summon-spirit-advanced-talent-and-pcs-4747447/)


Huh, didn't consider undead party members. Interesting. Works better if you can get an undead that keeps class levels (juju zombies, for one), I think. Have to look into that one and give it a mention.

[stack]

Made most of the suggested updates, still need to review the summon spirit advanced talent. Had lots of helpful feedback on the doc itself and some good observations here. Keep it up!

May need to take a break from writing new handbooks for a bit, three in a row was a fair bit of writing and I'm getting busier with other stuff. May homebrew some spheres stuff as well.

[Lirya]

1) Try spellcrafting Steal Time onto your favorite Destruction Sphere effect. This basically adds a very cheap Dazing Spell effect and a Quicken Spell effect, as once you get 3+ targets chances are at least one of them will fail the will save. (You spend a full-round action and 3 spell points to cast a Temporal Stoneball, at least one of them fails the will save vs. daze, so you regain a standard action you can use to cast a 2nd destruction effect. For comparison, a quickened Stoneball costs 6 spell points.)
Also note that the Temporal Stoneball allows you to daze pretty much anything that can fail a will save, as almost no creatures are immune to daze, it is SR:No, and it allows for basically no immunities. Pair with a Temporal Forceball to murder incorporeal and ethereal targets as well.

Also, spellcraft an AoE talent (such as Group Time or Group Charm) onto long term buffs that your whole party might want such as various Aegis or Meld effects. This will save huge amounts of spell points.

2) You rate Counterspell, Greater too low. This is basically the Sphere version of Mage's Disjunction (rated as a blue 9th level wizard spell). You unfortunately lose the ability to destroy spells without rolling, but instead you get to suppress magical items without worrying about your target having a buff Will save, or that the target rolls a natural 1 on the save of items you really want to loot. Very few magic items that matter are going to have a CL above 15, and important items such as Ability Score Boosts will typically have a CL of 12 (giving MSD of 23 to 26), while you use your MSB +2 (from Counterspell Mastery). The all or nothing approach hurts you a bit, but you will have a 60% or better (likely 85% at 20th level) chance of shutting down ALL enemy magic items. Considering the outsiders and dragons are likely to be kitted out with magical loot, this can be a huge and reliable debuff. Against an NPC like a high level antipaladn, you might be debuffing his hit rate by -9 (+5 weapon, +6 enhancement to strength, +1 competence), and his saves by -10 (+5 cloak of resistance, +6 enhancement to charisma, +1 luck, +1 competence), and his AC by -17 (+5 armor, +5 deflection, +5 natural, +1 luck, +1 insight) as well as removing all the magical toys he needs to compete in a high level environment.

In addition, Counterspell, Greater allows you to dispel nasty Midnight or Climate effects without locating the center of the spell.

3) You rate the Obstruction Aegis too low. DR X/- where x = CL/2 is amazing, and the limit of 10 x CL damage absorbed is basically irrelevant. There is a reason Invulnerable Rager is considered the default barbarian archetype, and spells like Defending Bone is considered a top choice for Inquisitor. Communal Stoneskin is rated green in the wizard guide, and a spellcrafted AoE Obstruction Aegis has no expensive component, cannot be overcome, has a longer duration, and while the DR starts out lower (likely DR 5/- instead of DR 10/adamantine) at 9th level, it will likely reach DR 10/- around 16th level (+4 staff, or +3 staff and Ioun Stone) and cap out at DR 13/- at 20th level (+5 staff and Ioun Stone). If you choose to take Protection talents, you want Obstruction.

4) Potent Alteration exists so you can apply effects such as Change Material and Forge to animated objects. The problem is, while the talent specifically calls out that this allows you to affect golems, it still might not work against most golems using RAW as they tend to have Spell Immunity and I haven't been able to find anything saying (some) creation talents are SR:No. As a GM though, I would certainly allow a creation specialist to turn a Mithral Golem into cloth or paper, or whatever if it fails its fortitude save. It is one of the weaker Creation talents, but saying repairing magic items and sundering stuff is bad and ignoring the fact that it allows you to apply change material and forge to animated objects is doing the talent a disservice.

5) You mention that you can spellcraft effects onto long duration spheres like Aegis to increase their duration. This is only partially true, as under spellcrating it says the following.

Adjusting Durations: If your base ability has a duration of concentration and you are adding abilities with a duration of 1 minute per caster level or longer, reduce the spell’s cost by 1 spell point. If your base ability has a duration of 10 minutes per caster level or longer and you are adding abilities with a duration of 1 round per caster level or shorter (including concentration), increase the spell’s cost by 1 spell point and decrease the spell’s duration by one step (1 hour per caster level becomes 10 minutes per caster level, 10 minutes per caster level becomes 1 minute per caster level).
So if you spellcraft, say Haste, onto an Aegis effect the duration would be reduced to 10 minutes per caster level. Still awesome and generally enough to last the whole dungeon, but it needs to be mentioned.

6) In your Thaumaturge Guide you mention dipping cross-blooded sorcerer during the comparison against elementalist. Note that cross-blooded sorcerer is not compatible with sphere sorcerer, due to cross-blooded sorcerer reducing spells known while sphere sorcerer replaces spellcasting (and thus spells known). A dip in sorcerer for the orc-bloodline arcana is still easily worth it for anyone with a focus on destruction.

[EldritchWeaver]

Great advice here!


6) In your Thaumaturge Guide you mention dipping cross-blooded sorcerer during the comparison against elementalist. Note that cross-blooded sorcerer is not compatible with sphere sorcerer, due to cross-blooded sorcerer reducing spells known while sphere sorcerer replaces spellcasting (and thus spells known). A dip in sorcerer for the orc-bloodline arcana is still easily worth it for anyone with a focus on destruction.

That sounds like as if the compatibility issue can be solved. "Spells known" translates into "magic talents known". So instead having 20 talents over 20 levels, one could say, a sphere sorcerer has only 15 talents. 10 seems too low, especially as they are fixed (compared to the sphere arcanist).

[stack]

1) Try spellcrafting Steal Time onto your favorite Destruction Sphere effect. This basically adds a very cheap Dazing Spell effect and a Quicken Spell effect, as once you get 3+ targets chances are at least one of them will fail the will save. (You spend a full-round action and 3 spell points to cast a Temporal Stoneball, at least one of them fails the will save vs. daze, so you regain a standard action you can use to cast a 2nd destruction effect. For comparison, a quickened Stoneball costs 6 spell points.)
Also note that the Temporal Stoneball allows you to daze pretty much anything that can fail a will save, as almost no creatures are immune to daze, it is SR:No, and it allows for basically no immunities. Pair with a Temporal Forceball to murder incorporeal and ethereal targets as well.

Also, spellcraft an AoE talent (such as Group Time or Group Charm) onto long term buffs that your whole party might want such as various Aegis or Meld effects. This will save huge amounts of spell points.

2) You rate Counterspell, Greater too low. This is basically the Sphere version of Mage's Disjunction (rated as a blue 9th level wizard spell). You unfortunately lose the ability to destroy spells without rolling, but instead you get to suppress magical items without worrying about your target having a buff Will save, or that the target rolls a natural 1 on the save of items you really want to loot. Very few magic items that matter are going to have a CL above 15, and important items such as Ability Score Boosts will typically have a CL of 12 (giving MSD of 23 to 26), while you use your MSB +2 (from Counterspell Mastery). The all or nothing approach hurts you a bit, but you will have a 60% or better (likely 85% at 20th level) chance of shutting down ALL enemy magic items. Considering the outsiders and dragons are likely to be kitted out with magical loot, this can be a huge and reliable debuff. Against an NPC like a high level antipaladn, you might be debuffing his hit rate by -9 (+5 weapon, +6 enhancement to strength, +1 competence), and his saves by -10 (+5 cloak of resistance, +6 enhancement to charisma, +1 luck, +1 competence), and his AC by -17 (+5 armor, +5 deflection, +5 natural, +1 luck, +1 insight) as well as removing all the magical toys he needs to compete in a high level environment.

In addition, Counterspell, Greater allows you to dispel nasty Midnight or Climate effects without locating the center of the spell.

3) You rate the Obstruction Aegis too low. DR X/- where x = CL/2 is amazing, and the limit of 10 x CL damage absorbed is basically irrelevant. There is a reason Invulnerable Rager is considered the default barbarian archetype, and spells like Defending Bone is considered a top choice for Inquisitor. Communal Stoneskin is rated green in the wizard guide, and a spellcrafted AoE Obstruction Aegis has no expensive component, cannot be overcome, has a longer duration, and while the DR starts out lower (likely DR 5/- instead of DR 10/adamantine) at 9th level, it will likely reach DR 10/- around 16th level (+4 staff, or +3 staff and Ioun Stone) and cap out at DR 13/- at 20th level (+5 staff and Ioun Stone). If you choose to take Protection talents, you want Obstruction.

4) Potent Alteration exists so you can apply effects such as Change Material and Forge to animated objects. The problem is, while the talent specifically calls out that this allows you to affect golems, it still might not work against most golems using RAW as they tend to have Spell Immunity and I haven't been able to find anything saying (some) creation talents are SR:No. As a GM though, I would certainly allow a creation specialist to turn a Mithral Golem into cloth or paper, or whatever if it fails its fortitude save. It is one of the weaker Creation talents, but saying repairing magic items and sundering stuff is bad and ignoring the fact that it allows you to apply change material and forge to animated objects is doing the talent a disservice.

5) You mention that you can spellcraft effects onto long duration spheres like Aegis to increase their duration. This is only partially true, as under spellcrating it says the following.

So if you spellcraft, say Haste, onto an Aegis effect the duration would be reduced to 10 minutes per caster level. Still awesome and generally enough to last the whole dungeon, but it needs to be mentioned.

6) In your Thaumaturge Guide you mention dipping cross-blooded sorcerer during the comparison against elementalist. Note that cross-blooded sorcerer is not compatible with sphere sorcerer, due to cross-blooded sorcerer reducing spells known while sphere sorcerer replaces spellcasting (and thus spells known). A dip in sorcerer for the orc-bloodline arcana is still easily worth it for anyone with a focus on destruction.

1. I had hoped to eventually expand the spellcrafting section. Excellent suggestions.

2. Fair points, I'll have to look at that one again. I don't ever really play at high levels, which I am sure shows at times.

3. I suppose I was thinking too much about PC builds that make big damaging attacks rather than the many monsters that have numerous smaller natural attacks. Should have known better. A thaumaturge can hit DR 10/- at level 10, since getting to CL 20 at that point is possible.

4. I'll look at it again. Changing an animated object to adamantine seems like good spellcrafting material. Uses against golems is limited, even without the rules issue. How many do you fight in a normal campaign? Though changing them to paper would be pretty funny.

5. Good catch. I thought that was a little too easy.

6. Been awhile since I checked the archetype, should have reviewed it again before putting that up after it was suggested.

Great feedback, thanks.

[Lirya]

4. I'll look at it again. Changing an animated object to adamantine seems like good spellcrafting material. Uses against golems is limited, even without the rules issue. How many do you fight in a normal campaign? Though changing them to paper would be pretty funny.

Potent Alteration is orange at best, and might very well still be red. But changing an ally's magic weapon into mithral (silver) or cold iron can also be nice if there is a DR or regeneration issue. You can't change stuff into adamantine as you are never allowed to affect adamantine with the creation sphere. I just want combining it with change material and using it against animated objects to be mentioned as that strikes me the best use. You can also combine it with Forge to reforge magic items of the wrong type into something your fighter can use. So if you find a +X magical axe of awesome, but your fighter uses swords. Then you can reforge the magic item into a sword. Basically, the talent has very niche applications. But assuming you already have a lot of alter talents to combine it with, there will be multiple niche applications so some of them might show up allowing you to use the talent to perform awesome deeds. The player just needs to be creative which is a key requirement for the whole sphere really.

[stack]

Well stated. I may just have to quote you directly on that. Permission?

[Lirya]

Well stated. I may just have to quote you directly on that. Permission?

Feel free.

[stack]

I thought adamantine was on the list, but it isn't. Huh.

Quote added to guide. Haven't changed the rating yet. Not sure if forge let's you make weapons without the exquisite detail talent. Armor is specifically barred, but weapons tend to be of simpler geometry.

[Lirya]

My understanding is you need Fabricate to use Forge to create anything that the GM would call for a craft check to make. Exquisite Detail doesn't automatically add to Forge, but if you have Fabricate then you may want to spellcraft Exquisite Detail onto it as well for the huge bonus to craft checks. So yes, you would need Fabricate + Potent Alteration to reforge magical armor and weapons.

I played around a bit with an Incanter with a lot of creation talents, and figured out I could create about a fully kitted out War Galley out of nothing after about half a day of work (taking 10 on my craft Ships, Sails, etc. for a result of 55, assuming I have spellcrafted Exquisite Detail onto Fabricate). Your size limitation is large enough to work with a colossal object, but Fabricate calls out that you spend 1 round per 10 cubic feet, so it takes some time to finish the whole ship.

[stack]

I would give the ship wings rather than sails so you can then turn it into a permanent animated airship using enhancement. :smallcool:

[Lirya]

Bestow Life :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Create Demiplane + Bestow Life = Playing God

[Lirya]

I just noticed, you have forgotten to mention one of the best Fate Sphere talents, Freedom. It gives Freedom of Movement with all the usual benefits for concentration, or 1 round/CL if you spend a spell point. Spellcraft this onto your Aegis or other 1 hour per CL buff with an AoE talent to give your party Freedom of Movement for 10 min./CL.

[stack]

I just noticed, you have forgotten to mention one of the best Fate Sphere talents, Freedom. It gives Freedom of Movement with all the usual benefits for concentration, or 1 round/CL if you spend a spell point. Spellcraft this onto your Aegis or other 1 hour per CL buff with an AoE talent to give your party Freedom of Movement for 10 min./CL.

Thought I had that one...goes on the fix list then. Thanks. Definitely a good one to have.

[Tulya]

Am I missing something on Warrior of Holy Light, or does their pseudo-smite eat two spell points and two standard actions? One standard to make a weapon glow, one standard and one spell point to make it glow brightly, and one spellpoint to gain the benefits of smite.

The only alternative seems to be to run around with a gleaming beacon constantly, moving at half speed so that you can concentrate each round.

(Not that Utterdark Champion smite is per se better, but at least Darkness has much more interesting rider effects.)

[stack]

Am I missing something on Warrior of Holy Light, or does their pseudo-smite eat two spell points and two standard actions? One standard to make a weapon glow, one standard and one spell point to make it glow brightly, and one spellpoint to gain the benefits of smite.

The only alternative seems to be to run around with a gleaming beacon constantly, moving at half speed so that you can concentrate each round.

(Not that Utterdark Champion smite is per se better, but at least Darkness has much more interesting rider effects.)

The base glow lasts for minutes per level, so is easy to keep up, though maybe not so good for stealth. To not require concentration on the glowing brightly does take a spell point. No extra action needed for the smite, but yes, if starting from nothing you need two standards and two spell points to smite without concentration, which is problematic, though most of the time I expect you to have the glow up and running so it's only one standard and two SP. compared to smite evil's swift this is annoying, but getting more SP is easier than getting more smites (outside of oath of vengeance anyhow). Group smiting later in is nifty though.

Smite evil is vastly superior for a single target, but luminous smite is much better against groups.

[stack]

Traits from the organization section of the main book are now added. They had previously been overlooked.

Need to buy Worlds of Power and add its materials, haven't gotten around to it yet.

[stack]

Alternate classes, feats, destruction talents, and ki powers from Worlds of Power (http://shop.d20pfsrd.com/collections/drop-dead-studios/products/worlds-of-power) are up. I believe this makes me currant with all releases to date.

[Mithril Leaf]

Fun build time!

Incanter 20 with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane).
You spend every single Incanter point on druid domains:
Crocodile, Eagle, Frog, Monkey, and Serpent.
All of those familiars take the Sage and Figment Archetypes.
You get 5 familiars with int equal to twice your level +3, that get their own skill points which can be double you level as the max rank, plus they get 3 evolutions. Also they can't die.
Now you take Alteration and they all get glorious humanoid forms for a party in a can.

[stack]

Hilarious as a downtime build anyway. Their HP will be abysmal, but you certainly have skills covered. Haven't double checked the details, but it sounds amusing. Have to toss it in when I get around to a builds section. Need a boring work trip to get the time.

[Mithril Leaf]

Hilarious as a downtime build anyway. Their HP will be abysmal, but you certainly have skills covered. Haven't double checked the details, but it sounds amusing. Have to toss it in when I get around to a builds section. Need a boring work trip to get the time.

Although if you go for Con based caster and max out your HP at every level it won't be too horrible. One of the nice ones is the gloriously sneaky pet. +8 from Evolution, +12 from Diminutive Size (or only +8 from tiny), double your level in pure ranks, and a potentially huge Dex.

[stack]

Makes a great scout, at least until special senses become common since it can't take the feats to avoid them. 100' range limit as well.

[Ironsides]

I have gotten the opportunity to play a Telekinetic Warrior recently and I have some opinions on some of the Telekinesis talents and when you should take them. To be effective at telekinesis requires a ton of talents in order for you to be effective at what you do and you may be using most of your feats on Extra Talent to get to do what you want and end up being amazingly feat starved. This little mini-guide is geared towards people who are making Telekinesis the focus of their build.

Dancing Weapon – You need this fairly soon in your career if you can to be able to use the critical range and damage dice of your weapon instead of what it counts as its bludgeon size.

Divided Mind – This will not be a feasible way of attacking things until later in your career (levels 5+). Your size will be limited and the size of the objects you are lifting cannot exceed maximum telekinetic size. This is a good talent but you need to be able to lift medium sized objects or larger to get the most bang for your buck taking this talent earlier than that may make you feel like you wasted a talent you could have spent elsewhere.

Finesse – I consider this a more of a roleplaying talent and it is not very useful while in combat. I took it early because I wanted to do things like playing cards while across the room or doing camp chores while relaxing in my hammock. If your build is very talent starved you can ignore this talent until later.

Flair – This is good to get when you are using Dancing Weapon to do attack and have the free feats to make use of this talent. The only question is whether ranged feats or melee feats should be your priority. I would personally lean more towards melee feats and to the TWF even though it is feat intensive.

Flight – This talent is awesome when you can lift yourself. Until you can lift yourself you should pass on this talent though. I should say that you can still fly yourself using sustained force and that this flight isn’t absolutely necessary.

Greater Speed – I would give this talent a better rating than green because this talent gives a larger attack range for your bludgeons. This is the difference between your bludgeon having a speed of 20 ft + 5 ft per 5 levels to 30 ft + 5 ft per 2 levels. This increase in speed can mean the difference between attacking something once to attacking something twice if you have the Easy Focus boon which you need if you are diving into Telekinesis Sphere.

Increased Range – This changes your sphere of influence from 20 ft + 5 ft per 5 levels to 100 ft + 10 ft per caster level. This means you can pick up a fallen weapon nearby the wizard and attack him with it without needing to see the whites of his eyes. Most of the time I was using things in the environment to attack with instead of my weapon and doing a fair bit of damage. However taking Increased Range a second time to get 400 ft + 40 ft per caster level is not as useful, but I love the idea of attacking someone from such a great distance that you need binoculars to see the action.

Powerful Telekinesis – This is almost a talent tax since the object sizes you can lift in your early career start off so small. If you want you character to be able to fly as soon as possible then you need to be small sized and level 3 is the earliest you can do this.

Quick Catch – I can see taking this if you want to use Telekinetic Push as an immediate action often but otherwise I don’t see the appeal. Unless your DM is metagaming or you are obviously moving stuff around you are not an obvious target to go after. Your abilities mean that you can stay VERY far away from combat so you are not the best person to send a projectile after.

Steal – I do not think that this is a good talent to go for. Your target has 2 opportunities to resist your maneuver. If stealing things becomes the focus of your build I can see taking this but the Telekinesis Sphere is already feat and talent starved as is. Also if you want to use Sleight of Hand against someone you need Finesse talent.

Telekinetic Maneuver – Like the Steal talent you need to optimize this in order to be good at it. Your target has 2 chances to shake off what you are doing and making your efforts wasted.

Telekinetic Push – This can be worth the investment if you focusing on Dancing Weapons and Bludgeons as your main form of attack. If you like this talent consider taking Quick Catch to use this an immediate action for a spell point.

Drawbacks and Boons

You need to take 2 drawbacks so you can get the Easy Focus boon. Easy focus means you can attack with a bludgeon twice in a single turn by using your standard action to bludgeon and then using your move action to bludgeon it again.

You also do not NEED to have more than 2 drawbacks to get more spell points because the Telekinesis Sphere does not require regular expenditures of spell points like other sphere such as the Creation Sphere. Sustained Force and Quick Catch are the only two things in the Telekinesis sphere that you need to spend spell points on.

[stack]

Nice work, thanks for the mini-guide. Not sure that telekinesis is that much more talent starved than other spheres (I'm looking at you, illusion), since a TK warrior can get dancing weapon, powerful telekinesis, and one othe talent at level 1, leaving a reasonable progression to grab the others as you level.

Look out for the TK handbook coming in the next couple months for more material that will interest you. It looks like good stuff from my read of the closed playtest.

[stack]

Feats, sphere-class archetypes, and talents added from the Geomancer's Handbook. (http://shop.d20pfsrd.com/products/the-geomancers-handbook)

Paizo-class archetypes not up. I'll get to it sometime.

Telekinetic Handbook (http://shop.d20pfsrd.com/products/the-telekinetics-handbook)is up next.

[Flesh_Engine]

Maybe fix up the Mind sphere Insanity advanced talent references, it only works for Confusion, barring Spellcrafting, which may or may not be allowed.

Edit;

Maybe add a paragraph on multiclassing, mentioning that you can choose your casting stat.

[stack]

Maybe fix up the Mind sphere Insanity advanced talent references, it only works for Confusion, barring Spellcrafting, which may or may not be allowed.

Edit;

Maybe add a paragraph on multiclassing, mentioning that you can choose your casting stat.

Thought I fixed insanity ages ago...Yup, I did. Are you looking at an old version somehow? Unless you mean I should suggest spellcrafting insanity onto other charms...awesome, if your DM is lenient (or crazy), I would be extra clear about what you are trying to do though.

Under classes and archetypes it mentions briefly that you can dip to change casting stats.

[EldritchWeaver]

Maybe add a paragraph on multiclassing, mentioning that you can choose your casting stat.


Under classes and archetypes it mentions briefly that you can dip to change casting stats.

The Unorthodox Casting (Magic) trait also allows to switch the casting stat. While you added this trait in your guide, it should be mentioned at this place as well.

[stack]

The Unorthodox Casting (Magic) trait also allows to switch the casting stat. While you added this trait in your guide, it should be mentioned at this place as well.

Yes, it should. Will add when I get a chance. It's a big guide, hard to keep track.

I never did builds, did I? Should do that sometime.

[Tulya]

The Eliciter seems really disappointing. They're a middle caster with a focus on an extremely narrow sphere with some early talent taxes. Their other class features are okay, but mostly nothing to write home about.

The real problem is that you fare so much better as a Mind-specialist Incanter. You have plenty of talents, full caster level on other spheres for when you branch out, and domain and bloodline abilities much less redundant than Hypnotism/Emotion. Enchanting Smile and the Gnome FCB replicate most of Persuasive, and you can just splash a single level of Eliciter to get the rest of the save DC bonus.

The only thing the Eliciter seems to excel at is social skills. You get a better class skill list, 4 base skill points per level, and rather large bonuses to social skill checks from class features, the Hypnotist archetype, and FCBs.

[EldritchWeaver]

You're missing that the Eliciter has medium BAB, a d8 and some basic weapon and armor proficiencies. So I think they are meant to be more combat involved as well.

[stack]

You're missing that the Eliciter has medium BAB, a d8 and some basic weapon and armor proficiencies. So I think they are meant to be more combat involved as well.

They can be, but I'm not sure what that build would look like in practice, since there is little synergy there. If they got to channel emotions through a melee attack (not just unarmed strikes with a feat) there might be something. I'm going to go drop a note in the mind handbook about this concept.

Anyhow, base eliciter is a specialist. I think the skill and save bonuses would be great in a social/intrigue game, enough that they would have a niche. Emotions give them staying power as well, but I agree that they are often redundant rather than synergistic. I haven't spent the time on te eliciter I have with the elementalist or thaumaturge, so I could be missing something though.

[stack]

Telekinetic's handbook was added quite awhile ago.

Destroyer's handbook is partially up, somewht hindered by the fact that I cannot in good conscience rate what I wrote.

Players Guide to Skybourne (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/173399/The-Players-Guide-to-Skybourne?term=skybour) is next.

[EldritchWeaver]

Players Guide to Skybourne (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/173399/The-Players-Guide-to-Skybourne?term=skybour) is next.

Off the top of my head, I can't remember any particular stuff for Spherecasters. Do I misremember?

[Mehangel]

Off the top of my head, I can't remember any particular stuff for Spherecasters. Do I misremember?

There were several casting traditions and traits that affected spherecasters. In addition, it introduced a single "racial" sphere.

[stack]

There were several casting traditions and traits that affected spherecasters. In addition, it introduced a single "racial" sphere.

Also a few archetypes. Not many. The new drawbacks, boons, and the racial sphere are the main points, though it's a pretty small sphere.

[bondoid]

Concerning using summon spirit, i don't believe greater undead is necessary, unless you wanted to use a more unusual base than a skeleton or zombie. You create a mindless Animated Object or Undead, Summon Spirit gives it intelligence, by giving it a soul. Adam Meyers's quote on the forum seems to confirm this line of though. Requiring greater undead, would make it much worse than the animate object path and be kind of silly. You create a intelligent undead...only to replace its intelligence with a different one? What happens to the intelligent undeads soul.

The purpose of the ability is to place a soul into a container that doesn't have one.

[stack]

Concerning using summon spirit, i don't believe greater undead is necessary, unless you wanted to use a more unusual base than a skeleton or zombie. You create a mindless Animated Object or Undead, Summon Spirit gives it intelligence, by giving it a soul. Adam Meyers's quote on the forum seems to confirm this line of though. Requiring greater undead, would make it much worse than the animate object path and be kind of silly. You create a intelligent undead...only to replace its intelligence with a different one? What happens to the intelligent undeads soul.

The purpose of the ability is to place a soul into a container that doesn't have one.

The note in that regard was for making an undead that keeps class levels in an attempt to keep from having to regain levels lost in the process. The way I read the power, sticking your buddy in a 1 HD skeleton makes him a 1 HD undead and is always stuck with that 1 HD. I could be wrong about this understanding. Was there a clarification in the ask me anything that I missed integrating?

[bondoid]

If you look at what Ironsides posted, (What Adam replied was correct), Ironsides asked if he could raise a bloody skeleton with summon spirit as a component to effectively resurrect a pc. The answer was yes. Bloody Skeletons are mindless undead, and therefore could never have or gain class levels. But summon spirit states that "The object or undead creature gains the mental attributes, personality, memories, etc. of the selected spirit, but otherwise is normal for its new creature type."

It then goes on to say (with errata)

"At the GM’s discretion, a spirit bound to a permanent animated object or undead creature may recover or gain class levels over time, but the spirit loses at least 1 level per CR of its new form."


Perhaps I am still misunderstanding this talent. This is certainly a very powerful understanding of how it works if it is indeed correct. I'll see if I can get Adam to clarify it in the other thread.

[bondoid]

Oh, and btw, your guide is excellent, but the Destroyer's Handbook was incredible. I felt that destruction was perhaps the least inspired of the original Spheres, but your additions has completely changed my opinion!

[stack]

Oh, and btw, your guide is excellent, but the Destroyer's Handbook was incredible. I felt that destruction was perhaps the least inspired of the original Spheres, but your additions has completely changed my opinion!

Thanks! I spend a lot of time figuring out how to leverage destruction before the freelancer project began. I'm currently working on alteration, hope it meets expectations.

As for summon spirit, I need to go look at the previous questions and answers and check the errata myself. I though the 'lose at least one level' bit was to prevent dropping allies into hugely powerful undead and getting all their class levels back, but the monster PC guidelines already would say something about that so I may be way off.

[stack]

Divination is next up, including mentions for every alternate divination. That won't take any time, I'm certain. Still some feats from destruction that aren't fully rated.

[Flesh_Engine]

Regarding the "Portal" (and to a lesser extent the "Create Demiplane") talent(s), you could conceivably use these offensively by opening the portal below a waterline of a nearby lake or sea and appearing above the center of a town or flooding a dungeon.

You could use the demiplane to store liquid in much the same way.

Applications are rather entertaining to think about if you combine Weather to create vast amounts of water and/or Earth geomancy to shape the terrain to accomodate it for later use. The Creation sphere opens up limitless tactics, if creating lava if possible or just to create an easy way of reaching the bottom of a large lake.

In fairness the gm could ask that you pick up the teleport object talent for this to work though.

[Mithril Leaf]

Combine the Overcharge boon with Cord of Stubborn Resolve (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cord-of-stubborn-resolve) and you get +2 on everything for nearly free.

[Eldaran]

The errata says this "Pg. 161: The Overcharge boon should state: “Creatures immune to fatigue cannot benefit from this boon.”" So your trick probably falls under that umbrella, at least any reasonable DM would interpret so.

[Mithril Leaf]

The errata says this "Pg. 161: The Overcharge boon should state: “Creatures immune to fatigue cannot benefit from this boon.”" So your trick probably falls under that umbrella, at least any reasonable DM would interpret so.

It very explicitly does not make you fatigue immune. It even states in the item that you may still become fatigued.

[Eldaran]

It very explicitly does not make you fatigue immune. It even states in the item that you may still become fatigued.

Did you not even read my second sentence? Yes, you're totally correct that it works by strict RAW, but especially for a system like Spheres that is intentionally open with the assumption of reasonable oversight (such as for spellcrafting, item creation, and advanced talents), it clearly goes against RAI. Look at it this way, any effect that makes you fatigued does not make you fatigued. That's damn near immunity to me.

[EldritchWeaver]

Any effect which would cause the wearer to become fatigued deals an additional 1d6 points of nonlethal damage instead.

This doesn't sound to me that the Cord provides the overcharge casting for free. You still accumulate damage. At best this item provides more uses per day, which is ok in my book.

[stack]

Considering how many uses can be fixed with a single spell point via life and revitalize, I would call it a lot of uses per day.

Frankly, I would be tempted to ban that item in general even without the overcharge abuse. Turning a notable status effect into trivial nonlethal damage is a pretty big deal, especially since it's written in a way to get around things with immunity clauses. It's nice for a barbarian prior to tireless rage, but I think the effects are too far reaching otherwise, especially in SoP were it breaks overcharge and kills the basic ghost strike.

[Mithril Leaf]

Hey so I finally and just noticed that you confused the placement of the note here:

Addictive Casting – make a fort save every time you use a spell point, with an increasing DC or gain an addiction. This one counts as two drawbacks, but it is really nasty. Could be workable if you have lots of downtime and few encounters per day, but I count it mostly as NPC or word-building material.
Draining Casting – Take unhealable non-lethal damage every time to use a sphere ability. It works as the basis for a blood-mage type character combined with the Fortified Casting boon. Great if all you do is summon conjuration companions or raise a few undead each morning, but anyone that needs to cast almost every round (blasters, debuffers, etc) will hate it. Note that you can’t get any worse once you hit severe (-2 str, Dex, Con, Wis, & Casting Stat), so if you can live with that(high point buy maybe?) then you don’t really care and may as well take it.
Addictive Casting is the one with the Severe Addiction Effect, not Draining.

Also I'm making a sample build, one that will probably be farily highly optimized. I'm assuming yes to Advanced Magic, no to Spellcrafting and Incantations due to Advanced Talents having real rules written down.

EDIT: Also I'm not sure, but my Geomancer's Handbook says that Formulae Geomancing says that you can make Extracts of half your caster level, and you have it marked down as a third.

EDIT 2: Also I think you're terribly underrating Deathful Magic. If you have a source of cheap and good out of Combat Healing, you can get +2 whenever you want really. 5k on some Boots of the Earth and you start each day with everything at +2 CL. At the very least it's way more consistent and reliable for out of combat stuff than Empowered Abilities. HP is much easier to recover than SP.

[stack]

Do you have the updated geomancer's? I ice mine is current and says CL three times extract level. Look and see if the nature ally advanced talent is list as spirit or geomancing. Newer version fixed that to spirit.

I'll fix the text.

Asctetically, I really don't like beating down you casting to improve his buff routine, but it does work well if you have easy healing. Which you should in most campaigns after the early levels. Only helps if it gets you to a scarf break or you really need the extra couple hours though. I don't think it was meant to be a boon for hr/level buffs, but it does seem to work that way.

[EldritchWeaver]

Do you have the updated geomancer's? I ice mine is current and says CL three times extract level. Look and see if the nature ally advanced talent is list as spirit or geomancing. Newer version fixed that to spirit.

I'll fix the text.

Asctetically, I really don't like beating down you casting to improve his buff routine, but it does work well if you have easy healing. Which you should in most campaigns after the early levels. Only helps if it gets you to a scarf break or you really need the extra couple hours though. I don't think it was meant to be a boon for hr/level buffs, but it does seem to work that way.

I have the feeling that the marked passages are a bit scrambled.:smallconfused:

[stack]

I have the feeling that the marked passages are a bit scrambled.:smallconfused:

Phone post first thing in the morning!

I believe my copy of geomancer's is current.

I don't think beating down your caster to improve his buff routine is intended.

The bonus helps if it gets you to a scaling break.

I may leave those instead of editing the post as it is funny.

[Mithril Leaf]

Is the Enhancer's Handbook actually out, because if so you might want to add those abilities in.

Also as far as dipping goes:
Wizard gets 3 talents at level 1
Incanter gets 3 talents and two domains or a bloodline power at level 1
Sorcerer gets 2 talents or one and a bloodline arcana
Druid gets 2 talents
Cleric gets 2 talents (one life or death)
Witch gets 2 talents
Fey Adept gets 2 talents (one illusion)
Oracle gets 2 (one telekinesis)
Everyone else gets one or fewer at level one.

[stack]

Enhancer's has been out for a little bit. I have it, just haven't had time to add it.

[Mithril Leaf]

Enhancer's has been out for a little bit. I have it, just haven't had time to add it.

No worries, just checking to see if it was on the to-do. There's some pretty good stuff in there, especially the Embodiment of Magic thing that gives you a really nice temporary or longer term ally. Might only be friendly, but persuading them to hang out and give you some out of combat buffs could be really nice.

EDIT: Also Fluid is incredibly important for bringing minions into dungeons.

[Daishain]

For some reason this guide has been put in the Owner's trash file. Given that this is the only even close to extensive spheres of power guide I know of, I chose to preserve a copy.

I suggest that someone more adept with the system than I keep try to keep things up and continue the good work.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SR9qnmvwStf0TayuDd7oeszVYSdKIPqJsZUzb2RCP4U/edit?usp=sharing

[stack]

It was woefully out of date and I had no intention of trying to update it with all the handbooks and the USoP changes. If someone wants to do something with it, go for it.